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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 522
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #522
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 20 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 522
Demo problem within pwad
Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
time length of BFG effect
RE: Demo problem within pwad
Dehacked 3.0 & Chainguns
Re: Dehacked-Q's
Re: ExMxINFO or MAPxxINF lumps (was SCRIPT lump (was WadAuthor v1.11))
Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
offset problem within pwad
Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
Re: Dehacked 3.0 & Chainguns
Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
Insane Weapons Patch!
Re: Yet another dehacked question...
Re: More DHE q's
Re: Demo problem within pwad
Re: More DHE corrections
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jelson@conline.com (Jim Elson)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 06:47:50 -0600
Subject: Demo problem within pwad
Hi all!!
I just ran into a strange bug while reassembling H2H-Xmas.wad for deusf
installation.
I found that most of the demos I recorded for inclusion as demo*.lmp in the
pwad would not play back correctly once the wad was compiled. However, they
would still playback perfectly if they were external to the wad.
Since they were a bit long, like 1.5 to 2 minutes, I made some that were
only about 40-50 secs. Much better luck.
Finally, I got 2 of them done so they they played back adequately, not quite
perfect towards the end, but they look OK.
After I had uploaded to cdrom.com, I found that if I allowed doom2 to just
keep playing the demos, the 2 troublesome just became more desynched.
Funny thing is, that demos recorded on 1 wad always played back correctly
when it was internal to the wad. (Only thing big diff that I can think of is
that I didn't do a lot of strafe running in that lmp.)
Any ideas? I found this very annoying and can't figure out why this was
happening.
- --H2Hmud
============================================================================
H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
Promo/Marketing Coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jelson@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:38:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Marc Rousseau wrote:
> Most special effects work with the default settings. Others work using
> the /nu- or /ni switches ( WARM has equivalent settings but I don't know
> which ones they are ). Now you can selectively apply these switches to
> *individual* linedefs & sectors rather than the whole .wad file. With a
> little trial & error you should be able to get them all to work
> together. You can download ZenNode, rebuild the supplied .wad and see
> for yourself.
About two months ago, Drake O'brien claimed to have a way of getting
both effects (transparent doors + invisible sectors) in the same WAD by
simply creatively manipulating the LINEDEFS. I was skeptical since I was
the one that originally made the claim that the two effects couldn't be
in the same WAD because of conflicting node tree requirements, but I
haven't spent the time to investigate it. Anyway, if he actually did get
both effects, then having such specialized functions in the node builder
would seem to be unnecessary. Drake, are you around to re-iterate what your
method was to get both effects in the same WAD?
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:47:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: time length of BFG effect
Playing deathmatch yesterday, I got 4 kills with one BFG shot: I
killed all 3 of my opponents and then killed one of them again because he
reformed in the same area (actually about 10 DOOM feet in front of me).
Conceivably, one could get 6 kills at once, or perhaps even more if you
could get someone who kept reforming in the same area. So I'm wondering
how long in game time does the BFG effect last, i.e. how long each tracer
hangs around for creatures to run into it. Or does are the tracers swept
out in a, say, clockwise fashion so that to be killed twice one has to
reform to the right (in the shooting player's view) of your previous kill
spot.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 19 Dec 95 16:02:22+0100
Subject: RE: Demo problem within pwad
>I just ran into a strange bug while reassembling H2H-Xmas.wad for deusf
>installation.
>I found that most of the demos I recorded for inclusion as demo*.lmp in the
>pwad would not play back correctly once the wad was compiled. However, they
>would still playback perfectly if they were external to the wad.
What's the big difference? Demo within the WAD or outside don't make any
difference, except maybe you are saturating some cache allocated to the WAD.
If it's an engine bug, I cannot possibly help.
It's never a good idea to have the demo inside the same PWAD as the graphics
though, with so many different game engine versions available.
Olivier
------------------------------
From: michael.hoenie@sharecity.com (MICHAEL HOENIE)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 16:03:00 -0700
Subject: Dehacked 3.0 & Chainguns
I just picked up DEHACKED 3.0 and in editing the code pointers, if the
pointer is -0-, it won't let me change it. Is this normal? I wanted to
make the troopers fire rapidly using some of the techniques here, but I
can't get some of those code pointers changed. Also: I did manage to get
them to fire rapidly, but they moved across the ground in a "sliding"
manner (very unrealistic). DOOM also nearly ALWAYS crashes hard (screen
turns to mush) and drops back to DEHACKED.
