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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 534
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #534
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 28 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 534
Re: Doom III conversion-suggestions.
Re: D**mIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Re: A few items.
Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Re: Doom III conversion-suggestions.
Re: Yet ANOTHER dehacked question
Re: Ceiling Monsters.
speed optimization
Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERS
Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERS
Re: Re: A few items.
Re: speed optimization
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pandion-Knight <s337239@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 15:55:55 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Subject: Re: Doom III conversion-suggestions.
Here's an idea.. modify the final enemy target so it IS the final enemy shot
and when it "creates" a monster it creates it almost on top of itself,
and you have a monster that "summons" other monsters.....
Wil that work ? i'll go try it on dehacked now... :)
Christopher Voutsis
Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 01:22:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: D**mIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Joel,
I like this idea too, it would be easy to do in the dehacked stage-
just make a chaingun guy that wakes up immediately (to make it
turn and play the warining sound) and has no speed. If you have access
to a 3D modeler, you can make a nice graphics for it I have Imagine,
so I can make it if you like).
Mike Gummelt
>
> Not bad! Like a security system that activates when you cross a line or
> wakes like a monster and rotates toward you and shoots at you until you
> shoot it and blow it up!
>
> Joel
>
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 01:46:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: A few items.
Bashir,
I can answer the DeHackEd question. If you make the player fire
lost souls (which can easily be done), they will attack YOU. (monsters
always attack te first thing that hurt them- and projectiles are always
"hurt" by the player first because they are spawned within them! Freaky!)
Mike Gummelt
On 25 Dec 1995, Bashir Eustache wrote:
> I have a few questions that may or may not have been asked before.
>
> Does anyone know how to set up a trigger, so that it will only go off when
> certain monsters are dead? This occurs on MAP7 of DOOM ][ where the
> archvilles are not released until the Mancubuses(Mancubusi?) are dead.
>
> Is it possible to set up (Via Dehacked) the rocket launcher so that it fires
> lost souls? I suppose I could try making a wad, but I don't have much
> experience changing wad graphics...what software would I use? Where would I
> find it?
>
> I would like to make a wad that uses some of my midi's. As I understand it
> they must first be converted to MUS format. How do I convert them? What do
> I use? Where do I find it? What software do I use to actually merge the
> midi with the wad for DOOM ][. where do I find that?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Bashir
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 02:03:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Phil,
In my Aliens Doom 3, there's a monster (enemy marine) with a
flamethrower (uses the archvile's flame graphic) that starts real fires,
you may want to take a look at it.
Mike Gummelt
PS- No need to get rid of monsters, like yuo said, my Aliens had almost
30 monsters.
>
> Also, I just finished a patch (My first good one thank you very much) with a
> monster with a flame thrower. No new graphics though, bad guy is a red
> player, flame is the second of the three frame to the missle explosion.
> Could use this in the TC if interested. Also, has anyone else done this?
> I've seen tons of patches where you get a flame thrower, but none with flame
> thrower monsters.
>
> phil
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 02:09:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Quite possible, Joel. I made a flamethrowing omnster in Aliens Doom 3 if
you want to check it out.
Mike
>
>Is
there a reason a moster would have to be ditched? Couldn't you just do
> >something with the pointers? Isn't there like 30 new monsters in the new
> >Aliens TC? I'm new to dehacked.
> >
> >Also, I just finished a patch (My first good one thank you very much) with a
> >monster with a flame thrower. No new graphics though, bad guy is a red
> >player, flame is the second of the three frame to the missle explosion.
> >Could use this in the TC if interested. Also, has anyone else done this?
> >I've seen tons of patches where you get a flame thrower, but none with flame
> >thrower monsters.
> >
> >phil
> >
> That would be cool. instead of a guy maybe a big demon that rears back and
> bellows flames out his mouth! That way the player can't get his flame
> thrower when he kills it.
>
> Joel
>
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 01:37:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Actually, you don't need to sacrifice a monster- you can make any thing
a monster. I have 25 "monsters" in aliens Doom 3. The only problem one
might get here is using the "hangs from cielings" bit. It doesn't work with
monsters. You'd have to place it on an invisible ledge or make the graphics
offset make up for it (but then you cuold shoot it without having to shoot
up- the puffs from your bullets would actually appear somewhere between it
and the floor. You could adjust the hieght to compensate for this,
but.. well, it's going to take a littlw playing with to get right).
Mike Gummelt
On Mon, 25 Dec 1995, Pandion-Knight wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Dec 1995, philip wrote:
>
> >
> > I was thinking about this just last night. How about a turnet mounted on
> > the ceiling (can't move) with a machine gun. Could also have a flashing
> > red light on the bottom of the turnet and have the active sound play some
> > sort of warning sound. Just an idea.
