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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 536
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #536
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Saturday, 30 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 536
Re: Proof of monster strafing
weapons again ...
Re: Who made this Aliens TC??????
Re: Auto-determine WAD type.
Re: Who made this Aliens TC??????
Re: D**mIII TOTAL CONVERSION
NodeBuilder/RejectMapper
Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERS
Re: Ceiling Monsters.
speed optimization
Packet reading progress (was Newbie Intro)
announce: hexen editing/scripting mailing list
Re: Re: D**mIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Re: Auto-determine WAD type.
Re: Newbie Introduction
Re: D**mIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Re: Packet reading progress (was Newbie Intro)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: raistlin@horizon.hit.net (Raistlin Majere)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 19:24:17 -0600
Subject: Re: Proof of monster strafing
>>
>>
>> Should we REALLY have a whole bunch of marines running about? When the
>> real marines are killing the fake ones, they'll eventually run out.
>> We've heard how difficult it can be to stay alive when all of these fake
>> marines are after you, so we probably couldn't use -respawn then unless
>> we spread them over a large level. If the level wasn't particularly
>> large, we might just have a handful of fake marines, so we could turn on
>> -respawn to get the effect that the fakes are coming back to life. Of
>> course, their bodies don't stay when they respawn like real marine bodies
>> do, but that's a small price to pay for added realism. This way, we
>> wouldn't have tons and tons of marines around - although we might lack
>> the diverse 'types' of marines that could be used.
>>
>
>I think it would be OK to take out the attack of the fake marines.
>Or is that against the original idea. I thought the idea was to spice
>up death match. Or I think it maybe was to make a DM practice. Hmmmm.
>
Couldn't you give the marines differant weapons? One dude running
around with a rocket launcher another with a plasma gun etc...
Nathan Lind
raistlin@horizon.hit.net
------------------------------
From: thomas =?iso-8859-1?Q?m=F6ller?= <t.moeller@rendsburg.netsurf.de>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 07:33:29 +0100
Subject: weapons again ...
Is there a place where I can get your DF detonator ? ;)=20
(sick of trial and error)
cya
thomas
=B7=95|=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=95thomas moeller - a=B7k=B7a=B7=
vorphalack of TiC=95=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7|=95=B7
=B7=95|=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=95e-mail :=
t.moeller@rendsburg.netsurf.de=95=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7=B7|=95=B7
=B7=95|=B7=95homepage : http://www.rendsburg.netsurf.de/people/thomas=95=B7|=
=95=B7
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 02:42:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Who made this Aliens TC??????
Aliens TC is about 2 years old and was made by Justin Fisher. The
Aliens total conversion called Aliens Doom 3: Aliens vs Predator is
the one that has been mentioned lately, and is being made by myself,
Michael Gummelt. You can find it at:
ftp.cdrom.com/idgames/themes/aliens/aliendm3
The filename is "ad3.zip". It has new weapons, about 20+ all-new monsters,
etc. The only release right now is an early beta. I have a much more
advanced engine done now, but I have only one new level and only a few
new graphics so I'm holding off releasing the next beta until I have
some stuff that people will notice right away is new (most people won't
notice bug fixes or .exe improvements). Even so, the beta I released
is really something, so if you don' mind downloading it (the next beta
release will be much smaller in size), check it out and let me know
what you think (the more people bother me to get it out, the sooner
i will).
Mike Gummelt
On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, Raistlin Majere wrote:
> Now who was it that made the Aliens TC that everyone is talking
> about? Can someone tell me where to get it? What is the file name?
>
>
------------------------------
From: Steven Towle <stevet3@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 06:22:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Auto-determine WAD type.
At 10:42 PM 12/26/95 -0500, you wrote:
>What methods are the editor authors out there using to determine if a
>given WAD is a Hexen type or a Doom/Doom2/Heretic type? My original
>idea was to check the size of the LINEDEFS resource and see if it was
>divisible by 14 or 16. Then I found a WAD with a LINEDEFS resource of
>size 8960, which is divisible by 14 AND 16! You can't use the THINGS
>resource, because the sizes are 10 and 20. I don't want to have to
>check for the presence of a BEHAVIOR resource, because it's possible to
>make a Hexen level w/o a BEHAVIOR resource, no?