Any hints?
***
* michael.hoenie@sharecity.com ** Michael S. Hoenie **
* RM 1.3 * Eval Day 22 *
------------------------------
From: mustaine@usa.net (Tom Mustaine)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:24:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Dehacked-Q's
>From: LummoxJR@AOL.COM
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 00:20:08 -0500
>Subject: Re: DeHackEd Q's
>
>>Yet another De-hacked question.
>>Is there any way to remove the "After teleport" Delay in Doom2? So that
>>teleports can be instant like in hexen, with no pause after teleport? My TC
>>Really needs this to make the Mulit Level effect, effective. If your player
>>lags after a "Silent, Invlsible" (removed the sound, and GFX for tele) it is
>>still obvious that you have paused, or teleported. Any ideas on this one?
>
>I'll have to agree with Pandion-Knight on that one. It all depends on how
>you're removing the graphics. If all is done properly, by trimming frame
>durations to nil and not by setting the "invisible" bit (which really doesn't
>work all that well), then the problem is internal and can't be changed. If,
>in fact, you're using the outdated patch, then you should do the following:
>(This is on my page at
>http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/doom/special/DHE/index.html)
>
>Frame 130 (first in teleport flash):
> Duration: 1
> Next frame: 0
>
>Tada. You don't even need to set the total invisibility bit, as the graphic
>never has time to appear.
>
Ok Morons. Lemmie re-phrase the question since you didn't seem to be able
to grasp it correctly. I am not attempting to make the Frames disappear,
IE: Make the teleport invisible, That's REAL easy. I want the Teleport
*Pause* to Be removed. When you teleport, you pause for a second, and you
lose your forward Speed. I am asking how to remove the PAUSE *After*
Teleport, Has nothing to do with the Graphics.
Mabye you can understand the question now, before making more annoying comments.
>Lummox JR
>really sick of the obvious questions
Really sick of the stupid answers
[] Tom Mustaine Mustaine@usa.net a.k.a Paradox []
[] Master Levels Level Designer - Quarter Finalist at DM95 []
[] TeamTNT / TNT-II / Memento Mori (The Freshmaker) Member []
[] Check out the Ultimate Deathmatch - Mountain King at []
[] =- http://www.usa.net/~mustaine/mtn_king.html -= []
------------------------------
From: Denis <d.moeller@rendsburg.netsurf.de>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:10:43 +0100
Subject: Re: ExMxINFO or MAPxxINF lumps (was SCRIPT lump (was WadAuthor v1.11))
At 12:25 14.12.1995 +0100, you wrote:
>Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr> wrote:
>> > If a different de facto standard is brewing, I'd like to adopt it.
>> Ben Morris proposed to use the MAPxx header to store various data,
>> unfortunately this header is now used in HEXEN and UDOOM: It contains
>> some version string. So there's no other standard
>
>Some time ago, I proposed to use ExMyINFO and MAPxxINF for storing
>additional info, like the type of game for which a level was designed,
>the name of the level, the address of the author(s), and so on.
Okay. How are you saving your text-data in these resources? Like a
normal textfile (line per line, with <CR> at the end) or just one
string after another (with a 0 at the end of each string)?
cya
Denis
[] Denis Moeller, author of NWT v1.3 and TiC's WAD Reviews. []
[]------------ E-Mail: d.moeller@rendsburg.netsurf.de ------------[]
[] For Doom, Hexen, Quake-Links, Good WADs List & Memento Mori(!) []
[] check this out: http://www.geopages.com/Hollywood/2299/ []
------------------------------
From: gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu (Michael Gummelt)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:08:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
>
> About two months ago, Drake O'brien claimed to have a way of getting
> both effects (transparent doors + invisible sectors) in the same WAD by
> simply creatively manipulating the LINEDEFS. I was skeptical since I was
> the one that originally made the claim that the two effects couldn't be
> in the same WAD because of conflicting node tree requirements, but I
> haven't spent the time to investigate it. Anyway, if he actually did get
> both effects, then having such specialized functions in the node builder
> would seem to be unnecessary. Drake, are you around to re-iterate what your
> method was to get both effects in the same WAD?
