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Netizens-Digest Volume 1 Number 193
Netizens-Digest Tuesday, October 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 193
Netizens Association Discussion List Digest
In this issue:
[netz] Re: IFWP list postings
[netz] getting RFCs
Re: [netz] Benton 10/23/98: Constitutional Convention?
Re: [netz] Benton 10/23/98: Constitutional Convention?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:00:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Greg Skinner <gds@best.com>
Subject: [netz] Re: IFWP list postings
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95qL.981026085428.4545A-100000@bonjour.cc.columbia.edu>
lgd1@columbia.edu wrote:
>Hello Everyone: In reply to Jim Fleming I say the following: The best
>way to fight against the privatization of the Internet is by doing what
>Ronda is doing, which is fight it. It is appalling that she hasn't
>received more support, in spite of being a very important fight.
>Ronda is fighting a brave and somewhat lonely battle against the
>fat cats and to me the least all of us who share her feelings
>is support her in the "Good Fight". You just don't give up fighting
>and say "there's nothing she or we can do to change it", if our cause
>is noble, righteous and pro-people, pro-little guy, then I think it
>should be winnable, if we give it the support it deserves.
With all due respect, I think Ronda would get more cooperation and
support for her views if she acknowledged the views of people who
have been on the 'net for far longer than she has, and who have
contributed significant amounts of personal time (not just time spent
working for their employers) to developing and supporting the 'net.
Ronda's research of the early ARPAnet, Internet, and Usenet, while
commendable, does not tell the full story of all of the events that
shaped the evolution of what we call the Internet today. In fact,
there are aspects of the Internet's evolution that Ronda does not
address, which are (in my opinion) *crucial* to understanding how we
got to this point and why.
I would like to offer the following RFCs for your perusal:
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1167.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1168.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1192.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1259.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1359.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1498.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1527.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1669.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1687.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1746.txt
http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1917.txt
These offer commentary on a number of issues, including:
* access to the Internet for commercial e-mail services
* commercialization/privatization of the Internet
* acceptable use policy (AUP) for organizations that connect to the
Internet
* IPng (IP next generation) concerns from the private sector
* IPv4 address (re)allocation policies
>The corporations are not invincible. They can be stopped when we
>the people unite in the fight. They are not infallible. It seems
>to me the least we can do, instead of giving up and telling Ronda
>"she will not succeed", is give her support and try to get her
>support from everywhere, including the international community.
It's my opinion that when people say things to Ronda such as "you
won't succeed" it is because they recognize that what we are seeing
now is part of a process that was started several years ago and has
had significant support and cooperation from the US government. It's
also my opinion that when this process was begun, the type of
objection that Ronda has raised might have had much more effect. I do
not say this to try to discourage Ronda from her efforts. However, I
think Ronda might have more success if she tries to work with the
other groups to achieve some sort of compromise.
I could be totally wrong, however, and it may be the case that there
are significantly large groups of Internet users who feel so
threatened by privatization that they will pull out of the 'net if it
continues to go down the path of operation that is fueled by
commercial dollars. This would be disastrous to the 'net as a whole.
However, from what I have seen so far, most Internet users are not
aware of these issues, and even if they were, they lack the technical
knowledge to understand the full ramifications of them. This is not
said to belittle any individuals; it is an acknowledgement that some
nearly 30 years of work have gone into the development of the 'net as
it is today, and even the most sophisticated of Internet users cannot
possibly amass 30 years of knowledge into a few months of time,
sufficient that they could vote from a fully informed perspective on
the issues that are now faced. I also think we do not have 30 years
to spend figuring out how to do commercialization/privatization
"right" (whatever that might mean).
I'd also like to offer for perspective the book SELLING RADIO by Susan
Smulyan. This book chronicles the developments that led to the
Federal Communications Act of 1934, that established commercial radio
(and later TV). I have seen several parallels between those
developments and the ones I am reading about on these forums where
commercialization/privatization is debated.
