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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 569
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #569
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 7 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 569
Re: Holo-marines
Re: Respawning Barrels alternate method
Re: Archvile respawning
Re: Respawning Barrels alternate method
Legality
Gettable projectiles (ammodept.deh)
Re: Legality
TNT sales
Re: TNT sales
Graphics editing in earlier Raven games
TNT sales
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:31:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Holo-marines
Hi all,
Just thought I'd mention that the Holo-Marine is in Insane 3, and it
lasts longer than the one in DN3D. Plus, you can set up to 25! Imagine
coming into a room where there were 26 marines, and only ONE of them was
real! Now THAT's paranoia! And, by the way, they ARE stationary.
Also, I finished the shareware version of DN3D. Incredible. needless to
say, I've already ordered the full version, but I won't expect it for a
while. Perhaps when the editors for it come out I'll toy with that too.
BTW: Anyone know how to get to the secret 6th level in the shareware?
Insane 3 will be out within a week or two (had some setbacks with graphics).
Mike Gummelt
On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, Michael Roy wrote:
> Phil Brown wrote:
> > I prefer the idea of a stationary marine, with a moving one you'd have all
> > the problems of making it look like a player was controlling it,
> > which might fool monsters, but not other deathmatchers. Much better
> > IMHO, is to have a static one, then players could easily _pretend_ to
> > be a fake one.
>
> that sounds like one killer idea! talk about making the death matchers of
> the world paranoid!!!
>
> cool,cool,cool.
>
> --
> Michael Roy
> -Mother Goose to some-
> Internet: roym@cadvision.com
> FIDOnet: 1:134/65
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:40:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Respawning Barrels alternate method
Matt,
I guess you missed my first post about this, and considering the odd
behaviour of the list, I wouldn't be surprised if most people did.
To refresh your memory, you said:
> Anyways, since you aren't actually picking up barrels (you are,
> basically, killing them), that second method is ruled out (unless you're
> the trickiest hacker in the universe).
Thanks!
> Now, for the first method...I
> dunno. The monsters that blow up and disappear when they die (lost soul
> and pain elemental) don't get respawned, so it may or may not be
> workable, as the barrels themselves also blow up and disappear. The
> third method may or may not be workable (you'd have to set a resurrection
> frame, as what's-his-name said). Lemme know if they work. I think in
> either case, you'd have to add a final, invisible `still body' frame for
> the barrel that loops back on itself, or whatever the `still body' frames
> of monsters do.
> Oh yeah, don't try making the death frames explode, pause, then
> come back into the swing of things. If the death frames cycle back on
> the regular frames, the darn thing goes indestructible.
>
> Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com
>
The way to do it is turn on the "can be picked up" bit. Then rename all
the Barrel and Barrel explosion graphics to some gettable object like the
chainsaw (CSAW). That way you won't get an error when you touch a barrel.
Of course, the first time you touch a barrel, you'll get the chainsaw.
But this will only happen if you HAVEN"T PICKED UP THE CHAINSAW YET.
An easy way around this is to put a chainsaw on the player's starting
spot so he will have it at the beginning of the level, no matter what!
So from now on, in DM, the barrels will respawn just like any other object.
I've tried it, and no crashes. The reason I say DM is because that's how
this discussion originally started. Someone had asked me if they could make
barrels respawn in DM for more interesting play (like sending one through
a teleporter as you shoot it). So this is the solution. It's the simplest
(really, just a few keystrokes in DeHackEd and some simple renameing in
Wintex) solution I've seen so far, and the only one that will work. Now
if you wanted to make them respawn in regular Doom 1 player (Nightmare),
that's a totally different matter. And if you wanted them to respawn anytime
(any difficulty level), you'd probably have to use Lee's archvile code
suggestion.
Mike
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:47:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Archvile respawning
> Will the archvile respawn already dead monsters which are placed in a
> room as dead monster objects? I'd like to have the player go through
> a room (which they later have to come back to) full of dead monsters,
> only to find that an archvile has been released after they exit to
> return to find a room full of living ones. Can I put dead monsters
> in to be respawned, or do I have to put live ones in, then kill them
> (with a crushing ceiling or something) before the player get there?
