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Netizens-Digest Volume 1 Number 437
Netizens-Digest Thursday, March 20 2003 Volume 01 : Number 437
Netizens Association Discussion List Digest
In this issue:
Re: [netz] Internet in Iraq: Better than Bombs
Re: [netz] PLEASE KEEP THE LIST ALIVE
Re: [netz] Internet in Iraq: Better than Bombs
Re: [netz] Free speech (was NETIZENS...)
Re: [netz] Free speech (was NETIZENS...)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:32:45 EST
From: AGENTKUENSTLER@aol.com
Subject: Re: [netz] Internet in Iraq: Better than Bombs
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In a message dated 3/19/03 10:22:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrh@ais.org
writes:
> Hi,
>
> I thought this article about the Internet in Iraq from Radio Netherlands
> would interest readers of this list. My heart goes out to all the Iraqi
> people and to those military personnel whose lives will be shattered
> because the military of the US and its allies have been thrown against
> Iraq. Those who want democracy anywhere might help that process by helping
> spread the Internet to those places. Bombs and invasions from my point of
> view can not spread democracy.
>
> Take care.
>
> Jay
>
Interesting, Jay. This illustration of the Iraqi online reality is helpful.
Please stay safe.
Larry
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 3/19/03 10:22:21 PM Eastern Standar=
d Time, jrh@ais.org writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hi,<BR>
<BR>
I thought this article about the Internet in Iraq from Radio Netherlands<BR>
would interest readers of this list. My heart goes out to all the Iraqi<BR>
people and to those military personnel whose lives will be shattered<BR>
because the military of the US and its allies have been thrown against<BR>
Iraq. Those who want democracy anywhere might help that process by helping<B=
R>
spread the Internet to those places. Bombs and invasions from my point of <B=
R>
view can not spread democracy.<BR>
<BR>
Take care.<BR>
<BR>
Jay<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Interesting, Jay. This illustration of the Iraqi online reality is hel=
pful.<BR>
<BR>
Please stay safe.<BR>
<BR>
Larry </FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:44:13 -0500
From: Luis De Quesada <lgd1@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [netz] PLEASE KEEP THE LIST ALIVE
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Hello Larry: Thank you very much for your kind words!
Lou D
AGENTKUENSTLER@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/19/03 10:40:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> lgd1@columbia.edu writes:
>
>
>> Hello: During these difficult days I would like to suggest that all
>> of
>> you with things to contribute to the list, do so, to keep the list
>> alive. I've been reading the list for a long time and your
>> contributions
>> are enlightening and educational.
>> Thank you,
>> Luis de Quesada
>
> Luis, I truly believe that it is not possible for the list to die.
> There are way too many political issues to resolve regarding the
> development and governance of the Internet. As you are well aware,
> Michael and Ronda have introduced and articulated deftly many of these
> issues. Personally, as I am looking to pursue in some way, some fair
> level of exploitation of the Internet to reach consumers, I need to
> understand all sides of this development and governance.
>
> As long as I'm still invited, I'd like to stay.
>
> By the way, I pray that everyone remains safe.
>
> Larry
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Hello Larry: Thank you very much for your kind words!
<br>Lou D
<p>AGENTKUENSTLER@aol.com wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>In a message dated
3/19/03 10:40:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, lgd1@columbia.edu writes:</font></font>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Hello:
During these difficult days I would like to suggest that all of</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>you with things to contribute to the
list, do so, to keep the list</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>alive. I've been reading the list
for a long time and your contributions</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>are enlightening and educational.</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Thank you,</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Luis de Quesada</font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Luis, I truly believe that it is not
possible for the list to die. There are way too many political issues
to resolve regarding the development and governance of the Internet.
As you are well aware, Michael and Ronda have introduced and articulated
deftly many of these issues. Personally, as I am looking to pursue
in some way, some fair level of exploitation of the Internet to reach consumers,
I need to understand all sides of this development and governance.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>As long as I'm still invited, I'd like
to stay.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>By the way, I pray that everyone remains
safe.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Larry</font></font></blockquote>
</html>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:45:06 -0500
From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [netz] Internet in Iraq: Better than Bombs
>Hi,
>
>I thought this article about the Internet in Iraq from Radio Netherlands
>would interest readers of this list. My heart goes out to all the Iraqi
>people and to those military personnel whose lives will be shattered
>because the military of the US and its allies have been thrown against
>Iraq. Those who want democracy anywhere might help that process by helping
>spread the Internet to those places. Bombs and invasions from my point of
>view can not spread democracy.
Then, I would propose, limit the discussion to the Internet and keep
the bombs and invasions out of it. I could very well make comments
that I will not.
