Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 584
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #584
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 21 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 584
Defensiveness Alert
Re: so try to answer this, gurus
DEU source??
The Day I Played Quake
light effects
Adminsitrivia: Doom-editing died briefly today
Re: so try to answer this, gurus
Gettable projectiles update
Re: The Day I Played Quake
Gettable projectiles failure in DOOM I
Re: Thing limits- A programmer's perspective...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 22:15:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Defensiveness Alert
This speaks for itself.
On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Drake O'Brien wrote:
> >Clips may not be shootable, but the Doom engine may still have to
> >check every single one of those things to see if they're shootable
> >or not.
>
> Oh oh, ego alert!
>
> Hey, you don't absolutely have to try to answer the question. Your guesses
> aren't covering the ground asked for in the subject header. After all, now
> the question becomes "then why doesn't the game freeze when the player
> passes over the clump of clips, as doom has to check every single one to see
> if it's an obstacle or not". Now, don't answer again until you can come up
> with something a guru might say. We don't want this thread to turn into
> another interminable bore.
>
> Half the reason why I asked the question is because there's been a bit of
> sneering at a certain idea, eg. "This is total rubbish (flame not intended),
> despite a lot of people
> supporting its logic. Doom is an advanced game, programmed to make the best..."
> and "The array idea seemed silly to me too, Id would have made a limit to the
> number of things spawned if they knew it would crash at too many.", whereas
> this clump of clips thing doesn't obviously fit in to the 'Id is God'
> scenario. If the array idea is rubbish and silly because it isn't advanced
> enough for you, how do you reconcile that with "the Doom engine may still
> have to check every single one of those things to see if they're shootable
> or not"? As for the array idea, it at least attempts to explain the
> observable facts.
>
>
Chill out and drop the thread. We aren't attacking you, just disagreeing.
Don't waste bandwidth with pointless drivel that is a result of YOUR bruised
ego.
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 22:23:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: so try to answer this, gurus
On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Drake O'Brien wrote:
> with something a guru might say. We don't want this thread to turn into
> another interminable bore.
Agreed, I've called (practically begged) for the end of this thread,
but it just won't die. There are much more important findings, like
LummoxJR's new exploding ammo!
> number of things spawned if they knew it would crash at too many.", whereas
> this clump of clips thing doesn't obviously fit in to the 'Id is God'
> scenario. If the array idea is rubbish and silly because it isn't advanced
> enough for you, how do you reconcile that with "the Doom engine may still
> have to check every single one of those things to see if they're shootable
> or not"? As for the array idea, it at least attempts to explain the
> observable facts.
This is completely reactionary and illogical. I never claimed Id was
God, or that they were great programmers. Don't hold me responsible for
other people's remarks.
In answer to the question you aksed about why Doom crashes if it has to
check if what you're shooting at is shootable, but why doesn't it crash
if you try to walk through all of the ammo clips. Simple: When firing,
the engine would have to check all the things in front of you INSTANTLY,
but when walking, it only has to check the thing(s) you're walking
over - maybe 10 at max. Not all 1000 or so. Try making a level with
1000 ammo clips in one spot, then walk over it.
Mike Gummelt
(Really don't understand over-reactionary people)
------------------------------
From: arnottsd@latcs1.cs.latrobe.edu.au
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 16:29:45 +1100 (AEDT)
Subject: DEU source??
Hello guys,
Where is the quickest and best place to get the DEU source for
Windows or DOS, in particular Raphael Q, can you give me any
earlier, not as complex versions of the code as I wish to
make a world editor for my simple engine based on Doom style
world.
Thanks,
.... __ooOOoo__ ....
Shane Arnott E-Mail: sda@tpg.tpg.oz.au WWW: http://compsoc.lat.oz.au/~shane
The Preston Group - World Leaders in Simulation and Scheduling Software
488 Victoria Street Ph: +61 3 9428 8899
Richmond Melbourne Australia 3121 Fax: +61 3 9427 1969
------------------------------
From: Mackey McCandlish <fsm3m@virginia.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 01:16:15 -0500
Subject: The Day I Played Quake
Cut me some slack for this one itty-bitty post. Its not every day I get
to make one like this.