Actually, the best way to achieve this is to make the monsters look dead
as their initial frame, then as their first moving, give them a delay of
about 300 or 500. So they wake up when you first enter, but won't get
up for a while. So when you come back in, they'll be up! I've done
something like this in Insane 3. You enter a room full of dead bodies,
and after a pause, SOME of them start to get up and attack! But SOME
of the bodies really ARE dead. And if you "kill" them , they look dead,
but sometimes they'll get back up!
My patch (Insane 3) will be out in a week or so.
Mike Gummelt
------------------------------
From: "Some Call Me...Tim?" <john.jerow@yale.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 22:21:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Respawning Barrels alternate method
> --PICK-UPPABLE THINGS RESPAWN when you play a deathmatch game and use the
> -altdeath parameter. (And even then, not all of them--anyone remember
> which ones, and why?)
I'm not quite sure it's a "respawn" so much as replacement from the
- -altdeath parameter, but items such as the keys and guns, ammo, etc.
which are there at the start of the game are gettable by all the
players, potentially. Items discarded by monsters (shotguns by
sergeants, etc.) can only be picked up once.
,. '\'\ ,---.
Quiet, Pinky; I'm pondering. | \\ l\\l_ // | Err ... right,
_ _ | \\/ `/ `.| | Brain! Narf!
/~\\ \ //~\ | Y | | | Y |
| \\ \ // | | \| | |\ / | /
[ || || ] \ | o|o | > / /
] Y || || Y [ \___ \_--_ /_/__/
| \_|l,------.l |_/ | /.-\ (____) /--.\
| >' `< | `--(_______)----'
\ (/~`--____--'~\) / U// U / \
`-_>-__________-<_-' / \ / /|
/(_#(__)#_)\ ( .) / / ]
\___/__\___/ `.`' / [
/__`--'__\ |`-' |
/\(__,>-~~ __) | |___
/\ // \\( `--~~ ) _l | --:.
'\/ <^\ /^> | ` ) < \\
_\ >-__-</_ ,-\ ,-~~->. \ `:.___,/
(___\ /___) (____/ (____) `---'
------------------------------
From: Yugo Nakai <ynakai@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:16:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Legality
Let's face it: we live in a hyperlegalistic society, and that has
its pros and cons. One of the major problems with such a system is the fact
that laws simply cannot (and should not) cover every possible aspect of
human life, and our desire to apply them to every possible instance is
nothing more than oversimplification.
The fact is, it is counterproductive to debate the legality of all
the millions of possible Doom modifications. Making a lot of noise about it
will probably only encourage id and Apogee and all the other software
companies to put "clear" (read: iron fisted) restrictions on what can and
can't be done. Of course, that would not only stifle creativity but also
needlessly damage both the users and the software companies. The users
wouldn't get to do what they enjoy, and the software companies would lose
sales and product appeal. Who would benefit? The lawyers, of course.
The best thing to do for all parties concerned is to let the
ambiguity about legal issues remain vague and to simply use Common Sense.
The cardinal rule to follow is profitability: Don't charge for your
creations. The uproar over a certain group's intention to independently
sell their levels could have destroyed the Doom editing community because id
was almost forced to take drastic legal measures. Fortunately, id had the
wisdom and decency to settle the conflict peacefully -- but this kind of
thing must not be allowed to damage the vitality of this creative community.
Do not tempt fate.
As long as the petty legal issues are allowed to remain quiet, we
can continue to create our levels and patches and graphics and sounds and
share them with the world. Nobody will really care if one little hacker
throws a modified id texture into his little WAD or modifies an original
Doom level or two -- especially if it's free of charge, since it's not
worth all the legal expense. But if all the academic debate about legality
continues in order to feed the egos of a bunch of intellectuals, then
eventually someone -- software companies or the Internet-obsessed media --
will catch wind of the furor and make a big fuss over it. The only possible
result is trouble.
If you want to reply to this message, I urge you to reconsider.
Posting unproductive debates over all this legal mess can only make things
worse. Therefore, if you *really* want to voice your feelings, please send
them to me instead. My address is below.
