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Netizens-Digest Volume 1 Number 286
Netizens-Digest Friday, March 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 286
Netizens Association Discussion List Digest
In this issue:
[netz] Re: [IFWP] Re: Effective meetings, past and future
[netz] Benton: Homeless find a Home Base on the Net
[netz] (Fwd) NEA Cancels Childrens Book by Subcom'dte Marcos
[netz] It's DEregulation in *this* case that is the danger!
Re: [netz] It's DEregulation in *this* case that is the danger!
Re: [netz] ICANN breaking what is not broken
[netz] Re: [IFWP] Re: (!) Vint Cerf designing network for solar system (!)
[netz] Re: [IFWP] Re: Effective meetings, past and future
Re: [netz] ICANN breaking what is not broken
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:51:24 -0500
From: Craig Simon <cls@flywheel.com>
Subject: [netz] Re: [IFWP] Re: Effective meetings, past and future
It's important to put a good word in for Jonathan Zittrain.
Regardless of my own desire for more openness in ICANN's processes, I
think he and others at the Berkman Center have behaved in an honest and
forthright manner, trying to include as many people in the discussions
as possible. I've listened to the Real Audio feed from at least three
fora where Ronda Hauben has participated (two hosted by BCIS), and in
each instance she was given ample time to state her case. She has been
treated fairly, but she is not fair enough to admit it.
Ronda's allusions to the "Hitler-like" agenda of the Berkman Center and
ICANN are ridiculous and are demeaning to the victims of Hitler's
regime.
Craig Simon
Ronda Hauben wrote:
>
> Jonathan Zittrain <zittrain@cyber.law.harvard.edu> wrote:
[snipped]
> This is your attempt to distort what I have to say and to discredit
> it. This is your effort to institute a Hitler like regime into
> the Internet.
and
> This is how Hitler functioned as well. He couldn't stand any criticism,
> instead he made a victim of those who expressed any criticism,
> making it clear to others that criticism was "verbotten"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:04:16 -0004
From: kerryo@ns.sympatico.ca (Kerry Miller)
Subject: [netz] Benton: Homeless find a Home Base on the Net
HOMELESS FIND A HOME BASE ON THE NET
Issue: Universal Access/Libraries
Some 2 million people spent at least some time homeless last
year. A growing number of them are starting to use Internet access
at public libraries to stay connected. "As an interurban library we've
always had people coming in here smelling bad or looking
tattered," said Cathy Camper, a librarian with the Minneapolis
Public Library. "Our library has always been used in that way and
the Internet is just an extension of that. My sense is what really
changed things was Hotmail. When free services started popping
up, that's when I noticed more people regularly coming in."
Free email accounts and Internet access can provide the homeless
with "lockers" -- a place to keep addresses and notes that are too
important to use. The Internet can also become their main news
source. And, of course, its a great place to connect with people.
"It's like that famous cartoon that says, `On the Net, nobody knows
you're a dog,' " said Katherine Venturella, editor of "Poor People
and Library Services." "Well, on the Internet, nobody knows you're
homeless."
[SOURCE: Chicago Tribune (Sec 5, p.1), AUTHOR: Margie Wylie,
Universal Pres Syndicate]
* (c)Benton Foundation, 1999. Redistribution of this email
publication -- both internally and externally -- is encouraged if it
includes this message.
The Benton Foundation's Communications Policy and Practice
(CPP) <http://www.benton.org/cpphome.html>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:04:16 -0004
From: kerryo@ns.sympatico.ca (Kerry Miller)
Subject: [netz] (Fwd) NEA Cancels Childrens Book by Subcom'dte Marcos
- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date sent: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:40:38 -0600 (CST)
From: MichaelP <papadop@peak.org>
Subject: USA/Mexico: NEA Tries to Censor Childrens Book by Subcom. Marcos
Here's what you may expect if you come to depend on U$ government grants.
One day it's the National Endowment for the Arts, the next it's the
Corporation for Public Broadcasting. If you depend on them to support the
speaking of truth, think again !!
MichaelP
NY Times March 10
Rebel commander paints story of Mexican gods, world of color
New York Times
MEXICO CITY -- A macaw with scarlet and violet plumes soars across the
cover of a book called "The Story of Colors," inviting children to
read a folk tale about Mexican gods who took a gray world and filled it
with brilliant hues.
There are a few surprises, though, in this eye-catching bilingual
children's book just published by a small publisher in El Paso, Texas,
that won a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts.