Yesterday at 6pm the 8 of us were at some mexican place ordering
from some
dorky waiter who kept reminding us that he had just signed in. We had spent the
night before playing tons of DOOM2 and some warcraft2/hexen/C&C on 10 networked
machines at one of the 8's apartments. Mass quantities of soda were consumed,
mostly by I. It was hard to contain our excitement because we knew that in less
than two hours we'd be playing Quake. For the record.. the 8 of us were myself,
Polish, Wendigo, Monolith, Natas, Hardball, Anoat, and DoomDeity snuck in.
All of us in one car (ok, Natas and Anoat arrived separetly and
didn't eat
with us) we arrived at id at 7:30 or so. A couple of us had to go to the
bathroom
and were scourging the bottom floor for one. We gave up and were about to
board the
elevator when Dave Taylor showed up, took names, shook hands etc. Road up.
Arrived
at id.
I took several pictures while I was there, one of which demonstrates
quite
well that they're remodelling the offices. When we first arrived in the room
several people were sitting at their pcs doing this or that and we all sorta
stopped and gazed for a moment (*click* goes the cameras). Finally we walk
up to
the first machine we see running Quake. Some id guy (took awhile to attach the
names to the faces) said "welcome to your new world". No kiddin. They
quickly got
us on machines and had personal RC files written for us (your own
default.cfg sorta
that can be loaded at the command line or in the game at any time).
I was playing on Tim Willits machine I believe and was all set up quick
enough. Pretty soon I was running around (not really running, you move at
7/9ths
the speed as in DOOM) and pickin up boxes and weapons. Naturally the box of
Nail
gun ammo said NiN on the box (all of which were true 3d objects of course).
Monolith and Wendigo soon joined the game and I knocked them around quite a
bit.
One thing you learn very quickly is that (at least in beginner dmatch mode,
which
was all they had at the moment) you basically don't miss if you have ok aim.
The
weapons auto aim incredibly well and in close range its rare that you miss
with any
of the weapons. For all you keyboarders out there, that may be great, but
for those
of us who want our rockets to go where we tell them and not at some weird
angle,
well, it was uncool. However the actual controls, the same number as DOOM
(because
you're always running and you don't have a use button) were very intuitive and
about what I expected. Looking around with the mouse was a cinch and asside
from
the slightly slower running everything was just dandy.
Next we had like an 8 player dmatch going, but the game wasn't crazy
about
that and was prone to crashes (seemed stable enough at 6, so we broke into two
teams). For the next 2 hours we just played level after level, from about 5
or so,
and eventually Romero joined in (to the other game). We quickly picked up a
healthy
respect for lava (believe me you will too, especially if you play American's
god
forsaken lava level) and also for armor, which is actually a lot more effective
than health. Depending on what color armor you have, the armor absorbes
different
quantities of damage. When armor is absorbing damage instead of your flesh, the
screen goes white instead of red.
A lot of the levels were very 3d. You'd see somebody run below you and you'd
jump
off the platform and blast them from behind with your super shotgun, lifting
them
off the ground and often into a wonderful Extreme Death post (like when they go
diving into the pavement).
When an object hadn't respawned yet it'd leave a little yellow bead to
remind you where it was, a great indicator that somebody was just there.
Tons of
other little details were also present, like how the projectiles all left
little
trails of smoke or whatever. The blood was also impressive. You might be
swimming
around minding your own business when all of a sudden you hear some extreme
chaos
above you and streams of blood (not to mention chunks of body parts) comes
swirling
through the water. The water itself had a very convincing swirling effect and
general discoloration. The grenades and nails had very convincing sound effects
while the rockets blew up in an impressive pixel shatter. No silly bitmaps
to be
found (other than the torches, which are to be replaced before the alpha's
public
release I believe). The characters themselves were quite detailed, as were
their
expressions when you examined their discarded heads. The monsters were no less
detailed and had a lot of personality, tho I didn't test the game out in single
player. The weapons were sorta like DOOM's and Heretic's. You still had DOOM
style
weapons but each one had a separate powered up version. Like you'd have your
normal
kickass shotgun (that you'd start with on spawn!) but also a red SSG you
could get.
You'd have a normal nail gun and a super one that'd fire 2 for each shot. A
grenade
launcher (like a kick ass version of duke's pipe bomb) and a rocket launcher
super
version. They're adding a lightning gun and lighning chain gun..