Yugo Nakai
ynakai@midway.uchicago.edu
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:58:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Gettable projectiles (ammodept.deh)
Hi all,
To add some more fuel to the currently raging fire concerning the
bugginess or lack thereof of turning off bit #4 for projectiles, I loaded
up the ammodept.deh file that Michael posted and ran it. I started with
the Ultimate Doom exe, and shot and picked up the clips for quite some
time (like 30 minutes). I also loaded the patch and tested it in the
following versions of Doom: v1.666 (Doom 1), v1.666 (Doom 2), v1.7
(Doom 2), and v1.9 (Doom 1/2). In none of these cases did Doom crash or
display any abnormal behavior. So it appears that turning off bit 4 in
this particular patch does not cause any problems (that I noticed).
However, there are still some cautions... for example, turning off the
"can't be hit" bit and turning on the "shootable" bit is a sure recipe
for a crash. So there may be some other cause of this crashing problem
which we have not found. In any case, I have not had any problems with
bit #4 in the time I tested it.
Greg Lewis
------------------------------
From: jelson@conline.com (Jim Elson)
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 23:31:35 -0600
Subject: Re: Legality
At 03:16 PM 2/5/96 -0600, Yugo Nakai wrote:
> The best thing to do for all parties concerned is to let the
>ambiguity about legal issues remain vague and to simply use Common Sense.
>The cardinal rule to follow is profitability: Don't charge for your
>creations. The uproar over a certain group's intention to independently
>sell their levels could have destroyed the Doom editing community because id
>was almost forced to take drastic legal measures. Fortunately, id had the
>wisdom and decency to settle the conflict peacefully -- but this kind of
>thing must not be allowed to damage the vitality of this creative community.
>Do not tempt fate.
If you are alluding to TNT, you could not have gotten your facts more wrong.
Id contacted us the day before we were going to release TNT:E on the Net
as freeware.
ID said, "Don't release it as freeware. Let us look at it because we might
want to buy it and sell it as an id Software product."
Yugo, so if you were alluding to TNT, consider yourself corrected. On the
other hand, if are referring to another group, then please forgive my
misunderstanding since I have not been paying much attention to the
newsgroups lately.
- --H2HMud
============================================================================
H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
Promo/Marketing Coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jelson@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
------------------------------
From: "Brian K. Martin" <brian@phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:14:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: TNT sales
I was wondering If anyone from TNT would share any sales info
about the pwad set. I was wondering how much money the authors
actually got and how the sales are going?
zombywoof
http:\\www.phyast.pitt.edu\~brian
------------------------------
From: Lars Rye Jeppesen <mrdo@diku.dk>
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:05:48 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: TNT sales
>
>
> I was wondering If anyone from TNT would share any sales info
> about the pwad set. I was wondering how much money the authors
> actually got and how the sales are going?
>
> zombywoof
>
> http:\\www.phyast.pitt.edu\~brian
>
------------------------------
From: kmcgrath@natick-amed02.army.mil
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 10:43:24 -0500
Subject: Graphics editing in earlier Raven games
Has anyone heard of or had experience with editing some of the earlier
Raven games (e.g., Shadowcaster)? There are a number of interesting
enemies that could be modified as new sprites for Doom I/II if you could
access the individual graphics. There are also some clever weapons, such
as the shuriken, that permit unlimited intermediate range attack (it flies
out twenty or thirty feet, then returns to your hand). I have not looked
closely at the file format, but I doubt it's a .wad file, and this would
probably preclude the use of existing programs like WinTex. Has anyone
heard of other programs that could be used to extract graphics from
programs like this?
I'm prompted to write based on the current thread on DN3D hacking, but like
many others hope that most of the traffic be carried on through private
email. In fact, if people want they can send to me directly on this issue
so that no one on the list gets too ticked off.
Kevin McGrath
kmcgrath@natick-emh2.army.mil
------------------------------
From: matt.tagliaferri@pcohio.com (Matt Tagliaferri)
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 17:03:00 -0500
Subject: TNT sales
Another question: I'm assuming the TNT wad is "The Doom Master Levels",
in the black/white box. Is this so?
matt tag
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End of doom-editing-digest V1 #569
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