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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 577
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #577
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 15 February 1996 Volume 01 : Number 577
Sector Tags 666 and 667
More on code pointer 801
Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
Re: Sector Tags 666 and 667
Re: Sector Tags 666 and 667
Re: Sector Tags 666 and 667
Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
Sector Tags 666 and 667 -Reply
Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
Re: More on code pointer 801
Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
Resource Naming
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John Miezitis <John.Miezitis@its.utas.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:51:37 +1100
Subject: Sector Tags 666 and 667
Hi all,
I am trying to design a Doom II level which uses some of the features from
Doom II MAP07 (using WinDEU 5.24). The ID level has some sectors (with tag
666) which will lower when you have terminated all monsters in one area.
You then are met with a swarm of spiders and after swatting all of them
another sector (with tag 667) raises.
I tried using the tags 666 and 667 but the sector would not move I was able
to use a switch to lower the sector so I guess the sector is Ok.
I have looked in the handbook (1.2), the doom spec (1.6), the unofficial
doom spec and some other documents but could not find any discussion on
these special sector tags.
Can anybody suggest what I might be doing wrong or better can point me to
some documentation re special sector tags and how they work.
Thank you.
Cheers.
- -JohnM
John B Miezitis, University of Tasmania, Information Technology Services.
Intl Ph: +61 02 207419, Email: John.Miezitis@its.utas.edu.au
Belgium man Belgium!!! - Z. Beeblebrox
------------------------------
From: LummoxJR@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:05:49 -0500
Subject: More on code pointer 801
DHE users: I've discovered more about this mysterious code pointer.
Apparently, it produces explosions (using frame 799) from a random point on
up until the ceiling is reached, then creates a rocket (with slight upward
momentum), which instantly dies.
This effect, allowing explosions to be created externally, is used in a new
patch to- guess what!- make ammo boxes explode. The previously impossible
patch is now a reality.
Also, I've made a really cool patch I call "World on Fire". Basically, it
turned barrels into hot spots, which detonate and set off moving "flames".
Here's the patch in a nutshell:
Thing 31:
Hit points: 50000
Pain chance: 256
Injury frame: 241 (an archvile frame- so this is a Doom I patch unless you
change this)
Bit 1 (obstacle): Off
Bit 3 (total invisibility): On
Frame 241:
Sprite #: 0 (just in case- this is a Doom I patch, after all)
Code pointer: 188 (play injury sound- does nothing here)
Frame 242:
Sprite #: 0
Code pointer: 801
Try it with cheat codes (or do it without cheat codes and fry- makes
DeathMatch a blast). It's fun!
Lummox JR
just another patch
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:24:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
Brian,
> > all in the same exact position! In short, I don't think the crash is due
> > to an instability in the ammo depot patch, but due to the limitations of the
> > Doom engine itself.
> >
> > Mike Gummelt
> >
>
> I've followed this thread since the beginning. I have to say that
> Mike, you sure won't admit that that patch is unstable will you?
> Any patch that is unstable is due to the limitations of the doom
> engine, No?
>
> I'm not flaming here, I just think it's funny that doom crashes with
> the patch (sometimes) and doesn't with out it. But still the patch
> is fine, now it's the doom engine which is buggy. :)
>
> zombywoof
Well, Brian, the thing is Doom won't crash without the patch because Doom
doesn't do what the patch does. Anyway, the crash Lee insists he gets was
not due to the limits of the Doom engine, it's probably his specific
configuration or a corupted copy of Doom. By the way, Doom WILL crash
without the patch. Just go to Doom ][, map 30 and hang around in God
mode long enough for 200 things to be spawned. It'll crash without fail
(I've seen my friend do this several times). So my patch is no more
unstable than Doom itself. I'm not trying to be defensive here (although
I can se how it sounds like it), I just like people to get their facts
straight.
Mike
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:28:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Sector Tags 666 and 667
One possibility (don't quote me on this, just a guess) is that
perhaps the special-sector tags of 666 and 667 only have the
special behaviour if the map is map 07... I seem to remeber reading
this somewhere (The Doom Guru's book in the section about Trinity?),
but I'm not sure if it's true.
Mike
------------------------------
From: jelson@conline.com (Jim Elson)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 00:29:20 -0600
Subject: Re: Sector Tags 666 and 667
At 01:51 PM 2/14/96 +1100, doom-editing@nvg.unit.no wrote:
>
>
>I tried using the tags 666 and 667 but the sector would not move I was able
>to use a switch to lower the sector so I guess the sector is Ok.
>Can anybody suggest what I might be doing wrong or better can point me to
>some documentation re special sector tags and how they work.
They only work on map07 with those functions/monsters.
