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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 524
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #524
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 21 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 524
Re(2): Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
DHE stuff
Re: Insane Weapons Patch!
Re: Yet another dehacked *answer*...
Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
Re: More DHE corrections
DHE stuff (player like monsters)
RE: DHE stuff
Code Pointers... More DHE Qs
RE: offset problem within pwad
Demo problem within pwad
Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
Re: Demo problem within pwad
Re: DHE stuff
Re: Demo problem within pwad
Re: Yet another dehacked *answer*...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Drake O'Brien" <a13231@mindlink.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:43:17 -0800
Subject: Re(2): Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
Robert Fenske asked:
>> About two months ago, Drake O'brien claimed to have a way of getting
>>both effects (transparent doors + invisible sectors) in the same WAD by simply
>>creatively manipulating the LINEDEFS. I was skeptical since I was the one
>>that originally made the claim that the two effects couldn't be in the
same WAD
>>because of conflicting node tree requirements, but I haven't spent the time to
>>investigate it. Anyway, if he actually did get both effects, then having such
>>specialized functions in the node builder
>>would seem to be unnecessary. Drake, are you around to re-iterate what your
>>method was to get both effects in the same WAD?
>heh - actually I was mistaken. The transp door was perfect, but the deep water
>was a bit flawed. The water
>was 'deep' but you could see partition lines in the water at the steps. It
>can work fairly well in some cases, where you could place the step lines
>carefully, but for most cases it's better to just go for perfect deep water
>and the slightly flawed transp door.
>All I did was extend the technique you already described for eliminating HOM
>in doortracks by giving all the linedefs for the steps of the deep water the
>greatest index numbers in the area. That technique seems to be a good
>general purpose technique for a lot of special effects.
But I wasn't totally off the wall! I did manage to re-write SPCIAL2B.WAD so
it works 100% perfect for everything but the deep water effect, which as I
say continues to have a small defect. So I have a copy of SPCIAL2B.WAD with
both transp doors and invisible sectors: perfect transparent doors,
invisible lifts, transparent stairs, anti-grav field, etc., built using WARM
- -b -n=a options. (and the deep water isn't that bad...)
As I said above, all I did was extend the technique you already described
(in the manual for spcial2b.wad) for eliminating HOM in the doortracks of
transp doors - strengthening it. But for stuff like invisible stairs and
anti-grav fields, etc., because the -n=a option builds a different way, I
had to move some linedefs around as well. Example is for the invisible
steps. The sectors defining the individual steps are little triangles
inside bounding rectangles. With the default WARM build and using the
transp step technique the surrounding rectangle is given the same height as
the little triangle, so the player can walk up, whereas with the WARM -b
- -n=a option the triangle's height is interior to the triangle only. So I
turned the triangles into rectangles, split their linedefs and drew the mid
vertices to join the end vertices (so the index numbers of the invisible
stair linedefs are greater than the index numbers of the bounding rectrangle
linedefs) and drew the invisible stair rectangles 8 units inside the
bounding rectangles (so the gaps weren't large enough for the player or
creatures to fall in). I did this throughout SPCIAL2B.WAD, wherever the idea
applied, so the anti-grav field effect works fine as well with a slight
displacement of the linedefs and using the 'splitting technique'.
I give a pretty poor explanation so if anyone wants the rebuilt copy of
spcial2b just give me an e-mail & I'll send it.
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 00:30:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: DHE stuff
> Have it spawn an invisible projectile that dissipates almost right away
> (duration 4 or so) which can be shot, but has a stupidly large number of
> hitpoints (like 50000). Wait, one problem...you can't make the sword do that,
> can you? Have it shoot something, I mean. (I assume this is the chainsaw
> we're replacing here). But that is how you could get it to work, it would
> block the incoming projectiles.
Urm, minor problem... projectiles can't hit other projectiles, unless
you turn off one of the bits, which makes Doom crash.
Someone mentioned to me that he did find a way to make a "shield"
weapon for the player... he modified the BFG and its bits to get
something that would block enemies shots. But he never did say exactly
how he did it.
> BTW, has anyone *tried* a deathmatch game full of player-like monsters?