Eventually Romero came over to our (Monolith, HardBall, DoomDeity
and I, I
think) game. For a long while, we were getting totally stomped. Seems to me
like
most of the time I'd see him and couple rockets later I'd be gone, although it
didn't help that he knew all the damn secrets (armor is soooo helpful). Romero
always used bright blue (you can customize your shirt or pants clothes colors
during the game or from your RC file) so at least we knew who to go after.
After he
kicked us around awhile they set up a little Quake tournament.
It was to be one on one games, first to 20 on certain maps. I first
had to
play Natas I believe, don't even remember the 2nd person I had to play. Well
anyway
the game was slooow going because Quake as of now is altdeath only so you'd
hurt
the guy a bit, he'd stock up on ammo/health (too big a level for 2 player)
and then
fight you again fully fit. Eventually we were the only people left fighting
(all
the other people were done) so they moved us to a Quake version of Map01 of
DOOM2.
That moved a bit quicker but they dropped the win to first person to 10. I
won like
10 6, not sure, but it was a lot more interesting when you had an idea of
where the
other guy was. Next up I played monolith or Doomdeity on a LAVA level. You will
learn fear of lava, yes you will. Anyway he started off with a lead because
I kept
either killin myself or spawning near him. If you spawn near an armed
opponent with
no armor, you are just toast. Later on the same thing happened to him and I
gained
a lead. There was some mass suicide goin on (craziest screams accompany
that) so
they made the rule that first to 10 or you lose at -10. Eventually I won
that one
too.
The final round was between Wendigo and I, coincidentally the two
virginias
that had flown down to test. We were playing another LAVA LEVEL. Augh.
Pretty soon
it was -1 to -5, my lead. It was pretty slow going and at about 0 to -3 they
decided first to 5 or lose at -5. Wendigo had a knack for getting the damn
health
and armor and I was eating rockets.. and a good half hour lately he had won
5 to 2.
He is now the proud owner of an id mouse pad and supposedly will be getting a
t-shirt in the mail.
After all this Quaking the id guys got us together in a big circle
for some
q/a like what we were expecting, what disappointed us, what surprised us,
etc. Some
important points we raised were that running slower was pretty hard to get
used to,
altdeath was a drag, auto- aiming was way too effective, and the environments
weren't very dynamic. Their reply, mostly by American, were: The running was
slowed
down so that you could actually follow people because it was too easy to get
away
in DOOM. Also since there was no 45 degree angle bug in Quake, it was sorta
weird
not going faster when strafe running. They noted that changing the speed was
really
easy and demonstrated it for us (something like just type maxspeed 500 to go at
doom speed). American explained that although altdeath would be the default,
adding
other dm modes like old deathmatch would be as easy as commenting out one
line.
hen we asked why they don't just go ahead and add that so-easy-to-add mode,
they
said it was because they didn't want to spend the next year doing tons of
little
tweens. Ah well. As for the auto aiming, Romero explained that Quake will
have 3
levels of deathmatch. Beginner, novice, and expert. We were basically
playing in
beginner and that expert mode would let us play without the extreme auto
aiming,
which was really killing a lot of the technique, bad. Don't get me wrong
tho, it'll
be great for all the keyboarders that couldn't hit a mouser if he was standing
right in front of him (cause he'd circle strafe behind him of course). As for
dynamic levels, they described a bunch of things that they're implementing now
alled entities (and they had some examples to show), such as sideways lifts,
drop
out floors, really cool doors, and they're thinking about making huge rotating
levels where you end up standing on the ceiling. Cool stuff.
During the q/a Dave noticed there were a ton of people on #quake on
efnet
irc expecting Quake's release (somehow people attached the sunday-at-8pm
testing
time to the release of Quake) so American got on and asked people if they were
ready to get the demo (of course he was just jokin and soon quit the
channel). When
we were done with the q/a Dave, American, and Tim were ready to herd us out but
Romero said he'd take us out when he left (yeah!). So him and John Cash stuck
around. At first Romero was just showin us the baddies (I took a photo of
the group
of us lookin at the screen and American, who was just leaving, happened to be
bending over pickin somethin up. "I know you didn't just take a picture of my
ass!!"). Then he showed us how editable the game was an such, and before
long one
by one we were joining into the game and having ourselves another
deathmatchathon
(from like 11pm to 2am). The monsters he showed us were really cool and evil
looking, complete with temporary sound effects (you know, giggles while they
slash
your throat, sorta queer laughs when ya shot them).
