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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 515
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #515
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 14 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 515
Re: WadAuthor v1.11
Re: WadAuthor v1.11
Re: Yet another dehacked question...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: us018032@interramp.com
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:33:03 -0500
Subject: Re: WadAuthor v1.11
>welll - when dos turns into a multitasking system of any kind, i'm sure
>we'll update the dos editors to take advantage of its new DDE features ;)
>
>- ben
I've responded to Raphael off the list to find out how he's doing the
copy/paste functionality between programs. It sounds like the DOS editors
of which he speaks use a common file format to exchange data. If he'll tell
me the format, I'll surely add that feature to WadAuthor as well.
While I'm on the subject, Oliver (sp?) suggested that editor authors embed
the script code for Hexen wads within the file as a SCRIPTS resource. I did
this with WadAuthor, and I was wondering if you and other authors were
planning to support this or not? If a different de facto standard is
brewing, I'd like to adopt it.
Thanks in advance.
John
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From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:40:50 EST
Subject: Re: WadAuthor v1.11
us018032@interramp.com ,in message <199512121251.HAA04668@smtp1.interramp.com>,
wrote:
> > So, do any of the wad editors use a common format for cut&paste? Can you
> >Cut from DCK and Paste into DEU?
>
> What you describe is almost innately impossible -- two DOS applications
> sharing data through a common "clipboard". To my knowledge, there is no
> standard format because of this basic DOS limitation.
Well, I was imagining the Windows version of two editors. I pulled the
specific names out of my ass. I don't imagine many people run two major DOS
applications at the same time.
> A plain old wad file format really isn't sufficient unless you force the
> user to always copy complete sectors. There isn't a good way to handle the
> sidedef sector assignments without using a custom format.
Uh, I'd like to hear about this custom format. I can't think of any good
way to handle the sector assignments. In fact, when I add cut&paste between
editors, I'll have it wipe sector assignments when retrieving a non-sector
"selection" (X window system terminology) from another editor.
Oops, now that I read an ancient note, I'd just tell the user not to do it
:) You got me beat
> That's why I trumpet this as a feature of WadAuthor. One can paste
> sub-sectors freely between different sectors or as stand-alone sectors --
> even across the various wadgames.
Uh, that's a good trick. I don't know what your logic is on the
sub-sectors thing. In PFME I'd have you paste sectors and the do a
guess-sidedefs to make sure you don't have any inconsistencies.
Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se ,in message <199512121423.PAA07907@chapelle.eed.
ericsson.se>, wrote:
> saved in a WAD file without any problems. As a matter of fact, the clipboard
> in DEU 5.3 is a special level which is not displayed in any window. And it
> could be saved in a WAD file like the other levels. I don't understand why
Gee, that sounds exactly like PFME. Great minds think alike.
As food-for-thought, here's the description of PFME's cut&paste. Feel free
to respond to me with "my editor does X better!". That way if I ever get
around to finishing the HeXen port, I can add popular features:
- -----
Copy: places a copy of the target objects into the cut buffer
Cut: deletes the target objects after copying them into the cut
buffer
Copy Append: adds the target objects to the cut buffer without
emptying it first. (handy for copying sectors and the
items within).
Cut Append: deletes the target objects after appending them to the
cut buffer.
Paste: inserts a copy of the cut buffer into the mission at
the menu activation position.
Undo: Reverses the last change.
Redo: Undoes an undo.
What gets stored in the cut buffer is a function of what got cut.
Sectors: Cutting sectors stores a copy of all target sector
information with all associated sidedefs, linedefs and vertices. When
pasted new sectors are created in the target mission with the
attributes from the sectors in the cut buffer.
Sidedefs: Cutting sidedefs stores a copy of all target sidedefs with
all associated linedefs and vertices. Sector references are unchanged
and when the sidedefs are pasted back into the mission, the sectors
referred to are augmented by the pasted sidedefs.
Pasting into a different mission will give predictable, but probably
useless results.
Linedefs: Cutting linedefs stores a copy of all target linedefs with
their supporting vertices. Sidedef references are not stored. When
pasted, the linedefs (with their tags, type and flags intact) and
vertices are all that come through.
Vertices: When you cut vertices, all you get is the vertices.
Things: When you cut things, all you get is things.
------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:46:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Yet another dehacked question...
On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Michael Gummelt wrote:
> but the problem is, the BFG will not harm a player unless it is shot BY
> ANOTHER PLAYER. This would be a dead giveaway if a fake marine fired
> a BFG at you, it hit, then didn't hit YOU. In my patch, I have a monster
> that has a BFG effect when it dies. You can try to make one of the monster
> projectiles a BFG shot (just copy it over), but I'm not sure if that will work
> right. You may need to add in a movement codepointer at the death of the
This has never been a problem for me - I made a patch a while back with
an earlier version of DHE when the code pointers weren't available that
still had the area-effect of the BFG shot when a monster fired it. I may
have to dig around for how I did it, but I'm positive it was quite simple
such as copying the BFG shot over the projectile like you say. I could
have sworn that in REVENGE.DEH the BFG shot DID have an area-effect -
I'll have to download that again to check. Using code pointers, I was
able to simulate a marine firing a BFG9000, including the sound it makes
when preparing to fire. A main problem with making a fake marine look
real (and I doubt you'll have an answer for this one) is that they always
stop walking to shoot - and extremely unrealistic maneuver. One time,
though, I was toying with copying the monster frames (not the graphics)
over the player's frames. The result is when you were shot, you would
start moving by yourself (the monster frames taking over) and when you
fired, you would move simultaneously. There may be some possibility there.
When you made your aliens patch (I'll download that and see if I can
help), did you make the friendly marines by removing there attack frames
and causing them to attack only when injured? I had hoped there was a
different way around this, so that they would attack the aliens first,
but I haven't found any. I believe this technique was first demonstrated
in the THEMES WAD. If you didn't, I'd appreciate to know what exactly
you did.
> different combination of attacks/behaviour (like a red marine that punches
> up close, but from far away fires a rocket then switches to a chaingun and
> strafes you until you're out of his line of sight!). Also, you can copy
I believe you are getting a little ahead of yourself here. As you know,
he'd only strafe if he ran at you using the lost soul code pointer and
you dodged, watching him as he turned to face you while he ran.
Switching weapons when up close would be somewhat unrealistic, especially
if the fake player came up to you, punched, and when you moved back fired
a missile at you. Also, with chaingunners and marines with plasma guns,
whenever they fired a stream at you, they would just be a stationary
target until they stopped firing and started moving.
> There is another problem with simulating DM and making fake marines, but I can't
> remember it right now. I'll let you know if I do.
You may be thinking of the fact that fake marines don't jump off cliffs.
This can be fixed, however - but with a drawback. I believe you simply
have to set the bits "travels over cliffs" and "floating" and they will
happily jump off after you. However, the drawback is that they "think"
they can fly, so if you're standing on one side of a thin wall, the fake
marine is standing on the other side, and there is space above the wall,
the fake marine will continue walking into the wall to get to you,
thinking it will just fly up and over it. This goes for anything between
you and the fake marine that has space above it. Of course, you could
think of this as him waiting to ambush you, but that's kind of stretching
it...
Anyway, I hope this clarified some points for both of you.
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End of doom-editing-digest V1 #515
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