- --gregbo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:07:52 -0400
From: kerryo@ns.sympatico.ca (Kerry Miller)
Subject: [netz] getting RFCs
The soul of the Internet:
- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
To: kerryo@ns.sympatico.ca (Kerry Miller)
Subject: Re: getting rfcs
From: RFC-SERVER@ISI.EDU (RFC-INFO Server)
Send reply to: RFC-INFO@ISI.EDU (RFC-INFO Service)
Date sent: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:51:43 -0800 (PST)
*------------------------------- REQUEST #1 ---------------------------------*
help: ways_to_get_rfcs
*------------------------------- RFC-INFO RESPONSE #1 -----------------------*
Where and how to get new RFCs
=============================
RFCs may be obtained via EMAIL or FTP from many RFC Repositories. The
Primary Repositories will have the RFC available when it is first
announced, as will many Secondary Repositories. Some Secondary
Repositories may take a few days to make available the most recent
RFCs.
Many of these repositories also now have World Wide Web servers. Try
the following URL as a starting point:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/
Primary Repositories:
RFCs can be obtained via FTP from NIS.NSF.NET, NISC.JVNC.NET,
FTP.ISI.EDU, WUARCHIVE.WUSTL.EDU, SRC.DOC.IC.AC.UK, FTP.NCREN.NET,
FTP.SESQUI.NET, FTP.NIC.IT, FTP.IMAG.FR, or WWW.NORMOS.ORG.
1. NIS.NSF.NET
To obtain RFCs from NIS.NSF.NET via FTP, login with username
"anonymous" and password "name@host.domain"; then connect to the
directory of RFCs with cd /internet/documents/rfc. The file name is
of the form rfcnnnn.txt (where "nnnn" refers to the RFC number).
For sites without FTP capability, electronic mail query is available
from NIS.NSF.NET. Address the request to NIS-INFO@NIS.NSF.NET and
leave the subject field of the message blank. The first text line of
the message must be "send rfcnnnn.txt" with nnnn the RFC number.
contact: rfc-mgr@merit.edu
2. NISC.JVNC.NET
RFCs can also be obtained via FTP from NISC.JVNC.NET, with the
pathname rfc/rfcNNNN.txt (where "NNNN" refers to the number of the
RFC). An index can be obtained with the pathname rfc/rfc-index.txt
JvNCnet also provides a mail service for those sites which cannot use
FTP. Address the request to "SENDRFC@NISC.JVNC.NET" and in the
"Subject:" field of the message indicate the RFC number, as in
"Subject: rfcNNNN" (where NNNN is the RFC number). Please note that
RFCs whose numbers are less than 1000 need not place a leading "0".
(For example, RFC932 is fine.) For a complete index to the RFC
library, enter "rfc-index" in the "Subject:" field, as in "Subject:
rfc-index". No text in the body of the message is needed.
contact: rfc-admin@nisc.jvnc.net
3. FTP.ISI.EDU
RFCs can be obtained via FTP from FTP.ISI.EDU, with the pathname
in-notes/rfcnnnn.txt (where "nnnn" refers to the number of the RFC).
Login with FTP username "anonymous" and password "name@host.domain".
RFCs can also be obtained via electronic mail from ISI.EDU by using
the RFC-INFO service. Address the request to "rfc-info@isi.edu" with
a message body of:
Retrieve: RFC
Doc-ID: RFCnnnn
(Where "nnnn" refers to the number of the RFC (always use 4 digits -
the DOC-ID of RFC 822 is "RFC0822")). The RFC-INFO@ISI.EDU server
provides other ways of selecting RFCs based on keywords and such; for
more information send a message to "rfc-info@isi.edu" with the message
body "help: help".
contact: RFC-Manager@ISI.EDU
4. WUARCHIVE.WUSTL.EDU
RFCs can also be obtained via FTP from WUARCHIVE.WUSTL.EDU, with the
pathname info/rfc/rfcnnnn.txt.Z (where "nnnn" refers to the number of the
RFC and "Z" indicates that the document is in compressed form).
At WUARCHIVE.WUSTL.EDU the RFCs are in an "archive" file system and
various archives can be mounted as part of an NFS file system.
