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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 514
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #514
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 14 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 514
WEEKLY REMINDER : Beginner's Questions
Hexen scripts - ???
Beginner's Question
Re: Hexen scripts - ???
Re: WEEKLY REMINDER : Beginner's Questions
DeHackEd help offer again.
Re: Hexen scripts - ???
Yet another dehacked question...
Re: Hexen scripts - ???
Re: Yet another dehacked question...
add sprites
Re: WadAuthor v1.11
Sprites Replacements in HeXen: DeuSF 3.8 available
Re: DeHackEd help offer
Re: WAD cut & paste (was Re: WadAuthor v1.11)
Re: WAD cut & paste (was Re: WadAuthor v1.11)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 19:58:55 -0500
Subject: WEEKLY REMINDER : Beginner's Questions
This message is being posted at the request of the list's caretakers.
In this you will find: the purpose of this list, how to get answers
to less than 'expert' questions, how to get info about the list, and
what can get you kicked off the list. If you are new to this list,
please take a moment to read the short note that follows. It will
help to get you up to speed and, may save you some grief in the future.
====================================================================
FROM: the list caretaker; *** A REMINDER ***
The DOOM-editing list is not a list aimed at newcomers to
DOOM-editing. Its purpose is to provide discussions on *advanced*
DOOM editing techniques, as well as discussions on the variations of
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In the past, there has been much moaning about new subscribers asking what
old-hands feel to be "typical newbie questions", usually posted in
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Well, help is at hand. The "Beginners Questions Service" can act as a
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conceited lot that they are. It works like this: if you have a question but
don't know whether it's advanced or not, and would like to avoid any
potential embarrassment from asking the question in front of the whole
list, you are encouraged to mail it in the first instance to:
John Wakelin : johnw@datametrics.com
Your question will either be answered or, if deemed appropriate for the
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you can take a toasting, right?
**NOTE: If your questions are prefixed with the code WQ: in the subject
field (e.g. Subject: WQ: Sprites), they will be processed quicker because
they will be brought to light sooner!**
====================================================================
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CONSIDER THIS YOUR WARNING.
=====================================================================
This reminder will be posted here weekly, with the subject title:
WEEKLY REMINDER : Beginner's Questions
=====================================================================
-= John Wakelin =-
-= .sig copyright violator =-
-= TeamTNT - Member =-
------------------------------
From: "J. Kugelman" <kugelman@mnsinc.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 22:40:30 PST
Subject: Hexen scripts - ???
Right now, I'm using Heth for my level editing purposes. I've gotten
everything working fine up to now. Polyobjects are no problem now, and
I thought they were the end. But now, scripts.
I've created two new almost identical scripts for a level I'm working
on. ACC gives me no errors after compilation, but when I play the game,
nothing happens. I've come up with two possible reasons: 1) Heth doesn't
support new scripts or does not save them correctly or 2) Hexen does not
allow new scripts. I'm hoping for the former, which can be corrected.
I am currently using Heth 1.05, the newest version, AFAIK.
-John
script 10 (void)
{
{
int var0;
delay(const:32);
var0 = 0;
while(var0 < 6)
{
Thing_Spawn(9+var0, T_BRIDGE, 90);
var0++;
}
}
print(s:"STAIRS HAVE APPEARED");
}
script 12 (void)
{
{
int var0;
delay(const:32);
var0 = 0;
while(var0 < 6)
{
Thing_Spawn(16+var0, T_BRIDGE, 90);
var0++;
}
}
print(s:"STAIRS HAVE APPEARED");
}
Note: This is only extracted info, not the entire file.
------------------------------
From: Tbanderson@AOL.COM
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 00:03:33 -0500
Subject: Beginner's Question
I'm trying to get the codes for Hexen. So far I've gathered:
NRA
SATAN
MAPSCO
LOCKSMITH
DELIVERANCE
BUTCHER
SHERLOCK
CLUBMED
are there any others? What are they?