Its author is Subcomandante Marcos, the political mastermind and
military strategist of the Zapatista guerrillas of southern Mexico. On
the inside flap, he appears in a photo with a black ski mask hiding his
face and bullet-laden ammunition belts slung across his chest.
Tuesday, the chair of the NEA, William J. Ivey -- who is working to
rebuild the agency after its recent reprieve from a death sentence
issued by congressional Republicans -- abruptly canceled the grant for
the book. Ivey overruled a multilayered, yearlong grant-approval
process, acting within hours after the book was brought to his attention
by a reporter's phone call.
He said he was worried that some of the NEA funds might find their way
to the Zapatista rebels, who led an armed uprising in 1994 against the
government of Mexico.
Ivey's decision stunned the Cinco Puntos Press, a shoestring operation
that had laid out $15,000 to print 5,000 copies of the book, half of
which was to be paid by the grant. The books are ready to be distributed
and carry the NEA logo on the last page, together with an acknowledgment
of ``generous support´´ from the agency.
``This is spineless,´´ said Bobby Byrd, a poet and editor of books on
border issues who runs the publishing company with his wife and daughter
from their home in El Paso. ``This book is essentially about diversity
and tolerance, everything the NEA is supposed to stand for, and they
just don´t have the courage to publish it.´´
``The Story of Colors´´ reflects a literary, sometimes whimsical side
that has distinguished Subcomandante Marcos, the only non-Indian among
the Zapatistas´ highest leaders, from other steely Latin American
guerrilla commanders. His real name is Rafael Sebastián Guillén Vicente,
and he is a former university graphics professor.
In the text, the masked rebel leader describes himself as lighting up
his pipe, one of his hallmarks, and sitting down on a jungle pathway to
hear a tale from an Indian elder named Antonio.
The old man recounts how mythical gods grew bored with the universe when
it was tinted only in gray, and went about inventing colors one by one.
In the end they pin all the colors on the tail feathers of the macaw.
The bird "goes strutting about just in case men and women forget how
many colors there are and how many ways of thinking, and that the world
will be happy if all the colors and ways of thinking have their place,"
the text concludes.
The illustrations are bright, broad-stroked paintings of gods with horns
and bug-eyes done by Domitila Dom(acu)nguez, a Mexican Indian artist.
** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material
is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest
in receiving the included information for research and educational
purposes. **
Jos.Anemaet: great suggestion - I'm circulating it widely
MichaelP
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:42:36 -0800
From: Jos.Anemaet
Well, the books are printed are they not? Let's all buy a book; sent
this publishing company a check so we can let William Ivey know what we
think of this move. I looked it up on the Web and found the price
($15.95) with the ISBN 0938317458. Amazon.com invites you to pre-order
it. Jos Anemaet
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:04:05 -0500
From: "P.A. Gantt" <pgantt@icx.net>
Subject: [netz] It's DEregulation in *this* case that is the danger!
Reverse your faulty, big business favored ruling.
Reverse it now.
It's DEregulation of the Net! that is the point.
DEregulation will rob we US taxpayers of reasonable, access!
============================================================
INTERNET
SPEECH: A STABLE MARKET, A DYNAMIC INTERNET
Issue: Internet Regulation
Chairman Kennard's 3/11 Remarks before Legg Mason in Washington (DC): I
believe that two things are most responsible for the explosion of the
Internet, the fastest growing communications tool in the history of the
world. First, this tradition of openness. Second, the fact that the
Internet
is unregulated. The Internet grew so fast that regulators hardly had a
chance to regulate it even if they wanted to. And that's a good thing.
Now,
two weeks ago, the FCC made a decision that addressed the payment of
reciprocal compensation for Internet-bound traffic. Now, in plain
English,
this means that the decision dealt with the way in which different phone
companies pay each other for connecting your call to the Internet. With
this
order, it's clear that the FCC, and the FCC alone, has jurisdiction over
Internet traffic. It means that no state can impose long-distance
charges.
And the FCC won't either.
[Opens the way to DEregulation that creates monopolies if the FCC
does NOT regulate! Witness the monster "baby" USWEST in NM.]
"Let me say this as clearly as I can: as long as I
am chairman of the FCC, we will not regulate the Internet."