The game had a couple bugs, like players getting stuck on the walls.
In a
6+ player game the game'd soon crash afterwards, so you'd have to quickly type
"kill" and lose 2 frags to save the game. The swimming is still bein worked on,
like ya couldn't see people if they were just on the waters surface yet
(which made
the autoaiming all the more goofy.. they were still easy to hit!) and you
couldn't
swim like you'll soon be able to (you'll swim in the direction you're
pointing).
Those bugs and other minor ones are all that's slowin the alpha down as far
as I
can tell. Romero said it'd be about a week but American sorta laughed under his
breath.
Around 2:30 we found ourselves in the parkin lot talkin to Romero
about his
big ass Humvee and the trips he's had in it and his deflatable tired or
whatever.
He was taking up two handicap parkin spaces with it :). Overall it was a really
incredible night and in retrospect I really wish I was PLAYIN QUAKE RIGHT
NOW. But
I guess I'll have to wait awhile longer to play again (not to mention I need
a new
pc.. this p60 16ram just won't handle the game.. like DOOM didn't handle
well on a
low end 486). I didn't get to sleep until 5am so that sorta sucked (got lost
on the
way back to Doomdeity's aparetment) but if ya have to ask, yes it was worth the
$205 ticket to get there (tho I doubt I'll do it again for the shareware test
they'll probably have). Some last q/a I've been asked way too many times so
I'll
answer them here:
Why did you get picked to go to id? Because I was there when ddt was
askin
and I called him voice, got confirmation etc.
When will Quake alpha be out? Over a week.
Did it make any difference that the guys had no shadows? Absolutely
unnoticeable.
Could you kick heads around? Nope, no inventory either.
Here's the log of some interview chat I had.. perhaps reveals a few
more
insights.
Session Start: Mon Feb 19 18:27:44 1996
*** Now talking in #interview
*** DisLogger sets mode: +o _Avatar_
<DisLogger> Thanx.
<DisLogger> So you arrive to id Software HQ, see Quake running on the monitors,
and what are your first impressions?
<_Avatar_> it was a cool room. Like 20 computers in a huge room
<_Avatar_> running quake and quake ed
<_Avatar_> I took lots of pictures of the room
<_Avatar_> about 18
<DisLogger> Was Quake what you expected it to be? Did it live up to all the hype
thus far? Does it, as Romero has been quoted as saying, "Make DOOM look like
pong?"
<_Avatar_> Quake is different
<_Avatar_> It will take the experts awhile to get used to
<_Avatar_> but in the end it will be better
<DisLogger> Hey! If you can, digitize the pics... :)
<_Avatar_> I will for my page
<DisLogger> I heard that it was played with 6-8 people, notwithstanding that it
was still an alpha, how was the lag?
<_Avatar_> no lag on ipx
<_Avatar_> it was tcp/ip actually
<_Avatar_> you'd connect to another machine on the idnet
<DisLogger> So you didn't actually run tests over the internet for testing
purposes
(Everything was run on the internal idnet?)
<_Avatar_> I don't know if they've tested it over the net
<_Avatar_> but I think they have with rogue, which is on the same floor but
2 hops
away
<_Avatar_> JCash said they'd like at least 3 players at 14400 and 5 or so at
28800
<DisLogger> It goes without saying that id softwares games are legendary. How
were the people behind the code? Are they (to use the cliche term) "cool" ?
<_Avatar_> hahahaha
<_Avatar_> None of them were QUITE what I was expecting
<_Avatar_> like Dave was bigger with wild hair
<_Avatar_> American's hair is black now and he was pretty cool
<_Avatar_> hmm
<_Avatar_> lets see
<_Avatar_> carmack was pretty cool
<_Avatar_> but
<_Avatar_> naw lets talk about something besides the id personel
<_Avatar_> heheh
<DisLogger> I read earlier on in the day that there were a few bugs found as a
result of the tests? If you can recall, what were they, and do you feel, in your
opinion, it would delay the Alpha being released in the near future?