Carl Anderson aka 'Gandalf the Grey'
call The Chitown Network (708)356-4417
An awesome Excaliber BBS
------------------------------
From: ccaird@islandnet.com (Colin Caird)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 21:58 PST
Subject: Re: Hexen scripts - ???
Just use NWT to insert the lump into your PWAD, the BEHAVIOUR lump can be
replaced with ACC's output. Or you could use HCK which inserts the script
into your PWAD when you save your level.
Colin
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Check out the most wicked DOOM, DOOM ][, Heretic and HEXEN WWW site. |
| Also has a Quake section with all of the screenshots. |
| |
| WWW: http://www.islandnet.com/~ccaird/doom/ |
| E-mail: ccaird@islandnet.com |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
------------------------------
From: ccaird@islandnet.com (Colin Caird)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 21:58 PST
Subject: Re: WEEKLY REMINDER : Beginner's Questions
>Its purpose is to provide discussions on *advanced* DOOM editing techniques
Am I not recieving all the mail from the list or something? I don't seem to
be recieving any posts that deal with *advanced* DOOM editing techniques. :)
Colin
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Check out the most wicked DOOM, DOOM ][, Heretic and HEXEN WWW site. |
| Also has a Quake section with all of the screenshots. |
| |
| WWW: http://www.islandnet.com/~ccaird/doom/ |
| E-mail: ccaird@islandnet.com |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 02:36:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: DeHackEd help offer again.
Hello, again, it's me the maker of Aliens Doom 3:
Aliens vs Predator. I'm just formally offering my
services to those who have any questions about
how to do something with DeHackEd, or questions
about my patch. Maybe someone will have an idea
I haven't thought of yet and I'll put it in my
patch, so please feel free to ask me anything-
I'd love to make the game as good as possible!
Mike
------------------------------
From: "Luc Cluitmans" <L.J.M.Cluitmans@ele.tue.nl>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:41:43 MET-2DST
Subject: Re: Hexen scripts - ???
Just a possible reason why spawning the things may fail: I noticed
spawning things fails if something else is already present near the
(x,y) coordinate where the thing should be spawned.
I did an experiment where T_BRIDGEs had to be spawned when an ettin
was butchered. The bridges did appear, but not at the place where the
player was standing! That is probably why bridges in the hexen levels
are nearly always above large gaps in the floor. Also be careful with
multiple map spots at the same location.
Luc.
------------------------------
From: Pandion-Knight <s337239@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:49:52 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Subject: Yet another dehacked question...
Yeah hi all.. i've been working on a deh patch that turns various
monsters into marines, complete with sound and all.. and with the 3d death
patch APGFX (did i mention how brilliant it is ? :) it has proved a point
that unlike players, MONSTERS do not turn to face the thing that kills
them when they die.
But im off the main subject. Im looking for a way to make a shotgun guy,
or any monster for that matter, shoot DOUBLE BARRELED shotguns... if i need
dehacked 3.0 for this please tell me since i've been neglecting to ftp it
as i reckoned deh 2.2 was good enough.
Is there a way to do it ? Any help would be appreciated. Also is it
possible to make a monster that shoots bfg ?? not the wimpy balls mind
you.. the one that affects you like a player does... even if it misses
you you get hit (etc etc.. like deathmatch). I saw a hack once
(revenge.deh - fun but too hard :) that made the cyberdemon fire bfg but
it only hurt with a direct hit so that sucked...
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Ps i already got chaingun (spiderdemon) rocket (cyberdemon) and plasma
gun (modified arachnotron) monsters. All i need is double barrel/bfg..
but im running out of colors... besides the map is hard enuf single
player and is so much like deathmatch.. its really good practice.. :)
Christopher Voutsis
Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
------------------------------
From: "J. Kugelman" <kugelman@mnsinc.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 08:18:35 PST
Subject: Re: Hexen scripts - ???
That's not the problem... When I try to run either switch which
activate the scripts, nothing happens. And yes, I have them set
to trigger as switches, not walk or anything else. I'll try some-
thing else, maybe it's only HETH.