~~ Chairman Kennard
[SOURCE: FCC]
~~ Source as posted on: Benton's UPFORGRABs
Subject: Communications-related Headlines for 3/12/99
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:26:29 -0500
From: Kevin Taglang <kevint@BENTON.ORG>
Reply-To: The Up for Grabs Discussion List <UPFORGRABS-L@CDINET.COM>
To: UPFORGRABS-L@CDINET.COM
Yes, and let me say this as clearly as I can:
Yes, and through your lack of regulation sir, you will
cut off universal access to plain ole data lines and reasonable
connect to the Net. You forget so conveniently that people
with families, mortgages, bills to pay work for ISPs.
You forget we US tax payers paid for the Net. DOD/ARPA remember?
Now you price out low to moderate income people
by destroying small ISPs? Creating monopolies?
Geeeee thanks, but no thanks!
And guess what... I am still seeking this answer...
$____ per month for unlimited connection as it exists now.
Currently plain old data lines run ~$15.95 per month.
Unlimited access 24/7 through small ISPs $19.95 per month.
Can you sir clearly state how much your failure to
regulate monopolies will cost we consumers a month?
Waiting... waiting... waiting...
Well?
$____ per month for unlimited connection
<http://www.fcc.gov/Speeches/Kennard/spwek910.html>
You sir are not acting in the US tax payers interest
but are clearly on the side of big business.
- --
P.A. Gantt, Computer Science Technology Instructor
Electronic Media Design and Support Homepage
http://user.icx.net/~pgantt/
mailto:pagantt@technologist.com?Subject=etech
http://horizon.unc.edu/TS/vision/1998-11.asp
Common sense is not common, and conventional wisdom is not
wisdom. But at least you can have conventional sense. ~~ Daily Whale
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:37:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Greg Skinner <gds@best.com>
Subject: Re: [netz] It's DEregulation in *this* case that is the danger!
"P.A. Gantt" <pgantt@icx.net> wrote:
> Can you sir clearly state how much your failure to
> regulate monopolies will cost we consumers a month?
It is my general opinion that it is difficult to regulate monopolies,
particularly in economic times such as these when voters demand that
monopolies be broken up and/or competition be introduced into
industries.
- --gregbo
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:16:10 -0500
From: "P.A. Gantt" <pgantt@icx.net>
Subject: Re: [netz] ICANN breaking what is not broken
I think the subject line says it all.
Mind if I borrow it for another fight? <grin>
- --
P.A. Gantt, Computer Science Technology Instructor
Electronic Media Design and Support Homepage
http://user.icx.net/~pgantt/
mailto:pagantt@technologist.com?Subject=etech
http://horizon.unc.edu/TS/vision/1998-11.asp
Common sense is not common, and conventional wisdom is not
wisdom. But at least you can have conventional sense. ~~ Daily Whale
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:23:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Ronda Hauben <ronda@panix.com>
Subject: [netz] Re: [IFWP] Re: (!) Vint Cerf designing network for solar system (!)
Matt
>Ronda, you quote all the "be liberal" parts of RFC 3, but not the "be
>conservative" part:
>> The content of a NWG note may be any thought, suggestion,
> etc. related to the HOST software or other aspect of the
> network.
Are you saying that ICANN is *not* related to some aspect of
the network?
And I wasn't talking about Bob creating an RFC but about the
spirit of the RFC's to welcome all discussion, which is the
same spirit I found on early MsgGroup mailing list, on early
Usenet, in the Unix community, and the way I was greeted when
I first got on Usenet and continue to find as the essential
Internet and Usenet culture.
It is ICANN that is a pollution and sadly this pollution seems
to be spreading to the IETF mailing list.
ICANN is about the issues that the IETF needs to sort out,
namely the structures and forms and processes for scaling.
Instead of the IETF figuring out what is needed, we have a
new kid on the block usurping the venue and claiming that
the commercial, conflict of interest concerns of industry
are superior to the experimental methodology of computer
science and technology for solving the problems of
how to scale the Internet.
I was at the ISOC press conference in July 1998 when
Vint Cerf and others talked all about IP on Mars
and hid the fact of what was being done with
respect to privatizing the controlling functions of
the Internet and the functions needed for scaling.
Included in this privatization is the IETF and the
protocols, so the fact that Bob was asking for
discussion of the issues at the IETF was not a surprise,
only the surprise was how silent has been the IETF
in discussing this publicly and how the effort instead
seems to be to shut up anyone who raises these issues.
Do you not think what is happening with ICANN is
appropriate for the IETF to be discussing publicly?