<_Avatar_> yeah bugs
<_Avatar_> they thought it'd take about a week to fix
<_Avatar_> when they're fixed it'll come out
<_Avatar_> no, Romero thought they would take a week to fix
<DisLogger> Romero was also heard saying that he wanted it out this week? Was
that true?
<_Avatar_> he wants it out when the bugs are gone
<_Avatar_> One major bug is that you can get stuck permantly in a wall
<_Avatar_> and then the game, if it has around 6 players, is likely to crash
<DisLogger> Ok, how about actuall game play, the sheer CARNAGE factor, did it
get you pumped up? Really get your adrenaline flowing? Describe the frags if you
can?
<_Avatar_> lots of carnage
<_Avatar_> frags are so much cooler
<_Avatar_> you kill a guy and he dives into death
<_Avatar_> or something totally different
<_Avatar_> and has different death sounds
<_Avatar_> like this funny "glub" one
<_Avatar_> sorta like doh
<DisLogger> So it sounds like, ala Duke3D (GASP!), there are humerous aspects
to the game?
<_Avatar_> humerous but in different ways
<_Avatar_> doom put in little gags and stuff
<_Avatar_> in quake, you laugh cause the guy's head shot 20 feet into the air
<DisLogger> Haha
<_Avatar_> One really cool part is that anything can be modified in the game
that
you'd normally do in setup
<_Avatar_> like you can change all your keys in the game
<_Avatar_> or your colors
<DisLogger> Describe the "immersion". Is the environment completely immersive?
If you've seen the unreal demos, how does it compare?
<_Avatar_> unreal demo? hahaha (Unreal ain't as far along).
<DisLogger> So I take it that Quake simply blows all first person games to
all hell?
Nothing compares? It really is the best game on the planet right now?
<_Avatar_> Quake's hurdle will be getting people used to running slower
<_Avatar_> also, it will have 3 levels of deathmatch
<_Avatar_> beginner, novice, and expert
<_Avatar_> in beginner mode, which was all that was in at the time, the game
autoaims yer weapons like a biatch
<_Avatar_> you CAN'T miss with the shotgun unless you're totally blind
<_Avatar_> and the rockets lead by their force vector
<DisLogger> Is there a story behind Quake yet? The romero quote of "Space
Marine goes back in time... Maybe..." ?
<_Avatar_> Yes something like that
<_Avatar_> although he told me the story awhile back, he didn't say it to us
as a
group so I won't go into that
<DisLogger> How was the environment? The actual levels? Impressive? Levels
upon levels? Swimming, flying, climbing?
<_Avatar_> swimming is still being worked on
<_Avatar_> but it will be sorta like flying around in descent
<_Avatar_> wherever you look, you go that direction
<_Avatar_> In beginner death match (and since ya run a bit slower) it really was
totally different from doom.. a lot more looking around involved if ya really
wanted to get somebody on most of those levels
<DisLogger> How about the levels? The shadows? The lighting? The textures?
Overall "feel" of the game? Did they blow you away?
<_Avatar_> the lighting in some places kicked ass
<_Avatar_> and it was always really detailed
<_Avatar_> the textures were a bit bland
<_Avatar_> like rock an stuff
<_Avatar_> but there was a hill in one part
<DisLogger> A Hill?
<_Avatar_> yeah
<_Avatar_> like it can do hills
<_Avatar_> there was a hill in a castle sorta
<DisLogger> Compare the pace of gameplay with that of DOOM? Does it have the
ability for complete PURE FAST carnage with alot of players or is it more
strategic?
<_Avatar_> there's a lot more stuff gettin thrown around
<_Avatar_> like the nail gun shooting out just a chunk of nails all over the
place..
<_Avatar_> people getting knocked into the air by the shotgun
<_Avatar_> all of that kicked ass..
<DisLogger> Thank you very much for your time. I see alot of information on
#quake right now. I'll have a fun time tonight editing the logs... Hope to
frag yer
ass totally and completely in the near future :)
<_Avatar_> sure
Session Close: Mon Feb 19 19:05:48 1996
Note that all of this will be on my web page,
http://fermi.clas.virginia.edu/~fsm3m,
as soon as I get the photos back and scanned for it. Oh the day ended on a
great
note.. we finally finished a game (somebody got to 20 frags). That was me
with 20,
JCash with 11, and Romero with... 9! The other 3 in the game were below
that. See
ya!
