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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 548
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #548
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Friday, 12 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 548
Re: Dead conversations about marines
Re: Deathmatch idea
Re: Deathmatch idea
Re: Deathmatch idea
tag tracing tools
Re: tag tracing tools
Re: tag tracing tools
Re: Deathmatch idea
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: Auto-determine WAD type.
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: tag tracing tools
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: no bullet puffs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sean C. Duggan" <mduggan@ramlink.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:25:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Dead conversations about marines
I agree about how decoys only need the people to waste ammo. When I
first played e2m2 on Doom 1, I spent half my ammo shooting the
twitching impaled marine before I realized he was not alive.
------------------------------
From: jdbaugh@ix.netcom.com (Justin Baugh )
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:34:45 -0800
Subject: Re: Deathmatch idea
You wrote:
>
>Hi all.
>
>I've been tossing around this cool idea I had for a deathmatch wad, and
>thought I'd try here to get some feedback.
>
>What I would like to do is to make a relatively simple level, in roughly an
>oval shape, with a few corridors and rooms, a good chase in other words.
>
>The trick is that in the centre of this level, in a very exposed place,
>would be a scaled down map of the entire level; we're talking sectors only a
>few doom-units in size here. Note: this is not a new floor texture (dunno
>whether you can do that anyway) but a representation of the level by using
>very small sectors.
>
>The real sectors would be tagged to the "map" sectors with lights on/off
>lines, so that when a player entered a particular room, they'd trigger the
>line which would light up the appropriate sector on the "map".
>
>Hence, anyone who was brave enough could go to this central area and work
>out from the lights where the other players were.
>
>What I'd like to know is, has anyone tried this before? The sector work on
>the "map" would be very fiddly so it may not be too nodes-friendly (I hope
>you know what I mean, I'm not a techie).
>
>Any feedback/comments would be appreciated.
>
>Mark.
>
>--
>
>marka@chch.planet.org.nz --- Christchurch, New Zealand.
> *Collector of Doom wads and Classical midi files*
>
>
I don't know..the actual SCALING down and moving can be done with DCK, but as for
the nodes, i agree...also there would probably be a visplane overflow problem.
------------------------------
From: matthew@hitech.com.au (Matthew Smith-Stubbs)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:05:06 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: Deathmatch idea
> >What I'd like to know is, has anyone tried this before? The sector work on
> >the "map" would be very fiddly so it may not be too nodes-friendly (I hope
> >you know what I mean, I'm not a techie).
This has been done before, kind of -- I saw it in JUSTDETH.WAD,
except the map was on the wall, and lit up sectors *behind* this linedef
which had a bitmap of the map as the texture, with transparent areas where
the sectors could light up. The wad was done by Scott Smith -- I didn't create
it.
I think I still have a copy of it, so if anyone's interested, I can upload
it somewhere (let me know via *private* email!).
I presume it is also on ftp.cdrom.com
Greetings,
Matthew
- --
=- Matthew Smith-Stubbs -=- Email: matthew@hitech.com.au -=
=- Webmaster -=- WWW: http://www.hitech.com.au -=
=- HI-TECH Software -=- FTP: ftp.hitech.com.au -=
===================================================================
------------------------------
From: marka@chch.planet.org.nz (Mark Anderson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:54:58 +1300
Subject: Re: Deathmatch idea
I wrote:
>>The trick is that in the centre of this level, in a very exposed place,
>>would be a scaled down map of the entire level; we're talking sectors only a
>>few doom-units in size here. Note: this is not a new floor texture (dunno
>>whether you can do that anyway) but a representation of the level by using
>>very small sectors.
and you wrote:
>I don't know..the actual SCALING down and moving can be done with DCK, but
as >for the nodes, i agree...also there would probably be a visplane
overflow >problem.
I should clarify, I was not intending to represent changes in floor height
in the real level, in any way on the map. It was just intended to be a
simplistic representation of the level as a "flat" sector map.
Now that you've mentioned it, of course ... hmmm... I wonder :-)
This idea may lend itself to Hexen with its scripting functions, more easily
than to Doom. (I dunno, I haven't looked at the Hexen specs yet).
A REALLY simple level might be manageable as a scaled down map ... WITH
height representaions. The room that contains the map would have to be as
simple as possible to avoid any visplane overflows.
Thanks for the comments folks.
Mark.
- --
marka@chch.planet.org.nz --- Christchurch, New Zealand.
*Collector of Doom wads and Classical midi files*
------------------------------
From: "Gregg J. Anderson" <gander@prairie.lakes.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 04:09:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: tag tracing tools
Does anyone know if any available tools will give me a detailed
report on tag associations?
I have some tag bugs in a fairly complicated level, and it is quite
painstaking to go through all 115 triggers and 2186 linedefs looking
for the culprit...
I s'pose It would be fairly straightforward to write something for this
myself, but if there is something already out there, I'll take it!
