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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 450
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #450
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 19 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 450
Sender: owner-doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
A little drastic, don't you think?
Reality check! (FLAME MODE ON)
Re: your mail
Re: A little drastic, don't you think?
Re: Reality check! (It's just a joke)
Playlink modem
Re: Re: Who's working on editors for Hexen? (fwd)
ADMIN note: flamewars
Hexen scripts: more hacking info
Re: Hexen Bad V_DrawPatch error
RE: Source code!
Re: Hexen scripts: more hacking info
Re: Hexen Bad V_DrawPatch error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: amccoy@thor.tjhsst.edu (Andy McCoy)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 22:11 EDT
Subject: Sender: owner-doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
==== [ Begin quoted message ] ===================================
>> PS. If anyone has the source for Windows 95, please forward this as
>> well.
>Forget Windoze 95. Get the source code for OS/2 Warp and port it to Windows 95.
oh, i forgot to mention that if you give me the sorce to doom2, i can get
you the sorce code to this really cool wad i'm working on. it has (get this)
100 cyberdemons and 100 spider things. its an awesome wad. i hope i.d.
puts it in doom three.
==== [ End quoted message ] =====================================
What is with these people? If this is "advanced doom editing", then
why are they sending in stuff about windows 95, doom 2 source (which everyone
wants, but will never get :), and wads that sound like "throw a LOT of monsters
in and it is cool." Since I joined a short while ago, there have been
conversations about deep water, tracers, and then hacking hexen. All of a
sudden, a bunch of people (names have been conveniently lost) have been
posting stupid stuff. Please, take this stuff somewhere else...
Just curious, but how many times was the topmost message sent? I got
it 3 times. Mail bug?
amccoy@tjhsst.edu - Andy McCoy
------------------------------
From: LummoxJR@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 22:18:55 -0400
Subject: A little drastic, don't you think?
(This is not off-topic. It's actually a discussion of what is and is not
off-topic.)
>> I need the source code for doom2!
>> if anybody can give it to me, E-Mail it to
>> me at:
>> Edigby@msn.com
>>
>> Evan Digby
>>
>
>Dear List-Admin,
>
>I humbly request the removal of this individual from this list.
>Posts such as these are disruptive, and are clearly not those
>of anyone we care to have associated with the list.
Well, do we really have to go that far? A lot of the replies, after all, were
worse (as far as wasted letters) than the original message.
Evan, in case you haven't figured this out yet, the reason for all these
jokes should be an obvious one: Nobody gives out source code. iD, I hear,
gave out the source code for Wolfenstein, but that's because it's outdated
and nobody cares anymore, except game programmers who want to examine its
code for tricks they can use in their own games.
But, let's not go so far as to unsubscribe him. The people who waste an
entire letter just to comment on MSN, though, are a more likely target. I
suppose that if asking for Doom II's source code was logical, this would be
the logical place to ask where to find it.
And just for the record: As much as I hate getting swamped with these Hexen
mails, I'm fully supportive of their inclusion in the list. They do use the
Doom engine. Still, we should really be a lot sharper with people who talk
about nothing more than the playing experience. Hexen, while not off-topic,
is pushing the edge of the envelope; so anyone who has no real important
comment to make on it should not be allowed to post about it.
That's all I've got to say.
Lummox JR
dysfunctional hacker
------------------------------
From: LummoxJR@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 22:42:10 -0400
Subject: Reality check! (FLAME MODE ON)
Arrrrrrrrrrrggggghhhhh!
(Forgive the triple reference; there's a point to it.)
>>>PS. If anyone has the source for Windows 95, please forward this as
>>>well.
>>
>>Forget Windoze 95. Get the source code for OS/2 Warp and port it to Windows
>>95.
>
>oh, i forgot to mention that if you give me the sorce to doom2, i can get
>you the sorce code to this really cool wad i'm working on. it has (get
this)
>100 cyberdemons and 100 spider things. its an awesome wad. i hope i.d.
>puts it in doom three.
>
>-ted vessnees
- --- FLAME MODE ON ---
Okay, reality check, people!
The guy talking asking for the Win95 code was JOKING! That's why he said "And
please hurry up with QUAKE. I need the source from this too." iD has barely
even talked about Quake, so anyone who could take that (and the Windows 95
bit) as anything but a joke has some serious problems. And the reference to
OS/2 source code was either another joke (not a very good one) or another
incredible failure to get the point.
