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Netizens-Digest Volume 1 Number 347
Netizens-Digest Tuesday, December 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 347
Netizens Association Discussion List Digest
In this issue:
Re: [netz] Some Analysis of ICANN
[netz] about the vision of the future versus e-commerce and the past
Re: [netz] about the vision of the future versus e-commerce and the past
[netz] Echelon...
Re: [netz] Echelon...
[netz] VW.net
Re: [netz] Echelon...
Re: [netz] Echelon...
[netz] HMO sues non-profit over Web address (US)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:04:35 -04
From: kerryo@ns.sympatico.ca (Kerry Miller)
Subject: Re: [netz] Some Analysis of ICANN
Ronda,
> There is an effort to portray the Internet as the creature
> of some self organizing private force, but that is inaccurate.
>
> It is very much the result of government support for scientist
> who were able to provide scieentific leadership to a community
> of people and to learn from that community. This is the role
> played the ARPA's Information Processing Techniques Office.
> And there was a way that other countries provided similar
> support to scientists who worked collaboratively with
> scientists at ARPA/IPTO to develop the Internet.
>
> The lessons from this development need to be learned and
> applied to how to continue this development.
It is very much the result of government support for something that got
demonstrably (not to say monstrously) out of control. In other words, all
the professional collaboration in the world couldnt stop the net from
being used by *individuals: casual self-educated independent-minded
non-affiliated non-institutionalized non-collaborating *non-authorized*
real people. This was irrefutable evidence that 'government is too big,'
'the right hand doesnt know what the LH is doing,' 'money is being
squandered on unproductive projects,' and that private industry
*deserved to show that this thing could be 'successfully managed.'
That DoC never thought to ask, 'managed' to what end, for whose
benefit, just shows how demoralized the department was (and is). Why,
they probably breathed with relief when Postel said Jones and Day (with
or without Cockley or Pogue, who cares?) knew just the way to make
the transition. (You have to admit, USG could never have *managed it
by itself; the only way it knows to carry off _faits accomplis_ is
'covertly,' with black budgets and puppet governments so remote that
the news dont shine...)
The lessons from this development that needs to be learned and
applied is *not how to continue *this 'development,' but to be looking
ahead at other areas where impartial, benevolent, human-service
oriented governance has been taken for granted: education is very
clearly next in line (health/ welfare never had a chance), tho police, fire,
roads and sewerage are not far behind.
In other words, instead of squandering the year or two of connectivity
you have left on chiding the communications-coup, why not manage the
little grey cells that still remember how to 'rally round' towards some
*productive work? How do we want to live in 2010?
kerry
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:28:25 -0500 (EST)
From: ronda@panix.com
Subject: [netz] about the vision of the future versus e-commerce and the past
Some more discussion from nettime on the issue of the vision of
the Netizens versus the e-commerce barrage that I thought worth
discussion on the Netizens list as well.
:
From: { brad brace } <bbrace@ncal.verio.com> wrote:
>I hear what you're saying... whatever happened to FreeNets and FidoNet?
>Even Usenet. (Was the 'difficulty' of UNIX also a global community
>enabler? Received any HTML-ladden email gibberish lately? I hear that
>email is still the 'killer-app?')
Well there are still Freenets, but not the Cleveland Free-Net.
I do know that they don't get the support that e-commerce is
getting from the U.S. government, at least.
And Usenet hasn't gone anywhere, though some newsgroups are
not functioning the way they had been before the hype of
making your millions on the Internet.
And about UNIX and 'difficulty' - those who want power tools
have been very grateful for UNIX and happy to learn how to
use them. Something that is customizable by the person may
be take some learning which is well rewarded by the power you
gain thereby.
I can not imagine how different it would be if I had to get
along without UNIX online. And not too long ago I heard
grandmothers on a linux newsgroups discussing how they were
eager to teach their granddaughters linux :-) I know of
teenagers who learned UNIX online and it has made their
life ever easier.
I can decide what I want to do and using combinations of tools,
figure out how to do it.
And the software industry and the Internet would have been
much more difficult without UNIX, let alone the early
not realizing how the cooperatative activity and spread of
Usenet abroad helped set the basis for the spread of the Internet.
(I discuss this in chapter 9 of Netizens: "On the Early
History and Impact of UNIX: Tools to Build the Tools for a New
Millennium. http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/ Also see chapter 10
about the early development and spread of Usenet "On the Early
Days of Usenet: The Roots of the Cooperative Online Culture.")