The quoted piece from Radio Netherlands does not ring completely
accurately about how one implements Internet connectivity. In
particular, I can't think of ANYTHING that the US could control that
becomes a make-or-break of Internet access to Iraqis, other than
direct attack on things at the level of PCs and telephones.
>
>Take care.
>
>Jay
>-------------
>Radio Netherlands 14 March 2003
>
>This is the weekly newsletter from Media Network at Radio
>Netherlands.
>
>http://www.rnw.nl/realradio/features/html/iraq-internet.html
>
> The Iraqi Internet
> by Andy Sennitt
>
>Until 1999, ordinary Iraqis did not have
>access to the Internet. That was not entirely
>the fault of the Iraqi government.
>UN-imposed trade sanctions made it
>impossible to import the necessary technical
>equipment. Now the government allows
>individuals to access the Net, albeit only via its own
>service provider (the State Company for Internet
>Services) which trades as uruklink.net. Only in
>quasi-autonomous Iraqi Kurdistan is the Web largely
>free of official censorship.
>
>The Iraqi government sees the Internet as a form of
>getting information from abroad, and as a source of
>income through charging relatively high fees to use the
>Internet. Even so it's cheaper to send an e-mail than
>make a phone call in Iraq.
>
> Internet cafes
>
>The first state-run Internet cafe opened in July 2000, and
>there were around 60 by the start of 2003. Those who can
>afford it are allowed to have Internet connections at
>home. The cost is 50,000 Iraqi dinars (about US$25) for
>three months, with an additional charge for each e-mail
>message. A locally built computer costs around US$600.
>That's beyond the means of most ordinary Iraqis, who
>prefer to use the Internet cafes where typically they can
>surf the net for 500 Dinars (about 25 US cents) per
>session.
>
>But at least some Iraqis now have direct access to
>information from outside the country, though there's no
>doubt that the authorities closely monitor their online
>activity. There's a degree of official censorship too. Iraqis
>cannot access Web sites whose contents are considered
>"contradictory to Islamic law." Any Iraqi clicking on a link
>to a site that contains sexual or pornographic material is
>receives an "Access Denied" message. Also banned are
>the sites of Iraqi opposition groups, and some US
>government sites. Iraqis are not allowed to open E-mail
>accounts with commercial providers outside Iraq, such as
>Hotmail and Yahoo! Unexplained disruptions to service
>still occur, probably more for political than technical
>reasons.
>
> Iraqi Web sites
>T
>here are relatively few Web sites produced inside Iraq
>for the outside world, all of them by the Iraqi government
>and institutions. They are linked from the Home Page of
>Uruklink. Ironically, one of the sites is for the Iraq
>Tourism Board. Note from the screen shot below that they
>have pages in 'Dutche' (sic) which in fact turns out to be
>German.
>
>The Web site of the Iraqi News Agency has a substantial
>section in English, though when we checked the latest
>headlines were three days old, suggesting that stories
>have to go through a rigorous checking procedure before
>they're published.
>
> The Iraq Satellite Channel affair
>
>The Iraqi Internet infrastructure has been set up
>with scant attention to efficiency and security. This is
>amply demonstrated by what happened to the Web site
>of the Iraq Satellite Channel, Iraq's international TV
>service. On 18 February 2003, a routine check by
>Media Network showed that the site appeared to
>have been hacked. During 2002, we had been able to
>watch the channel in streaming video at www.iraqtv.ws.
>But we were surprised to find that the content had been
>replaced by a Christian fundamentalist message (see
>screenshot on right).
>
>Media Network's Lou Josephs and Sheila Lennon of the
>Providence Journal managed to track down the person
>responsible, American James Poole. It turns out that he
>had discovered the domain registration had expired, and a
>quick piece of thinking allowed him to reregister it.
>
> Quick Thinking
>
>"I don't know if they let it lapse or just never got it up off
>the ground," said Poole. "I was scanning their sites
>looking for some weakness or vulnerability, and
>discovered that they had a link to their satellite service
>that was not registered at that point, so I registered the
>link and put up my own site. I registered the site on
>Sunday, Feb 16 and the fact that my link is still imbedded
>on the site tells me that someone over there is helping
>me, either out of fear or agreement. I have received one
>threat by E-mail but many positive messages of
>encouragement, even one in French and one short letter
>of appreciation from an Arabic sounding name."