Happy Hacking,
=Gregg=
_____________________________________________________________________________
Gregg J. Anderson =o= gander@prairie.lakes.com
Mankato, MN USA =o= http://prairie.lakes.com/~gander
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TeamTNT/TNT2 http://www.starbase.neosoft.com/~teamtnt
------------------------------
From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 12:03:37 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: tag tracing tools
At 04:09:27 -0600 (CST), "Gregg J. Anderson" <gander@prairie.lakes.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know if any available tools will give me a detailed
> report on tag associations?
>
What do you need exactly?
> I have some tag bugs in a fairly complicated level, and it is quite
> painstaking to go through all 115 triggers and 2186 linedefs looking
> for the culprit...
>
It's not easy to manage so many tags, but how would you want to check them?
DEU and many other editors will highlight the sectors that are linked to
the currently selected linedef, and vice versa. What else do you need?
If you tell us what feature is missing from the tools you are using, it
would be easier for us to tell you which tools can do it (or to get
someone to add that feature to their program).
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: "Gregg J. Anderson" <gander@prairie.lakes.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:43:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: tag tracing tools
On Thu, 11 Jan 1996 Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se wrote:
> At 04:09:27 -0600 (CST), "Gregg J. Anderson" <gander@prairie.lakes.com> wrote:
> > Does anyone know if any available tools will give me a detailed
> > report on tag associations?
> >
> What do you need exactly?
>
> > I have some tag bugs in a fairly complicated level, and it is quite
> > painstaking to go through all 115 triggers and 2186 linedefs looking
> > for the culprit...
> >
> It's not easy to manage so many tags, but how would you want to check them?
> DEU and many other editors will highlight the sectors that are linked to
> the currently selected linedef, and vice versa. What else do you need?
>
That came out wrong... I only have about 25 tags, but with doors, etc.
I end up with 115 triggers as reported by WADWHAT.
DETH does indeed highlight the associated linedefs/sectors, but I still
have a misbehaving 'W1-lower to lowest floor' trigger bug that creeps up
occasionally, even after it had been working fine for a few weeks.
All checks are OK, and highlighting the offending linedefs/sectors
does not reveal the problem. It might be a tiny sector somewhere
that just does not show up well using this method, who knows?
I also want to investigate whether the editors/nodebuilders I use
might be playing a part.
> If you tell us what feature is missing from the tools you are using, it
> would be easier for us to tell you which tools can do it (or to get
> someone to add that feature to their program).
What I am optimally looking for is just a printed report like this:
tag# action | Linedef #s | Sector #s
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
tag1 W1 drop to nearest floor 112 62
47
tag2 SR lower lift, wait 3, raise 141 87
.
.
.
<etc>
Maybe this is a good way for me to brush up on my C++... :-)
>
> Raphael
=Gregg=
_____________________________________________________________________________
Gregg J. Anderson =o= gander@prairie.lakes.com
Mankato, MN USA =o= http://prairie.lakes.com/~gander
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:33:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Deathmatch idea
On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, Mark Anderson wrote:
> >>The trick is that in the centre of this level, in a very exposed place,
> >>would be a scaled down map of the entire level; we're talking sectors only a
> >>few doom-units in size here. Note: this is not a new floor texture (dunno
> >>whether you can do that anyway) but a representation of the level by using
> >>very small sectors.
>
> and you wrote:
> >I don't know..the actual SCALING down and moving can be done with DCK, but
> as >for the nodes, i agree...also there would probably be a visplane
> overflow >problem.
>
> I should clarify, I was not intending to represent changes in floor height
> in the real level, in any way on the map. It was just intended to be a
> simplistic representation of the level as a "flat" sector map.
Any visplane problem you would have would be independent of the
"flatness" of the map. The visplane overflow comes from too many different
floor/ceiling texture areas in view and it wouldn't matter whether they were
all at one height or at 100 different heights.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:38:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Joel Huenink wrote:
> I have been designing a deathmatch level using DCK and in some areas
> there are no bullet puffs on some 2 sided lines such as the sides of
> stairs or ledges. Is this normal? I had another area that would suck up
> or consume rockets and plasma. I flipped the linedef and this was fixed
> but it wouldn't fix my no bullet puff problem in the other area.
I've noticed this for a long time. I've always assumed that the
puffs never occur on 2-sided lines, so I don't know if it happens on just
some 2-sided lines. I've figured that 2-sided lines were handled differently
(for whatever reason), analogous to the fact that trying to activate a switch
on a 2-sided line that doesn't have a switch doesn't produce the "uunnh"
sound.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 16:31:50 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: Auto-determine WAD type.
On 5 Jan 96 10:11:24 EDT, Marc_Rousseau wrote:
> In an earlier response, Olivier wrote:
> >There is no method to determine if a PWAD is for DOOM, HERETIC or HEXEN,
> >and actually this sucks, because a HEXEN PWAD read with DOOM settings
> >will look real weird ;-)
>
> This isn't guaranteed to work 100% of the time, but this is the logic used
> in ZenNode to determine if the PWAD being worked on is a HEXEN PWAD or not:
[... several good ideas ...]