)
But the newspapers in the US, at any rate, don't let the public
know anything about these developments. Instead they hype how
wonderous it will be to buy online :-( But the real advance
that the Internet represents economically is demonstrated by
the linux movement, that it is a new way to solve the
otherwise seemingly impossible problem of how a large number
of people can work to together to create the software that
the world needs to deal with this new era of software tools
to move us from the age of iron to the next age.
And the Internet makes this kind of software development
possible on a global scale. This is part of the economic
achievement of the Internet, just as the creation of timesharing,
of the ARPANET, or the Internet or UNIX.
So we have a new science of computer communications and a new
technology that it has brought into the world. And some have
called this cybernetics, while others seem not to notice
there is a new baby on the block, and try to pretend that
you can do things the old way and import the old world onto
the Internet and go on the way things were done in the past.
That is the contest that is ongoing. It isn't an easy one
to prevail in, but it sure is interesting and even exciting
when one sees and comes to understand the new that has
been born. And it is a difficult but important challenge
to make it possible for the new seedlings to sprout and
spread, all the while the old is out to try to stomp them
out and replace them with a rehashed version of the old
world ways.
The new doesn't have an easy time of it. But though the
baby appears weak and little, it is the future, and though
the old man appears big and superior, it is the past.
So the hype of e-commerce will come and go but the new
represented by the new ways of producing software, or
open protocols and open interfaces, they are the taste
of the future.
And guess what. We are going into a new millennium. And
there is something to celebrate, believe it or not :-)
And the Internet, UNIX, Usenet, FIDONET, and LINUX,
etc. have been produced by the cooperative efforts of
many learning how to work in a new way and to relate
in a new way, even when we violently disagree.
So there is a basis to welcome the new world that the
millennium will bring, even though it isn't an easy
road, nor does the promise seem that it will be possible
to realize.
But that's the nature of the future.
And along with the achievements of these past 40 years
of interactive participatory computer developments,
we have the methodologies to learn from as well.
I'll write more about this when I have a little more time.
But the seeds that set the basis for the computer achievements
of today were spread as support for basic research and
researchers. And it was through a collaborative process
of researchers from different countries that the work was
carried out.
So we have not only a product that is quite special, but
the process to learn from and build on.
However, it isn't that the press is going tell any of this.
Instead it will make up myths about "markets" and "product
oriented research" etc.
So we have the reality and the mythology and the challenge
to sort through it to determine the future we want and how
to achieve it.
Cheers
Ronda
ronda@ais.org
http://www.ais.org/~ronda/new.papers/
http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 00:27:14 -04
From: kerryo@ns.sympatico.ca (Kerry Miller)
Subject: Re: [netz] about the vision of the future versus e-commerce and the past
Ronda rhapsodized:
> But the real advance that the Internet represents economically is
> demonstrated by the linux movement, that it is a new way to solve the
> otherwise seemingly impossible problem of how a large number of people
> can work to together to create the software that the world needs to deal
> with this new era of software tools to move us from the age of iron to
> the next age.
Take it slow - indeed, backwards:
4. What next age?
3. Which world needs tools
2. What tools are needed for people to work together?
1. Why do you say this is a new problem?
0. Whats wrong with the tool that every 'world' that thought it had a new
problem has discovered works best so far?
If working together on software is so powerful, why does it seem that no
one ever gets to the point of *appying the software?
kerry
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:02:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Bino Gopal <bino@rabi.columbia.edu>
Subject: [netz] Echelon...
Well, I was talking with Ronda and Jay the other day, and mentioned
Echelon, and was a bit surprised at the lack of recognition of the name
from such otherwise "aware" netizens... Now while we discussed the
privacy issues resultant from this, and I think we agreed that it was NOT
the paramount issue of importance wrt to the Internet (that being it's
availability as a public resource for all equally, given its promise),
this Echelon thing is still pretty scary.
So, for Jay and Ronda, and others, here's a starting link for this Echelon
business:
http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,32586,00.html
Brief summary:
17 November 1999 ACLU Wants Questions About Echelon Answered
The ACLU has launched the Echelon Watch web site, which pushes for
disclosure of the laws under which the purported global electronic
surveillance system, called Echelon, operates. While the US has not
officially acknowledged Echelon's existence, the new site has posted a
letter from an Australian intelligence official which appears to confirm
the system's existence.
