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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 596
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #596
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Friday, 1 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 596
Re: Quake Monsters made easy
Re: Jetpack
Bit 4 again...
Re: Jetpack
Quake: PAK format
DOOM executables
Re: Bit 4 again...
Re: Doom 2 performance with wads
Re: Naming Flats
Re: ADMINISTRIVIA: On/Off topic ruling
on doom performance
Re: Quake.
Quake console commands
Re: PAK format
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Brian K. Martin" <brian@phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:39:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Quake Monsters made easy
>
> On Wednesday, February 28, 1996 11:40 AM, zw wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok, I'm going to (tentatively) claim the title of the 1st person to
> write a program that edit's Quake! :)
> >>
> >
> >There is quake.editing news group for this. I think this mail list
> >should not handle quake since it is completely different. Also
> >claims like these really annoy me. I have seen about 3 or 4 editors
> >so far. The best being qube.exe. Also there are modified levels with
> >all the monsters (phil.bsp). Just make sure you do your research before
> >you make a fool of yourself.
>
> This sort of reply is mean-spirited and petty. You should do *your*
> research: it's already been announced in this mailing list that the
> QUAKE-editing mailing list isn't ready yet and that QUAKE tidbits will be
> tolerated until such time as it is.
>
> You tolerate dozens of useless messages regarding a trivial and academic
> point of how many thousands of imps can be stacked on top of each other,
> but get annoyed when someone announces completion of a project they've been
> working on that is of benefit and interest to a great many people. So what
> if he wasn't the first?
>
OK OK OK, I told the dude I was sorry. Now I publicly apologize.
I still don't think I said anything bad about the guy though.
Hope the best for his utility and all..
later
zw
------------------------------
From: Damien.Wellman@Narrows.Kendra.Com (Damien Wellman)
Date: 28 Feb 96 00:07:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Jetpack
:: From: Joel Huenink To: Damien Wellman Subj: Re: Jetpack ::
> Here is a question for all of you: Can one get ONE projectile to do two
> separate things with Dehacked? I am trying to get rockets (I may change this
> to the BFG projectile instead) to both lift the player using the Archvile
> lift AND make the rocket heal the player by 10% to counteract the damage
> caused by the Archvile lift. So far, I have made the rocket heal damage OR use
> the lift, but not both. Is there a way for it to do both things at once?
> ---
JH> Try Mike Gummelts insane weapons patch it has a health booster that
JH> heals you while at the same time lifts you into the air.
No FTP access. Can't get files attached to messages. Sucks. Is fun talking in
incomplete sentences. :-)
But seriously, from what I've heard of Mike's patch, it is quite a bit unlike
mine. Mine is not meant to boost health that much, and the speed of the jetpack
projectile is set so it pushes you forward, and not to the east like Mike's
patch. However, if I could get my hands on the patch, I might be able to
at least get a start on things.
- ---
# TLX v4.00 # "I happen to know a great deal about a lot of things."
- --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
- --
|Fidonet: Damien Wellman 1:262/31
|Internet: Damien.Wellman@narrows.kendra.com
|
| Kendra Communications - FTS <=> Internet Gateway
| When Fido's all ya got, make the best of it.....
| Via-COPLINK 1:343/304 (206)397-6023 Everett WA
------------------------------
From: Damien.Wellman@Narrows.Kendra.Com (Damien Wellman)
Date: 28 Feb 96 00:12:28 -0800
Subject: Bit 4 again...
:: From: Eskinews!aol.com!lummoxjr To: Damien Wellman Subj: Bit 4 again... ::
[deletia]
Es> How many of those 30 people are running Doom I? With you and Greg
Es> Lewis as the only exceptions, I only heard from Doom II users claiming
Es> successful results.
Es> This whole thing goes back to the Fun With DeHackEd text file, which
Es> lists a shootable rockets patch. Someone added in that the patch
Es> occasionally locked up- now we know why. At least as far as projectiles
Es> are concerned (although I'll grant BFG hits are an exception), bit 4
Es> off and bit 2 on don't mix. I think the same thing might be going on
Es> still. I've worked a lot with your patch, the exact one you sent me,
Es> and I've tried to get it to run. A few alterations were more stable
[deletia]
I think the whole matter boils down to this: In Doom, gettable projectiles
are unstable. In Doom II, they are not. That's all that matters. Since the
EXEs of Doom I and II are *not* quite as similar as you'd think (The Doom II
EXE must include extra code to handle the new monsters, items, weapons, and so
on) this does not surprise me in the least. In short: Don't run gettable
projectiles patches under Doom. Why they crash is irrelevant. Gettable
projectiles do NOT crash under Doom II. Why they don't is, again, irrelevant.