- --H2HMud
============================================================================
H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
Promo/Marketing Coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jelson@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
------------------------------
From: "John W. Anderson" <drsleep@pennet.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:53:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Sector Tags 666 and 667
John --
> I am trying to design a Doom II level which uses some of the features from
> Doom II MAP07 (using WinDEU 5.24). The ID level has some sectors (with tag
> 666) which will lower when you have terminated all monsters in one area.
> You then are met with a swarm of spiders and after swatting all of them
> another sector (with tag 667) raises.
>
> I tried using the tags 666 and 667 but the sector would not move I was able
> to use a switch to lower the sector so I guess the sector is Ok.
>
> I have looked in the handbook (1.2), the doom spec (1.6), the unofficial
> doom spec and some other documents but could not find any discussion on
> these special sector tags.
>
> Can anybody suggest what I might be doing wrong or better can point me to
> some documentation re special sector tags and how they work.
The following is from the "Wad Author's DOOM Reference" V1.0 by Jim Flynn.
=================================
666 In a transition level, when last boss dies - Lower floor to min floor
DOOM I boss = baron, cyberdemon, spider demon
DOOM II boss = mancubus, keen
If EXM8 and no 666 tag exists level ends on boss death. The
level cannot be ended on boss death in DOOM II, only Romero
death <g>.
A transition level is EXM8 in DOOM I, Map07 and an unknown
list of others in DOOM II.
667 In a transition level, when last arachnotron dies - Floor rises 64.
It is unknown if this tag has any effect or use in DOOM I.
A transition level is EXM8 in DOOM I, Map07 and an unknown
list of others in DOOM II.
====================================
If you'd like to get a copy of this, you can grab it from my home page and the
Editing Clinic link:
http://www.pennet.com/drsleep
- -John
- -----------------------------------------------
John W. Anderson <drsleep@pennet.com>
Visit my Web page: "Dr Sleep's DOOM Apothecary"
http://www.pennet.com/drsleep/
------------------------------
From: "John W. Anderson" <drsleep@pennet.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 02:04:39 -0500
Subject: Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
Mike --
> That had been my previous experience as well. But it seems that Doom
> does INDEED have a limit to the number of things it can support (this only
> makes since from a programming point of view). The limit seems to be
> around 200. I had made a flamethrower in Aliens Doom 3 that left real
> burning fires so there would be a LOT of things around after a heavy fight.
> The only side effects I had gotten were that the brighter and closer objects
> would be visible, but the further and darker things would not be rendered.
> I had never actually tried to generate 200+ things, though, especially
> all in the same exact position! In short, I don't think the crash is due
> to an instability in the ammo depot patch, but due to the limitations of the
> Doom engine itself.
DOOM can only display 64 sprites at any one time in any one view. It's a limit
of the DOOM engine. My view is that any patch or PWAD that does something to
exceed known DOOM engine limitations is the unstable factor, not the engine
itself, since these imits are well documented. If I play a level and it crashes
due to visplane errors, I blame the PWAD author, not DOOM.
- -John
- -----------------------------------------------
John W. Anderson <drsleep@pennet.com>
Visit my Web page: "Dr Sleep's DOOM Apothecary"
http://www.pennet.com/drsleep/
------------------------------
From: Chris Niggel <NIGGELC@cvumail.cvu.cssd.k12.vt.us>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:44:51 -0500
Subject: Sector Tags 666 and 667 -Reply
>>>>>>>>>>
I am trying to design a Doom II level which uses some of the features from Doom II MAP07.
>>I know in DOOM, that the E8 levels are made to end when All monsters over a Baron of hell are dead, the level can be finished. This effect is done by the DOOM engine. Probably DOOM2 is done the same way...
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K2
who's the moron who built the road behind my Alpha-house
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:57:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
John,
> DOOM can only display 64 sprites at any one time in any one view. It's a limit
> of the DOOM engine.
Ah, that's the visible sprite limit, but what's the number of things limit?
> My view is that any patch or PWAD that does something to
> exceed known DOOM engine limitations is the unstable factor, not the engine
> itself, since these imits are well documented. If I play a level and it crashes
> due to visplane errors, I blame the PWAD author, not DOOM.
>
Well, luckily for me, my patch doesn't cause a crash that you can't get
with regular old Doom. Just play map 30 long enough without killing any
monsters and you'll get the same crash for the same reason. The only
reason my patch caused a crash is beacuse someone intentionally made 200
ammo clips over a period of 10 minutes and didn't pick any up. Either
way, the patch is no ore uunstable than any other. And, incidently,
that particular problem can be avoided by simple making the ammo clips
last for a duration of only 50 or so. It would be impossible to make 200
ammo clips if they expire relatively quickly.
Mike Gummelt
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:50:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: More on code pointer 801
Lee,
A few comments on your use of the 801 code pointer:
On Tue, 13 Feb 1996 LummoxJR@AOL.COM wrote:
> DHE users: I've discovered more about this mysterious code pointer.