> Before you scratch the idea off as "it's too easy to be stupid", can't some-
> one at least TRY it?
I've tried playing DMARMY3.DEH in deathmatch, skill 5, but it is just
too brutal. I'd get about 5 frags per 10 deaths, and I was doing the
best of the group playing. Maybe I just made that particular patch a
little bit too overpowered. :)
Greg Lewis
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:01:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Insane Weapons Patch!
One problem with your suggestion. You can't make a projectile shootable.
If you do, the game crashes without fail. And if I don't make it a
projectile, it won't leave my body without dying first (dying deactivates
the "shootable" bit). Thus, it wouldn't work. Nice try, though!
Mike Gummelt
Previous discussion:
> >
demons).
Unfortunately, I can't get it to block or deflect missile > attacks.
>
> Have it spawn an invisible projectile that dissipates almost right away
> (duration 4 or so) which can be shot, but has a stupidly large number of
> hitpoints (like 50000). Wait, one problem...you can't make the sword do that,
> can you? Have it shoot something, I mean. (I assume this is the chainsaw
> we're replacing here). But that is how you could get it to work, it would
> block the incoming projectiles. And, if you made it do the damage the sword
> should, and give it a small movement rate, it will hit enemies in front of
> you. Maybe you could try this with another weapon.
>
> BTW -- Were you the one who wanted the ultimate murder weapon? Well, this
> would be done from DeHexEd (which is not out yet) but...here it is...
>
> Take Wraithvenge. Make the Ghosts appear instantly, do a nifty large number
> of damage (1000 is good), make then move incredible fast, and give them no
> clipping (and full invis. if you want). It flies through walls, splattering
> everything it finds...but if you use a "Chaos Device" as the last possible
> second (the only possible second ;) then they would go back after you...and
> it's your turn to die :)
>
> I like the sound of that.
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:10:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Yet another dehacked *answer*...
I am working on one, based on my previous sggestions.
Mike Gummelt
> --
> FrancisGA
>
> BTW, has anyone *tried* a deathmatch game full of player-like monsters?
> Before you scratch the idea off as "it's too easy to be stupid", can't some-
> one at least TRY it?
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 00:56:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
Ahh, I see. Yes, all my transparent doors do seem to have
a "leakeage" when they open or close- but not very noticable
(especially on blazing doors).
Mike
On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Robert Fenske Jr wrote:
>
> On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Michael Gummelt wrote:
>
> > In my Aliens Doom 3 levels, I have both effects. On e1m2, I have
> > a transparent door (the one with a fan on it) and invisible sectors (the
> > "invisible" bridge between two of the raised wedges. If you get special1b.zip
> > (something like that), that has both effects also, as well as invisible
> > stairs, multi-function switches, deep water, etc. You should definitely
> > check this out, that's how I figured out how to do all the things in my
> > levels (all the above effects are in my levels as well).
>
> I should have been clearer. By transparent door, I meant a perfect
> transparent door--one with no ceiling leakage or any other unwanted visual
> effect. These bad visual effects can be minimized with good combinations of
> textures, door widths, etc, but they are still there. Currently the only
> method I know of that create a perfect transparent door is incompatible with
> invisible sectors. That's why I was appealing to Drake to regurgitate his
> method that can do both. Or perhaps your Aliens 3 levels do employ such a
> method.
>
> Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
> Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
> Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
> San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
>
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:08:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: More DHE corrections
Gene,
Well, I see my little suggestion has caused a minor debate...
One thing I want to clear up, though, I did NOT intend to suggest
putting a movement code pointer in the firing loop sequence- this would
lock up the game. What I suggested was starting a Lost Soul attack, then
going into a firing loop. When I said you could make a marine look like
he was moving while firing, the other option I mentioned did not pertain
to these fire-loops. For attacks that are just single-occuring, I
suggested making the firing frame duration 0 and have the next frames
be moving frames that have the firing sprites in them, then go back to
the movement loop.
> >
Nope.
> > The way to get a repeating weapon is to loop the attack sequence around. If
> > done properly, there will be a line-of-sight check in one frame, and firing
> > in another, with no pulling out the weapon and putting it back, as is usually
> > the case with monsters.
