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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 462
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #462
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Monday, 30 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 462
Re: The TNT Project
unscribe
RE: The TNT Project
Re: Re: The TNT Project
Re: The TNT Project
TeamTNT and TNT:Evilution
Re: TeamTNT and TNT:Evilution
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Doug Greer <d.greer@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 22:56:27 -0700
Subject: Re: The TNT Project
>Alex Janini <fjanini@awinc.com> ,wrote:
>
>> Could you please send me info on how i could get a copy of the TNT wad
>>
>> No, they are selling it now, I do not think we can send you a copy,
>> but you could buy it in January(?)...
>>
>> ARJ
>>
>> ** This sux they are selling the WAD now **
>
> So, I presume they have a licensing agreement with id now. Are they
>compensating the authors of the editors and utilities they used?
>
>
These guys at teamTNT are creeps, I hope not one copy sells. All of the
announcements
all over this mailing list and newsgroups and the web (spamming) seemed o.k
to me if
it was truely going to be available free. However this is not the case ( how
convienent ).
TeamTNT said the project had no leaders ...bla bla-bla.... Who negotiated
this 11th hour
deal? Who is going to get paid. This hype really pissed me off. I wonder if
anyone feels
the same way? SCREW TEAMTNT!!! It is a shame some people are so shameles.
Doug Greer
"The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes and steal
your dreams....its
Heaven and Hell" Black Sabbath
------------------------------
From: "Fred M. Sullivan" <sullivan@onramp.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 08:00:03 -0600
Subject: unscribe
unscribe
------------------------------
From: mblabg@maja.mas.malmo.se (Zoltan Sandor)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:52:52 --100
Subject: RE: The TNT Project
TNT release in January?!!
Boys, are you out of your mind? Who will care about TNT when Quake is out?
I thought it might be a great fun to play new DOOM wads till Quake, but
after it? I think you are wasting the whole work by the postponed release!
(Or you do know something about Quake release time, we don't!)
Zozo
------------------------------
From: Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 09:28:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: The TNT Project
In your message dated Saturday 28, October 1995 you wrote :
> Good point. People on the project can ONLY charge for a distribution fee.
> The wad itself must be free. Therefore if anyone buys one copy of the wad,
> they may _legally_ (according to the licensing agreement included in the
> DOOM 2 installation) copy the wad and give it to whomever they choose,
> upload it to an ftp site, and so on.
Well, they're uploading it to ftp.cdrom.com (or some other site) anyway,
according to all the hype they post to the newsgroups.
> So...... How much is the "distribution fee" going to be?
I dunno.. But that's an easy way to make a couple of quid- Say it's a
distribution fee, and make them pay more than the price of the disks and
postage.. strange eh?
> -Ted
- -
Jim Wraith jim@kildare.demon.co.uk
Boing! Boing! Boing! Boing! Boing!
------------------------------
From: d.moeller@rendsburg.netsurf.de (Denis)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 20:08:09 +0100
Subject: Re: The TNT Project
Hi!
>>> ** This sux they are selling the WAD now **
>> So, I presume they have a licensing agreement with id now. Are they
>>compensating the authors of the editors and utilities they used?
> These guys at teamTNT are creeps, I hope not one copy sells.
I don't want to go on here with this war, but I just like to say,
if you don't like TNT anymore, check this out:
http://www.geopages.com/Hollywood/2299/mm.html
:)
cya
Denis
[] Denis Moeller, author of NWT v1.3 and TiC's WAD Reviews. []
[] Just play our Doom (2) Add-Ons: Sudtic, Teutic, Obtic. Thanks. []
[]------------ E-Mail: d.moeller@rendsburg.netsurf.de ------------[]
------------------------------
From: Ty Halderman <thldrmn@neosoft.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 12:45:39 -0600 (CST)
Subject: TeamTNT and TNT:Evilution
I've been reading posts from Bob Forsman and Ted Vessenes, and a flame from
Doug Greer, concerning the TNT project choice to go commercial. As the
contact for TeamTNT with the company that is releasing Evilution, I felt I
might best address a couple of these issues.
Doom-editing is not the place for this, generally, except that it might
bring forth some specifics relating to others' use of utilities and editors,
and that might be beneficial overall. I'll be happy to abide by the wishes
of the list administrator, and will keep the noise to a minimum.