There is another thing that you can check first: does the map entry point to
something, or is it empty like in Doom?
None of the Doom editors should change the size of ExMy or MAPxx, so a PWAD
which has some data associated with the map entry must be for Hexen (unless
it has been made with a bad Doom editor :-).
You should also check the LineDef structure, which is different in Doom and
Hexen.
Anyway, checking the size of the Things lump is indeed a good test, as well
as checking the type and X position of the things. However, I would not
recommend that you check if less than 30% of the things have an invalid angle,
because I saw several PWADs (and even one of the original levels in Doom)
which have invalid angles in them. I don't know which editor created those
strange PWADs. It looks like Doom doesn't complain too much about that.
Now, who will be first one to create a PWAD which can be read by Doom _and_
Hexen? Of course, the result would be totally different and there would
probably be some things far out of the map (because of the differences in
the structures), but it would be a good challenge for a hacker to create a
playable level that works with both games.
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:10:58 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
At 08:38:48 -0600 (CST), Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu> wrote:
[about puffs on 2S lines]
> I've noticed this for a long time. I've always assumed that the
> puffs never occur on 2-sided lines, so I don't know if it happens on just
> some 2-sided lines. I've figured that 2-sided lines were handled differently
> (for whatever reason), analogous to the fact that trying to activate a switch
> on a 2-sided line that doesn't have a switch doesn't produce the "uunnh"
> sound.
I also thought that puffs never occured on 2-sided lines (on the "lower" or
"upper" part of the wall). So I did a quick check on the first level of
Doom II: the puffs appear if you shoot the bottom of the platform on which
you start. I thought it could have a different behaviour depending on which
side of the linedef you are shooting at (first or second sidedef). I flipped
the line with DEU and I got exactly the same result: the puffs appear. Damn!
Doom is over two years old and we still don't know all about it... Who will
discover what makes the puffs appear or disappear on 2S lines?
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: Yugo Nakai <ynakai@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 12:43:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: tag tracing tools
>> At 04:09:27 -0600 (CST), "Gregg J. Anderson" <gander@prairie.lakes.com>
wrote:
>> > Does anyone know if any available tools will give me a detailed
>> > report on tag associations?
>> If you tell us what feature is missing from the tools you are using, it
>> would be easier for us to tell you which tools can do it (or to get
>> someone to add that feature to their program).
>
>What I am optimally looking for is just a printed report like this:
>
>tag# action | Linedef #s | Sector #s
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>tag1 W1 drop to nearest floor 112 62
> 47
>
>tag2 SR lower lift, wait 3, raise 141 87
> .
What about a similar list in a window that allows sorting by tag #, linedef
#, sector #, and action? Also, as you highlight a line in the list, its
linedefs and sectors should be highlighted in the map.
------------------------------
From: thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:01:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
>
> I also thought that puffs never occured on 2-sided lines (on the "lower" or
> "upper" part of the wall). So I did a quick check on the first level of
> Doom II: the puffs appear if you shoot the bottom of the platform on which
> you start. I thought it could have a different behaviour depending on which
> side of the linedef you are shooting at (first or second sidedef). I flipped
> the line with DEU and I got exactly the same result: the puffs appear. Damn!
>
> Doom is over two years old and we still don't know all about it... Who will
> discover what makes the puffs appear or disappear on 2S lines?
>
I'm not sure, but I think it's got something to do with the nodes.
Perhaps someone should take a map with such structures and node-build
it with several different programs (editors and command-line builders)
and compare the results.
I've got WinDEU 5.24 and WARM 1.4, so if a few of us with different
node-builders can agree on a map, I'd be happy to node-build under these
two and share my results.
Later,
Brian
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Joel Huenink <jh32322@ltec.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 17:21:08 -0600
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se wrote:
>
> At 08:38:48 -0600 (CST), Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu> wrote:
> [about puffs on 2S lines]
> > I've noticed this for a long time. I've always assumed that the
> > puffs never occur on 2-sided lines, so I don't know if it happens on just
> > some 2-sided lines. I've figured that 2-sided lines were handled differently
> > (for whatever reason), analogous to the fact that trying to activate a switch
> > on a 2-sided line that doesn't have a switch doesn't produce the "uunnh"
> > sound.
>
> I also thought that puffs never occured on 2-sided lines (on the "lower" or
> "upper" part of the wall). So I did a quick check on the first level of
> Doom II: the puffs appear if you shoot the bottom of the platform on which
> you start. I thought it could have a different behaviour depending on which
> side of the linedef you are shooting at (first or second sidedef). I flipped
> the line with DEU and I got exactly the same result: the puffs appear. Damn!
>
> Doom is over two years old and we still don't know all about it... Who will
> discover what makes the puffs appear or disappear on 2S lines?
>
> -Raphael
Dont quote me on this but they only seem to appear if there is 3 surfaces exposed and they are
upper and lower unpegged like below tall windows or openings with a ledge below and a roof. I
played with pegging lines differently but that didn't seem to change anything.
Joel Huenink
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #548
**********************************
