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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 580
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #580
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Saturday, 17 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 580
Re: Windows95 Editing
Quake Demo????
Re:
Re: Sector Below another Sector???
Re: things & z-malloc
WEEKLY REMINDER : Beginner's Questions
Re: things & z-malloc
Re: Sector Below another Sector???
Re: Sector Tags 666 and 667
Re: things & z-malloc
Re: Sector Below another Sector???
Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
Sector Tags 666 and 667
Re: things & z-malloc
Re: Quake Demo????
Re: Sector Below another Sector???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: JeffPatch@gnn.com (Jeff Patch)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:23:28
Subject: Re: Windows95 Editing
May ask why that sentance was so long???
------------------------------
From: JeffPatch@gnn.com (Jeff Patch)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:22:04
Subject: Quake Demo????
Rumor has it that the long awaited Quake Demo is coming out
Firday!!!!!!!
Has anyone heard that rumor confirmed by ID????
On id's web page (http://www.idsoftware.com)
they said a playable demo will be out soon!!!
cool!
Jeff Patch
i'm not
------------------------------
From: Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 23:29:07 GMT
Subject: Re:
In your message dated Thursday 15, February 1996 you wrote :
>To: Edward W. Jay From: Rudy
>
>>>Are there currently any editors made specifically for Windows '95? Most of
>>>the ones I see are for Dos and require me to enter the Dos-Prompt from
>>>Windows '95.
>
> I don't know personally. WinDEU only covers windows 3.1 or Windows NT
>or 32. WinTEX only covers 3.1. Most of the people who create these
>utilities are running on prett basic machines. You probably won't find an
>editor for Windows 95 for a while. I do know that an editor for Quake,
>which covers graphics and level editing) will come out for windows 95.
>Well....at least that's what the screen shot looks like.
The quake editor that id use is for NeXT, but there are some Win '95 editors
(dunno why, Stick to dos myself!).. Try DoomE2, EgoED DoomCad et al..
> -Rudy from SLaKSoFT
>
>
- ---
** "Question deserving answers, |X| Is there heaven? Is there hell? **
** Answers deserving action, |X| Is that tuna melt I smell? Come on.. **
** What am I of the populi? |X| -Primus "Hellbound 17 1/2" **
** I am but a fraction.. |X|Jim Wraith'-_-'jim@kildare.demon.co.uk**
------------------------------
From: Steven Towle <stevet3@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Sector Below another Sector???
Jeff Patch wrote:
>
> The rumor on rec.games.computer.doom.editing says you can actually
> have a sector below another sector if you use a teleport to get
> there.
> I read the "Tricks Of The DooM Programing Guru's" and that
> said it was IMPOSIBLE to make a sector below another sector.
>
> Please tell me that if I am right or wrong.
Yep, you're right, unfortunately. You can fake it pretty good, though.
Like I have a floor that will move up or down, depending where on the
level you are. There is a crossover point, one high, one low. The ceiling
is lowered/raised with the floor, and the sound is covered by having a
dummy one lowering/raising goodies/monsters. Also done for doors.
There is another way, but look in the docs for that.
- -Steve
| Steve Towle, D1M, D1SG |
| stevet3@ix.netcom.com (Dipstick on iFrag) |
| Steve's Gaming HQ: http://www.geopages.com/TimesSquare/3206 |
| Interactive sigs: "Insert quote here" |
------------------------------
From: "Drake O'Brien" <a13231@mindlink.bc.ca>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 19:15 PST
Subject: Re: things & z-malloc
Steve Towle said:
[begin quote block]
Drake O'Brien wrote:
> > re. the 'disproof of gettable..' thread, if I warp to map30 and iddqd
> eventually I'll crash with z-malloc. The number of creatures spawned at
> crash time is relatively few. This is the same kind of crash as any
> z-malloc crash from too much level infos and happens to me a bit sooner
> than to someone with more than 4MB RAM.
Well, I think that there is an item table created at startup, and then there
are x number of empty spaces for things that spawn onto the map (changes from
alive to dead, and dead to alive too?) If the list grows too big, it would
do a Win95 (ie: overwrite the program code in memory), and it crashes.
> I made a 2 sector level with a player 1 start and 5000 clips (copy and
> paste...). The level played but was slow. With 10000 clips I z-malloced
> out again. So it's narrowed down to between 5 and 10 K of clips ;)
I was going to ask if the person who let the imp on level 1 spawn 200 ammo
boxes before bombing out if he had 4MB of memory, or more. Still, 100 + 200
does not
equal 7500. :) So until someone proves me wrong, I'm right. ;)
(Putting on flame-reterardant coat as I type...)