Here's the reality part: Nobody gives out source code! Especially not for a
top-selling game. Do you think iD could be so big if they had to deal with
software pirates and competition from other companies using their very own
source? Get real! The only reason they released Wolf3D's code is because
nobody much cares anymore. You make money by keeping source code to yourself-
after all, you programmed it, so why should anyone else see it?
Furthermore, WADs are not and do not have source code. A WAD is just a file.
You can distribute your own WADs like crazy, and it's no big deal.
Doom II's source is an actual program listing that the company would sooner
shoot you over than give to you. Hence the joke: Windows 95 is the huge new
program today, and Bill Gates is not just going to hand you years' worth of
work to do with as you like; he's going to sell you the finished products and
extract money from you with the proverbial vice grips.
I strongly suggest that we start dealing more harshly with people who keep
asking for source code (I mean, the first question was fine, if boneheaded,
but this is ridiculous).
Lummox JR
really sick of really stupid questions
PS: Nothing personal, but PLEASE..... If my flame was directed at you, don't
take it personally, but definitely think over what you're writing before you
post it, huh?
------------------------------
From: Ted Vessenes <tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 22:58:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: your mail
> What is with these people?
Well, some people are really innane, some people are really sarcastic, and
some people always ask questions. ;) I'm sure we all fit into one of these
groups.
> If this is "advanced doom editing", then why are they sending in stuff
> about windows 95, doom 2 source (which everyone wants, but will never get
> :),
Not until Quake has been out on the market for a couple of years anyway.
> and wads that sound like "throw a LOT of monsters in and it is cool."
I must admit that it was a cheap shot, but I've seen way too many people
make wads like that claiming that "you've got to be a real doom master to
finish this level", etc, etc. I was sort of sick of it.
[Side note: You should not be allowed to released a wad unless you can
finish it on skill 4 without cheating. But that's just my opinion.]
> Since I joined a short while ago, there have been conversations about deep
> water, tracers, and then hacking hexen. All of a sudden, a bunch of people
> (names have been conveniently lost)
Well, I was one of the people who responded. Hope this helps.
> have been posting stupid stuff. Please, take this stuff somewhere else...
like rec.games.computer.doom? (Is that the proper name? I never bother
reading it.)
> Just curious, but how many times was the topmost message sent? I got
> it 3 times. Mail bug?
I just sent it once, sorry. However, if you'd like more than one copy, I
can cc all my mail to you in the future. ;)
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
| "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tjvessen@midway. | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
uchicago.edu | -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: Stauf <bennes@rpi.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 00:38:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A little drastic, don't you think?
> <snip>
> about nothing more than the playing experience. Hexen, while not off-topic,
> is pushing the edge of the envelope; so anyone who has no real important
> comment to make on it should not be allowed to post about it.
> That's all I've got to say.
>
> Lummox JR
> dysfunctional hacker
Hmm... I hope this doesn't pertain to me... :)
Ok folks, more questions...
Being a part time "editor" (hacker just doens't do it for me) I decided
that I would see if NWT could be given a different internal palette. You
see, I figured that since you can toggle between doom and heretic palletes,
then they must be embedded in the NWT.EXE ... yes. Now I have a hexen
palette in hexidecimal, but the exe is "overlayed" I believe the term is...
so direct manipulation is impossible. Anyone have any old source code
for this one? :) No really, I'm interested in *DOS* viewers, any version...
Ok, an wad editor's nightmare: Bad V_DrawPatch... anyone else getting this
one? and not just occasionally, but a LOT. In fact the very first time
I played hexen, it crashed. It dies in Deathmatch every now and then too..
Any idea what causes this? Bad sprite positioning in redraws? hmm...
Oh yeah, and while we're giving out Doom II source, me too. me too... :)
- -- Scott
I'm not stupid, I just do it to throw everyone off their guard...
------------------------------
From: mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 00:57:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Reality check! (It's just a joke)
Just a bunch of dumb 1 line jokes. Why write a paper on it?