------------------------------
From: gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu (Michael Gummelt)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:40:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Yet another dehacked question...
Chris,
Hey! I'm the guy making Aliens Doom 3: Aliens vs Predator (check
out my beta at cdrom.com in idgames/themes/aliens/aliendm3- it's ad3.zip)
My patch does a lot of the things you mentioned, plus a lot more (I
changed EVERYTHING!!!). Here's some tips:
>
> But im off the main subject. Im looking for a way to make a shotgun guy,
> or any monster for that matter, shoot DOUBLE BARRELED shotguns... if i need
> dehacked 3.0 for this please tell me since i've been neglecting to ftp it
> as i reckoned deh 2.2 was good enough.
Monsters cannot use the codepointers for player weapons fire. I think it has
something to do with the way the weapon targets and originates it's fire.
I think all the player weapons are preprogrammed to start from the player and
target only other things. And the same goes for vice-versa- the monster
attacks are meant to start from a monster. For example, if you try to use
the revenant missile fire (tracking) for the player, it won't work. If you
try to use a player weapon with a monster- I've noticed that the projectile
will originate from some fixed point on the level! Very very strange.
To make a double barreled shotgun in the hands of an enemy, your best bet
is to make it shoot a shotgun 2 or 3 times in immediate succession. You won't
get the wide dispersal range of a double barrel shotgun, but it will certainly
hurt at much. You only need to make the frames have a duration of 1, with the
exception of the last one. This way the shots will fire so quickly, it will
look and sound like one shot. It would certainly help to use DeHackEd 3.0a
since it lets you copy code pointers between frames.
> Is there a way to do it ? Any help would be appreciated. Also is it
> possible to make a monster that shoots bfg ?? not the wimpy balls mind
> you.. the one that affects you like a player does... even if it misses
> you you get hit (etc etc.. like deathmatch). I saw a hack once
> (revenge.deh - fun but too hard :) that made the cyberdemon fire bfg but
> it only hurt with a direct hit so that sucked...
Here's another problem- you CAN easily make an enemy shoot a BFG effect-
but the problem is, the BFG will not harm a player unless it is shot BY
ANOTHER PLAYER. This would be a dead giveaway if a fake marine fired
a BFG at you, it hit, then didn't hit YOU. In my patch, I have a monster
that has a BFG effect when it dies. You can try to make one of the monster
projectiles a BFG shot (just copy it over), but I'm not sure if that will work
right. You may need to add in a movement codepointer at the death of the
projectile so that it has a chance to target something. Otherwise,
it may just disappear. Another fun thing you may want to do is make
the BFG Hit explode during it's initial frames (use frame 127's code pointer),
this would make even a near hit pretty dangerous- and since it would apply
to BFG's shot by players AND fake players, you wouldn't be able to tell
as easily who's a player and who isn't (besides, if you stick around to
see if a marine is a player by waiting for a bfg shot to hit you, you would
pay a pretty big price for being wrong).
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Ps i already got chaingun (spiderdemon) rocket (cyberdemon) and plasma
> gun (modified arachnotron) monsters. All i need is double barrel/bfg..
> but im running out of colors... besides the map is hard enuf single
> player and is so much like deathmatch.. its really good practice.. :)
As for the basic idea of your game, have you overcome the obvious obstacles
in making a patch where you can't tell the players from the marines?
The main two problems are that:
1. Monsters don't run- they just wander around, and they never walk
backwards or strafe, and never run away. If you see a marine doing that
(like most people do in DM), it's a dead giveaway. You can make the
monsters LOOK like they're running by adding some lost soul behaviour in
there somewhere- it looks pretty cool. Especially if they pass you, they'll
keep facing you and it will look like they're strafing or running backwards
(put the weapons fire code pointers in the lost soul attack loop).