[end quote block]
Ok, I just finished what has to be the most moronic experiment in doom
history. I found Mike's 'imps throw clips' gettable objects patch so I made
a rectangular level and lined up 20 imps exactly, scaled them down, copied
and pasted 'till there were 400 imps lined up, then scaled the line down so
the 400 were neatly in a row approx 512 pixels. Then I fired up doom and
proceeded to BFG the suckers. Each shot would produce exactly 1 clip from
each of the 400. After awhile it seemed that doom locked up, but that was
just game slowdown - at shot 18 it took 110 seconds between hitting control
and seeing the last bit of green, and it took about 4 minutes to warm up for
shot 19. Good thing I like reading. It took 10 minutes after 19 finished
before control reacted to shoot the 20th round, then 1/2 thru' the shot all
the clips vanished and there were just flickering imps there, the game
speeded up to normal & I could clip thru' the imps and the BFG had no effect
on them.
Hmm, I think I hit some kinda limit ;)
shot 19 = 7600 clips + 400 imps
So theorize that (hey, don't use this to draw any conclusions about my
personality!)
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:31:36 -0500
Subject: WEEKLY REMINDER : Beginner's Questions
Has it been a week already?
[Hint acknowledged :]
New subscribers to DOOM-Editing take heed...
===================================================================
This message is being posted at the request of the list's caretakers.
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please take a moment to read the short note that follows. It will
help to get you up to speed and, may save you some grief in the future.
====================================================================
FROM: the list caretaker; *** A REMINDER ***
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-= TeamTNT - Member =-
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:45:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: things & z-malloc
Hi all,
I have 16 MB of Ram and it still crashed about the 200 limit, so RAM
doesn't have too much to do with it- maybe conventional (base) mem is
used for the thing array.
> Well, I think that there is an item table created at startup, and then there
> are x number of empty spaces for things that spawn onto the map (changes from
> alive to dead, and dead to alive too?) If the list grows too big, it would
> do a Win95 (ie: overwrite the program code in memory), and it crashes.
> I was going to ask if the person who let the imp on level 1 spawn 200 ammo boxes
> before bombing out if he had 4MB of memory, or more. Still, 100 + 200 does not
> equal 7500. :) So until someone proves me wrong, I'm right. ;)
------------------------------
From: jh32322@ltec.net (Joel Huenink)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:26:15 -0600
Subject: Re: Sector Below another Sector???
>The rumor on rec.games.computer.doom.editing says you can actually
>have a sector below another sector if you use a teleport to get
>there.
> I read the "Tricks Of The DooM Programing Guru's" and that
>said it was IMPOSIBLE to make a sector below another sector.
>
>
The book is right. you cannot have a sector above or below another sector.
You can't even have a monster over another monster. you can simulate a two
story building with the use of teleportals but you appear in a different
area in our flat 2d world. (sucks)
Sigh,
Joel Huenink
ready for Quake
enjoying dn3d(a true 3d game)
------------------------------
From: LoCo LikE a PoLLo! <loco@aurora.nscee.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 21:03:06 -0800
Subject: Re: Sector Tags 666 and 667
> Hi. I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere the tag 666 only
> can be used with Revenants. I didn't read anything about 667 though. Did
> you use Revenants? If you didn't, then I try it. Did you remember to make
~~~~~~~~~
I would like to correct this. I meant Mancubus. Later.
> the sector tags and then make the line tags the same? Anyway, later.
>
> On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, John Miezitis wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:51:37 +1100
> > From: John Miezitis <John.Miezitis@its.utas.edu.au>
> > To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> > Subject: Sector Tags 666 and 667
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am trying to design a Doom II level which uses some of the features from
> > Doom II MAP07 (using WinDEU 5.24). The ID level has some sectors (with tag
> > 666) which will lower when you have terminated all monsters in one area.
> > You then are met with a swarm of spiders and after swatting all of them
> > another sector (with tag 667) raises.
> >
> > I tried using the tags 666 and 667 but the sector would not move I was able
> > to use a switch to lower the sector so I guess the sector is Ok.
> >
> > I have looked in the handbook (1.2), the doom spec (1.6), the unofficial
> > doom spec and some other documents but could not find any discussion on
> > these special sector tags.
> >
> > Can anybody suggest what I might be doing wrong or better can point me to
> > some documentation re special sector tags and how they work.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Cheers.
> > -JohnM
> >
> > John B Miezitis, University of Tasmania, Information Technology Services.