------------------------------
From: mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 01:01:02 -0500
Subject: Playlink modem
Playlink modem should be shipping in 3-4 weeks. It's a DSP that's programed
as a 14.4 modem. It comes with telephone operator headphones. This will allow
you to talk to another person (with a PlayLink modem) while playing
DOOM or uploading a file to that person!!! You can also feed in the music
and sound too. They are selling for $150 or 2 for $250. In late November
there will a free upgrade to 28.8K modem. See it at WWW.PHYLON.COM.
Myself and another person are buying 2 playlinks. I can't wait. Imagine
playing Doom or Hexen and screaming at each other!
Like they say, "End the Silence".
Mark Mathews mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us TEAM OS/2, TEAM DEU, TEAM WOLF3D
Are you using DEU, WARM or DEUTEX for DOOM? WHY NOT??
------------------------------
From: Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 22:28:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Who's working on editors for Hexen? (fwd)
In your message dated Tuesday 17, October 1995 you wrote :
> DCK 3.0 Beta testing will start in about 14 days....expect the
> release not to far after that.
>
> -= Cerberus =-
>
I'll beta-test! Also, on the sibject of Hexen editing, here's me guess on how
it probably works (you might have worked this out, but I haven't!):
There's a switch. And the switch is set to activate scripts 1, 2, and 3. And
then by editing the BEHAVIOR bit, it tells hexen.exe what the scripts are.
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@NeRo.Uni-Bonn.DE>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:22:39 +0100 (MET)
Subject: ADMIN note: flamewars
Too many of you wrote:
> Re: Source code
> misc. insults deleted
Folks, you're really a disappointment to me. Todays digest had me wondering
if spending a couple of hours each week to keeping doom-editing going is a
reasonable thing to do.
Do NOT start flame wars on the list.
Do NOT start flame wars on idiotic topics on the list.
Do NOT use the list ot insult somebody.
Do NOT post messages to the list-admins on the LIST.
If you've complaints, USE PRIVATE E-MAIL to the offender.
If you've request to the admins, SEND TO doom-editing-owner@nvg.unit.no.
Re-read the posting guidelines. Think! Please, act reasonable.
A personal remark: if there's any difference between AOL and MSN users on
one and other internet user on the other hand, it's supposed to be manners
and common sense. If you'd ask me (yeah I know...) I'd prefer a childish
(as possibly young) AOL/MSN user to somebody who *has* to know better.
Naivete is a nusiance at times, ignorance is an offense, and a sin. And I
prefer somebody who asks a ridiculous question *politely* to somebody who's
only answer is being obnoxious.
Summary: starting flame wars is a reason for being unsubscribed w/o warning.
If you don't like this, let me know by PRIVATE e-mail. if you want to insult
me or anybody else, use PRIVATE e-mail. If you aren't able to deal with
newbies in a reasonable way by PRIVATE e-mail, leave them to Steve, John
or me.
Thanks for your cooperation,
B.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm sure they'll listen to Reason."
Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 18 Oct 95 11:55:21+0100
Subject: Hexen scripts: more hacking info
Note for Hexen hackers:
The new WinTex 4.0d can read the directory and string list of BEHAVIOR
entries. this isn't much yet, but it makes hacking a small bit easier.
I'lll upload today to my home page.
Note for NWT fanatics:
WinTex can also read the rest of the wad, the levels, and has the
colors right. so you chose
Here is more info I hacked:
Apparently, the scripts are numbered in order, but some have
1000 added to their number. for instance, MWAGABAZA26 will activate
script 26 though this script is referenced as 1026.
The sequence:
0x55L,0x3L, MSG#, 0x57L, 0x56L, 0x3L, SND#, 0x3L, 0x7FL
displays message string MSG# and plays sound SND#
(MSG# and SND# are indexes in the string table)
Wild guess:
0x55L means PRINT
0x3L means "the next stuff is an index in the string table"
MSG# is the index in the string table
0x57L means ?
0x56L means PLAY SOUND
0x3L means "the next stuff is an index in the string table"
SND# is the index in the string table
0x3L means WAIT
0x7F is the number of tics to wait ???
The sequence:
0x5EL, 0x01
exists the script and returns TRUE
wild guess:
0x5EL, means RETURN
0x01L means true (obvious)
I think I have seen return FALSE too, as 0x5E, 0x00
The sequence:
0x61L,0x38L,0x05L,0x03L,0x1AL,0x03L,0x00L,0x03L,0x01L,0x03L,WAL#
is found when a wall texture must be changed (when Korax is going
to speak, and when he has spoken). WAL# is the index of the name of the
new texture, in the string table.