Please contact Chris Myers (chris@wugate.wustl.edu) if you want to
mount this file system in your NFS.
WUArchive now keeps RFC's and STD's under
ftp://wuarchive.wustl.edu./doc/
or http://wuarchive.wustl.edu./doc/
contact: chris@wugate.wustl.edu
5. SRC.DOC.IC.AC.UK
RFCs can be obtained via FTP from SRC.DOC.IC.AC.UK with the pathname
rfc/rfcnnnn.txt.gz or rfc/rfcnnnn.ps.gz (where "nnnn" refers to the
number of the RFC). Login with FTP username "anonymous" and password
"your-email-address". To obtain the RFC Index, use the pathname
rfc/rfc-index.txt.gz. (The trailing .gz indicates that the document is
in compressed form.)
SRC.DOC.IC.AC.UK also provides an automatic mail service for those
sites in the UK which cannot use FTP. Address the request to
info-server@doc.ic.ac.uk with a Subject: line of "wanted" and a
message body of:
request sources
topic path rfc/rfcnnnn.txt.gz
request end
(Where "nnnn" refers to the number of the RFC.) Multiple requests may
be included in the same message by giving multiple "topic path"
commands on separate lines. To request the RFC Index, the command
should read: topic path rfc/rfc-index.txt.gz
They are also available by HTTP in http://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/
The archive is available using NIFTP and the ISO FTAM system.
contact: ukuug-soft@doc.ic.ac.uk
6. FTP.NCREN.NET
To obtain RFCs from FTP.NCREN.NET via FTP, login with username
"anonymous" and your internet e-mail address as password. The RFCs
can be found in the directory /rfc, with file names of the form:
rfcNNNN.txt or rfcNNNN.ps where NNNN refers to the RFC number.
This repository is also accessible via WAIS and the Internet Gopher.
contact: rfc-mgr@ncren.net
7. FTP.SESQUI.NET
RFCs can be obtained via FTP from FTP.SESQUI.NET, with the pathname
pub/rfc/rfcnnnn.xxx (where "nnnn" refers to the number of the RFC and
xxx indicates the document form, txt for ASCII and ps for Postscript).
At FTP.SESQUI.NET the RFCs are in an "archive" file system and
various archives can be mounted as part of an NFS file system.
Please contact RFC-maintainer (rfc-maint@sesqui.net) if you want to
mount this file system in your NFS.
contact: rfc-maint@sesqui.net
8. FTP.NIC.IT
RFCs can be obtained from the ftp.nic.it FTP archive with the pathname
rfc/rfcnnnn.txt (where "nnnn" refers to the number of the RFC). Login
with FTP, username "anonymous" and password "name@host.domain".
The summary of ways to get RFC from the Italian Network Information
Center is the following:
Via ftp: ftp.nic.it directory rfc
Via WWW: http://www.nic.it/mirrors/rfc
Via e-mail: send a message to listserv@nic.it whose body
contains "get RFC/rfc<number>.[txt,ps]".
For receiving a full list of the existing RFCs include
in the body the command "index RFC/rfc".
Contact: D.Vannozzi@cnuce.cnr.it
9. FTP.IMAG.FR
RFCs can be obtained via FTP from ftp.imag.fr with the pathname
/pub/archive/IETF/rfc/rfcnnnn.txt (where "nnnn" refers to the number
of the RFC).
Login with FTP username "anonymous" and password "your-email-address".
To obtain the RFC Index, use the pathname
/pub/archive/IETF/rfc/rfc-index.txt
Internet drafts & other IETF related documents are also mirrored in
the /pub/archive/IETF directory.
Contact: rfc-adm@imag.fr
10. WWW.NORMOS.ORG
RFCs, STD, BCP, FYI, RTR, IEN, Internet-Drafts, RIPE and other
internet engineering documents can be found at http://www.normos.org
and ftp://ftp.normos.org.