It really serves no purpose to figure you why these patches do/don't work -
all that matters is that they do/don't. Sorry to sound so repetitive, but
it seems it's the only way I can be heardover the flamethrowing... :)
... "They've worked themself into a state of mild concern." -- Servo
- ---
* TLX v4.00 *
- --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
- --
|Fidonet: Damien Wellman 1:262/31
|Internet: Damien.Wellman@narrows.kendra.com
|
| Kendra Communications - FTS <=> Internet Gateway
| When Fido's all ya got, make the best of it.....
| Via-COPLINK 1:343/304 (206)397-6023 Everett WA
------------------------------
From: Damien.Wellman@Narrows.Kendra.Com (Damien Wellman)
Date: 28 Feb 96 21:27:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Jetpack
:: From: Michael Gummelt To: Damien Wellman Subj: Re: Jetpack ::
MG> Damien,
MG> Funny you should ask this, the exact process you are talking about has
MG> already been done with the plasma gun in Insane Weapons. It's the
MG> health booster which heals you and boosts you. It even has new
MG> graphics. If you just want the boost, no health boost (aside from
MG> compensating for the archvile lift damage), you're out of luck. The
MG> first 20 archvile lifts do less damage than any succeeding ones- don't
MG> ask me why. Also, you cannot control the direction of the lift- you
MG> will always be lifted and pushed eastward (once your running momentum
MG> us lost.) Check out Insane Weapons 1. I'll attach it on a private
MG> e-mail for you. Be sure to read the insane.txt file thoroughly first.
Allow me to detail just HOW I made the jetpack. First, give the rocket a
speed of -1, and switch off the "No Gravity" bit. On the frame table,
speed up the rocket launcher slightly (I do it by changing the firing frame's
duration from 12 to 2), and give the rocket explosion frame the Archvile lift
code pointer. In this fashion, the eastward drift does NOT effect anything -
you get pushed forward from the rocket's speed of -1. The speed up allows one
to stay in the air for a sustained length of time. The disadvantages: Archvile
damage (duh), and to change direction, one must land. The rocket effectively
becomes disabled as a weapon unless the enemy is RIGHT behind you, and it eats
up ammo BIG time unless you change the maximum number of rockets and the
number of rockets gotten per ammo item. This patch is fairly small, so if
anyone would like to get it, I can post it directly to the list.
(Oh, yes. I've gotten your patch. Haven't unzipped it yet, but the gateway
I get my mail from split it up into 100+ messages... and if anything that big
is sent through again, they promise to castrate you with a block of C-4. <eg>)
- ---
# TLX v4.00 # "Meanwhile, at the superimposed rocket..." -- Tom Servo
- --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
- --
|Fidonet: Damien Wellman 1:262/31
|Internet: Damien.Wellman@narrows.kendra.com
|
| Kendra Communications - FTS <=> Internet Gateway
| When Fido's all ya got, make the best of it.....
| Via-COPLINK 1:343/304 (206)397-6023 Everett WA
------------------------------
From: "Luc Cluitmans" <L.J.M.Cluitmans@ele.tue.nl>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:41:45 MET-2DST
Subject: Quake: PAK format
> >Quake is OFF TOPIC here, but limited mailings will be tolerated
> >UNTIL Quake-editing comes on-line next week. Trivial mailings
> >will still be subject to the knife, however excited a tone they
> >are written it ;)
>
> This clarification having been made, Is anyone interested in
> exchanging information concerning the format and data structures of
> the '.PAK' file?
Just because I haven't seen it yet, here follows the format for the
.PAK files:
A pak file is just an archive of other files. It's format closely
resembles the WAD format.
First LongWord: 'PACK' (signature)
Second LongWord: directory offset
Third LongWord: number of *bytes* in directory (not: number of
entries)
The format of the directory entries (64 bytes each) is:
typedef struct tagPakEntry
{
char filename[56];
long offset;
long bytecount;
} PakEntry;
Happy Hacking,
Luc.