My guess is this: See what the entry is (MAPxx or ExMx) if MAPxx, look
for a BEHAVIOR resource. (No, its impossible to make a Hexen level
without the BEHAVIOR lump.) If a ExMx level, look at the sidedef definitions.
If they entries like WALLxxxx or something odd like that, its Heretic. Peace.
- -Steve (/me thinks I answered more than the question asked.)
Steve Towle
stevet3@ix.netcom.com (Dipstick on iFrag)
Machine tested, flame retardant, power where you need it.
------------------------------
From: joost schuur <jschuur@jalad.globalnews.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:47:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Who made this Aliens TC??????
On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, Raistlin Majere wrote:
> Now who was it that made the Aliens TC that everyone is talking
> about? Can someone tell me where to get it? What is the file name?
there's several versions. i believe the original was made by
justin fisher. all aliens material can be found at
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/themes/aliens/
</j>
_ ___ ___
===| |/ _ \/ __|=====================================================/|=====
| | (_) \__ \ joost schuur - jschuur@globalnews.com \`o.O'
/ |\___/|___/ http://jalad.globalnews.com/~jschuur =( )=
=|__/===============================================================u=====
------------------------------
From: philip <philip@thepoint.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 11:35:47 -0800
Subject: Re: D**mIII TOTAL CONVERSION
I've got another idea stolen from another game, a guy that is under water
and then pops out and shots you (stolen from Hexen). I'm not sure if
this would work. You'd probably need to use two different things to do
it, but it would be cool.
Another question about dehacked now:
Is it posible to have an one frame monster that shots in one direction
continuously once the map shows up? When I tried it, doom looked up.
phil
------------------------------
From: michael.hoenie@sharecity.com (MICHAEL HOENIE)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 09:51:00 -0700
Subject: NodeBuilder/RejectMapper
Can anyone post a short list of the top programs that you use for editing
all aspects of DOOM levels? Such as DEU, NWT, DEHACKED, DMMUSIC, etc? Plus
list the filename (if possible) and the ftp. site where to pick it up?
Thanks.
- -+-
* michael.hoenie@sharecity.com << Michael S. Hoenie >>
------------------------------
From: michael.hoenie@sharecity.com (MICHAEL HOENIE)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 07:57:00 -0700
Subject: Re: DoomIII TOTAL CONVERS
- -->Michael,
- --> Just for the record, my 25 monsters include things like aliens and
- -->predators as well as 6 friendly marines, 4 enemy marines, stationary
- -->objects that harm the player if it gets too close, as well as other
- -->things like a key that behaves like a cat, and shootable obstacles
- -->like grates and glass.
What version of DOOM are you using for this conversion? I do understand
there are a lot of places in there for extra monsters, but most of them
would have to be without a lot of frames, correct?
- -+-
* michael.hoenie@sharecity.com << Michael S. Hoenie >>
------------------------------
From: michael.hoenie@sharecity.com (MICHAEL HOENIE)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 14:53:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Ceiling Monsters.
- -->I just figured it out. After I brought up the idea I thought it would be
- -->good to make sure it works. Once I tried it the same happened to me.
- -->What I did was set travels over ledges to on, along with floating, no
- -->gravity and hangs from ceiling, and it worked!
- -->
- -->I got another wonderful idea. How about a spot that shots at you from a
- -->hole in the wall, like in hexen? It would only have to two frames big,
- -->one for normal, one for shooting.
- -->
- -->Also, is there a refrence on what everything does for dehacked? I
- -->haven't found one yet.
There is only ONE problem with a ceiling-mounted-monster... In that DOOM
won't let you "walk" underneath the monster, even if you are on floor
height 0 and ceiling height 500. The monster will use the area within the
sector from top to bottom.
In Rise of the Triad from Apogee, you can stand on another player or
monster's head...
I have not yet tried toggling the ability to stop the player from walking
through it... That may solve the above mentioned problem. However, as so
noted previously, monsters slowly descend down to your level and I have
yet to find a fix to this problem.
