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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 526
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #526
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 21 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 526
Re: More DHE corrections
Re: Dehacked 3.0 & Chainguns
DHE Q
Re: offset problem within pwad
Insane Weapons patch correction:
New Idea: Pig Tennis
Re: DHE stuff
Re: More DHE corrections
Insane Weapons release soon...
Hexen DHE
Re: offset problem within pwad
Re: DHE Q
Proof of monster strafing
Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
Re: offset problem within pwad
Re: Mancubus attack from player?
Re: Proof of monster strafing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:40:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: More DHE corrections
On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Michael Gummelt wrote:
>
> Gene,
> Well, I see my little suggestion has caused a minor debate...
> One thing I want to clear up, though, I did NOT intend to suggest
> putting a movement code pointer in the firing loop sequence- this would
> lock up the game. What I suggested was starting a Lost Soul attack, then
Believe me - someone brought this up, saying it was a possibility. This
discussion is getting so cluttered I can't even remember who did. =]
> going into a firing loop. When I said you could make a marine look like
> he was moving while firing, the other option I mentioned did not pertain
> to these fire-loops. For attacks that are just single-occuring, I
> suggested making the firing frame duration 0 and have the next frames
> be moving frames that have the firing sprites in them, then go back to
> the movement loop.
In case nobody has noticed this before, placing a frame duration of 0
will inevitably lock up the game eventually. It may work for a time, but
not THAT long.
As far as using a lost soul attack and then leading into a firing frame,
I believe it is inherent that whenever the monster fires, he stops.
Therefore, the effect would be that he's running at you fast (the lost
soul code pointer) and then stops instantly and shoots. At least, the
monsters always stop to fire when they move normally, so I assume they
would stop if they're moving because of the lost soul attack as well.
------------------------------
From: LummoxJR@AOL.COM
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:59:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Dehacked 3.0 & Chainguns
> just picked up DEHACKED 3.0 and in editing the code pointers, if the
>pointer is -0-, it won't let me change it. Is this normal? I wanted to
>make the troopers fire rapidly using some of the techniques here, but I
>can't get some of those code pointers changed. Also: I did manage to get
>them to fire rapidly, but they moved across the ground in a "sliding"
>manner (very unrealistic). DOOM also nearly ALWAYS crashes hard (screen
>turns to mush) and drops back to DEHACKED.
I'm not sure what's causing that particular crash, but here's some help:
1. Code pointers with 0 cannot be changed to nonzero, and vice-versa. The
reason is that Doom has a list of all frames that use code pointers (that's
how they were found), and that list can't be made longer or shorter. Further
complicating things is the fact that this list isn't fully understood- only
enough info about it exists to have made code pointer editing possible.
2. Troopers that move when they fire do indeed look unrealistic, as if they
are sliding. The problem is simple: their moving frames have animations that
make them look like they are walking, but when they're using their weapons
and moving at the same time, that's only 1 frame of animation. Hence, they
move, but there's no illusion that their legs are moving. I usually don't
make troopers move for this reason.
A simple patch that will let you make troopers use chainguns is the
following:
Frame 185:
Duration: 4 (3 if the next frame is given a duration of 1)
Frame 186:
Sub-sprite: 6 (I think- make it match frame 185)
Duration: 1 (0 if possible, but there might sometimes be a danger of crash
with 0 duration)
Next frame: 185
Code pointer: 618 (again, just a guess from memory- it might be 615- but
it's the line-of-sight code pointer)
Lummox JR
maker of many patches
------------------------------
From: scully@ix.netcom.com (Magdalena O. Penaranda )
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:11:20 -0800
Subject: DHE Q
won't be gettable anymore...? I know, it's not what you think, i mean,
gettable one minute, not gettable the next.
Like this:
ITEMIT GU
EMITEM -> !!BANG!! -> GUTSGU
ITEMIT GUTSGUTSGU
^ ^ ^
GETTABLE DEATH NOT GETTABLE
Nick
P.S.: Sorry 'bout the last one, didn't notice that i was
off subject :(
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:08:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: offset problem within pwad
Olivier,
Well, I'm no newbie so I'm sure I didn't mess up the
offsets. As for trying WinTex 4.1, you've sold me. I'll give
it a try. If I don't have any more problems with sprite offsets
in my pwad, I'll let you know...
