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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 467
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #467
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 2 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 467
Hexen Specs
Re: Textures
RE: MIDI2MUS / MUS2MIDI
Re: Ghosts
PLEASE POST HEXEN SPECS
Re: repost of newdoor?
Re: Re: Textures
MIDI2MUS / MUS2MIDI: definite info
Re: repost of newdoor?
Re: repost of newdoor?
Re: repost of newdoor?
Re: repost of newdoor?
Re: repost of newdoor?
Re: WAD selling issues (long)
Re: HEXEN SPECS. WHERE ARE THEY RAVEN!!
Re: Textures
Re: WAD selling issues (long)
Re: HEXEN SPECS. WHERE ARE THEY RAVEN!!
Re: repost of newdoor?
Hexen/Heretic addendum
Multi Doom-Editing's
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: matt.tagliaferri@pcohio.com (Matt Tagliaferri)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 19:09:00 -0500
Subject: Hexen Specs
Did someone say they would post Hexen specs after the release date?
I've got my copy right here ($60: Ow, quit it), and can't wait to
start work on HexenCAD.
matt tag
- ---
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! Who says he can't be named?
_ _ ---------------------------------------------------------------
|_|_| PC-OHIO PCBoard OIS pcohio.com HST 16.8: 216-381-3320
|_|_| The Best BBS in America Cleveland, OH V34+ 33.6: 216-691-3030
---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: bmorris@islandnet.com (Ben Morris)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 18:45 PST
Subject: Re: Textures
>
> This holds true for DOOM, DOOM II and Heretic. Dunno about Hexen, someone
> seems to be late with the specs... ;)
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -Steve
>
Yeah, well .. well .. Look, I don't even have any beta copies yet. I
mean, I asked the Raven guys ages ago if I could get a full version so I
can test some of the ambiguities in the specs, but I never got it.
Hell, i just got the script compiler this morning!
Anyway, if you guys want the raw specs, you'll have to wait 'til I get a
reply from Raven about releasing them. Otherwise, wait for the compiled
stuff - what I told Raven I'd be releasing - which I can only just now
begin to put together. And I still don't have the registered version!
_argh._
fie on you if that's not good enough! :)
- -/-
Ben Morris: Irritant at large bmorris@islandnet.com
SavanTech/Zerius/C++/Rush/DCK http://www.islandnet.com/~voltaire
Watch for DCK and HexenCK 3.0 real soon now, eh! Real soon! Yeah!
------------------------------
From: Alex Janini <fjanini@awinc.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:38:01 -0800
Subject: RE: MIDI2MUS / MUS2MIDI
Big thanks to everyone who replied on this subject, and if anyone
finds out who's the creator of MIDI2MUS (or an e-mail address I
could reach him/her) I'd appreciate it.
Matthew, thanks for "just_joe's" e-mail address...
If you find out anything else, please reply to me, not to the list... I
don't want this to go on forever...
ARJ
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end
------------------------------
From: Paul Smith <pcsmith@kadets.d20.co.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:21:41 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Ghosts
>
> What about ghost enemies (not Hexen). Sort of invulnerable shotgun and
>imps that can pass through walls . . . sure as hell makes DM players move
>quick. Problem is, I didn't hack em to do that!?
> Jason
>
You mean no-clipping in Deathmatch? -I hear there is a code that does
that... makes everything no-clipping untill you turn it off. Something
about Romero using it on his vistims. :)
------------------------------
From: mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 22:39:51 -0500
Subject: PLEASE POST HEXEN SPECS
Please post hexen specs. Do I have to spend $60 to get it? :P
Mark Mathews mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us TEAM OS/2, TEAM DEU, TEAM WOLF3D
Are you using DEU, WARM or DEUTEX for DOOM? WHY NOT??
------------------------------
From: Yugo Nakai <ynakai@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 22:56:57 -0600
Subject: Re: repost of newdoor?
>If you're interested in special effects in general and not just in
>newdoor, you should can get my complete collection of
>special effect WADs including newdoor from
>
>ftp://ftp.luth.se/pub/doom/newstuff/spcial12.zip
>
>You should of course also check out my WWW pages:
>http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/doom/index.html
I have found no problems with the web page, but both Netscape and my FTP
program cannot find the FTP side... WS_FTP says:
"can't get "ftp://ftp.luth.se" host entry
Connection to ftp://ftp.luth.se failed"
(1) Is this site still functioning?
(2) Has anyone else had better luck with this?
Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
From: Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 00:09:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Textures
In your message dated Wednesday 1, November 1995 you wrote :
> S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner) ,in message
<v02120d1dacbd4c148420@[148
> .88.12.93]>, wrote:
>
> > This holds true for DOOM, DOOM II and Heretic. Dunno about Hexen, someone
> > seems to be late with the specs... ;)
>
> Yeah, where are the bloody specs? I'd rather have the information raw than
> be sitting on my ass waiting for somebody to predigest it for me. If the
> bloke doesn't cough up soon I'm going to start posting thing identifiers
> again (and I have two machines with the registered version now, so I can find
> all the artifacts and monsters and deathmatch placement).
>
> I hate the swamp monsters. Sometimes I can nail them before they claw me,
> but not always. OUCH.
Hmm... Very annoying..
> Also, running around in tunnels searching for the thing that changed is a
> serious pain in the ass. "Hmm, I just pressed a switch. One SIXTH of the
> puzzle has been solved. I wonder which of 3 sealed doors scattered through 4
> miles of tunnels has opened, or perhaps it wasn't an obvious door at all.
> Perhaps it was an invisible side tunnel, or an entire rock face." Yeesh.
>
Yeah, I'm stuck on shadow wood.. I've got half the puzzle, and that's it...
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 02 Nov 95 09:16:47+0100
Subject: MIDI2MUS / MUS2MIDI: definite info
I seem to remember MIDI2MUS was released IDDT, so no need to worry about an author.
MUS2MIDI is from Joachim Erdfelt, but his code is a bit more complicated than
it should, and damn slow too.
There isn't much of a difference between MUS and MIDI actually.
I think the right guy to ask for that kind of stuff is Vladimir Arnost
(xarnos00@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) because he's very good with MUS and with coding.
Vladimir coded the DOS MUS player used in NWT 1.03 and the windows MUS player
used in WinTex 4.0e.
If only someone could convince him to do a MIDI filter...
Olivier (WinTex author)
------------------------------
From: Andrew Smith <cm4bcajs@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:21:32 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: repost of newdoor?
On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Yugo Nakai wrote:
> I have found no problems with the web page, but both Netscape and my FTP
> program cannot find the FTP side... WS_FTP says:
Whereas I have found problems with the web pages, but had no problem with
the FTP sites!
> (1) Is this site still functioning?
Yes.
> (2) Has anyone else had better luck with this?
Yes. But it is a bit easier getting a connection from England, I would
think...
*Andy
Anything dropped in the bathroom falls in the toilet.
(Flucard's Corollary)
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 12:33:41 GMT
Subject: Re: repost of newdoor?
At 11:21 am 2/11/95, Andrew Smith's sig said:
>
>Anything dropped in the bathroom falls in the toilet.
Unless it would make a mess by landing on the floor. ;)
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 12:31:44 GMT
Subject: Re: repost of newdoor?
At 10:56 pm 1/11/95, Yugo Nakai wrote:
>>If you're interested in special effects in general and not just in
>>newdoor, you should can get my complete collection of
>>special effect WADs including newdoor from
>>
>>ftp://ftp.luth.se/pub/doom/newstuff/spcial12.zip
>>
>
>I have found no problems with the web page, but both Netscape and my FTP
>program cannot find the FTP side... WS_FTP says:
>
>"can't get "ftp://ftp.luth.se" host entry
>Connection to ftp://ftp.luth.se failed"
>
>(1) Is this site still functioning?
>(2) Has anyone else had better luck with this?
>
ftp.luth.se/pub/games/doom/ is a European mirror of ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/
TransAtlantic people would be better off going direct to the original.
Though Jens' file doesn't seem to be there... :(
I do hope that doesn't mean Jens has only uploaded to a mirror? Nah,
surely not!
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: Aragorn! <bsc4074@dcs.napier.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 12:30:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: repost of newdoor?
On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Yugo Nakai wrote:
> >If you're interested in special effects in general and not just in
> >newdoor, you should can get my complete collection of
> >special effect WADs including newdoor from
> >
> >ftp://ftp.luth.se/pub/doom/newstuff/spcial12.zip
> >
> >You should of course also check out my WWW pages:
> >http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/doom/index.html
>
> I have found no problems with the web page, but both Netscape and my FTP
> program cannot find the FTP side... WS_FTP says:
>
> "can't get "ftp://ftp.luth.se" host entry
> Connection to ftp://ftp.luth.se failed"
>
> (1) Is this site still functioning?
> (2) Has anyone else had better luck with this?
>
> Thanks in advance.
The site is working fine, at least for me anyway. It has been full quite
a lot recently - probably everbody getting the hexen demo from it.