The direct link to the ACLU website:
http://www.aclu.org/echelonwatch/index.html
Oh, and the site I was linked two months ago when I first heard about
this. Lots of good documention:
http://jya.com/crypto.htm#Echelon
and
http://www.jya.org
So what do people think of this? I have to admit, I'm more accepting of
the possibility of it's existence now, given all the recent info...before
I just thought it was just another wacky conspriacy theory, but now...
BINO
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 22:50:15 -04
From: kerryo@ns.sympatico.ca (Kerry Miller)
Subject: Re: [netz] Echelon...
> So what do people think of this? I have to admit, I'm more accepting
> of the possibility of it's existence now, given all the recent
> info...before I just thought it was just another wacky conspriacy
> theory, but now...
Just one question: who has the contracts for the puters doing all this
processing? In view of the burgeoning overhead of 'meta-information'
which we normal mortals contend with, it looks like Echelon would have
to be at least on the same order of maginitude as the entire Net itself.
But maybe there is to be a magnanimous 'spin-off' of the technology,
like teflon from rocket re-entry tiles, and we need only bear with this
R&D phase to enjoy Win2020, which will not only Explore our files and
URLs, but interpret, analyse, collate, and report on whether they are
worth opening in the first place. When it senses that we have read (to
the degree to which we're authorized) the report, it will then seamlessly
delete the discards, and generate the keepers -- all with only a 10 Meg
kernel.
kerry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:55:51 -04
From: kerryo@ns.sympatico.ca (Kerry Miller)
Subject: [netz] VW.net
http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article/0,1087,3_246671,00.html
Volkswagen Loses First Round in Domain Dispute By Maura Ginty In
another David-versus-Goliath court battle, a Virginia judge set another
precedent for small companies by favoring Virtual Works' domain name
registration over the Volkswagon trademark.
U.S. District Judge Claude Hilton last week refused to grant an injuction
to Volkswagen that would force Internet company Virtual Works from
using the vw.net domain address.
The judge found that Volkswagen was not demonstrating "irreparable
harm," effectively invalidating Volkswagen's cease and desist order
which was based on an Network Solutions (NSI) statute related to
trademark status.
Virtual Works had counter-filed for entitlement of the domain name, and
sought damages from NSI for changing its dispute policy to favor
trademark holders. It also sued Volkswagen for interfering with its
contract with NSI. In further domino-effect filings, NSI called for a
dismissal of the charges, which the court granted.
[...]
====
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:27:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Bino Gopal <bino@rabi.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [netz] Echelon...
On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Kerry Miller wrote:
> > So what do people think of this? I have to admit, I'm more accepting
> > of the possibility of it's existence now, given all the recent
> > info...before I just thought it was just another wacky conspriacy
> > theory, but now...
>
> Just one question: who has the contracts for the puters doing all this
> processing? In view of the burgeoning overhead of 'meta-information'
> which we normal mortals contend with, it looks like Echelon would have
> to be at least on the same order of maginitude as the entire Net itself.
>
<snip>
>
> kerry
Well, that was my main question to, where can they get the processing
power to handle all this information, but from the responses I'd gotten
elsewhere, the kind of information capture they are doing only requires
automated systems, which a good crop of current supercomputers can easily
handle. The power needed would only be proportional to the bandwidth of
information transfer at certain key points, and as we know that bandwidth
is still not insane by any means, I think it is completely within the
realm of possibility.
Interesting that there haven't been any other replies to this subject, and
not much public furor over it. I mean, this is just about the most
complete and utter invasion/destruction of privacy possible to
contemplate (on the net), yet no one seems interested in discussing it, or
even arguing about whether it's possible.
I mean if people thought it was a hoax, you'd think they'd at least argue
why it would be, but no one's bothering to even do that! Is it just b/c
people don't care, or think it's so impossible? Fact is, it's not.
There's strongly mounting evidence that makes it more credible than the
TWA Flight 800 being shot down by a missile theory, which just increases
my confusion. What am I missing here? It can't be that people don't care
about privacy--look what happened with Real Networks--they've got a
lawsuit when it was discovered that they were reading your computer's
information! This goes SO far beyond that it's not even comparable! So
what gives?