>
In my Aliens Doom 3 levels, I have both effects. On e1m2, I have
a transparent door (the one with a fan on it) and invisible sectors (the
"invisible" bridge between two of the raised wedges. If you get special1b.zip
(something like that), that has both effects also, as well as invisible
stairs, multi-function switches, deep water, etc. You should definitely
check this out, that's how I figured out how to do all the things in my
levels (all the above effects are in my levels as well).
mike Gummelt
------------------------------
From: gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu (Michael Gummelt)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:16:55 -0500
Subject: offset problem within pwad
This is for Olivier, or whoever made deusf (although I get the same
problem with deutex). I had been making a pwad with new sprites, so I
made it have all the missing sprites (so I could use it as a pwad instead
of merging it into my IWAD). When I wanted to distribute the sprites, I
extracted all the entries using wintex. I then edited the wadinfo and
removed the entries for the original doom graphics. Then I then built
a new pwad using the edited wadinfo. When I looked at the sprites, they
were all there. But when I tried to install it by running "deusf -add..."
or "deutex -add (or -append or -merge even!)", the graphics would be
misaligned, and some of them wouldn't even be there! What the hell
happened?! Yet, when I used my original pwad (the one with my sprites
to which I added the sprites from the Iwad), it ran fine!
Here's what I haven't told you that MAY have caused a problem:
1. I included a few sounds in the pwad
2. I included a new playpal.lmp in the pwad
3. There were no new flats in the pwad, and I think the deusf and deutex
were adding sprites AND flats to my incomplete pwad.
Any suggestions? Any better ways for releasing my sprites so that they
install correctly?
Mike Gummelt
------------------------------
From: "Drake O'Brien" <a13231@mindlink.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:45:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
> About two months ago, Drake O'brien claimed to have a way of getting
>both effects (transparent doors + invisible sectors) in the same WAD by simply
>creatively manipulating the LINEDEFS. I was skeptical since I was the one that
>originally made the claim that the two effects couldn't be in the same WAD
>because of conflicting node tree requirements, but I haven't spent the time to
>investigate it. Anyway, if he actually did get both effects, then having such
>specialized functions in the node builder
>would seem to be unnecessary. Drake, are you around to re-iterate what your
>method was to get both effects in the same WAD?
heh - actually I was mistaken.
The transp door was perfect, but the deep water was a bit flawed. The water
was 'deep' but you could see partition lines in the water at the steps. It
can work fairly well in some cases, where you could place the step lines
carefully, but for most cases it's better to just go for perfect deep water
and the slightly flawed transp door.
All I did was extend the technique you already described for eliminating HOM
in doortracks by giving all the linedefs for the steps of the deep water the
greatest index numbers in the area. That technique seems to be a good
general purpose technique for a lot of special effects.
------------------------------
From: gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu (Michael Gummelt)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:28:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Dehacked 3.0 & Chainguns
> I just picked up DEHACKED 3.0 and in editing the code pointers, if the
> pointer is -0-, it won't let me change it. Is this normal? I wanted to
> make the troopers fire rapidly using some of the techniques here, but I
> can't get some of those code pointers changed. Also: I did manage to get
> them to fire rapidly, but they moved across the ground in a "sliding"
> manner (very unrealistic). DOOM also nearly ALWAYS crashes hard (screen
> turns to mush) and drops back to DEHACKED.
>
> Any hints?
Hmm, I'm not quite sure what you're saying you did, but here's how I
would go about getting the troopers to fire rapidly:
Option 1: Make the trooper's movement frames duration short (1?). But this
will make them look like they're in fast motion. So you have to
increase the number of frames by the same factor you reduced the
duration. (IE if you have 4 frames with duration 4 each, then you
reduce those to 1 each, you now need 16 frames- all with the movement
code pointer). Be sure to make the first 4 frames have the first
movement sprite, the second 4 have the second movement sprite, etc.
You may also want to reduce the duration of the firing frame.
Option 2: The above option, while giving the nicest effect, uses up a LOT
of code-pointer frames (if a frame has a code pointer, you can't make
it not have one, and vice versa- you can't put a code pointer in a
frame that doen't already have one). The second way you could get the
trooper to fire more is to make it act like the chaingun sargeant.
Use the chaingun sargeant's "check-for-line-of-sight" code pointer
after the trooper's pistol firing frame. Make sure to make the second
frame in the firing sequence loop back to the first so he continues
firing at you. He'll stop firing when you die or leave his line of
sight. Make the duration a little longer or he'll be firing a machine
gun (unless that's what you want). The main drawback to this is that
he will be stationary while he fires. You could also mix it up by
giving him different close and far attacks.