The rfcs are available as:
http://www.normos.org/ietf/rfc/rfcXXXX.txt
ftp://ftp.normos.org/ietf/rfc/rfcXXXX.txt
STD,BCP,FYI,RTR,IEN documents are available as:
http://www.normos.org/ietf/[std,bcp,fyi,rtr,ien]/[std,bcp,fyi,rtr,ien]XXXX.txt
ftp://ftp.normos.org/ietf/[std,bcp,fyi,rtr,ien]/[std,bcp,fyi,rtr,ien]XXXX.txt
Internet-drafts are available as:
http://www.normos.org/ietf/internet-drafts/draft-....txt
ftp://ftp.normos.org/ietf/internet-drafts/draft-....txt
Full-text search and database queries are available from the web
interface.
Please send questions, comments, suggestions to info@normos.org.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Secondary Repositories:
Australia and Pacific Rim
- -------------------------
Site: munnari
Contact: Robert Elz <kre@cs.mu.OZ.AU>
Host: munnari.oz.au
Directory: rfc
rfc's in compressed format rfcNNNN.Z
postscript rfc's rfcNNNN.ps.Z
Site: The Programmers' Society
University of Technology, Sydney
Contact: ftp@progsoc.uts.edu.au
Host: ftp.progsoc.uts.edu.au
Directory: rfc (or std).
Both are stored uncompressed.
Denmark
- -------
Site: University of Copenhagen
Host: ftp.denet.dk
Directory: rfc
Finland
- -------
Site: FUNET
Host: nic.funet.fi
Directory: index/RFC
Directory: /pub/netinfo/rfc
Notes: RFCs in compressed format. Also provides
email access by sending mail to
archive-server@nic.funet.fi.
France
- ------
Site: Centre d'Informatique Scientifique et Medicale
(CISM)
Contact: ftpmaint@univ-lyon1.fr
Host: ftp.univ-lyon1.fr
Directories: pub/rfc/* Classified by hundreds
pub/mirrors/rfc Mirror of Internic
Notes: Files compressed with gzip. Online
decompression done by the FTP server.
France
- ------
Site: Institut National de la Recherche en
Informatique et Automatique (INRIA)
Address: info-server@inria.fr
Notes: RFCs are available via email to the above
address. Info Server manager is Mireille
Yamajako (yamajako@inria.fr).
Germany
- -------
Site: EUnet Germany
Host: ftp.Germany.EU.net
Directory: pub/documents/rfc
Netherlands
- -----------
Site: EUnet
Host: mcsun.eu.net
Directory: rfc
Notes: RFCs in compressed format.
Norway
- ------
Host: ugle.unit.no
Directory: pub/rfc
Romania
- -------
Site: SunSITE Romania at the Politehnica University
of Bucharest
Contact: space@sunsite.pub.ro
Host: sunsite.pub.ro/pub/rfc
or via http:
sunsite.pub.ro/pub/mirrors/ds.internic.net
South Africa
- ------------
Site: The Internet Solution
Contact: ftp-admin@is.co.za
Host: ftp.is.co.za
Directory: internet/in-notes/rfc
Sweden
- ------
Host: sunic.sunet.se
Directory: rfc
Host: chalmers.se
Directory: rfc
United States
- -------------
Site: cerfnet
Contact: help@cerf.net
Host: nic.cerf.net
Directory: netinfo/rfc
Site: NASA NAIC
Contact: rfc-updates@naic.nasa.gov
Host: naic.nasa.gov
Directory: files/rfc
Site: NIC.DDN.MIL (DOD users only)
Contact: NIC@nic.ddn.mil
Host: NIC.DDN.MIL
Directory: rfc/rfcnnnn.txt
Note: DOD users only may obtain RFC's via FTP
from NIC.DDN.MIL. Internet users should NOT
use this source due to inadequate connectivity.
Site: uunet
Contact: James Revell <revell@uunet.uu.net>
Host: ftp.uu.net
Directory: inet/rfc
UUNET Archive
- -------------
UUNET archive, which includes the RFC's, various IETF documents,
and other information regarding the internet, is available to the
public via anonymous ftp (to ftp.uu.net) and anonymous uucp, and
will be available via an anonymous kermit server soon. Get the
file /archive/inet/ls-lR.Z for a listing of these documents.