-*Avatar*-
-*Avatar*-
------------------------------
From: "Drake O'Brien" <a13231@mindlink.bc.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 02:52 PST
Subject: light effects
I put LITEFX02.ZIP at alt.binaries.doom
I hope it arrived...
Litefx02.zip shows a method for extending the 'light striking wall from no
visible source' effect so there's a lot more control. For those who can
figure it out just from my explanation, here's the .txt file:
LITEFX02.WAD shows a way to control the application of 'light
striking from no visible source'.
So far I've only figured out how to apply this variation of the effect
to the middle textures of 2-sided linedefs.
The demo level shows the printing "voodoo" pulsating at 255<-->0 on a wall
otherwise lit to 120. Using this technique we can apply any number of
lighting 'specials' at any light values at once to what appears to be
the same middle texture slot of a 2-sided linedef, and of course
the technique can be combined with switches.
This zip contains BEFORE.WAD, which shows litefx02.wad just before I
overlayed the linedef containing "voodoo". Once the overlay is done you
can't undo, so keep a backup (and like all special effects that use
'illegal' techniques, apply the effect as a finishing touch).
In before.wad you'll see a central octagonal area containing a
rectangle, and off to oneside is an isolate 2-sided linedef with a
1st sidedef pointing at a separate (off the map) sector with the
special properties (pulsating 255<-->0).
The essence of the technique is to order linedef index numbers.
Firstly, it seems doom draws textures on overlayed linedefs from
larger-->smaller linedef index #. So the index number of the isolate
linedef to be overlayed must be smaller than the index # of the linedef
it'll be overlayed on, else the texture it contains will be covered.
You can generalize on this when overlaying multiple linedefs.
Secondly, you want all linedefs of the overlay clump, the base lines and
the overlayed lines, to have LARGER index #'s than any of the surrounding
linedefs (in this case, the linedefs composing the inner octagon).
Otherwise you'll get a bleeding of the effect into the surrounding area -
the litefx won't be 'infinitely thin'.
Thirdly, overlay one vertex at a time. Merge vertices but DO NOT merge
or split the linedefs (so, disable the automatic functions of your editor-
I know DETH is capable of this).
Fourthly, you MUST use the proper nodebuild. The DMapEdit4.12 nodebuild
does the trick. Also, WARM with the -n=a switch works:
WARMDOS -z -b -n=a litefx02.wad
When using the -n=a switch with WARM you also need to throw
the -b (blockmap) and the -z or -r (reject, zeroed or full) switches.
You can also do any kind of litefx, combined with any other special effects,
by using scripts with ZENNODE.
Drake O'Brien
a13231@mindlink.net
------------------------------
From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <agulbra@troll.no>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 21:37:47 +0100
Subject: Adminsitrivia: Doom-editing died briefly today
As some of you know by now, I (one of the postmasters at nvg.unit.no)
run a bounce processor on doom-editing. Anything that bounces and is
recognized is translated into an unsubscribe. Once bounce and you're
out.
Today, it tried to unsubscribe ten people at once, and triggered a bug
in majordomo (the program which processes doom-editing-request mail)
which wiped out the entire list. Uh-oh.
I have restored the list as it was some hours ago.
- --Arnt
------------------------------
From: "Michael G. Clawson" <clawsonm@nsc2.gordon.army.mil>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 17:10:23 EST
Subject: Re: so try to answer this, gurus
In reply to 19 Feb message from doom-editing@nvg.unit.no:
>Now, don't answer again until you can come up with something a guru
>might say. We don't want this thread to turn into another
>interminable bore.
Too late.
- -----------------------------
Michael G. Clawson
clawsonm@nsc2.gordon.army.mil
clawsonm@gordon-nsc1.army.mil
------------------------------
From: LummoxJR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:50:54 -0500
Subject: Gettable projectiles update
I've finally tried the gettable projectiles DHE patch in Doom II, and here's
my result.