I've never had that error from it though. Try again.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
| So remember when your feeling very small and insecure |
| How amazingly unlikely is your birth |
| And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space |
| Because there's bugger all down here on Earth. |
| ,,, |
| Aragorn! (o o) bsc4074@dcs.napier.ac.uk |
| ------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------
------------------------------
From: Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg <hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:23:09 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: repost of newdoor?
Yugo Nakai writes:
>>ftp://ftp.luth.se/pub/doom/newstuff/spcial12.zip
>"can't get "ftp://ftp.luth.se" host entry
>Connection to ftp://ftp.luth.se failed"
>(1) Is this site still functioning?
>(2) Has anyone else had better luck with this?
The site seems to be down a lot. The file can also be found at:
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/doom/newstuff/oldnewstuff/spcial12.zip
/Jens
- --
Jens Hykkelbjerg | "Civilisation began with the felling
Aarhus Universitet | of the first tree; and, it will end
Email: hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk | with the felling of the last."
WWW: http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/index.html
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@NeRo.Uni-Bonn.DE>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:39:30 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: WAD selling issues (long)
LICENSE:
By receiving this mail, you ("reader") accept the terms and
conditions of this agreement. If you are not willing to be bound
by them, delete the mail unread.
1. License to use: reader is guaranteed a non-exclusive and
non-transferable license ("License") to read this mail at a
single contiguous geographic site.
2. Disclaimer of warranty: guarantees of quality or
validity of the mail's content, either expressed or
implied, are hereby excluded.
3. Limitation of liability: in no event will the author be
liable for boredom, exhaustion, confusion, waste of bandwidth,
or loss of common sense however caused by reading the mail
or inability to read the mail.
- -------------------------------------------------------------
MAIL:
>Denis wrote
>But this doesn't make it easier for further projects.
>a) Can WADs be sold?
Methinks: Yep.
1) you probably have to agree to the LICENSE in writing,
not just opening an envelope,
2) else LICENSE statements might be invalid except they
are common (like warranty issues) or required
by law anyway
3) and if the LICENSE contradicts valid law (e.g. copyright law),
it is invalid in any case
You can sell a WAD you made. Copyrighted materials from other
authors is different. If somebody else made the WAD,
it depends on his "LICENSE": wether he agrees to derivate
works, selling etc.
>b) For a distribution fee or even for real money?
Doesn't matter. As in: Just call "real money" a distribution
fee. Asumme you are "selling" WADs that are available for free,
and the copyright owners did not explicitely say "all
rights reserved" and "no charge distribution only". You
create a frontend, sort them out, playtest them, it
takes months... so you say. Sounds familiar?
If it's your own WAD, you don't have to justify you want
money. As it's your work, it's copyrighted.
>c) Do the authors of the editors and id itself are entitled to
> get % of the money?
1) most editor authors do not restrict the RTU (right
to use) in any way, AFAIR
2) even if they wrote a LICENSE to deny commercial use
of any WAD created using their tool, it's probably
invalid (and how would you prove they used your
editor?)
thus there's prolly no way to make money from an editor or
tool except selling the tool itself in first place.
A WAD editor is not different from a word processor, or a CAD
design tool. Even Micro$oft does not try to buy a text, or
charge you for selling a text just 'cause you wrote using an
M$ editor. What people are allowed to do with your text depends
on your copyright/disclaimer. What you do with your own text
depends on if it affects other people's copyright (excessive
quotation, or blunt plagiarism).
What about DOOM.EXE itself? Imagine you're using a CAD editor
to create a model, and a ray tracer to create a high quality
picture. The company that sold you the ray tracer won't charge
you for selling the model. They can't even charge you for
selling the picture. Id can't carge you for selling a WAD
that can be (dis)played using DOOM. Id is only selling you the
very tool to play WADs.
Finally, what about the WAD file *format*? In principle,
file formats are proprietary, and can't even be patented.
As we learned from GIF files, the way to protect a file
format is getting a patent on the algorithm needed to read
and/or write the file (LZW compression in case of GIFs).
I haven't ever heard Id's holding a patent on any particular
algorithm needed to read or write a WAD. The only part that
is not rather straightforward is the BSP stuff. But BSP's
have been invented, improved and described by Fuchs, Naylor et.al.
and others, not by Id. Furthermore, Id released their nodebuilder
source *first*, and the DUL (Data Utility License covering the
idbsp right to use) months later - a bad mistake from a legal POV.
The DUL does not apply unless you agree in writing, and
you don't have to. If you do not use idbsp anyway, forget about
the DUL.
You have to acknowledge the trademarks (DOOM, Id etc.). The
commercial use of trademarks might be restricted, but I don't
know how this affects sales policy. Using a product name closely
resembling a registered trademark is prohibited (you can't
publish & sell anything like FreeDOOM, BoreDOOM, DOOMed w/o
difficulties).