This problem is also noted in sectors next to each other with different
heights. It is very odd to see a trooper fire at you from a ledge that is
100 above your sector... The trooper fires and hits a demon, the demon
turns around and chomps the wall thus killing the trooper. Very poorly
written and I'm suprised that in the patches that ID's given us (up to 1.9
in DOOM I) this hasn't been fixed (ie, if sector is etc... above monster
area, monster can't attack the other monster unless using far attack
parameters with firepower (ie. fireball, etc.))
It would seem to me that to make a better "turret-mounted-monster" would
to create a "roving droid" like the Daliks (sp?) off Doctor-Who. By using
five frames in a row that all fire, you can make the monster fire the same
weapon (ie. imp fireball) to make it look like a "laser".
- -+-
* michael.hoenie@sharecity.com << Michael S. Hoenie >>
------------------------------
From: michael.hoenie@sharecity.com (MICHAEL HOENIE)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 09:34:00 -0700
Subject: speed optimization
- -->I am having a real *bitch* of a time getting a wad to run smoothly.
- -->It has been REJECTED with both idbsp and WARM to no avail.
- -->idbsp seemed to do a better job, though.
- -->
- -->The thing is ~300k, (before graphics/etc.) which is part of the problem.
- -->I notice the chunkiness when turning some corners to reveal another area.
- -->
- -->What really starts slowing it down is when I get the monsters in there.
- -->
- -->My question is if my monster-flagging habits have anything to do with
- -->the speed. I flag most of my monsters as deaf, and keep many others
- -->held in off-map "storage" areas to teleport in at the proper times.
- -->
- -->Would a dozen or so deaf monsters all seeing the player at once be
- -->part of the cause? How about a bunch of monsters hearing the player all
- -->at once?
Having many monsters DOES slow down the game only considering the speed of
your machine. I have a WAD that contains hundreds of monsters and it
speeds up the more you kill them off. But when I play it on a dx4/100
rather than a dx2/66, the speed isn't a factor.
To clean up this problem, I have created a simple Dehacked Patch to clean
up the monsters. Once they die, after a delay of 100, they explode into
slop. After that, they fizzle out like a plasma blast hitting a wall and
are then eliminated from site. This helps to clean up the place and dead
bodies aren't lying around. Then again, some people like to walk through
tons of carnage!! <major grin!>
There ain't nothing like slappin baddies with lead!
"Chunkiness" or hesitation in particular areas can be caused by the number
of transparent sidedefs in view. DOOM can only show so many in the engine
(just as you can only have so many objects in view before they will start
dissapearing...). Do you have large open spaces with lots of linedefs?
I have had trouble with LARGE wad files causing DOOM to crash. I have
stuck to simple "on-scale" wads. You can also have problems with normal
textures having textures when they aren't supposed to, unless they are
things such as "midvine" or some other "see-through" texture.
- -+-
* michael.hoenie@sharecity.com << Michael S. Hoenie >>
------------------------------
From: "M[tm] 'Matt trademark' Walsh" <mtmr@walsh.dme.battelle.org>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 12:34:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Packet reading progress (was Newbie Intro)
Well last night I succeeded in finally being able to read deathmatch packets.
It was really late when it finally worked so I only got to analyze the data for
a short time.
Because of the way I hacked this, I am only seeing one person's node right now.
So I can do stuff to/from this guy and see what happens.
So far, I am certain I can now determine:
- -when the node I'm monitoring shoots his weapon
- -when he turns right, left, goes forward, goes backward, etc.
- -when he switches weapons (and I can tell what weapon he selected
and...
- -WHEN HE DIES!!!!
Now the last one is kind of weird...the shooting and moving is really easy to
pick up; there is a field that is '0' if nothing happens and goes to some other
predictable value when he moves/shoots, etc.
But then there's this other really weird field that's 2 bytes long - and it
shows up again 3-4 fields down the packet. The number changes when the guy
moves (or is moved by getting shot). I thought it might be absolute
coordinates/rotation, but the value doesn't seem to ever go back to the same
value even if I bring my buy back to the same spot twice. BUT I do know that
when the player dies, it invariably goes to zero.
Only problem is, I don't know WHO killed him!
Still hoping someone might know more. I'm thinking this mystery field might be
a stream of values that represents some sort of message; so I can't see what's
going on without capturing a sequence of values.