> > Intl Ph: +61 02 207419, Email: John.Miezitis@its.utas.edu.au
> > Belgium man Belgium!!! - Z. Beeblebrox
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 00:10:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: things & z-malloc
> Ok, I just finished what has to be the most moronic experiment in doom
> history. I found Mike's 'imps throw clips' gettable objects patch so I made
> a rectangular level and lined up 20 imps exactly, scaled them down, copied
> and pasted 'till there were 400 imps lined up, then scaled the line down so
> the 400 were neatly in a row approx 512 pixels. Then I fired up doom and
> proceeded to BFG the suckers. Each shot would produce exactly 1 clip from
> each of the 400. After awhile it seemed that doom locked up, but that was
> just game slowdown - at shot 18 it took 110 seconds between hitting control
> and seeing the last bit of green, and it took about 4 minutes to warm up for
> shot 19. Good thing I like reading. It took 10 minutes after 19 finished
> before control reacted to shoot the 20th round, then 1/2 thru' the shot all
> the clips vanished and there were just flickering imps there, the game
> speeded up to normal & I could clip thru' the imps and the BFG had no effect
> on them.
>
> Hmm, I think I hit some kinda limit ;)
>
> shot 19 = 7600 clips + 400 imps
>
One problem, a BFG shot will only hit the nearest 20 people. So you only
got 20 ammo clips per BFG shot- that's only 400 clips+400 imps. But still
an interesting experiment. So maybe the reason the ammo clip patch crashed
on 200 was because all 200 ammo clips were in the same exact spot? Who
knows, and who cares? the whole discussion is made moot by the simple
modification of making the ammo clips last only 30 or 50 so 200 ammo clips
couldn't possibly (within a sanely designed level) accumulate.
Mike
------------------------------
From: LoCo LikE a PoLLo! <loco@aurora.nscee.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 21:18:57 -0800
Subject: Re: Sector Below another Sector???
> The rumor on rec.games.computer.doom.editing says you can actually
> have a sector below another sector if you use a teleport to get
> there.
> I read the "Tricks Of The DooM Programing Guru's" and that
> said it was IMPOSIBLE to make a sector below another sector.
I don't know about this, but you can have a door on top of a sector. I
tried it once. It does work. Later.
------------------------------
From: Damien.Wellman@Narrows.Kendra.Com (Damien Wellman)
Date: 15 Feb 96 01:19:03 -0800
Subject: Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
:: From: "brian K. Martin" To: Damien Wellman Subj: Re: DISproof of gettable projectile ::
"KM> I've followed this thread since the beginning. I have to say that
"KM> Mike, you sure won't admit that that patch is unstable will you?
"KM> Any patch that is unstable is due to the limitations of the doom
"KM> engine, No?
"KM> I'm not flaming here, I just think it's funny that doom crashes with
"KM> the patch (sometimes) and doesn't with out it. But still the patch
"KM> is fine, now it's the doom engine which is buggy. :)
Actually, Mike is quite correct. Doom's engine has several limitations...
for example, if a level is too big, Doom will crash when trying to load it.
While nothing is wrong with the actual level, it's just too damned big. The
patch is the same way, in all probability. While nothing is _technically_
wrong with it, Doom can only have so many objects in one place at a time.
However, this could be worked around by placing a time limit on the ammo
clips... make them last for a few seconds, then disappear, thereby insureing
that enough never appear to crash Doom.
- ---
# TLX v4.00 # "Unstable? Unstable!!!??? UNSTABLE!!!!?????"
- --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]
- --
|Fidonet: Damien Wellman 1:262/31
|Internet: Damien.Wellman@narrows.kendra.com
|
| Kendra Communications - FTS <=> Internet Gateway
| When Fido's all ya got, make the best of it.....
| Via-COPLINK 1:343/304 (206)397-6021 Everett WA
------------------------------
From: Damien.Wellman@Narrows.Kendra.Com (Damien Wellman)
Date: 15 Feb 96 01:23:15 -0800
Subject: Sector Tags 666 and 667
:: From: John Miezitis To: Damien Wellman Subj: Sector Tags 666 and 667 ::
JM> I am trying to design a Doom II level which uses some of the features
JM> from Doom II MAP07 (using WinDEU 5.24). The ID level has some sectors
JM> (with tag 666) which will lower when you have terminated all monsters
JM> in one area. You then are met with a swarm of spiders and after
JM> swatting all of them another sector (with tag 667) raises.
JM> I tried using the tags 666 and 667 but the sector would not move I was
JM> able to use a switch to lower the sector so I guess the sector is Ok.
JM> I have looked in the handbook (1.2), the doom spec (1.6), the
JM> unofficial doom spec and some other documents but could not find any
JM> discussion on these special sector tags.
JM> Can anybody suggest what I might be doing wrong or better can point me
JM> to some documentation re special sector tags and how they work.