>Allisat's messages have been called off-topic for the ietf@ietf.org
>venue. You made a lot of noise without answering that charge.
I responded to this message. Also I have at times looked
at the IETF discussion list and saw Bob's messages and
discussion of them that seemed helpful. And I have
seen folks raise issues like scaling and get only one
or two serious responses and then other responses that
seemed to suggest the topic was inappropriate for IETF
discussions.
But ICANN is about scaling, and if scaling the Internet
isn't an appropriate topic for IETF discussions, I wonder
what is.
I, for one, will not further pollute the IETF list with this
>contribution to the thread. (I'll spare NANOG too.)
______________________________________________________________________
>Matt Crawford
Ronda
ronda@panix.com
Netizens: On the History and Impact
of Usenet and the Internet
http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/
in print edition ISBN 0-8186-7706-6
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:00:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Ronda Hauben <ronda@panix.com>
Subject: [netz] Re: [IFWP] Re: Effective meetings, past and future
"William X. Walsh" <william@dso.net> writing:
> 12-Mar-99 Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:
> In message <XFMail.990312114846.william@dso.net>, "William X. Walsh" writes:
>
>> She exists. And she makes some very important points.
>I don't agree that her points are that important, but nonetheless, lets assume
>they are for this purpose.
>If we are having a meeting to decide if our company should open up into the
>market in Country X, should we permit someone to have the floor at such a
>meeting to only argue that we shouldn't market our product at all? The
>decision to market the product had already been made, and nothing at this
>meeting could change that. This meeting is not the place to make that
>argument, this meeting was for the narrowling defined purpose of deciding
>whether to market the product in a particular area.
The parallel here is in fact what Elaine Kamarck said at the
meeting, and she is a former staffer to VP Gore and said that
she was told by the Dean of the Kennedy School of Government to
come to the meeting.
h
She has been active in government and in government policy.
And her presentation was that what was being done was entirely
inappropriate. YET she wasn't cut off or the microphone cut out
on her, nor should it have been.
It was entirely appropriate what she had said and what I was saying
in response to her talk.
And it was entirely inappropriate that what she said was *not*
treated with the utmost seriousness by the Chair and by
the panel and instead that there was an attack on me as the
way to attack what she had said.
.
Clearly ICANN cannot tolerate any criticism or honestly look into
the nature of its root structure because it is built on a
house of cards.
So the attack on me was to deflect the attention from the critique
that needs to be made of it and to instead try to scapegoat
as a tactic.
>The meeting had a set of parameters of what the meeting's purpose and topic
>was. Ronda's statements were outside the scope of those parameters and
>purpose, and as such was not germaine to the topic at hand. I think they were
>quite generous in the tolerance they showed in letting her present her comments
even in the limited fashion they did.
The meeting had invited Elaine Kamarck to speak and she had
made the criticism and had been allowed to make it.
So it is clear that my statement was *not* outside any
parameters but only an effort to divert from any honest
discussion of the real issues that the U.S. government should
be focusing on to determine what is an appropriate and sufficiently
protective structure for essential functions of the Internet.
>William X. Walsh <william@dso.net>
Ronda
ronda@panix.com
Netizens: On the History and Impact
of Usenet and the Internet
http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/
in print edition ISBN 0-8186-7706-6
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:02:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Ronda Hauben <ronda@panix.com>
Subject: Re: [netz] ICANN breaking what is not broken
>From owner-netizens@columbia.edu Fri Mar 12 16:44:23 1999
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From: "P.A. Gantt" <pgantt@icx.net>
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Subject: Re: [netz] ICANN breaking what is not broken
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"P.A. Gantt" <pgantt@icx.net> wrote:
>I think the subject line says it all.
>Mind if I borrow it for another fight? <grin>
Borrow away :-) :-)
However, I just found some interesting posts from 1996
by Postel and a few other folks that said that they
were afraid of the problem that they didn't have a
clear line of authority for IANA - but that seemed
to have been concocted as a problem.
However, I will post what I found as soon as I get the
chance and see what folks see about it.
In any case, it seems the real problem is that the
Internet is scaling and they needed to scale how
IANA functioned, but that is *NOT* the problem
that ICANN is taking up. It is preventing the
scaling of IANA and instead taking it all backwards
to secret decisions and hidden agendas, etc.
Ronda
Netizens: On the History and Impact
of Usenet and the Internet
http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/
in print edition ISBN 0-8186-7706-6
------------------------------
End of Netizens-Digest V1 #286
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