I hope this helps,
Mike
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:18:37 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Michael Gummelt wrote:
> In my Aliens Doom 3 levels, I have both effects. On e1m2, I have
> a transparent door (the one with a fan on it) and invisible sectors (the
> "invisible" bridge between two of the raised wedges. If you get special1b.zip
> (something like that), that has both effects also, as well as invisible
> stairs, multi-function switches, deep water, etc. You should definitely
> check this out, that's how I figured out how to do all the things in my
> levels (all the above effects are in my levels as well).
I should have been clearer. By transparent door, I meant a perfect
transparent door--one with no ceiling leakage or any other unwanted visual
effect. These bad visual effects can be minimized with good combinations of
textures, door widths, etc, but they are still there. Currently the only
method I know of that create a perfect transparent door is incompatible with
invisible sectors. That's why I was appealing to Drake to regurgitate his
method that can do both. Or perhaps your Aliens 3 levels do employ such a
method.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu (Michael Gummelt)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:08:26 -0500
Subject: Insane Weapons Patch!
Hey all!
I have been working diligently on Aliens Doom 3: Aliens vs Predator
since September. In the process, I have had a lot of nice ideas that
I couldn't do because they don't fit into the theme of Aliens. So
I recently compiled a few of them and made a totally new weapons patch,
and I must say it ROCKS! Here's what the new weapons are:
1. The fist is now a two-fist/kick combo.
2. The pistol is now a double pistol (like Obtic and Aliens Doom 3, but more
powerful with a better firing rate).
3. Elephant gun- 3 times as powerful as the double barrel shotgun- takes out
a Cacodemon with one shot at close range.
4. Vulcan Gun- Like in T2 and Predator- much faster than the chaingun- melt
monsters instantly!
5. Grenade Launcher- Actually, these work just like the Thermal detonators
in Dark Forces (the ones that delay, not explode on contact). It has
an extra added bonus of screwing up another player's vision if you hit
them directly with one. (IE: in deathmatch, chick one at a player- if it
hits him, his vision goes screwy and seconds later, the grenade (which
he probably can't see- even if he could, he may not be able to figure out
where to go to get away) blows up! Great for lobbing over a cliff to nail
enemies below that you can't see.
6. Health Injector- Pick up health tubes and save them up. When you need help,
use this "weapon" and you'll raise your health. This is a nice way to
store up health for when you NEED it.
7. DEATHVISION- You find four crosses. Set them up in the shape of a cross with
each one facing each other. From then on, everything you look at will be
struck down by lighning from God (Divine Intervention!) and consumed by flames.
These will stay in effect until you pick them back up OR until another player
steals them from you. All the other player has to do is find them and pick
them up- ceasing your DeathVision and enabling themselves to have it.
As an extra added bonus, the first time you use one of the crosses, it will
give you the lighsabe if you don't already have it (a gift from god).
8. Laser Sword- Like the light saber from star wars, this thing can take down
any minor monster with one hit, and larger ones with 4-6 hits (like caco
demons). Unfortunately, I can't get it to block or deflect missile attacks.
Still working on a new weapon to replace the Double Barreled Shotgun- I may keep it
the same- it will be faster than the Elephant Gun.
With weapons of this magnitude, only a wimp would play on anything less than
UltraViolence, and Nightmare is fair. Plus, DeathMatch with moonsters (and without)
is REALLY COOL!
Other changes:
When the player dies, if the person who killed him is still in the room, he may be
hit by an explosion, knocked into the air, or struck down by GOD.
Most monsters are lighter- so they really go flying when hit hard or
when they explode.
The Cyberdemon occaisionally shoots tracking rockets.
Max health is 500, max ammos are raised too. I'll probably drop the max health,
though.
All bullet weapons use the same ammo.
The archvile will not respawn dead monsters. Instead, it has a far attack of
flames and a lift, and a close attack of firing a blue sphere that follows
you through walls and will respawn any monster it comes across (even archviles).
You can shoot it down if you're luck and fast enough, but the archviles can
always release another! (Credit for this idea goes to Jim Davis at JAD7048@tntech.edu)
I'd like to make this eventually into a kind of Doom III patch with cool new and
modified monsters. The main theme would be that you are fighting hellspawn again,
but this time God is aiding you (thus the God Vision Crosses and the post-mortem
strikeback). I'm talking to someone else whose doing something similar, so
maybe we can work together- any outside suggestions would be cool too.