This is a simple problem. The 666 and 667 tags are from some "magic" code
pointers in the Doom code. Normally, 666 activates when all the Commander
Keens in a level are killed. The exception is MAP07, which lowers when you
kill all the Mancubi. AFAIK, 667 only works on MAP07, which activates when you
kill all the baby spiders.
- ---
# TLX v4.00 # MSDOS is a boot sector virus.
- --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]
- --
|Fidonet: Damien Wellman 1:262/31
|Internet: Damien.Wellman@narrows.kendra.com
|
| Kendra Communications - FTS <=> Internet Gateway
| When Fido's all ya got, make the best of it.....
| Via-COPLINK 1:343/304 (206)397-6021 Everett WA
------------------------------
From: "Drake O'Brien" <a13231@mindlink.bc.ca>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 03:35 PST
Subject: Re: things & z-malloc
Gummelt:
>One problem, a BFG shot will only hit the
>nearest 20 people. So you only
>got 20 ammo clips per BFG shot- that's only 400 clips+400 imps.
Ah, I see, I didn't look carefully enough. 20 hits more or less. I picked
up 35 clips on a shot I tested (not the 400 I originally figured on).
>But still
>an interesting experiment. So maybe the reason the ammo clip patch crashed
>on 200 was because all 200 ammo clips were in the same exact spot? Who knows,
>and who cares? the whole discussion is made moot by the simple
>modification of making the ammo clips last only 30 or 50 so 200 ammo clips
>couldn't possibly (within a sanely designed level) accumulate.
Well, contrary to appearance this list isn't about announcing every little
variation in one particular wad-build. When you've finished your patch you
should upload it to cdrom.com and those interested will pick it up. Steven
Towle's observation was interesting in itself. I'm not technically minded
enough to judge if this is correct, but he said:
>Well, I think that there is an item table created at startup, and then there
>are x number of empty spaces for things that spawn onto the map (changes from
>alive to dead, and dead to alive too?) If the list grows too big, it would
>do a Win95 (ie: overwrite the program code in memory), and it crashes.
and now that the calculation for my experiment is corrected it seems that
something like that is probably correct. This is interesting as a purely
abstract fact. After a year reading this list I've found that different
people with different interests in doom have different uses for such facts -
the 'coders' have an entirely different potential than me. It's interesting
that when the spawnable objects limit is reached at 400 or so the player
goes into noclipping mode. I've never seen this before.
By the way, using copy and paste I put together a wad with 4000 overlayed
imps. It played slow but alright until I shot the imp/thing - then doom froze.
------------------------------
From: Pandion-Knight <s337239@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 23:21:55 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Subject: Re: Quake Demo????
On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Jeff Patch wrote:
> Rumor has it that the long awaited Quake Demo is coming out
> Firday!!!!!!!
> Has anyone heard that rumor confirmed by ID????
>
> On id's web page (http://www.idsoftware.com)
> they said a playable demo will be out soon!!!
>
>
>
> cool!
>
> Jeff Patch
>
#quake, BabyJesus (american.mcgee@idguana.idsoftware.com) has stated that
the quake demo will be out within two weeks. That was last week..
I dont have the actual proof but I WAS on #quake when he was on, and I
did ask him exactly that.. and thats what he said. From all accounts the
demo will be deathmatch only, no monsters.
The actual email adress, i may have screwed up.. i think its idguana.. or
perhaps idiguana. Hehe. Just get on effnet IRc, join #quake, and /ctcp
Quakejnky list, and look for all the logs of channel discussions. One of
them will have the hard documentation.
Hope I could help...
Christopher Voutsis
Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
(quake.. mm..I formed a pact with a doom nut last year to go 48 hours
straight quake when it came out.. now it looks like i have to pay up !! :)
------------------------------
From: Mark Harrison <harrison@lclark.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:19:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Sector Below another Sector???
On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Steven Towle wrote:
> Jeff Patch wrote:
> >
> > The rumor on rec.games.computer.doom.editing says you can actually
> > have a sector below another sector if you use a teleport to get
> > there.
> > I read the "Tricks Of The DooM Programing Guru's" and that
> > said it was IMPOSIBLE to make a sector below another sector.
>
> Yep, you're right, unfortunately. You can fake it pretty good, though.
> Like I have a floor that will move up or down, depending where on the
> level you are. There is a crossover point, one high, one low. The ceiling
> is lowered/raised with the floor, and the sound is covered by having a
> dummy one lowering/raising goodies/monsters. Also done for doors.
> There is another way, but look in the docs for that.
I did the same thing last year. For an example find widowmkr.wad.
There's two different sections of the level where I use this technique.
Mark Harrison
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #580
**********************************