> Apparently, it produces explosions (using frame 799) from a random point on
> up until the ceiling is reached, then creates a rocket (with slight upward
> momentum), which instantly dies.
One problem with this code pointer seems to be that if used "outside", the
exploions never stop. So if you make too many, it will slow down the game
to a crawl, and perhaps even crash it (if you get to 200 things I suppose).
When designing levels, be sure to keep in mind that continuous explosions
created with this code pointer will never die out if created "outside". This
could be really bad for Deathmatch (and in your patch, if there are a lot
of barrels outside). Not too big of a problem, but a minor concern to keep
in mind.
> This effect, allowing explosions to be created externally, is used in a new
> patch to- guess what!- make ammo boxes explode. The previously impossible
> patch is now a reality.
Actually, this patch was a reality back in September, when I e-mailed you
the patch for your DeHackEd Grab Bag Page. Apparently, you never took a
look at it. I made ammo boxes that explode when hit (only one explosion,
not continous or rising like you get with the 801 code pointer), and no
bugs. If you want to see this patch, check out the AD3 beta released last
November. The exploding ammo was one of the first things I did (probably
because everyone was saying it was impossible). Both your and my method
work fine, but keep in mind the previous note about these explosions being
created outside.
> Also, I've made a really cool patch I call "World on Fire". Basically, it
> turned barrels into hot spots, which detonate and set off moving "flames".
Pretty cool, just remember the above note. Also, in AD3 I made a
flame-thrower that started fires and the flames would spread out like
a real fire in a manner akin to your moving flames, i believe.
By the way, i'm working on making a "push-bomb" using code 801. Basically,
you lay a floating sphere that sits around until you shove it (using
your fist or bullets). Once shoved it will move in whatever direction
you push it for a short while then create severall large explosions sending
the sphere flying all about. the effect is that you can really clear out
a whole room with one of these because the sphere will randomly fly about in
all directions exploding all over the place. It will only explode a certain
number of times before it finally dies out. It will also instantly explode
if it hits anything after being shoved, and if you just lay one and leave it,
it will eventually blow up on it's own (a nice time-delay bomb). I'm
currently working on trying to make it like a proximity mine so that it
will go off if a monster or player touches it (already have the player part
working....)
Not sure if I'll include this in Insane 3, I'd have to take out a weapon,
so we'll see. I'm trying to make a fourth projectile weapon, which has
never been done (and perhaps it can't). Trying to break that barrier of
only 3 player weapon-generated projectiles (BFG Shot, Rocket, and Plasma
Shot).
Mike
------------------------------
From: "Andrew Morton" <amorton@accutek.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:07:21 -0800
Subject: Re: DISproof of gettable projectile
> That had been my previous experience as well. But it seems that Doom
> does INDEED have a limit to the number of things it can support (this only
> makes since from a programming point of view). The limit seems to be
> around 200. I had made a flamethrower in Aliens Doom 3 that left real
> burning fires so there would be a LOT of things around after a heavy fight.
> The only side effects I had gotten were that the brighter and closer objects
> would be visible, but the further and darker things would not be rendered.
> I had never actually tried to generate 200+ things, though, especially
> all in the same exact position! In short, I don't think the crash is due
> to an instability in the ammo depot patch, but due to the limitations of the
> Doom engine itself.
I could be missing something but i made a square level with a couple
hundred boxes of rockets just and 2 launchers. Doom wouldnt render
most of them if you looked down the length of the level they'd start
to blink and or disapear. The game never crashed just a lot of
blinking. So id have to say it was probably the patch, since a
vanilla doom can handle it. As i said maybe im missing some thing.
andy
+---------------------------+----------------------------+
| Q: How do we fix USR? | amorton@accutek.com |
| A: Buy a Supra! | amorton@nsn.scs.unr.edu |
| Just Say No to USR! | IRC Nick: inspector |
+---------------------------+----------------------------+
------------------------------
From: solsson@culver2.culver.pvt.k12.in.us
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 19:23:58 0000
Subject: Resource Naming
Just recently I completed a compilation of ten levels I had been working on
for some time... you know, knew sounds graphics, the worx. :)
My question stems from-- after having glossed over the resource names in
the Christmas Doom wad, I quickly noticed that many resources had been
given names that more obviously pointed to their contents. ( I on the other
hand always use the same textures and replace them in the PWad... ) My
question is: How does the doom engine find the contents in a Pwad and give
assign to various aspects once they have been renamed? Perhaps I
misunderstand something fundamental about the .wad format, does the engine
somehow know how to "point" to the correct resource?? ex: I replace the
titlepic resource and change its name... how does doom find it to use it?
Scohop
P.S- for the thousands who may wonder where the name Scohop comes from-- I
used to have such a terrible time making levels that I would somewhat
affectionately call each one sco-hopes-this-damn-wad-will-work... or at
least it's shortand. An odd name, but better than some alternatives. <G>
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #577
**********************************