>
>Poole was able to take advantage of the fact
>that the State Company for Internet Services
>(SCIS), uses just two foreign companies to
>handle nearly all its Internet access. One is
>American (Atlanta International Teleport of
>Douglasville, Ga.), and the other is British
>(SMS Internet of Rugby, Warwickshire). This
>arrangement came about when SCIS approached ARABSAT
>to obtain Internet access. ARABSAT contracts its Internet
>service from various commercial companies, which happen
>to include AIT and SMS. In theory, the US and Britain
>could shut down Iraq's internet access if they wanted to,
>simply by ordering AIT and SMS to switch off the
>connection.
>
> Opposition Sites
>
>Most Iraqi-related sites operating in the west are either
>independent or run by opposition groups supporting the
>goal of regime change in Iraq. Some of them have
>suffered denial of service attacks and other
>inconveniences. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
>has not ruled out the possibility that some of the denial
>of service attacks are the work of pro-Baghdad hackers.
>But this seems unlikely as the general level of Internet
>expertise in Iraq remains low. A more likely scenario is
>that US citizens, unable to grasp the complexities of Iraqi
>politics, were behind most of the attacks. It is, of course,
>politically expedient for the Bush administration to claim
>that cyber attacks by Iraq, Al Qaeda and other
>'undesirable' elements, are a threat to US security. At the
>same time, the FBI has warned US hackers to desist from
>"patriotic hacking", as it is a crime and could even
>backfire.
>
> Cyberwar
>
>In January, the US Defense Department began
>sending thousands of e-mail messages to
>Leaders of the Iraqi military, warning them that
>that they would sustain heavy losses unless
>they defied Saddam Hussein. This is very much
>the same message as the psyop radio broadcasts. It's
>believed that the 193rd Special Operations Wing of the
>Pennsylvania Air National Guard, which operates
>Information Radio, and the CIA were involved in the
>e-mail campaign. They used the services of Iraqi
>defectors to contact former colleagues and urge them to
>cooperate with US forces. These are extracts from some of
>the messages:
>
> "If you provide information on weapons of mass
> destruction or you take steps to hamper their use,
> we will do what is necessary to protect you and
> protect your families. Failing to do that will lead to
> grave personal consequences."
> "If you take part in the use of these ugly weapons,
> you'll be regarded as war criminals. If you can make
> these weapons ineffective, then do it. If you can
> identify the position of weapons of mass destruction
> by light signals, then do it. If all this is not possible,
> then at least refuse to take part in any activity or
> follow orders to use weapons of mass destruction."
> "Iraqi chemical, biological and nuclear weapons
> violate Iraq's commitment to agreements and United
> Nations resolutions. Iraq has been isolated because
> of this behaviour. The United States and its allies
> want the Iraqi people to be liberated from Saddam's
> injustice and for Iraq to become a respected member
> of the international community. Iraq's future depends
> on you."
>
>It's not clear if any of the messages reached their
>intended recipients, as all Internet traffic reaching Iraq is
>monitored and is filtered through uruklink.net.
>
>NB: Radio Netherlands is not responsible for the content of external Web
> sites.© 2003 Send us an e-mail
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:50:58 -0500
From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [netz] Free speech (was NETIZENS...)
Luis,
I offer my hand in friendship and regret hard words. Let's see if we
can make it work.
>Dan : Thank you for the tip, from now on I'll use netiquette when I write. I
>also want to thank those of you who defend freedom of speech, writing, etc.
>I wrote to Jay and Ronda saying that I was "out my league" when I posted my
>personal views on the war and democracy, when I actually should have written
>how the war and democracy affect netizens, the net,.communications, etc.
You aren't the only one who has done this. Frankly, I become angry
every time anyone talks about bombs versus Internet. It's not a
realistic direct comparison. It is valid to talk about how to get the
Internet to penetrate more deeply into countries that limit access to
it, be they Singapore or Iraq.
>I
>didn't mean to offend anyone or become controversial and I apologize for any
>words I used out of anger. I am a simple person, a worker,not familiar with
>many of the terms you use.
Quite seriously, I would be interested in knowing more about the work
you do. Hypothetically, I'll assume you are involved in building
construction, agriculture, or a similar pragmatic field of work. It
would, I believe, be entirely appropriate to Netizenship to examine
how the Net could help workers build things that are constructive to
a society. Some of these are very pragmatic, like going to a website
to get the strength specifications of lumber or field-built
improvements like box beams.
>I have learned to use a computer, but I'm still a
>great distance away from becoming fully skilled in it. I have learned a good
>deal from my friends the Haubens, whom I love and respect very much. One of
>my goals is to become a good and effective netizen and I would appreciate
>very much any help any of you can give me in becoming one.
>Take care,
>Luis de Quesada
>
>Dan Duris wrote:
>
>> HCB> In my opinion, it should be equally protected that that this person
>> HCB> be able to ELECTRONICALLY (in the context of Netizens) put out this
>> HCB> message, and for an odious racist to spew his filth. It would be
>> HCB> wrong, for example, to shut down a website associated with either.