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:06:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: DOOM executables
On 28 Feb 1996, Damien Wellman wrote:
> I think the whole matter boils down to this: In Doom, gettable projectiles
> are unstable. In Doom II, they are not. That's all that matters. Since the
> EXEs of Doom I and II are *not* quite as similar as you'd think (The Doom II
> EXE must include extra code to handle the new monsters, items, weapons, and so
> on) this does not surprise me in the least. In short: Don't run gettable
The v1.9 DOOM I and II executables are *identical*. It's just that
their execution paths will differ depending on whether one is using DOOM.WAD
or DOOM2.WAD.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:25:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Bit 4 again...
On 28 Feb 1996, Damien Wellman wrote:
> I think the whole matter boils down to this: In Doom, gettable projectiles
> are unstable. In Doom II, they are not. That's all that matters. Since the
I perhaps have evidence to the contrary. Last night while watching
Deep Space 9 I tried the imp clip patch some more as per Mike G's request.
Starting in E2M2 of DOOM I, the game froze every time (4) I caused a barrel
explosion next to an imp. I used a variety of weapons so it wasn't weapon
specific. I tried a few other levels hoping to find other cases of barrels
next to imps, but didn't find any. On E1M3 I was trying to kill an imp
with the BFG to get it out of my way: the game froze after the 3rd shot (the
shot hit my target imp plus another). So I fired up DOOM II using the same
hacked .EXE, again looking for barrels+imps. On MAP03 the game froze
when I hit a former commando with a rocket. I had shot several imps before
this though. So in summary, when using this patch I had the game eventually
lock up every time.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: jelson@l1.conline.com (Jim Elson)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:25:06 -0600
Subject: Re: Doom 2 performance with wads
At 01:20 AM 2/28/96 -0600, Joel Huenink wrote:
>Can anyone tell me if I add a huge wad file with sprites, flats sounds,
>music, maps nearly everything replaced does it affect performance of the
>game? I am designing the All_Hell TC on a P133 w/16MB but I would like
>to know if lower end users will be able to play it. (People with 486 and
>8 meg and less)
Yes and no.
I have not noticed any decrease in game play speed when sprites, sounds,
musics are replaced.
HOWEVER, textures and flats are whole other story.
They can make a BIG difference on 486 machines.
If you want to see just how much of a difference, check out the H2H wads
used in the IDC. In decreasing order of speed:
H2HMudCE.wad, H2HMudFE.wad, H2HMud01,02,03,DX.
In CE, the only new textures used are H2H doors.
In FE, there is a balance of id textures and H2H textures.
In the originals, 01,02,03,DX (1 level per wad), H2H textures are used
about 90% of the time.
(The combination of new textures on a large number of visible planes
can drastically slow down a 486.)
FLATS are even worse at slowing down game play than new textures.
One thing to remember is that on a P-133 you will not be able to notice
the slow down very well even though it might be highly noticeable on
a P-60, and a 486-66 and 4 Meg RAM might be reduced to snail speed.
One other thing: for DM levels, you have to be quite careful about
balancing new textures/flats. A bunch of us were playing a wad the
other day with new textures in it on an IPX network (slowest machine was
an 8 Meg NexGen-90) and we noticed some chop on it even though it
was perfectly smooth in solo mode on the NexGen 90.
You should also talk with Drake O'Brian about this too. For TNT, he was the
one who kept watch on the game speed for the team.
- --H2H
============================================================================
H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
Promo/Marketing Coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jelson@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
------------------------------
From: jelson@l1.conline.com (Jim Elson)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:29:00 -0600
Subject: Re: Naming Flats
At 01:20 AM 2/28/96 -0600,Joel Huenink wrote:
>I know a designer can create new textures with new names but can he
>create a new flat with a new name? How do you get the new flat into
>the level editor? I am using DCK.
It's not hard. For DCK to "see" a new flat, you have to put the flat
into your iwad. What I would recommend is that you copy doom2.wad/exe
to your DCK directory, make it point to that doom2.wad instead of the one
in your doom2 directory, and then use WinTex to insert the new flat.
Then you will be able to see it within DCK.
Perhaps DCK 3.0 has made it simpler, but I haven't checked it out yet.
- --H2H
============================================================================
H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
Promo/Marketing Coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jelson@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
------------------------------
From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <agulbra@troll.no>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:27:01 +0100
Subject: Re: ADMINISTRIVIA: On/Off topic ruling
BonesBro@aol.com
> The problem with this is that quake-editing is that these are vital topics,
> and this leaves us with nowhere to have a relatively private discussion of
> these. AOL has no killfile (gasp!), so wading through any non-moderated
> newgroup is not a viable option.