I assume that some of the sequence means 'wait a little bit' and that
one of the numers above is the index of the sidedef whose main texture
must be modified.
But I'm not able to parse this sequence reliably.
Well, I hope someone has more time to waste on this ;-)
Note: if you want to make some tests, under WinTex 4.0, you can get the
index of any given sidedef by selecting Advanced | edit level, clicking
on Sides, and clicking near the sidedef. that should do the trick.
I suggest also the last version of DETH for this.
WinTex cannot edit behaviours yet, but it can reload them into the WAD.
It's a rather shameless plug, I know. ;-)
But who has another tool?
Now, if only those Raven guys wanted to give some specs...
Olivier Montanuy
------------------------------
From: Ty Halderman <thldrmn@neosoft.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:44:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Hexen Bad V_DrawPatch error
At 12:38 AM 10/18/95 -0400, Stauf wrote:
>Ok, an wad editor's nightmare: Bad V_DrawPatch... anyone else getting this
>one? and not just occasionally, but a LOT. In fact the very first time
>I played hexen, it crashed. It dies in Deathmatch every now and then too..
>Any idea what causes this? Bad sprite positioning in redraws? hmm...
I got this once last night, but I've only spent an hour or so with the demo,
and no DM yet. If it matters where I was at the time, it was just after the
center flaming warp in the first map. You end up coming off a warp and an
L-shaped corridor opens to your right. I went out that corridor, killed the
Hexen equivalent of a Pinko, and when I turned around to look back at the
corridor I crashed out. Now, I was about to hit the Tab for map at the
time, so I couldn't tell you if I actually had hit that key yet or not.
The error description does sound like it's unable to draw a texture patch,
but whether that's from not being able to _find_ it (I wouldn't think so) or
a transient difference in environment or what, I dunno. I went back through
that point again after restoring to just before I walked into the firewarp
and it didn't happen again, but there's a lot of difference between playing
for a while and restoring to a saved game.
Any correlation on when/where this has happened to others?
=-Ty Halderman (thldrmn@neosoft.com) -=
=- TNT:Evilution home page (Oct 24!) -=
=- <http://www.neosoft.com/~teamtnt> -=
------------------------------
From: Alex Janini <fjanini@awinc.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 19:45:21 -0700
Subject: RE: Source code!
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BA9D29.8D9E6D20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
oh, i forgot to mention that if you give me the sorce to doom2, i can get
you the sorce code to this really cool wad i'm working on. it has (get this)
100 cyberdemons and 100 spider things. its an awesome wad. i hope i.d.
puts it in doom three.
1st: There is no DOOM3! id says there will never BE a DOOM 3!
2nd: I don't think you'll make it very far with 100 cyber's and 100
spiders...
ARJ
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BA9D29.8D9E6D20--
------------------------------
From: brian@phyast.pitt.edu (Brian K. Martin)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:19:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Hexen scripts: more hacking info
>
> Now, if only those Raven guys wanted to give some specs...
>
>
> Olivier Montanuy
>
>
You're so good, they prolly figure they don't need to. :)
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 11:06:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Hexen Bad V_DrawPatch error
> From: Ty Halderman <thldrmn@neosoft.com>
> Reply-To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> I got this once last night, but I've only spent an hour or so with the demo,
> and no DM yet. If it matters where I was at the time, it was just after the
> center flaming warp in the first map. You end up coming off a warp and an
> L-shaped corridor opens to your right. I went out that corridor, killed the
> Hexen equivalent of a Pinko, and when I turned around to look back at the
> corridor I crashed out. Now, I was about to hit the Tab for map at the
> time, so I couldn't tell you if I actually had hit that key yet or not.
I've had the same problem twice. Both times occured after running
around in the seven portals area for a while, I wanted to take a
quick look at the map and...kaboom. My guess is that the map may
have something wrong with it. I don't know exactly how they
determine what to show when the map comes up so, I would be *really*
guessing if I went any farther down this path.
Have a great day,
johnw
:wq <doh>
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #450
**********************************