I now understand that each player's Doom software is simply using the network
data to simulate a monster. This would mean that they don't have to send the #
of frags in a packet, or other info such as 'I've been shot'. But then again...
- -What about the 'end of level' deathmatch score summary screen
- -Does it make sense that the 4 stations can keep the player's status' on their
own with only movement and shooting commands? I think there must be some kind
of verification field.
===== M(tm) mtm@walsh.dme.battelle.org ====
"Standing on a hill in the mountains of dreams, telling myself its not as hard,
hard, hard, as it seems."
My mailer limits my sig to 4 lines. But ingeniously I bypassed this problem by
------------------------------
From: joost schuur <jschuur@jalad.globalnews.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 17:44:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: announce: hexen editing/scripting mailing list
i'd like to announce a new mailing list dedicated to avanced
hexen editing and scripting. it's purpose is to serve as a forum for the
kind of advanced editing questions that this list has been dedicated to
but tailored to hexen's own peculiarities, in particular acs scripting.
the keyword here is 'advanced'. please read all the documents
available to this subject before attempting to post. try not to post
about anything that has no relevance to hexen either.
some of the authors of hexen related utils (such as hck or deacc) are
already subscribed, as are the hexen faq/spec people and makers of script
intesive hexen wads.
subscriptions may be made by sending a mail to
hexen-editing-request@jalad.globalnews.com with the word 'subscribe' in
the body of the mail. postings should be made to
hexen-editing@jalad.globalnews.com from there on.
enjoy,
</j>
_ ___ ___
===| |/ _ \/ __|=====================================================/|=====
| | (_) \__ \ joost schuur - jschuur@globalnews.com \`o.O'
/ |\___/|___/ http://jalad.globalnews.com/~jschuur =( )=
=|__/===============================================================u=====
------------------------------
From: Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 22:20:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: D**mIII TOTAL CONVERSION
In your message dated Saturday 30, December 1995 you wrote :
>I've got another idea stolen from another game, a guy that is under water
>and then pops out and shots you (stolen from Hexen). I'm not sure if
>this would work. You'd probably need to use two different things to do
>it, but it would be cool.
You wouldn't probably... Try this:
1) Make the walking frames like the sliding underwater motion.
2) Make the shooting frame to start in the water, coming out and then going back
in, and finally...
3) The dying frames as flying out of the water..
>Another question about dehacked now:
>Is it posible to have an one frame monster that shots in one direction
>continuously once the map shows up? When I tried it, doom looked up.
Fuck knows.. I'm not much of a dehacked person (could somebody send me a list of
code-pointers (so I could get started!?) )
Seeya, Jim.
------------------------------
From: "James S. Blachly" <stew@intellinet.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 18:05:54 -0600
Subject: Re: Auto-determine WAD type.
[snip]
>>divisible by 14 or 16. Then I found a WAD with a LINEDEFS resource of
>>size 8960, which is divisible by 14 AND 16! You can't use the THINGS
>>resource, because the sizes are 10 and 20. I don't want to have to
>>check for the presence of a BEHAVIOR resource, because it's possible to
>>make a Hexen level w/o a BEHAVIOR resource, no?
>
>My guess is this: See what the entry is (MAPxx or ExMx) if MAPxx, look
>for a BEHAVIOR resource. (No, its impossible to make a Hexen level
>without the BEHAVIOR lump.) If a ExMx level, look at the sidedef definitions.
>If they entries like WALLxxxx or something odd like that, its Heretic. Peace.
>
Right, the best thing to do would be to look at textures, sector and
linedef. Also check for custom textures in the wad though, 'cause there
could be, say for the sake of example, a Hexen wad with a custom,
author-made texture called STARTAN3 or whatever.
- -james.
James S. Blachly(R) is a registered trademark of God. Design is
(c)Copyright 1980 God. All rights reserved.
------------------------------
From: "James S. Blachly" <stew@intellinet.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 18:03:00 -0600
Subject: Re: Newbie Introduction
>You know, the reason I shied away from this in the past is that the
>problem was always, to try to have a spectator node of some sort and
>that required something that would be an awful lot like DOOM itself.