The doom-editing and quake-editing are hosted by NVG because I, on
behalf of NVG, _volunteered_ to do so, and because messrs. Benner,
Heaslip and Kreimeier are willing to do the (considerable) maintenance
work. NVG has no responsibility to provide anything aol.com users
need or want. Or users at any other domain except nvg.unit.no.
If the list policy is not to your liking, you are free to host and
maintain alternative lists.
- --Arnt (postmaster, nvg.unit.no)
------------------------------
From: "Drake O'Brien" <a13231@mindlink.bc.ca>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 11:13 PST
Subject: on doom performance
I e-mailed Joel Huenink with a bit of info we learned on the tnt:e project
about optimizing a large wad for play on lower end machines. Joel zinged
back a thanx along with a question we hadn't asked when making tnt:e, which
is whether merging all with the IWAD would optimize performance over
inflating the pwad by adding sprites & flats. I decided to do a test
because I had Gulph.wad all set up for it already. Gulph.wad plays REAL
choppy on my 486/33 w. 4MB ram. So what I did was inflate gulph.wad by
adding flats & sprites and made a short PWADLMP.LMP, then restored it and
merged it with the IWAD and made an IWADLMP.LMP, then I ran -timedemo with
each on each of INFLATED gulph and MERGED gulph. The result (don't laugh at
the poor performance of my comp!, at least it plays doom. It won't play hexen):
PWADLMP in INFLATED = 5.83fps
IWADLMP in INFLATED = 5.19fps
IWADLMP in MERGED = 3.95fps
PWADLMP in MERGED = 4.40fps
So in this case there's about a 30% increase in performance when you INFLATE
the pwad by adding sprites & flats over when you MERGE the pwad with the
IWAD. This result was totally unexpected to me, and my guess is that most
would be surprised. Later I reran the tests on -nomonsters, where I had a
bit more control over my actions (you should try beating a level at 3.95fps!):
PWADLMP2 in INFLATED = 8.61fps
IWADLMP2 in INFLATED = 8.82fps
IWADLMP2 in MERGED = 7.86fps
PWADLMP2 in MERGED = 7.68fps
So in this case there's a 12% increase in performance of the INFLATE method
over the MERGE method.
.
Of course these results are probably irrelevant to owners of p133's, but I
think Joel is right to at least try to take account of factors that increase
performance on lower end machines. And again, this's another bit of
abstract info for people gathering doom lore.
------------------------------
From: michael.hoenie@sharecity.com (MICHAEL HOENIE)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 07:54:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Quake.
Running QUAKE in default mode (MAP1 TEST or TEST MAP1) was successful.
Although many of you here are complaining about the sounds and what
not, realize: We have WAITED for this to come out since 1994! It was
PROMISED to us by 1995... So here it is. And if you read the FAQ a few
weeks ago, you'll understand that the code has some problems - hense ID
released this copy early for testing.
I have a 2MB 64-bit PCI video running on a DX4/120 and QUAKE ran very
slowly... Has anyone noticed this problem?
I am impressed with the 3d texture rendering. Objects are truly 3d,
they no longer "always-face-you" as they did before. Impressive that
you can jump through the hole in the floor, and still have the ceiling
above you that other players can walk on. This is a MUST in today's 3D
engines (like NUKEM 3d's last level - VERY IMPRESSIVE).
The kinks SHALL be worked out. Let's get working on that .PAK file!
- -+- 'Doomin since Dec 20th, 1993.
* michael.hoenie@sharecity.com << Michael S. Hoenie >>
------------------------------
From: Mark Hughes <kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:08:52 -0800
Subject: Quake console commands
I've done a bit of testing, and I've got a first pass at documentation of the
console commands. I've placed the document at
"http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/quake_commands.html". Enjoy.
-Mark Hughes
"Oh, I *HATE* that turtle now..."
------------------------------
From: "Michael G. Clawson" <clawsonm@nsc2.gordon.army.mil>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 17:27:36 EST
Subject: Re: PAK format
>> This clarification having been made, Is anyone interested in
>> exchanging information concerning the format and data structures of
>> the '.PAK' file?
>Just because I haven't seen it yet, here follows the format for
>the ..PAK files:
Thanks, but I made it that far on my own. I'm looking for a little
bit more detail. What about the individual parts, especially the
'.bsp' sections?
- -----------------------------
Michael G. Clawson
clawsonm@nsc2.gordon.army.mil
clawsonm@gordon-nsc1.army.mil
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #596
**********************************