Any site in the US running UUCP may call +1 900 GOT SRCS and use
the login "uucp". There is no password. The phone company will
bill you at $0.50 per minute for the call. The 900 number only
works from within the US.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Requests for special distribution of RFCs should be addressed to
either the author of the RFC in question or to RFC-Manager@ISI.EDU.
Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to
RFC-EDITOR@ISI.EDU. Please consult "Instructions to RFC Authors",
RFC 1543, for further information.
Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC distribution list should
be sent to RFC-REQUEST@ISI.EDU.
Users with .MIL addresses may send a request to MAJORDOMO@NIC.DDN.MIL
with an empty Subject: line and a message: subscribe rfc [your email
address].
Changes to this file "rfc-retrieval.txt" should be sent to
RFC-MANAGER@ISI.EDU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:13:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Ronda Hauben <ronda@panix.com>
Subject: Re: [netz] Benton 10/23/98: Constitutional Convention?
So we now have a brave new world where private corporations created
by governments, become the new government and the people are
totally disenfranchised.
And this is called a constitution :-(
>interest" in ICANN and its birth, he said. David Post, a law professor at
>Temple University who specializes in the legal issues of cyberspace,
>added: "If there is going to be this one entity that has a great deal of
>power, you'd have to say that the process of deciding how that power will
They don't mention that political power can't be exercised by
a private corporation - but for them this is the new world order
and we should all become as slaves to our beneficient corporate
masters who with the support of our beneficient government are
seizing the public assets and rights, can calling it:
>be exercised is constitution-making. This absolutely is a critical
>moment." (See draft rules at <http://www.iana.org/bylaws5.html>)
>[SOURCE: New York Times (CyberTimes),
>AUTHOR: Carl S. Kaplan <kaplanc@nytimes.com>]
> <http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/10/cyber/cyberlaw/23law.html>
Ronda
Welcome to the new world order of the all powerful corporate world
where the people can vote with their feet or in any case at least
be grateful to their new masters !
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:36:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Luis G de Quesada <lgd1@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [netz] Benton 10/23/98: Constitutional Convention?
On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Ronda Hauben wrote:
>
> So we now have a brave new world where private corporations created
> by governments, become the new government and the people are
> totally disenfranchised.
>
> And this is called a constitution :-(
>
> >interest" in ICANN and its birth, he said. David Post, a law professor at
> >Temple University who specializes in the legal issues of cyberspace,
> >added: "If there is going to be this one entity that has a great deal of
> >power, you'd have to say that the process of deciding how that power will
>
> They don't mention that political power can't be exercised by
> a private corporation - but for them this is the new world order
> and we should all become as slaves to our beneficient corporate
> masters who with the support of our beneficient government are
> seizing the public assets and rights, can calling it:
>
> >be exercised is constitution-making. This absolutely is a critical
> >moment." (See draft rules at <http://www.iana.org/bylaws5.html>)
> >[SOURCE: New York Times (CyberTimes),
> >AUTHOR: Carl S. Kaplan <kaplanc@nytimes.com>]
> > <http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/10/cyber/cyberlaw/23law.html>
>
>
> Ronda
>
> Welcome to the new world order of the all powerful corporate world
> where the people can vote with their feet or in any case at least
> be grateful to their new masters !
>
>
>
Hello Ronda: You hit the nail right on the head. This "Corporate Brave
New World has all kinds of "goodies" in store for us. More capricious
and greed oriented unemployment for starters (we've all read about
how they are constantly relocating their "plants" from one country
to the other, causing economic devastation in their path. Once
they privatize the Internet, it will gradually become a place
for a chosen few, just like everything corporate. The average
person, those of us who can't afford their fees and prices will
be left out of it, sooner or later. I vividly remember the time
when Ford and Chevrolet were called the "poor man's cars", now
they are nothing more than overpriced cars for the wealthy.
Good luck in your fight. I am 100% behind you, as a Christian
and a human being!
Lou D.>
>
>
------------------------------
End of Netizens-Digest V1 #193
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