As far as I've tested it in Doom II, it works. This does not come as a shock
to me; in fact, with the exceptions of Mike Gummelt and Greg Lewis, I have
yet to hear from another person for whom it worked in Doom I.
Trying a variant of the patch in Doom I, I managed to keep it running for a
minute or two, which was a big improvement over instant lock-up. Still, it
did eventually crash, as did a shootable projectiles patch I was told about
and had to test (I expected it to crash right away, but it remained stable
for quite a long time).
Thus, my conclusion: The patch is unstable in Doom I, with system-specific
results. Anything that turns off bit 4 is unusable there.
Lummox JR
the analyst
------------------------------
From: arnottsd@latcs1.cs.latrobe.edu.au
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 09:57:46 +1100 (AEDT)
Subject: Re: The Day I Played Quake
I know this is not quake talk, but surely this is on everyones
minds. So sorry, but it must be said.
After reading Avatars post, and jumping for joy about the
non-medievil crap I got the feeling it was a *small* disapointment, I
for one am glad to hear about the weapons, but I am foming at the
mouth waiting for this godamn release. If it ain't great there
gonna be some pierced off peoples...
So anyway a note to those lucky bastards of whom got a squiz at
quake:
On an editting note did the C-code to edit quake relate also
to the peripheral utils like level and sprite editors
(err..model editors, I'm gonna have to buy 3D studio now)?
Also how far behind will the specs be, or will this be only when
the games finished?
And was the alpha running on DOS or NeXT steppers?
Thanks,
.... __ooOOoo__ ....
Shane Arnott E-Mail: sda@tpg.tpg.oz.au WWW: http://compsoc.lat.oz.au/~shane
The Preston Group - World Leaders in Simulation and Scheduling Software
488 Victoria Street Ph: +61 3 9428 8899
Richmond Melbourne Australia 3121 Fax: +61 3 9427 1969
------------------------------
From: LummoxJR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 18:39:10 -0500
Subject: Gettable projectiles failure in DOOM I
> I tried the imp-clip patch in conjunction with the super weapon patch
>(that comes with DHE 3.0a). I changed the ammo clip to a soul sphere but
>otherwise used the patch as is. In DOOM I v1.9, the game froze (I had to
>mash the reset button) after a few minutes, right after an imp dropped
>another soul sphere.
AHA!
My guess, Mike, is that your system makes it possible to sustain the game for
quite a few minutes, while others' systems may lock up immediately or after a
little while. Judging by the fact that you seem to use Doom II a lot, I'd
venture a guess that neither you nor Greg Lewis tested the patch long enough
to find out if it was a failure. Sometimes, it does take a while- it seems to
have a little to do with frame duration, though that's just a vague guess and
probably isn't right.
Well, having wrapped up that discussion once and for all (I sure hope!), I
think we can all safely agree that Mike's gettable projectiles patch is fine-
or at least appears to be- in Doom II, but not in Doom I.
Lummox JR
I knew I was right
------------------------------
From: LummoxJR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 18:38:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Thing limits- A programmer's perspective...
In a message dated 96-02-19 10:34:08 EST, you write:
> I don't have such a high opinion of id's programming abilities,
>but that's a different issue. Contrary to what you say, DOOM is filled with
>limits: max 30 moving lifts, max 64 animated textures, max 64 viewable
>sprites, max 256 viewable linedefs, max 128 viewable flats surfaces, max
>10 useable deathmatch starts, etc. Violating some of these causes a crash,
>others just wreak havoc with the view during play. So I can easily
>believe there is a limit on the number of things created during play.
>There may be more than one limit depending on the thing type. During a
>long deathmatch game, older dead player bodies disappear; there could be
>limit on the number of bodies so older body slots are used for newer
>ones. Someone else has mentioned a limit on the number of lost souls. So
>the bottom line to me is that the imp-clip patch may cause DOOM to hit some
>kind of limit, it's just totally unclear at this point.
Yes, but most of those limits can be easily handled by just ignoring cases
beyond the 128 or 256 or whatever. A thing limit would be far easier to
handle, and only the worst of programmers would not only put in a
fixed-length array, but forget to watch out for limit violations.
As I said, no matter what you may think of ID's programming, they can't be
THAT bad.
Lummox JR
though far be it from me to defend them...
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #584
**********************************