Nevertheless, I assumed you might be able to give me an
answer using WinTex 3.41- After all, what did pwad author do
BEFORE WinTex 4.1? Use NWT?
Mike
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 21:15:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Insane Weapons patch correction:
I forgot to mention another new thing:
A DeathVision crucifix acts as a shield as well- hide
behind one to block enemy attacks.
Mike Gummelt
------------------------------
From: Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:18:49 GMT
Subject: New Idea: Pig Tennis
Hi All,
I've just had a great Hexen ides (see if you can figure out what it's
called (duh!) ). You need a level like a tennis court, with an impassible net,
a switch that runs a script that makes a bad guy and a porkulator bullet appear
at the same place (thus making it a pig!), and another switch that spawns about
10 discs of repulsion.. Now the game is up! you each stand on side of the
court, and fire discs at the pig so he flies over the net, and your other guy
volleys it back to you. You could also make it windy at the sides of the nets
so that the 'ball' was always in. You could also add more level to it in case
you get bored. I'll upload just the basic version (HXTENNIS.WAD) to cdrom.com
if I can get on, and if I get it finished.
Jim-.-.
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:21:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DHE stuff
If you coombine "projectile" and "shootable", the game will
lock up unless you make the speed zero. Even then, you may have to
turn on the "no gravity" and "floating" bits to avoid the occaisonal
crash.
Mike
On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Gene Franzen wrote:
>
> On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Greg Lewis wrote:
>
> > Someone mentioned to me that he did find a way to make a "shield"
> > weapon for the player... he modified the BFG and its bits to get
> > something that would block enemies shots. But he never did say exactly
> > how he did it.
>
> I have tried this before. Turning on the shootable bit and slowing down
> or stopping the BFG shot should be enough to do it. I can't remember,
> but this may have caused the game to lock up every once in a while.
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:17:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: More DHE corrections
Gene,
In my Insane Weapons Patch, i have five frames in a row with
the chainsaw attack code pointer with 0 durations to make the lightsaber
kill a low-powered enemy instantly (like a lightsaber should). I have
used it EXTENSIVELY. No problems. You may have tried using a 0
duration on a code pointer or action that Doom doesn't allow.
As for the lost soul attack stopping when firing, I'm positive
that the monster would not stop to fire. The only reason a regular
monster stops is because he moves using the standard move-and-check-for-
attack code pointer until he fires. The lost soul attack is NOT a movement
frame, it is an attack frame. It makes the Lost Soul move quickly
towards the player as like a projectile until it returns to it's normal
movement frames or hits something. If it doesn't get returned to it's
movement frames, it will keep going until it hits a wall. If you like,
I send you a small patch demonstrating this idea. Just let me know which
Doom you have (version #).
Mike
>
> In case nobody has noticed this before, placing a frame duration of 0
> will inevitably lock up the game eventually. It may work for a time, but
> not THAT long.
>
> As far as using a lost soul attack and then leading into a firing frame,
> I believe it is inherent that whenever the monster fires, he stops.
> Therefore, the effect would be that he's running at you fast (the lost
> soul code pointer) and then stops instantly and shoots. At least, the
> monsters always stop to fire when they move normally, so I assume they
> would stop if they're moving because of the lost soul attack as well.
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:45:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Insane Weapons release soon...
Hello again,
For all those who have asked me when the Insane
Weapons path is coming the answer is: SOON!
Well, it's not done yet (graphics, graphics, graphics!),
but I want to release what I have so far for Christmas.
It's a small patch, not a TC, but fun as Hell! I've tried
Deathmatch and it really kicks butt! Ant UltraViolence is
a good challenge, but NightMare is more fair (if you have
DeathVision). So, here's a few changes, and I will be
uploading the patch (only about 500k max, probably more like
300k) to ftp.cdrom.com thursday or friday. Keep in mind
that I still plan on chainging more graphics, and eventually
turning the whole thing into a Doom ]I[ TC! So here's a few
new developments:
1. The patch is now for Doom ][. I will release a Doom I
patch if the requests come in for it.