> > The moving is done only during the moving frames, unless one of the attack
> > frames is given the proper code pointer.
> > I think your impression of the effect is that the chance of attacking during
> > a moving sequence would be increased- not so. This is internal to the game,
> > and as such is unhackable.
>
> Sigh. You misunderstand again. I had been talking about someone's
> attempt to have a fake marine move while he fires his weapon. Yes,
> believe it or not, I *know* that to loop the firing frame you set the
> last frame in the firing sequence to go to the first frame in the
> sequence, sticking a line-of-sight check in one of the frames. The
> proposal was to also stick a movement code pointer in there, so the fake
> marine moves while he shoots. I said that I thought it might appear
> slightly choppy.
>
------------------------------
From: cholland@vnet.IBM.COM
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 01:56:55 EST
Subject: DHE stuff (player like monsters)
From: Chris Holland +61-2-354-7666 FA42
Project Assistant - Technical Operations Group
ISSC Australia
Subject: DHE stuff (player like monsters)
With reguards the player like monsters....
About a year back, I was changing the player sprites to those of a
shot-gun guy, and accidently made the last death frame, the first
shot-gun guy frame. The result was that wherever a player was killed,
there would be a statue of a sargent (who always faced you).
There were soon clusers of these statues where most of the fights took
place, any you could stand amongst them un detected, as long as you faced
you oponent.
This was quite fun, but the novelty wore of quite quickly (I think).
It made for very different deathmatch though.
Just changing players to shot-gun guys, and having lots of real ones
about is not so good. The real guy's legs move when they walk and
the players don't. Their movements are so different that it is easy
to spot a real player.
Just my experiences and thoughts for those wanting to use this idea.
It can be fun....and a good change. (Not that I ever get tired of
DEATHMATCH!!)
Chris.
ISSCAUS(CHOLLAND) E-Mail : cmhollan@socs.uts.edu.au
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 20 Dec 95 11:30:15+0100
Subject: RE: DHE stuff
Hello Greg,
Could you tell me the name of the HeXen version of Dehacked?
The one I suppose you're working at :-)
It's just to put the right name in WinTex 4.1, before I release it.
Thanx in advance,
Olivier
------------------------------
From: scully@ix.netcom.com (Magdalena O. Penaranda )
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 04:14:45 -0800
Subject: Code Pointers... More DHE Qs
problem. I created a really strong weapon, and I wanted the monsters in
that are not combustable(exploding frame at 0) to be combustable, like
the demon and the cacodemon, etc... but I have a prob with the baron
and the spiderdemon and the cyberdemon, because when they explode, they
don't do that special sector thing(you know, on E1M8, the barons, they
make that wall go down) so I'm wondering, Is there a code pointer for
the death frames of the baron, cyberdemon, and the spiderdemon???
Ok the rest of this is the main description of beasty, or what i
have done right now and how. ok, mainly it's a giant crush, well, not
really. remember those pesky troopers, well now, they are as powerful
as demons and more, they are equipped with the archvile's flame attack,
but they can't respawn dead things. I made some of the items shootable
so that you'd kick your self if you don't watch that hell fire gun.(a
smokin bullet that "tinks" when it hits something and about one second
later, it bursts into flames!!! a very powerful gun that incinerates
anything the range a rocket explodes, and I'm talkin incinerates!!!)
There's a nebula shooter that replaces the rocket launcher so the
rockets are gray clouds of exlosive charge that destroys anything in
sight, very cool! but I like the hell fire gun better. you can't live
without it. One thing to try is to stand next to a wall and try and
fight the hell fire and see what happens, pretty cool huh? I didn't
want the cyberdemon to shoot nebulas too so I made a new set of rocket
frames, fine tuned to perfection.(for the cyberdemon) All of the
enemies that were too tuff for the bfg aren't now. The demon is the
same as the trooper, but is faster and a different color! The seargent
is a chaingunner, but he still suckz. the blood leaves pools. oh yeah,
the items! if you shoot them with the nebulizer, it blows it to a blood
and guts state but there is a bug, which i can fix and will. one
example of this is the soul sphere in E2M8. the one in the room to your
left when you start the level is a big bug. if you try to shoot the
lost soul, it shoots the soul sphere, destroying that, and leaving a
pile of, uhhh, well crap, a big pile of crap. and when you run over it,
it dumps you back to dos, so I geuss that there's a pointer somewhere
in the soul sphere. I made the fireballs(all of 'em) shootable so you
could deflect them with your nebula or your hellfire or something. I
changed the shotgun into the dbarrel shotgun, and that's cool. and
that's about it, I geuss, unless i missed something. this file is
really big,and i'm runnin out of time, so expect it in the list
sometime later, sometime after christmas or january or something.