2. Monsters always fire the same weapon. One way around this is to make
a fake marine have different close and far attacks (like shotgun up close,
rocket launcher from far away). Also, you should make the rapid-fire
weapons keep firing at you as long as the monster sees you (use the chaingun
guy's "check-for-line-of-site" code pointer). Another idea could be giving the
different fake marines a few attacks per attack- in other words, have the
marine's attack be a shotgun, a pause, then jump to the plasma gun attack
as if he changed weapons. Of course, he would do this every time, but if
you make enough different marines (say, 25 or so), it would be hard to remember
which ones do what. This brings up another idea, about what you said about
running out of colors. Just make several of each color! That way, if
you see a green fake marine, you don't know what weapon to expect. Plus,
if you see a green marine (if you only make 4 fake marines) and he
fire the weapon you expect the green marine to fire, you're pretty assured
the marine is fake. So make about 24 marines, each one with a slightly
different combination of attacks/behaviour (like a red marine that punches
up close, but from far away fires a rocket then switches to a chaingun and
strafes you until you're out of his line of sight!). Also, you can copy
behavours between different color marines (i.e.: a green marine with the
same exact combination as the red marine in the example). Remember, you can
make as many monsters as you want- as long as you don't run out of frames (but
with this kind of patch, you can re-use a LOT of frames!)
You may also want to consider making a two-player version of this patch for
modem and serial players- just change the brown and red marines to grey and
brown.
There is another problem with simulating DM and making fake marines, but I can't
remember it right now. I'll let you know if I do.
I hope this helps, if it confused you or you have any further questions or
need clarification, please feel free to ask. Also, since I LOVE DeHacking,
I'd be happy to work on this project with you- a really GREAT all-marine
DM patch has yet to be made. Let me know.
Michael Gummelt
------------------------------
From: Edwin Razafi <edwin@worldnet.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:26:06 +0100
Subject: add sprites
what is the best way to add sprites:
-a pwad with all the sprites.
-a .bat which change sprites in doom2 and restore the originale at the end.
Tell me (i have wintex).
********************************
RAZAFI EDWIN
-----------------------
E-mail:edwin@worldnet.ne
http://www.worldnet.net/~edwin
********************************
------------------------------
From: Wendigo <wendigo@utc.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:14:07 -0500
Subject: Re: WadAuthor v1.11
>welll - when dos turns into a multitasking system of any kind, i'm sure
>we'll update the dos editors to take advantage of its new DDE features ;)
It already has. It's called Windows 95. Check it out.
- -=- WENDIGO -=- jhess2@gmu.edu-or-bhess@widomaker.com -=-
a.k.a. BRIAN HESS -=- Homepage: http://osf1.gmu.edu/~jhess2
Author of MARINA.WAD, DESTROYR.WAD, and FLIGHT57.WAD
H!Zone Level Author -=- On IRC in #doom as Wendigo
FTP Site: wilma.widomaker.com/pub/jbhess - GET MY PWADS
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 13 Dec 95 18:34:04+0100
Subject: Sprites Replacements in HeXen: DeuSF 3.8 available
I tested sprites and flats replacement in HeXen on the new DeuSF
version. It seems to work fine (at least). My, did those ettings
looked ridiculous with that green line...
--------
Flats replacement works fine provided you use F_END as end marker
(menu Guru|Use F_END under WinTex).
Sprite replacement still doesn't if you use S_END (you would need to
modify the sprite names in hexen.exe, and there's not dehacked for it yet).
So the only option is to use DeuSF or NWT (I didn't test NWT), and it
still waste a lost of disk space.
This DeuSF 3.8 version will only be released as part of WinTex 4.1. It's
currently in ftp://ftp.enst.fr/outgoing/doom
No previous DeuSF version will work on HeXen, because of misc bugs that
I had to fix, and because of an old limitation in the size of the directory.
(The WAD directory of HeXen is now more than 64k).
Note that DeuTex won't be updated to work with HeXen, it's too complicated.