> >
> > phil
>
> Easy, but you'd have to ditch a monster. Make a thing with movement 0, like
> the spiderdemon... or chaingun dude (but thats taken, hey.. ?) and modify
> the graphics so that its sorta upside down. Then set the hangs-from-ceiling
> bit.. (only on objects have not tried effects on monsters yet) and it
> should work..
>
> ... assuming im right.
>
> Ps is there a problem with setting monsters speed 0 ?
>
> Christopher Voutsis
> Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
>
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 01:50:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Doom III conversion-suggestions.
The monster that replicates itself is easy, just make a projectile with
an ID# (not -1) and make it "fire" itself. This could be kind of cool.
Also, the land mine and time-delay explosion have both been done by me.
The land mines are in the Aliens Doom 3 beta, and the grenades (which
work like the Thermal Detonators in Dark Forces) are in the Insane Weapons
patch I may be releasing soon (I'm considering putting it in the D**M ]I[
conversion).
Mike Gummelt
On 25 Dec 1995, Bashir Eustache wrote:
> Doom III total conversion.....How about a monster that replicates itself?
> That is possible isn't it? Just give it a short distance weapon that is a
> monster(if that's possible). If it does work...a player would have to
> eliminate the threat(s) as quickly as possible or things could get pretty
> HAIRY.
>
> How about mines( I know that's possible, but it gets boring very quickly)
> that explode in just a few seconds.(IF THAT'S POSSIBLE!) I wonder if it's
> enought to give up a doom weapon for.....I'd give up the BFG myself.....I
> don't use it anyway, except on cyberdemons and Spider Bosses.
>
> I worry about the graphics. I've seen my share of Doom conversions and with
> the exception of a couple (Aliens Doom and Terminator 2 Doom[which didn't
> even come out, I think, but the preview looked good.]) the graphics look
> pretty shabby. I figure, if you're gonna put time into somethign like
> that....please try to find a reliable graphics team.
>
> Enough prattling,
> Bashir
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 01:43:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Yet ANOTHER dehacked question
You cannot make another player or monster jump in the air unless you
do it automatically when you get hurt or die (put it in the player's
death or injury frames)- of course- you'll spin to look at the monster
first and that's very disorienting.
As for the health gun/booster jet- I made that. You could make a jetpack
but there's two limitations. One is that each boost would hurt you a little
so if that was undesirable, you have to make the player shoot a health
sphere that's equivalent to the damage you're taking. But after 20 jumps,
the archvile hits either do more damage or the health helps less and the
balance is thrown off. In which case you have to make the health spheres
overcompensate for the first 20 and level out for the rest (this effect
carries over between levels). The second limitation is that the boost
is always in an easterly direction. This isn't all that noticable with
one or two boosts, but with more, after you lose your original directional
momentum, you'll be drifting east.
Mike Gummelt
On Mon, 25 Dec 1995, Pandion-Knight wrote:
>
> I have tried (briefly) to fiddle with a code pointers to mix rocket
> attack and archvile so rocket hits can chuck monster/players in the air.
>
> Is there a way to do this ??
>
> Also, i am interested in some health gun i heard about, that chucks ppl
> in the air.. (aka archvile again). If this is correct is it possible to
> make a jetpack (sacrifice a weapon..) that does short bursts of jumping
> power ??
>
> Thanks in advance, doomers...
>
> Christopher Voutsis
> Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
>
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 02:43:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Ceiling Monsters.
Sorry, Phil, but the method you suggest here only works in short rooms.
If you try that in a tall room, the imps will "float" down to you as you
get closer to them, even with the "no auto-leveling" on, and they won't
float back up when you walk away. This may be okay in some cases, but
it's kind of limiting. You'd have to keep the turrets in short rooms,
or you could put them in places where you COULDN'T get close to
them, or place them in holes or on top of invisible cliffs to stop them
from dropping down. Joel, what do you think, is this good enough, or did
you want to make them a little more realistic? To be honest, I don't think
it can be done without a little "cheating" here and there.
Mike Gummelt
On Wed, 27 Dec 1995, philip wrote:
> MICHAEL HOENIE wrote:
> >
> > While it has been easy to create a "mounted turret monster", ie. like the
> > Apogee Game "Blake Stone 3d!" where they had mounted turrets on the
> > ceiling that aimed for you.
> >
> > I have been trying out some pointers in dehacked and have been able to
> > make a turret that fires upon line-of-site, but doesn't move. I have
> > changed the IMP to look like a soul sphere, and the soul sphere then fires
> > the chaingun.