2. The double-barrel shotgun is back as weapon #3. I made it
a little faster so it's a decent alternative to the slower
but more powerful hand cannon which is the other weapon 3.
3. You can now JUMP!!!! When you use the health gun, you get
a boost in health as well as a boost in the air! I know it's
kind of strange, but it's actually pretty cool! I plan on
working on this some, and eventually taking out the jumping
or the health part. The jumping is actually a little more like
flying if you hold the button down. You can control what direction
you jump in by running then pressing the jump button, but if you
hold it down, you'll eventually loose your momentum and won't
be able to control the direction of the boost.
4. The Imp fireballs are actually on ifre now, and they do more
damage.
5. The archvile hits you with a DeathVision lightning\fire strike
from far away. He's faster now, and he doesn't respawn monsters.
He will follow you quite well (he can go up and down cliffs).
His close attack is to release a ball of HellFire that follows you
around. It doesn't hurt you, but it will respawn any dead monster
that you happen to kill- even an archvile or cyberdemon! You can
kill the ball of fire, but it's incredibly fast and maneuverable.
6. Arachnotrons now fire caco fireballs.
There will be a few more changes before I release it.
Mike Gummelt
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:48:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hexen DHE
> Could you tell me the name of the HeXen version of Dehacked?
> The one I suppose you're working at :-)
> It's just to put the right name in WinTex 4.1, before I release it.
(Dunno if this was supposed to be private, but everyone should probably
hear it...)
As of right now, there will be NO Hexen version of DHE. Unless Olivier
can manage to talk me into doing it (very small chance), I am not going
to continue to work on it. Mostly it is a time issue, although I've
begun to lose a little interest in it recently too.
If anyone IS interested in working on it, I am willing to send the
current code and help out where I can.
Greg Lewis
P.S. I'm leaving for vacation for two weeks early tomorrow morning, so
any replies will be sitting in my inbox for a while...
------------------------------
From: jelson@conline.com (Jim Elson)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 00:04:15 -0600
Subject: Re: offset problem within pwad
At 08:08 PM 12/20/95 -0500, Mike Gummelt wrote:
> Nevertheless, I assumed you might be able to give me an
>answer using WinTex 3.41- After all, what did pwad author do
>BEFORE WinTex 4.1? Use NWT?
Hmmm, Deutex? <g>
- --H2HMud
============================================================================
H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
Promo/Marketing Coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jelson@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 03:15:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DHE Q
Nick,
Are you trying to ask HOW to do this without crashing?
Well, you have to do one of a few things. Make the thing disappear
once killed, make it turn into some other gettable thing that they
would already have (i.e. a key they used to get into the room),
or if you use Doom I, have thwem turn into a megasphere which can't
be picked up in Doom I, but doesn't crash when you try to.
Mike Gummelt
On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Magdalena O. Penaranda wrote:
> won't be gettable anymore...? I know, it's not what you think, i mean,
> gettable one minute, not gettable the next.
>
> Like this:
>
>
> ITEMIT GU
> EMITEM -> !!BANG!! -> GUTSGU
> ITEMIT GUTSGUTSGU
> ^ ^ ^
> GETTABLE DEATH NOT GETTABLE
>
> Nick
>
> P.S.: Sorry 'bout the last one, didn't notice that i was
> off subject :(
>
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 04:22:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Proof of monster strafing
This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.
- ---559023410-851401618-819537770=:3280
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Well, Gene, I'd like toend this debate, so I'm sending out a 515 byte
patch that makes the trooper in Doom 1.9 strafe you. Okay?
Mike Gummelt
Previous discussions on the matter:
> >
Gene, > > Well, I see my little suggestion has caused a minor debate...