Olivier Montanuy
(WinTex/DeuTex author)
------------------------------
From: gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu (Michael Gummelt)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:20:19 -0500
Subject: Re: DeHackEd help offer
> HI Mike,
> I have created a 1.5 times the size mega cyberdemon with a rocket launcer on
> each arm. How do I make him fire two rockets at once or at least the second
> one a split second behind the first? He's big and he's bad so I want him to
> act accordingly!
easy, just add a frame in his attack that uses the same code pointer at the
rocket-firing frame. Just be sure to make the frame duration of the first
firing frame at least 10 to make a gap. This will make him fire two rockets-
one after the other.
If you want him to fire two at the same time, change the mancubus fireball
into a rocket, and use the mancubus fire code pointers. there are three,
each one fires 2 shots simultaneously (one fires left & center, one fires
two center , and the other fires center and right). Here you have the
potential to fire SIX rockets at once!
What would also be cool would be to throw in a revenant-missible tracking
behaviour. Unfortunately, you need to use the revenant-fire code pointer
to shoot one, and the missile must have the revenant missile code pointers
for the tracking to work. So you could still make the cyberdemon fire two
tracking in a row, OR you could make the cyberdemon fire two non-tracking
rockets slightly off-center (using the center-fire mancubus code P. which
will fire the mancubus fireball), followed IMMEDIATELY by a tracking
rocket shot straight from the center (using the revenant-fire code P. which
will fire a revenant fireball).
This all may sound confusing, but it's pretty simple. If you have any further
questions, let me know. Also, make sure you're using deHackEd 3.0a, it is much
better than earlier versions.
Mike Gummelt
------------------------------
From: us018032@interramp.com
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:33:10 -0500
Subject: Re: WAD cut & paste (was Re: WadAuthor v1.11)
>But there is hope outside of DOS: I will probably add a feature on the
>non-DOS versions of DEU 6.0 (for Windows, OS/2, UNIX and Mac) which makes
>the internal DEU clipboard available for other application using the
>standard clipboard for the system under which DEU runs.
Wow -- that sounds really neat. What is the "standard clipboard for the
system under which DEU runs"? Is that something endemic to DEU or not?
>Wrong. The clipboard in DEU 5.3 allows you to cut and paste individual
>vertices and linedefs, as well as complete or partial sectors. Even if it
>uses internal data structures for the moment, these structures could be
>saved in a WAD file without any problems. As a matter of fact, the clipboard
>in DEU 5.3 is a special level which is not displayed in any window. And it
>could be saved in a WAD file like the other levels. I don't understand why
>you would be forced to copy complete sectors if your clipboard is converted
>to WAD format.
Hmm.. Ok, let me provide an example. Consider the following ASCII art:
+-----------+
| a |
| +---+ |
| | b | |
| +---+ |
| |
+-----------+
What I have tried to depict is a sector 'a' having a smaller sub-sector 'b'.
If the linedefs of 'b' are all two sided, then they reference the sector
number for sector 'a'. How do you handle it if the user copies sector 'b'
to the clipboard, then pastes into an un-populated section of the map? How
about pasting into a different sector? What if the user creates a new empty
map and pastes into that?
I couldn't find any way to correctly patch up the "other side" without
taking liberties with the wad format. Thus, I developed my own format that
maintains this data. As a result, users can copy and paste sectors and
linedefs freely between sectors -- WadAuthor takes care of all the grunge
work. If you've got a way to do this within the wad format, I'd like to
implement it!
>> That's why I trumpet this as a feature of WadAuthor. One can paste
>> sub-sectors freely between different sectors or as stand-alone sectors --
>> even across the various wadgames.
>>
>So what? DEU 5.3 beta does that too. :-) And I'm sure that other editors
>can do it too. What's special about this feature?
Can DEU paste Hexen architecture into a DOOM map or vice versa? The new
structure changes in Hexen require careful conversion of linedefs and things
to be compatible with the other games. With WadAuthor I can open a Hexen
map, click "Select All" on the "Edit" menu, then open a new map for DOOM,
paste, tell WadAuthor to fix all errors (texture names and such), and play
the map. Once again, if you've got an easier way to do this, I'd really
like to implement it.