> >
> > Problem: I have set the "No Gravity" and "Hangs From Ceiling" bit, but as
> > soon as it's in line-of-site, it drops to the floor. I've even tried
> > setting the height and width to 20, but it doesn't help, even with
> > "travels over cliffs" set. I've tried all these combinations without
> > success. If you set the height too high, it'll be above the ceiling, and
> > hense out of the sector (same with a smaller number).
> >
> > Any way to make 'em stick to the ceiling?
>
> I just figured it out. After I brought up the idea I thought it would be
> good to make sure it works. Once I tried it the same happened to me.
> What I did was set travels over ledges to on, along with floating, no
> gravity and hangs from ceiling, and it worked!
>
> I got another wonderful idea. How about a spot that shots at you from a
> hole in the wall, like in hexen? It would only have to two frames big,
> one for normal, one for shooting.
>
> Also, is there a refrence on what everything does for dehacked? I
> haven't found one yet.
>
> phil
>
> p.s. Joel, if you haven't guessed, I'd like to help you on your wad
>
------------------------------
From: "Gregg J. Anderson" <gander@prairie.lakes.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 09:17:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: speed optimization
Hello fellow doom-hacking-type-people,
I am having a real *bitch* of a time getting a wad to run smoothly.
It has been REJECTED with both idbsp and WARM to no avail.
idbsp seemed to do a better job, though.
The thing is ~300k, (before graphics/etc.) which is part of the problem.
I notice the chunkiness when turning some corners to reveal another area.
What really starts slowing it down is when I get the monsters in there.
My question is if my monster-flagging habits have anything to do with
the speed. I flag most of my monsters as deaf, and keep many others
held in off-map "storage" areas to teleport in at the proper times.
Would a dozen or so deaf monsters all seeing the player at once be
part of the cause? How about a bunch of monsters hearing the player all
at once?
Once all the monsters in a room have seen/heard me, things start getting
smoother. Just the initial reaction to my presence slows it down.
I have tried to compact the level down into smaller, more confined areas
hoping this would help, but it hasn't much.
Which causes more problems with speed... the number of sectors/linedefs
in the *entire* level, or the complexity of each sector with many viewable
linedefs?
Thanks,
=Gregg=
_____________________________________________________________________________
Gregg J. Anderson =o= gander@Prairie.Lakes.com
Mankato, MN USA =o= gander@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
TeamTNT/TNT2 =o= Flames: barney@purple.dino.CIA.gov
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: michael.hoenie@sharecity.com (MICHAEL HOENIE)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 11:54:00 -0700
Subject: Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERS
- -->Is there a reason a moster would have to be ditched? Couldn't you just do
- -->something with the pointers? Isn't there like 30 new monsters in the new
- -->Aliens TC? I'm new to dehacked.
30 monsters seems to me like PUSHING it just a little too far. I can image
6 new GOOD monsters, but 30 is a little outrageous.
- -->Also, I just finished a patch (My first good one thank you very much) with
- -->a monster with a flame thrower. No new graphics though, bad guy is a red
- -->player, flame is the second of the three frame to the missle explosion.
- -->Could use this in the TC if interested. Also, has anyone else done this?
- -->I've seen tons of patches where you get a flame thrower, but none with
- -->flame thrower monsters.
You can make monsters use any weapon and determine how fast, when, and if
continuess. What are you looking for?
- -+-
* michael.hoenie@sharecity.com << Michael S. Hoenie >>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 15:47:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERS
Michael,
Just for the record, my 25 monsters include things like aliens and
predators as well as 6 friendly marines, 4 enemy marines, stationary
objects that harm the player if it gets too close, as well as other
things like a key that behaves like a cat, and shootable obstacles
like grates and glass.
Mike Gummelt
Oops? Did Hoenie write this? I can't follow it with this crappy mail
editor...
>
> 30 monsters seems to me like PUSHING it just a little too far. I can image
> 6 new GOOD monsters, but 30 is a little outrageous.
>
> -->Also, I just finished a patch (My first good one thank you very much) with
> -->a monster with a flame thrower. No new graphics though, bad guy is a red
> -->player, flame is the second of the three frame to the missle explosion.
> -->Could use this in the TC if interested. Also, has anyone else done this?
> -->I've seen tons of patches where you get a flame thrower, but none with
> -->flame thrower monsters.
>
> You can make monsters use any weapon and determine how fast, when, and if
> continuess. What are you looking for?