Mike Gummelt
------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 16:14:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Yet another dehacked question...
On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Spencer Boomhower wrote:
> >Sorry to say it, but I'm dubious. With the tools we're limited to, I
> >doubt a reasonably experienced DOOM player wouldn't notice that it's a
> >stupid impostor they're facing as opposed to a real player.
>
> I think it's possible to make this a great Deathmatch without perfectly
> simulating a real player; in a Deathmatch of this type the fun part is
> using the fake marines as camouflage. The best players figure out how to
> act like a stupid impostor until they have a good shot.
It would be amusing, but I think far too easy to master. It isn't
difficult to look like a bad player -- it is to look like a good one.
------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 16:06:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: More DHE q's
On Mon, 18 Dec 1995 LummoxJR@AOL.COM wrote:
> Sorry, Gene, but I believe Greg was right on that first guess.
> I don't think using hijacked frames for the player's weapon will work in the
> way you suggest, as the game really doesn't care if you're in that 1-90some
> range of weapons frames- what makes it a weapon frame is the fact that it was
> invoked by the game itself.
> So, copying frame 77, for example, to frame 175 should do nothing (as long as
> frame 174, the trooper's first normal frame, knows not to jump to 175, which
> would cause a crash), unless you alter it. And once altered, it should have
> exactly the same effect it would have if it had been done to frame 77.
No, no, no... You misunderstood. I realize that would happen. I meant
copying the player frame to the SS Trooper's frame, JUST so that you have
a code pointer available there. Obviously, there is no code pointer on
the player's firing frames (this doesn't have to do at ALL with the
weapons frames) so you need to find one that does. The first SS Trooper
frame does have a code pointer (like any other frames that are just for
movement) so you could use that one. Insert the mancubus fireball shot
in there and it should work, as long as when the player fires it will get
to that frame.
------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 16:30:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Demo problem within pwad
On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Jim Elson wrote:
> I found that most of the demos I recorded for inclusion as demo*.lmp in the
> pwad would not play back correctly once the wad was compiled. However, they
> would still playback perfectly if they were external to the wad.
Finally, someone else has mentioned this problem. I have been having this
exact problem for awhile now. I believe it is internal to the engine,
unfortunately. I want to make sure that there is no exception to this problem
though, and the perfect way to do this is to check Memento Mori's demos out,
considering many people will probably be getting MM. I find that in the first
demo, the first player will die when he goes behind the two doors up the
stairs and gets blocked by a baron. This shouldn't happen - using the demo
externally solves the problem. I first noticed this problem a long time ago
when I was recording on my own level. The problem seems to occur when the
level is more complex - probably more monsters. I'm not sure if all demos will
corrupt in the same way, so in Momento Mori some people may notice the
corruption before or after my previously stated point in time. I think,
perhaps, that many people have had this problem when they state that
their demo has become corrupt. They were probably testing it after they
put it in their WAD file. Although it is convenient to place everything
in the WAD file, apparently demos don't want to work.
------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 16:09:52 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: More DHE corrections
On Mon, 18 Dec 1995 LummoxJR@AOL.COM wrote:
> >I'm not entirely convinced this will work as well with a marine that uses
> >a chaingun or plasma gun - it seems to me he might be moving a little
> >"choppily" as he stops when he fires for an instant, moves a little bit,
> >stops and fires for an instant, etc... Although I may be wrong - maybe
> >the pause is small enough to be indiscernable.
>
> Nope.
> The way to get a repeating weapon is to loop the attack sequence around. If
> done properly, there will be a line-of-sight check in one frame, and firing
> in another, with no pulling out the weapon and putting it back, as is usually
> the case with monsters.
> The moving is done only during the moving frames, unless one of the attack
> frames is given the proper code pointer.
> I think your impression of the effect is that the chance of attacking during
> a moving sequence would be increased- not so. This is internal to the game,
> and as such is unhackable.
Sigh. You misunderstand again. I had been talking about someone's
attempt to have a fake marine move while he fires his weapon. Yes,
believe it or not, I *know* that to loop the firing frame you set the
last frame in the firing sequence to go to the first frame in the
sequence, sticking a line-of-sight check in one of the frames. The
proposal was to also stick a movement code pointer in there, so the fake
marine moves while he shoots. I said that I thought it might appear
slightly choppy.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #522
**********************************