oh, and the patch is for ultimate doom, i geuss, dunno? :p
THE UNKNWOWN SILENT STALKER... NICK :p
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 20 Dec 95 14:32:31+0100
Subject: RE: offset problem within pwad
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From: " (Michael Gummelt)" <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
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Status:
Oh no another question about sprites! (skip this if not interested)
> When I wanted to distribute the sprites, I extracted all the entries using wintex.
That's what you get for using WinTex 3.4. (totally outdated)
>the graphics would be misaligned, and some of them wouldn't even be there!
Editing WADINFO.TXT isn't for newbies. You have killed all the sprites offsets :)
Dump WinTex 3.4 please. The best is to use cut/paste from WinTex 4.1
>Any suggestions? Any better ways for releasing my sprites so that they
>install correctly?
Nothing can slavage your sprites if you screwed up the offsets.
Copy/paste from your original WAD. And use the WinTex 4.1 graphical offset
adjustment to place them correctly, if they are not.
The usual shameless plug: ftp://ftp.enst.fr/outgoing/doom/wintex41.zip (cheap!)
Olivier
------------------------------
From: Jumpstile Turner <fortunat@interpath.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:34:38 -0500
Subject: Demo problem within pwad
At 12:58 AM 12/20/95 +0100, you wrote:
>I just ran into a strange bug while reassembling H2H-Xmas.wad for deusf
>installation.
>
>I found that most of the demos I recorded for inclusion as demo*.lmp in the
>pwad would not play back correctly once the wad was compiled. However, they
>would still playback perfectly if they were external to the wad.
>
>Since they were a bit long, like 1.5 to 2 minutes, I made some that were
>only about 40-50 secs. Much better luck.
I found the same problem a long time ago. It seems that if you make the
demos longer than about 30 seconds or so they always go out synch. I never
found an answer to it. I always assumed the demos had to be at most as long
as the ones included with Doom/Doom 2 to work since then.
>Finally, I got 2 of them done so they they played back adequately, not quite
>perfect towards the end, but they look OK.
>
>After I had uploaded to cdrom.com, I found that if I allowed doom2 to just
>keep playing the demos, the 2 troublesome just became more desynched.
>
>Funny thing is, that demos recorded on 1 wad always played back correctly
>when it was internal to the wad. (Only thing big diff that I can think of is
>that I didn't do a lot of strafe running in that lmp.)
>
>Any ideas? I found this very annoying and can't figure out why this was
>happening.
If you find out why, please let me know or post it to the list.
-Scott
- ---------------------------------------------
Jumpstile Turner
fortunat@interpath.com
"Sing the Hare Hare, Dance the Hoochie Koo!"
- ---------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg <hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 18:25:46 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
This is going to be my last mail to this list this year,
so I won't be around if you try to flame me ;)
It is true that it is difficult to get both a transparent door
effect and a deep water effect in the same WAD.
Up until now the best possible solution was to use WARM
that was one of the only nodebuilders that would build a perfect
transparent door, and apply the "Drake O' Brien technique" of
transforming the linedefs of the Deep Water sectors until
the effect was good.
Another method might be to create the door sector so that you
can't see the ceiling of the transparent door
(make the door open into a small hole in the roof)
The ceiling bleed is caused when the door rises to a
height where you can see the button of it. As DOOM
can not paint the ceiling in two heights inside the
same sector this causes a problem, and hiding the ceiling
might solve the problem.