>> ...
>> HCB> But I still wouldn't shut down his website.
>>
>> This is American view of free speech. In Europe it is community that
>> decides what's appropriate and what's out of limits. Of course, I am
>> not against displaying fascist webpages, but guidance is needed for
>> children and youth while working with net. And it should be parental
> > guidance preferably.
But I am an American. You are a European. The Internet is neither and
both. What are the bases of governance?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:57:52 -0500
From: Luis De Quesada <lgd1@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [netz] Free speech (was NETIZENS...)
Hello Howard: I want to thank you for your words of friendship and I also offer
you my hand and I apologize for any harsh words I said to you.I sincerely hope
this is the start of a good friendship and association between us through the
list. I work as a Library Assistant at Columbia University at the Health
Sciences Library where I met Jay years ago. Later I met his wife Ronda and their
son Michael and we became good friends ever since. They are beautiful people. I
am 60 years old and I have a wife and two boys, one 23 and the oldest one 21.
I think I have read other articles you have posted on the list. I think this past
incident has finally drilled in my mind the true mission of list, which is the
posting of things relevant to the net, communications, etc. I once proposed
through an e-mail which I posted in the Amateur Computerist in 1995, that more of
what I call "volkscomputers" or inexpensive computers be made available so that
governments and insitutions could buy them in large quantities, to make every
grammar and high school student computer literate. My longterm goal is to see
everyone computer literate and skilled. I went through some hardships at work
because I wasn't. I think my prayers have been heard, because a greater number of
low cost computers have been appearing on the market ever since. I couldn't
believe it when my son and I were able to purchase our first low cost home
computer.
As you very well say, the net and groups like netizens can help workers greatly
in their endeavors. As I go along I hope to learn from your articles and from all
the others on the list. I hope the Iraqi people get better access to the net and
at a more affordable level for them. I see you do care about their access to it
and that's a very good thing in which we have mutual agreement.
Thank you for becoming my friend and also hopefully one of my educators as I
develop my computer skills and in becoming a good and effective netizen.
Luis de Quesada
"Howard C. Berkowitz" wrote:
> Luis,
>
> I offer my hand in friendship and regret hard words. Let's see if we
> can make it work.
>
> >Dan : Thank you for the tip, from now on I'll use netiquette when I write. I
> >also want to thank those of you who defend freedom of speech, writing, etc.
> >I wrote to Jay and Ronda saying that I was "out my league" when I posted my
> >personal views on the war and democracy, when I actually should have written
> >how the war and democracy affect netizens, the net,.communications, etc.
>
> You aren't the only one who has done this. Frankly, I become angry
> every time anyone talks about bombs versus Internet. It's not a
> realistic direct comparison. It is valid to talk about how to get the
> Internet to penetrate more deeply into countries that limit access to
> it, be they Singapore or Iraq.
>
> >I
> >didn't mean to offend anyone or become controversial and I apologize for any
> >words I used out of anger. I am a simple person, a worker,not familiar with
> >many of the terms you use.
>
> Quite seriously, I would be interested in knowing more about the work
> you do. Hypothetically, I'll assume you are involved in building
> construction, agriculture, or a similar pragmatic field of work. It
> would, I believe, be entirely appropriate to Netizenship to examine
> how the Net could help workers build things that are constructive to
> a society. Some of these are very pragmatic, like going to a website
> to get the strength specifications of lumber or field-built
> improvements like box beams.
>
> >I have learned to use a computer, but I'm still a
> >great distance away from becoming fully skilled in it. I have learned a good
> >deal from my friends the Haubens, whom I love and respect very much. One of
> >my goals is to become a good and effective netizen and I would appreciate
> >very much any help any of you can give me in becoming one.
> >Take care,
> >Luis de Quesada
> >
> >Dan Duris wrote:
> >
> >> HCB> In my opinion, it should be equally protected that that this person
> >> HCB> be able to ELECTRONICALLY (in the context of Netizens) put out this
> >> HCB> message, and for an odious racist to spew his filth. It would be
> >> HCB> wrong, for example, to shut down a website associated with either.
> >> ...
> >> HCB> But I still wouldn't shut down his website.
> >>
> >> This is American view of free speech. In Europe it is community that
> >> decides what's appropriate and what's out of limits. Of course, I am
> >> not against displaying fascist webpages, but guidance is needed for
> >> children and youth while working with net. And it should be parental
> > > guidance preferably.
>
> But I am an American. You are a European. The Internet is neither and
> both. What are the bases of governance?
------------------------------
End of Netizens-Digest V1 #437
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