Remember, everything said w/o warranty (see LICENSE :). If
somebody knows better, please let us know. My apologies to
those on the list who aren't interested in this issue.
B.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 10:03:03 EST
Subject: Re: HEXEN SPECS. WHERE ARE THEY RAVEN!!
mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us ,in message <9511012122.AA0226@localhost>, wrote:
>
> Raven where are the specs?
>
> Hexen is selling for $59.95 at Electronics Boutique. Ugh!! I'll
> wait until it comes to my local Sam's Club.
It's $60 mail-order too. But you get a T-shirt.
I ordered mine mostly on-line (called them to give my mastercard number)
https://www.globalnews.com/hexen/checkout.html
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 10:19:36 EST
Subject: Re: Textures
Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk> ,in message <647@kildare.demon.co.uk>, wro
te:
> Yeah, I'm stuck on shadow wood.. I've got half the puzzle, and that's it...
I just recently got past the Heresiarch Seminary, but was never able to open
the set of doors leading to the icon of the defender in the pool. Got stuck
even earlier until I noticed a pattern which denoted secret doors in one of
the temples.
Ask for or provide me with hints in private mail.
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 15:33:34 GMT
Subject: Re: WAD selling issues (long)
At 1:39 pm 2/11/95, Bernd Kreimeier wrote:
> 1) you probably have to agree to the LICENSE in writing,
> not just opening an envelope,
Not so. Remember that when you purchase computer software you very rarely
purchase the software: you purchase the media and a license to use the
software. You are therefore automatically bound to abide by the terms of
that license, or to cease using it. You can do want you want with the
media, as you own that, but not the software it contains.
The interesting thing is, of course, that the license can only cover the
licensed software. As you don't actually need a copy of DOOM to build a WAD
file, and are certainly not using DOOM to build WADs, it can be argued that
they. Therefore, id can have no control over what you do with them.
> Even Micro$oft does not try to buy a text, or
>charge you for selling a text just 'cause you wrote using an
>M$ editor.
Hey, Bernd, stop giving micro$oft ideas....
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 16:17:51 GMT
Subject: Re: HEXEN SPECS. WHERE ARE THEY RAVEN!!
At 10:03 am 2/11/95, Robert Forsman wrote:
>
> It's $60 mail-order too. But you get a T-shirt.
>
> I ordered mine mostly on-line (called them to give my mastercard number)
>
>https://www.globalnews.com/hexen/checkout.html
But don't bother from outside the US: they're not accepting overseas
orders. Bummer!
But we're getting off-topic here...
c'mon people, we're still doom-editors and we got a job to do....
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: Andrew Smith <cm4bcajs@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 17:32:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: repost of newdoor?
On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg wrote:
> The site seems to be down a lot. The file can also be found at:
> ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/doom/newstuff/oldnewstuff/spcial12.zip
If you want a mirror site in the same general area of the world how about
ftp.sunet.se?
I have not looked for the files mentioned before though, so I can't say
for definite they're there.
*Andy
The sergeant put on the poker face which has been handed down from NCO
to NCO ever since one protoamphibian told another, lower ranking
protoamphibian to muster a squad of newts and Take That Beach.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Eric)
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@NeRo.Uni-Bonn.DE>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 18:35:07 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Hexen/Heretic addendum
>From: bmorris@islandnet.com (Ben Morris)
>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 95
>I'm working on the official Hexen specs, using information
>that Raven's given me. Specs'll be available on the 30th.
I finally put two text files on the UDS Errata/Addendum page
http://www.nero.uni-bonn.de/~bernd/uds.html
both just barely edited doom-editing digests. There's a lot
of redundancy left. Thanks to Steve who sent me all the
postings I missed (those aren't in chronological order, as
I haven't found the time to sort them). I added a probably
*very* outdated Heretic list (are there any Heretic specs
out?). The large "raw dumps" posted by Robert Forsman are
kept separately in the second file.
Mind you I do not use Heretic or Hexen. If you missed the
postings here, you might want to have a look at the stuff.
By the time Ben Morris will have finished the Hexen Specs,
I'll happily purge those two files.
L8r
B.
------------------------------
From: mustaine@usa.net (Tom Mustaine)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:05:25 -0700
Subject: Multi Doom-Editing's
Would somebody like to explain why I just got *6* copies of Doom-editing
Digest #466?
<( Tom Mustaine )>
<( Quarter Finalist at DM95 )>
<( TeamTNT Member )>
<("Remember, the Road to Doom )>
<( is *NOT* in Win95" )>
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #467
**********************************