> > One thing I want to clear up, though, I did NOT intend to suggest
> > putting a movement code pointer in the firing loop sequence- this would
> > lock up the game. What I suggested was starting a Lost Soul attack, then
>
> Believe me - someone brought this up, saying it was a possibility. This
> discussion is getting so cluttered I can't even remember who did. =]
>
> > going into a firing loop. When I said you could make a marine look like
> > he was moving while firing, the other option I mentioned did not pertain
> > to these fire-loops. For attacks that are just single-occuring, I
> > suggested making the firing frame duration 0 and have the next frames
> > be moving frames that have the firing sprites in them, then go back to
> > the movement loop.
>
> In case nobody has noticed this before, placing a frame duration of 0
> will inevitably lock up the game eventually. It may work for a time, but
> not THAT long.
>
> As far as using a lost soul attack and then leading into a firing frame,
> I believe it is inherent that whenever the monster fires, he stops.
> Therefore, the effect would be that he's running at you fast (the lost
> soul code pointer) and then stops instantly and shoots. At least, the
> monsters always stop to fire when they move normally, so I assume they
> would stop if they're moving because of the lost soul attack as well.
>
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------------------------------
From: "Drake O'Brien" <a13231@mindlink.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:51:17 -0800
Subject: Re: Invisible Stairs & Invisible Doors
Jens Hykkelbjerg wrote:
>It is true that it is difficult to get both a transparent door
>effect and a deep water effect in the same WAD.
>Up until now the best possible solution was to use WARM that was one of the
>only nodebuilders that would build a perfect
>transparent door, and apply the "Drake O' Brien technique" of transforming the
>linedefs of the Deep Water sectors until
>the effect was good.
Yes, this can work fairly well tho' the deep water effect is still somewhat
flawed. Here you invoke the WARM -b -n=a switches, and a problem is that if
you use this build on spcial2b.wad 'as is' the anti-grav field is all HOMy
and the invisible stairs are crappy. So you have to make the index numbers
of the linedefs of the defining (invisible) sectors greater than the index
numbers of the bounding sectors, just as for the deep water. This is
actually Robert Fenske's technique for eliminating HOM in the doortracks of
invisible doors, just applied in these different cases (so it isn't "drake
o'brien technique", shudder..).
Actually, this is the only way I've found to get good anti-grav, lifts,
etc., consistently when using WARM.
>But my opinion is that it's much easier to achieve both effects simply by
>putting the sector numbers of all the transparent doors
>in an option file, before the nodebuilder is used.
>(Saves a lot of linedef splitting and rearrangements!)
>Sadly I have not been able to test the last version of ZenNode,
>but Marc Rousseau claims that he has built spcial2b.wad with both effects in it
>perfectly, and I see no reason not to trust him.
Yes, an easier way, and it works. You have to get zen097a.zip, NOT zen097.zip.
All these nodebuilders build different default nodes, and likewise Zennode
builds different default nodes than the nodes used when spcial2b.wad was
constructed. I think you used Colin Reed's BSP? The pertinent difference here
is how doom plays the transparent sectors. I'll try to explain:
Let rectangular sector 3 with floor/ceiling of 0/128 contain rectangular
sector 2 with floor/ceiling of 0/128, which in turn contains a small
rectangular
sector 1 with floor/ceiling of 24/128, and let both sidedefs of the lindefs
defining sector 1 point to sector 1, so you have the makings for an
invisible platform.
After the build used for spcial2b.wad the floor height of sector 1 will
include the entire area bounded by sector 2, both interior and exterior to
rectangle 1, whereas after a Zennode default build and using spcial2b.zen
(or a WARM -n=a build) the floor height of sector 1 only includes the
interior area of the centermost rectangle 1.
So to construct invisible stairs using a Zennode build you have to make the
centermost rectangle 1 almost fill the bounding sector 2, so the player and
things won't fall into gaps.
You can see this when you run zennode0.97a on spcial2b.wad with the
spcial2b.zen file. The effects are all perfect, but the invisible stairs
have to be reconstructed with the defining triangles enlarged into
rectangles filling the bounding 'stair form' rectangles.