I mean, this is the netizen's list right, where people who are 'true' net
citizens discuss issues of import? Well, in a true democracy, isn't
actions like this one of the most dangerous things a govt. can do? Where
is the safe and free expression of ideas possible when the govt. knows who
the dissenters are and can shut them down w/o restraint?! You all heard
about what the FBI did with the Times Square paramilitary traning video
hoax right? It was just a hoax someone put up on their website to pretend
that the govt. was going to invade Times Square on New Year's Eve and
cause random mayhem and destruction (for what purpose wasn't apparent;
part of the reason it was so obviously a fake). But the FBI moved in and
basically shut him down in no time flat by pressuring anyone they could
get their hands on. And for what?! Talk about 1st Amendement rights
violations! Looks like it's more a test of the FBI's limits as to what
they can do, and whether anyone will challenge them on this--I hope
someone is, cause it's scary that they think they can control the Net this
way.
Anyway, enough from me. Hopefully this will be enought to provoke a
response from someone, even if it's only Kerry! ;) Thanks for the
previous response Kerry, even though it didn't really seem to address the
question seriously...
BINO
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:27:46 -04
From: kerryo@ns.sympatico.ca (Kerry Miller)
Subject: Re: [netz] Echelon...
Bino,
> this is just about the most complete and utter invasion/destruction of
> privacy possible to contemplate (on the net), yet no one seems
> interested in discussing it, or even arguing about whether it's possible.
>
> I mean if people thought it was a hoax, you'd think they'd at least
> argue why it would be, but no one's bothering to even do that! ...
> What am I missing here? It can't be that
> people don't care about privacy--look what happened with Real
> Networks--they've got a lawsuit when it was discovered that they were
> reading your computer's information! This goes SO far beyond that it's
> not even comparable! So what gives?
>
> I mean, this is the netizen's list right, where people who are 'true'
> net citizens discuss issues of import? Well, in a true democracy, isn't
> actions like this one of the most dangerous things a govt. can do?
> Where is the safe and free expression of ideas possible when the govt.
> knows who the dissenters are and can shut them down w/o restraint?!
This seems to be the nub of your concern: that there should be a
ruckus when there isnt. But look at the WTO meeting in Seattle -- do
you really think the street-riots and demonstrations will make any
*political difference?
This is the Net, where a) 'protesting' doesnt work (The IFWP list has
been protesting for more than 2 years - what has it achieved?) and b) we
dissenters know that the powermasters know that dissention is actually
a Good Thing, and that "the safe and free expression of ideas" is not
only possible but under way as we speak/ write. Rest assured, some
aspects of civilization have progressed, and a shrewd understanding of
human psychology is one of them.
This leaves us with the delicate question, what are *you worried about?
They havent come for you yet, have they? Just because the FBI leans
on an ISP to take down a (paid-up!) subscriber's site which depicted
riots in NYC on NYEve doesnt mean we should lose faith in democracy!
Enjoy,
kerry
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 23:44:58
From: John Walker <jwalker@networx.on.ca>
Subject: [netz] HMO sues non-profit over Web address (US)
The gift that keeps on giving all year long...
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- ------------
HMO sues non-profit over Web address (US)
Key issue in domain name fight: Confusion
By Julie Appleby, USA TODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctg817.htm
A large California HMO says it owns the name Health Net and wants
everyone else to stop using it -- including a non-profit group that
aids doctors in remote areas of Africa and Asia.
But the non-profit, whose founders include a Nobel Peace Prize
winner, has used the name for its Web site since 1993 and doesn't
want to change it. The dispute over the Web site name ultimately may
be decided by a federal judge.
The fight pits the non-profit, with $800,000 in revenue, against an
HMO whose parent company brought in $8.9 billion in revenue last
year. At issue is whether the non-profit, SatelLife, of Watertown,
Mass., can keep its healthnet.org Web site address.
Health workers in 164 countries rely on the site to relay
information by computer and satellite -- including warnings about
outbreaks of infectious diseases, says Holly Ladd, SatelLife's
executive director. A forced name change, the non-profit contends,
could cost thousands of dollars and hamper its ability to contact
health workers, she says.
"In the end it's a question about who controls the Internet, and it
raises questions about what the Internet is about," says Ladd.
But Health Net, the California HMO owned by Foundation Health
Systems, sees it differently.
"We've owned the trademark (on Health Net) since 1981. This is about
us protecting our name," says Lisa Haines of Foundation. "It's not
unlike what any other company in America would do."