> This (a score board) isn't even close to as difficult...I mean you
>know where DOOM puts the score on the screen right? If one were to
>write the aforementioned tsr that did nothing but a screen capture
>of that area of the screen where the score is drawn...and shipped
>that down to the scoreboard every once in a while... Hmmm, you
>wouldn't be able to do it every second but, every 5 seconds or so you
>could...
>
Well, I guess this sounds good, but in reality I don't know if it would be
possible, because of the way doom operates. Doom takes over certain
interrupt vectors such as the timer, keyboard, video, etc. It also operates
in the 386 processors protected mode.. Don't get me wrong, I don't know too
much about protected mode, but I'm not sure that a TSR, started in real mode
(dos) would be able to manipulate the system when it is in protected mode.
But.. if this is right, how do ipxsetup and sersetup work? I don't know.
Anyway, the best thing to do would be to scour ipxsetup.c netdoom.c etc. and
build from them.
Good luck to all that try anything with network!
- -james.
James S. Blachly(R) is a registered trademark of God. Design is
(c)Copyright 1980 God. All rights reserved.
------------------------------
From: philip <philip@thepoint.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 20:46:11 -0800
Subject: Re: D**mIII TOTAL CONVERSION
Jim Wraith wrote:
>
> In your message dated Saturday 30, December 1995 you wrote :
> >I've got another idea stolen from another game, a guy that is under water
> >and then pops out and shots you (stolen from Hexen). I'm not sure if
> >this would work. You'd probably need to use two different things to do
> >it, but it would be cool.
>
> You wouldn't probably... Try this:
>
> 1) Make the walking frames like the sliding underwater motion.
>
> 2) Make the shooting frame to start in the water, coming out and then going back
> in, and finally...
>
> 3) The dying frames as flying out of the water..
But then you could shot it while it was underwater, and that wouldn't be near
as fun! You would probably make the shotting frame a whole new monster. I
don't know.
>
> >Another question about dehacked now:
> >Is it posible to have an one frame monster that shots in one direction
> >continuously once the map shows up? When I tried it, doom looked up.
>
> Fuck knows.. I'm not much of a dehacked person (could somebody send me a list of
> code-pointers (so I could get started!?) )
>
> Seeya, Jim.Find the dehacked grab bag by Lee Gaiteri. It has a whole bunch of neat-o
dehacked stuff (including pointers).
phil
------------------------------
From: "James S. Blachly" <stew@intellinet.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 18:14:28 -0600
Subject: Re: Packet reading progress (was Newbie Intro)
At 12:34 PM 12/29/95 -0500, you wrote:
>Well last night I succeeded in finally being able to read deathmatch packets.
>It was really late when it finally worked so I only got to analyze the data
for
>a short time.
>
>Because of the way I hacked this, I am only seeing one person's node right
now.
>So I can do stuff to/from this guy and see what happens.
>
>So far, I am certain I can now determine:
>
>-when the node I'm monitoring shoots his weapon
>-when he turns right, left, goes forward, goes backward, etc.
>-when he switches weapons (and I can tell what weapon he selected
>and...
>-WHEN HE DIES!!!!
>
[snip]
>
>I now understand that each player's Doom software is simply using the network
>data to simulate a monster. This would mean that they don't have to send
the #
>of frags in a packet, or other info such as 'I've been shot'. But then
again...
>
>-What about the 'end of level' deathmatch score summary screen
>-Does it make sense that the 4 stations can keep the player's status' on their
>own with only movement and shooting commands? I think there must be some kind
>of verification field.
>
I just had the thought that perhaps frags, or who kills whom is NOT
transmitted in a packet, at all..
Since the doom software running on one persons particular computer is the
only one that "cares" at that point its frag count, there would be no need
to transmit it to the other nodes.. So, it may NOT be possible in doom.
I'm sure it is in ROTT because in it you can see all players frag counts...
The only time I could see that the doom executeable needs to send the frag
counts is at the end of the level.
Remember, they wanted the network code to be as fast as possible, so it
probably has several kludges, quick hacks and the format is as simple as
they could make it..
Has anyone thought to ask id about the frags being transmitted in a packet?
- -james.
James S. Blachly(R) is a registered trademark of God. Design is
(c)Copyright 1980 God. All rights reserved.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #536
**********************************