------------------------------
From: Michael Gummelt <gummelt@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:57:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: offset problem within pwad
Well, Jim, I think Deutex IS Wintex. Wintex is just a windows
shell for DeuTex. What I wanted to know was how to get the
sprites to be offset correctly in a stripped pwad with
wintex 3.41. Any suggestions?
Mike
On Thu, 21 Dec 1995, Jim Elson wrote:
> At 08:08 PM 12/20/95 -0500, Mike Gummelt wrote:
>
> > Nevertheless, I assumed you might be able to give me an
> >answer using WinTex 3.41- After all, what did pwad author do
> >BEFORE WinTex 4.1? Use NWT?
>
> Hmmm, Deutex? <g>
>
> --H2HMud
> ============================================================================
> H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
> Promo/Marketing Coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> jelson@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
>
>
------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:16:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Mancubus attack from player?
On Wed, 20 Dec 1995 LummoxJR@aol.com wrote:
> >movement) so you could use that one. Insert the mancubus fireball shot
> >in there and it should work, as long as when the player fires it will get
> >to that frame.
>
> Ah, I think I get it!
> You mean this, right? A player fires, and his firing frame (as seen from
> other players) uses the mancubus firing code pointer. I'm not sure if this
> will work- I'll have to try it. It may only work in DeathMatch (but I doubt
> that); we'll see.
> I'll try that out myself.
I think you understand now, but just in case (and for the sake of anybody
else who wants to try this), here's the step-by-step outline:
1. In Dehacked, move the cursor down to the number which contains the
frame to jump to when attacking (on the first Dehacked screen you start in.)
Then press 'J' to jump there.
2. Move down to one of the frames of the player's attack sequence. Here,
since the player's attack frames do not have code pointers, and we can't
insert code pointers into a frame that has a CP of '0', we need to copy
one of the player's frames to another that you are not going to use, such
as the first frame of the SS Trooper that DOES have a CP.
3. Copy the frame with the 'C' command entirely to that SS Trooper frame.
Then jump down to the SS Trooper frame which you copied over and change
the code pointer to the one that fires the mancubus fireballs (377, 380,
or 383.)
That should do it. The only problem with this is that ALL of the players
will be able to trigger the mancubus fireballs in the arena by firing
with any weapon. As I said before, you might be able to modify a
projectile that only one weapon fires to activate the mancubus fireball
code pointer so that you'd have to use the weapon. Hope this helps.
------------------------------
From: Gene Franzen <gfranzen@tenet.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:46:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Proof of monster strafing
On Thu, 21 Dec 1995, Michael Gummelt wrote:
> Well, Gene, I'd like toend this debate, so I'm sending out a 515 byte
> patch that makes the trooper in Doom 1.9 strafe you. Okay?
Indeed, this certainly does end the debate. I would like everyone to
download this patch and vote: is this what people who play Doom call
strafing or simply running at you? If you are going to start making
claims about what you can or cannot do in Doom, please try to use correct
terms. In addition, I have the following things to add, which I hope you
will endeavour to correct in the future if you wish to continue this
discussion about making marines appear real:
1. The enemy suddenly makes a ridiculously dramatic speed increase.
2. How many people, when playing deathmatch, run directly at your fellow
marines to attack them?
I would also like to add the sudden change of opinion among the people on
this mailing list. At first, you were talking about how to do this/that
to make the fake marines appear more real. In the background, however,
are a substantial number of people who are talking about how fake marines
would make deathmatch interesting because you could act stupid like one
of the fake marines so your opponent won't know if you're one of them or
a real marine.
These are diametrically opposed propisitions. We have one side,
attempting to make the marines as realistic as possible, and the other,
admitting that it is impossible to make the fake marines realistic enough.
This has obviously become a futile attempt to prove what you apparently
cannot let go of. I have tired of this conversation where, in every turn
I take, leads nowhere.
Finally, anybody wishing to see the works of Mike Gummelt should try his
Aliens Doom 3 patch on ftp.cdrom.com.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #526
**********************************