Health Net, with 2.2 million California members, registered two Web
site addresses in 1996, healthnet.com and healthnet.net, through
which it provides information to members and potential customers.
Haines says the company only recently became aware of the
healthnet.org site -- along with a number of other sites using
similar names. It has sent letters to several warning them to change
names.
If SatelLife had done a trademark search before naming the site,
there would not have been a problem, Haines says.
The SatelLife Web site processes 38,000 e-mail messages each day,
picking some up via satellite transmissions. It supports online
networks such as HealthNet Kenya and HealthNet Uganda that allow
medical workers to talk with one another and read peer-reviewed
medical journals.
The non-profit was co-founded by Dr. Bernard Lown, who won the 1985
Nobel Peace Prize for his role in forming International Physicians
for Prevention of Nuclear War.
Changing the name would involve more than creating a new Web
address, Ladd says. Materials would have to be translated; links with
computers and the company's satellite would also be affected. But
mainly, she says, getting the word out to thousands of workers in
remote areas could be challenging, creating confusion.
The issue of confusion will be key to the case, which has been filed
in Federal District Court in Massachusetts by SatelLife. To prove
trademark infringement, Health Net must show that its customers are
confused by SatelLife's use of the Health Net name on its Web site,
trademark lawyers say.
"If SatelLife can show that there has been little or no confusion
over the long period of its use of the domain name, it may carry the
day," says Henry Wixon, senior partner at Hale and Dorr, a Washington
law firm. "This will be an interesting case to watch."
Links:
http://www.healthnet.org/
http://www.healthnet.com/healthnet/
http://www.healthnet.net/
- -------------
Also in this issue:
- - The Australian: Australia Authorises Official Hacking
Dec 06 1999: The Australian government has passed a bill which will
allow Australian Intelligence operatives to hack into privately
owned PCs and corporate computer systems to access information.
- - AT&T's Promise Is Not Enough, Critics Say (US)
AT&T's commitment Monday to open its cable network in the future did
not stop ISPs from urging the long distance and cable giant to open
its network completely and immediately.
- - Finally, a Palestinian Homeland (Palestine)
Palestinians may be having a tough time establishing an independent
state in the Mideast, but soon they'll be officially recognized in
cyberspace.
- - Study: Western Europe Hungry For All Things Digital (Europe)
According to a new study by Forrester Research B.V., the Internet's
reach in Western Europe will nearly double over the next three years
as digital technology becomes more commonplace.
- - Regulators Slow E-Trade's Expansion (UK)
The online investment firm's deal to buy Telebank has yet to win
government approval. The big issue: a stake held by Softbank.
- - HMO sues non-profit over Web address (US)
Key issue in domain name fight: Confusion
- - Asia server spending up (Asia)
Spending on computer servers up 30% this year in Asia, says research
firm
- - Backflip a Search Engine for Bookmarks (US)
Bookmark Search Engine Gives Users the Web as They Want It
- - Why Winning in the Net's Phase 2 Will Be Harder Than You Think (US)
Strategies for the Net's Next Phase
A potentially disturbing Internet trend is popping up on the radar
screen.
- - GOVERNMENT URGED TO PUT HOUSE VALUATIONS ONLINE
- - INFORMATION CHAMPIONS HIT THE GROUND RUNNING
- - UN DEBATES WOMEN AND THE MEDIA
- - SCOTTISH COLLABORATION ON KNOWLEDGE ECONOMY
- - THE MAKING OF 'E-EUROPE'
- - OFTEL SHIFTS ON INTERNET PRICING
- - INLAND REVENUE GRAPPLES WITH CYBERTAXATION
- - ACTION URGED TO EMPOWER OLDER PEOPLE
- - SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT PIONEERS DIGITAL DEMOCRACY
- - LOVELOCK SLAUGHTERS SACRED COWS OF ONLINE LOCAL GOVERNMENT
- - PRESERVING GOVERNMENT EMAIL FOR POSTERITY
- - PRIVATE SECTOR INVOLVEMENT IN WEB PORTALS - AN IIB DEBATE
- - AN 'EASY SOLUTION' FOR LOCAL PORTALS - OR IS IT?
- - RESPONSE: HOW TOWNPAGES CAN BOOST COUNCILS' ONLINE EFFECTIVENESS
- - THE REVOLUTION INSIDE
- - New Lists and Journals
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------------------------------
End of Netizens-Digest V1 #347
******************************