Thanks in advance.
John
P.S. If you and other editor authors are using a "standard" file format for
"templates", could you please pass it along? I would certainly add the
feature to WadAuthor to make it easier for my users to take advantage of
other tools.
------------------------------
From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:43:54 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: WAD cut & paste (was Re: WadAuthor v1.11)
John wrote:
> Wow -- that sounds really neat. What is the "standard clipboard for the
> system under which DEU runs"? Is that something endemic to DEU or not?
>
Err... I should have explained this in a better way. DEU 6.0 will hopefully
be available on several platforms at the same time: DOS, Windows, OS/2, UNIX
and Mac (many people are waiting for MacDEU). What I meant is that DEU 6.0
should be able to convert its internal data into a format that can be stored
in the native clipboard of each system (e.g. the Windows clipboard when DEU
runs under Windows).
If we all agree that the clipboard should contain the data in standard WAD
format, it will be possible to exchange data between two editors (as long as
they run under the same multitasking operating system, of course).
> Hmm.. Ok, let me provide an example. Consider the following ASCII art:
>
> +-----------+
> | a |
> | +---+ |
> | | b | |
> | +---+ |
> | |
> +-----------+
>
> What I have tried to depict is a sector 'a' having a smaller sub-sector 'b'.
> If the linedefs of 'b' are all two sided, then they reference the sector
> number for sector 'a'. How do you handle it if the user copies sector 'b'
> to the clipboard, then pastes into an un-populated section of the map? How
> about pasting into a different sector? What if the user creates a new empty
> map and pastes into that?
>
Good point. I forgot to explain that situation. If you cut sector 'b', the
only thing that your editor has to know is that 'b' was included in another
sector, but the actual reference to 'a' is not needed. I used a simple
solution which doesn't break the WAD format: I replace all references to
sector 'a' with -1. Note: these are the sector references in the sidedefs,
not the sidedef references in the linedefs (i.e. the sidedefs are still there).
If you paste this structure into an existing sector, all references to sector
- -1 will be replaced by the new sector number. For example, if you put the
object back into sector 'a', all references will be restored.
If you paste it outside the map (outside any existing sector), the sidedefs
which have a reference to sector -1 will be deleted. As a result, you will
get a new sector containing only what was inside 'b' and everything will be
correct.
[...]
> Can DEU paste Hexen architecture into a DOOM map or vice versa?
Not for the moment. This is still on my "to do" list... Alas. :-/
> The new
> structure changes in Hexen require careful conversion of linedefs and things
> to be compatible with the other games. With WadAuthor I can open a Hexen
> map, click "Select All" on the "Edit" menu, then open a new map for DOOM,
> paste, tell WadAuthor to fix all errors (texture names and such), and play
> the map.
Very nice! I will try to do this in DEU too.
> Once again, if you've got an easier way to do this, I'd really
> like to implement it.
Well, I don't know if it will be easier, but the method explained above
should allow this. When you cut or copy an object from a WAD, you put a
partial WAD file in the clipboard; when you paste it into another level, you
convert the linedefs and things if necessary (Hexen <-> Doom), then you
change the sector references. It's the same as with the standard cut and
paste method, except that you convert to the right format when you paste
your data in a map which was made for another game.
> P.S. If you and other editor authors are using a "standard" file format for
> "templates", could you please pass it along? I would certainly add the
> feature to WadAuthor to make it easier for my users to take advantage of
> other tools.
>
Well, the discussion with Jason about template files stopped before we could
get all details right, because neither of us had actually implemented the
templates functions at that time. Basically, these template files are
standard WAD files with one or two changes: some sidedefs can have a reference
to sector -1 in order to be able to paste the object into an existing sector,
and the floor or ceiling height of some sectors can be negative (for relative
heights). The details on which we didn't agree are about the sector heights:
when should they be relative to the floor or ceiling of the external sector?
- -Raphael
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End of doom-editing-digest V1 #514
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