>
> -+-
> * michael.hoenie@sharecity.com << Michael S. Hoenie >>
>
>
------------------------------
From: beustache@mail.lovett.pvt.k12.ga.us (Bashir Eustache)
Date: 27 Dec 1995 16:25:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: A few items.
What if it had range like a rocket launcher. Meaning, it wouldn't stop going
until it hit someone or a wall. Wouldn't keep it from attacking me?
Re:
____________________
Bashir,
I can answer the DeHackEd question. If you make the player fire
lost souls (which can easily be done), they will attack YOU. (monsters
always attack te first thing that hurt them- and projectiles are always
"hurt" by the player first because they are spawned within them! Freaky!)
Mike Gummelt
On 25 Dec 1995, Bashir Eustache wrote:
> I have a few questions that may or may not have been asked before.
>
> Does anyone know how to set up a trigger, so that it will only go off when
> certain monsters are dead? This occurs on MAP7 of DOOM ][ where the
> archvilles are not released until the Mancubuses(Mancubusi?) are dead.
>
> Is it possible to set up (Via Dehacked) the rocket launcher so that it
fires
> lost souls? I suppose I could try making a wad, but I don't have much
> experience changing wad graphics...what software would I use? Where would
I
> find it?
>
> I would like to make a wad that uses some of my midi's. As I understand it
> they must first be converted to MUS format. How do I convert them? What
do
> I use? Where do I find it? What software do I use to actually merge the
> midi with the wad for DOOM ][. where do I find that?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Bashir
_______________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: jelson@conline.com (Jim Elson)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 15:31:32 -0600
Subject: Re: speed optimization
At 09:17 AM 12/27/95 -0600, doom-editing@nvg.unit.no wrote:
>
>Hello fellow doom-hacking-type-people,
>
>I am having a real *bitch* of a time getting a wad to run smoothly.
>It has been REJECTED with both idbsp and WARM to no avail.
>idbsp seemed to do a better job, though.
>
>The thing is ~300k, (before graphics/etc.) which is part of the problem.
>I notice the chunkiness when turning some corners to reveal another area.
>
>What really starts slowing it down is when I get the monsters in there.
>
>My question is if my monster-flagging habits have anything to do with
>the speed. I flag most of my monsters as deaf, and keep many others
>held in off-map "storage" areas to teleport in at the proper times.
Lots of monsters don't help, but that doesn't seem to be your problem.
>Which causes more problems with speed... the number of sectors/linedefs
>in the *entire* level, or the complexity of each sector with many viewable
>linedefs?
As a prelude to an answer: I used to play on a 486-66. On map01 I noticed
a just discernable slow-down when I entered the room where the plasma gun
is in DM. In other words, the biggest slowdown is caused by the number of
planes visible in a sector. The more complex, the more the slowdown.
Another thing that causes slow-downs is new textures. If you want to see
just how much this affects game-play then check out the H2HMud IDC wads.
There are 3 versions of them: a) mostly all new textures, b) a balance
of id and new textures, c) only id textures: a)H2HMud01, H2HMud02, H2HMud03,
and H2HMudDX; b) H2HMudFE, the Final Edition; c) H2HMudCE, the Competition
Edition.
Rejects help a lot, but that can only help so much. A case in point is
H2HMudFE, map03. (Note: the H2HMuds listed have shitty rejects, I didn't
check it before the competition began. If you want to see just how much
difference a good reject makes, compare H2HMudFE, map03, with H2H-Xmas,
map14). Even with a 74% reject efficiency, in co-op, it's obvious even
on a P-90 when someone goes "outside" into the courtyard area. Suddenly
a large number of monsters see the player and the computer now has to do
calculations for them.
In short, it's my hypothesis, that monster population can be the biggest
source of game slow-down. However, the number of visible planes can push
Doom so close to the limits that just a handful of monsters can bring
gameplay to it's knees (there's one pwad I've played before back in my
486-66 days where I saw this very dramatically, but I can't remember the
name off-hand).
Hope this helps in some small way.
- --H2HMud, coordinator of H2H & H2HMud Wad Teams
P.S. the H2HMud Wad Team passes the title of "Most Insane Number of
Monsters in a Pwad" (for H2HMudFE, map04) to Dario Casali (for Punisher.wad)
>
>Thanks,
>=Gregg=
>_____________________________________________________________________________
>Gregg J. Anderson =o= gander@Prairie.Lakes.com
>Mankato, MN USA =o= gander@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
>TeamTNT/TNT2 =o= Flames: barney@purple.dino.CIA.gov
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
============================================================================
H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
Promo/Marketing Coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jelson@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #534
**********************************