- ---
We were planning to put Evilution out on the net until about 4 hours before
release, when we were contacted rather urgently. This was not something we
had planned, but wasn't something we could exactly ignore either. The
January date is simply a fact of marketing--nobody could get new shelf space
at this point in the year. It's not an intentional delay until January.
Id Software does deserve profits, and they deserve to have us respect their
copyrights and rules. For that reason (though it would have made a more
complete product), we did not use Dehacked patches. They say don't modify
the .EXE, and we didn't. We have also covered the other legal and moral
aspects of id Software's wad issues, or we wouldn't have considered this.
I'm afraid I can't give you any further details at this point due to
nondisclosure of contracts under negotiation. Perhaps in a couple of weeks
I can.
As to uploading of the Evilution files to public sites, that would be
illegal as these are copyrighted works. It's not different from uploading
DOOM or id's Master Levels.
On to editors and utilities. Virtually all tools (editors, node builders,
etc) specify only what may be done with copies of the tools themselves, not
the resultant works when using the tools. Frankly, in most cases
limitations are intended primarily to protect id's interests, in the same
way as they refuse to let the tools work with the shareware versions of
DOOM, Heretic, etc. The goal of all of these utilities, and of our product,
is to increase and prolong the playing of the DOOM series, thereby
increasing id's profits.
However, to avoid any uncertainties, I will be contacting the authors of
each of the tools we used as soon as all details of the situation can be
disclosed. Actually, I would think that those who built the DOOM Master
Levels would have been asked the same questions, but I may have missed that
discussion. Again, we are not out to rip anyone off, and are interested in
both the moral and legal issues.
I hope this clarifies our actions and positions. I feel that it's
appropriate to tell this group these details since most TNT members are
still part of the doom-editing community. Divisiveness was not our intent,
and I'm not trying to start a long discussion here. I'll be glad to respond
to email.
Thank you for your time.
=-Ty Halderman (thldrmn@neosoft.com) -=
=- Keeper of things TNT -=
------------------------------
From: Ted Vessenes <tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:42:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: TeamTNT and TNT:Evilution
> Doom-editing is not the place for this, generally, except that it might
> bring forth some specifics relating to others' use of utilities and editors,
> and that might be beneficial overall. I'll be happy to abide by the wishes
> of the list administrator, and will keep the noise to a minimum.
Because you haven't given me a new group to reply to, I'll have to reply
here. Please tell me if and where this should be moved.
[Chop Chop]
> As to uploading of the Evilution files to public sites, that would be
> illegal as these are copyrighted works. It's not different from uploading
> DOOM or id's Master Levels.
Let me quote the iD software license agreement included with DOOM and DOOM ][,
and you can decide whether or not you can sell these levels, okay? There is
a lot of legal mumbo-jumbo, but I've isolated the crucial part (and even
highlighted key phrases, for those who don't want to read a lot).
1. Grant of License. ... Notwithstanding the foregoing, you may
create a map editor, modify maps and make your own maps (collectively
referenced as the "Permitted Derivative Works") for the Software.
You may not sell or distribute any Permitted Derivative Works
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
but you may exchange the Permitted Derivative Works at no charge amongst
^^^^^^^^^
other end-users. ...
> On to editors and utilities. Virtually all tools (editors, node builders,
> etc) specify only what may be done with copies of the tools themselves, not
> the resultant works when using the tools.
The DEU team doesn't care that much about what happens to a wad made by
DEU, but iD does.
> The goal of all of these utilities, and of our product, is to increase
> and prolong the playing of the DOOM series, thereby increasing id's profits.
And pirating software releases the software to a larger audiance, thereby
convincing more people to buy it. Maybe that actually happens, maybe it
doesn't, but it's still illegal.
> However, to avoid any uncertainties, I will be contacting the authors of
> each of the tools we used as soon as all details of the situation can be
> disclosed.
Don't forget to contact the authors of that awesome tool we all know as
DOOM. :)
Actually, I think I'll just CC this post and your post to iD. No point in
arguing when they're the final word
> Actually, I would think that those who built the DOOM Master Levels would
> have been asked the same questions, but I may have missed that discussion.
> Again, we are not out to rip anyone off, and are interested in both the
> moral and legal issues.
Well I'm glad I could hopefully help you out on the legal side.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
| "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tjvessen@midway. | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
uchicago.edu | -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
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End of doom-editing-digest V1 #462
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