I have not had the time to test this, it's just a wild guess
based on a discussion I've had with Arthur Chang (alchang@wam.umd.edu)
who had the effect from a wad by Memento Mori.
But my opinion is that it's much easier to achieve both effects
simply by putting the sector numbers of all the transparent doors
in an option file, before the nodebuilder is used.
(Saves a lot of linedef splitting and rearrangements!)
Sadly I have not been able to test the last version of ZenNode,
but Marc Rousseau claims that he has built spcial2b.wad
with both effects in it perfectly, and I see no reason not to
trust him.
/Jens Hykkelbjerg
PS: I know I might be biased towards option files :)
PPS: The discussion I had with Arthur was about a vertical scrolling
effect (DOOM has horizontal scrolling textures by default).
He did that by making the "wrong" sector of the two that
makes up an invisible door rise. I will make sure to
upload his WAD to the sfx index page before I leave for
Christmas.
- --
Jens Hykkelbjerg | "Civilisation began with the felling
Aarhus Universitet | of the first tree; and, it will end
Email: hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk | with the felling of the last."
WWW: http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/index.html
------------------------------
From: Steven Towle <stevet3@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:31:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Demo problem within pwad
>Finally, someone else has mentioned this problem. I have been having this
>exact problem for awhile now. I believe it is internal to the engine,
>unfortunately. I want to make sure that there is no exception to this problem
>though, and the perfect way to do this is to check Memento Mori's demos out,
>considering many people will probably be getting MM. I find that in the first
>demo, the first player will die when he goes behind the two doors up the
>stairs and gets blocked by a baron. This shouldn't happen - using the demo
>externally solves the problem. I first noticed this problem a long time ago
>when I was recording on my own level. The problem seems to occur when the
>level is more complex - probably more monsters. I'm not sure if all demos
will
>corrupt in the same way, so in Momento Mori some people may notice the
>corruption before or after my previously stated point in time. I think,
>perhaps, that many people have had this problem when they state that
>their demo has become corrupt. They were probably testing it after they
>put it in their WAD file. Although it is convenient to place everything
>in the WAD file, apparently demos don't want to work.
Damn, I've benn having the same problem for a while. I've noticed that any
demo, expecially long ones and mulit-level ones go bad after some playing
time. I had someone's D1L exam .lmp in my IWAD, and it would _always_ miss
a door in E3M9. I *disected* the WAD into parts, and it worked. It still
was missing the door, even as just a .lmp. I think its just the fact that
the ability to record a level was added as a afterthought, let alone
maxdemos and
mulit-level demos.
- -Steve
Steve Towle
stevet3@ix.netcom.com
Machine tested, flame retardant, power where you need it.
------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:42:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: DHE stuff
On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Greg Lewis wrote:
> Someone mentioned to me that he did find a way to make a "shield"
> weapon for the player... he modified the BFG and its bits to get
> something that would block enemies shots. But he never did say exactly
> how he did it.
I have tried this before. Turning on the shootable bit and slowing down
or stopping the BFG shot should be enough to do it. I can't remember,
but this may have caused the game to lock up every once in a while.
------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:48:44 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Demo problem within pwad
On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Jumpstile Turner wrote:
> I found the same problem a long time ago. It seems that if you make the
> demos longer than about 30 seconds or so they always go out synch. I never
> found an answer to it. I always assumed the demos had to be at most as long
> as the ones included with Doom/Doom 2 to work since then.
I don't think it's based on time. I've seen deathmatch demos in WADs
that go on for a LONG time and never become corrupt, such as the demos in
Mountain King.
------------------------------
From: bd282@scn.org (Lois Danks)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Yet another dehacked *answer*...
>I am working on one, based on my previous sggestions.
>Mike Gummelt
>> FrancisGA
>> BTW, has anyone *tried* a deathmatch game full of player-like monsters?
>> Before you scratch the idea off as "it's too easy to be stupid", can't some-
>> one at least TRY it?
I've tried and it is a great replacement for a network game if you don't
have access to a network.
- --
Lois Danks - Port Angeles, WA - Radical Women
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #524
**********************************
