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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 399
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #399
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Sunday, 3 September 1995 Volume 01 : Number 399
Re: Players are monsters
Re: Players are monsters
Re: Extra cameras- moot and dead
Re: Player Camera
Extra cameras- but not in DHE
Re: Extra cameras--with DHE
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From: Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 21:53:14 GMT
Subject: Re: Players are monsters
In your message dated Friday 1, September 1995 you wrote :
> I think I muddied my point in there somewhere. I knew about the players being
> monsters patch (it's pretty weird), but I meant that the AI routines wouldn't
> work for only the other player- that the player and the dummy would both have
> to use the same logic (and graphics).
> Thanks for clarifying.
>
> Lummox JR
> collecting bizarre DHE patches
>
I tried this patch, and at the start I started killing myself, obviously because
the monster wanted to attack the player. I can stop this by firing my pistol,
but then when I get shot at, everything goes haywire, with my man spinning madly
around and firing weirdly.
As for bizarre patches, set imp fireball damage to -10 and get hit by one,
then see what happens to the screen colours. Try this, then try and explain
why it does this.
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 21:35:31 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: Players are monsters
On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Jim Wraith wrote:
> As for bizarre patches, set imp fireball damage to -10 and get hit by one,
> then see what happens to the screen colours. Try this, then try and explain
> why it does this.
Simple. When you are hit by a weapon, depending on the strength of the
hit, DOOM flashes the screen using the palettes in the WAD file. These
start at 0 for normal, and increase in redness up to about palette 12 or so.
Anyway, it obviously takes the negative hit and decrements the palette
number to a negative number. Since there is no palette at that number
you effectively get a random palette. I assume the screen colours don't
return to normal afterwards because of the way DOOM tracks back down the
palette list.
Alden Bates. (Insanity is all in the mind.)
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 21:27:05 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: Extra cameras- moot and dead
On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Fairfax Shield McCandlish wrote:
> According to LummoxJR@aol.com:
> > Even if you did somehow manage to put in a "dummy player" (which I think
> > isn't even possible), it would look and act like a player, and you couldn't
> > guide it with the monsters' AI routines.
> Well actually you can.. but it'd give it to both
> players so it'd be pointless (make the player's first animation
> frame a monster's frame and he'll act like the monster, locking
> his view on whoever shoots him and then firing repeatedly.)
Hmm. How about this way:
1) Start a fake two player game.
2) Shoot player two.
3) Have a DeHackEd patch applied so that player corpses are monsters which
move around but are unshootable, jump off cliffs, so forth.
Now _that_ should work.
Alden Bates.
------------------------------
From: Pandion-Knight <s337239@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 20:54:34 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Subject: Re: Player Camera
Following on the player camera idea...
I managed to make a null viewpoint for testing my wad levels...
Firstly i used a savegame from doom (it was doom at the time but this
should work with doom2).
Then i just put 2 player 2 starts in (i think, or maybe it was just one)
the wad i had made...
Then as a SINGLE player game i loaded the multiplayer savegame. The
other player was there (it was a serial game but 4 player network should
work) then IDCLEVved to my level i made. Then i went to where i wanted
the 'camera' or player 2 start and killed him, forcing him to lock his
vision on me, then pressed f12 and played the game normally..
I dont know if that will help. But it is a cool way to have up to 4
stationary camera views for single player game.
Christopher Voutsis
Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
IRC: Pandion (after 9pm most nights :)
------------------------------
From: LummoxJR@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 15:47:41 -0400
Subject: Extra cameras- but not in DHE
Alden Bates wrote:
>Hmm. How about this way:
>1) Start a fake two player game.
>2) Shoot player two.
>3) Have a DeHackEd patch applied so that player corpses are monsters which
>move around but are unshootable, jump off cliffs, so forth.
>
>Now _that_ should work.
Nope.
Player corpses are not used this way. The player object is animated into a
corpse state, and a special code pointer changes it to a non-obstacle.
The actual corpses that start on the level are completely different objects.
However, there was this message from s337239@student.uq.edu.au:
>Following on the player camera idea...
>I managed to make a null viewpoint for testing my wad levels...
>Firstly i used a savegame from doom (it was doom at the time but this
>should work with doom2).
>Then i just put 2 player 2 starts in (i think, or maybe it was just one)
>the wad i had made...
>Then as a SINGLE player game i loaded the multiplayer savegame. The
>other player was there (it was a serial game but 4 player network should
>work) then IDCLEVved to my level i made. Then i went to where i wanted
>he 'camera' or player 2 start and killed him, forcing him to lock his
>vision on me, then pressed f12 and played the game normally..
>I dont know if that will help. But it is a cool way to have up to 4
>stationary camera views for single player game.
So it goes to show that maybe using the multiple player-starts method of game
deceit, something might work there- but that falls under another category
entirely; like the way "invincibility" did.
But I was still right!
As I've said from the start, neither is possible with DeHackEd- only by using
quasi-legal WAD designs and tricks can they be done at all.
Lummox JR
less than an expert
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:53:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Extra cameras--with DHE
> Alden Bates wrote:
> >Hmm. How about this way:
> >1) Start a fake two player game.
> >2) Shoot player two.
> >3) Have a DeHackEd patch applied so that player corpses are monsters which
> >move around but are unshootable, jump off cliffs, so forth.
> >
> >Now _that_ should work.
That is an interesting idea! It could be rigged to jump from the last
frame of the player-dying animation to a hybrid "monster" that will
follow the player around. I would assume that player 1 could then use
this "camera" by hitting F12. A nice concept. A few flaws tho... first
of all, the camera's speed would need to be fairly high to keep up with a
fast-moving player. But then if the player was standing still, the
"camera" would act like a monster, darting around the player and trying to
attack him, even if his attacks did no damage. Secondly, if the player 1
dies, I'm not sure WHAT would happen, if the ghost player 1 camera would
still be active, or if the object would vanish when the player respawned.
I have a feeling you'd end up with all of these camera sprites running
around. And thirdly, you still need two computers to do it. :)
I like the other idea, involving save-games also. Has the save-game
format been cracked far enough to insert a player-x "camera" at any given
x, y location in a level? That could be interesting.
Or, (this is even more far-fetched), rig something like this... make a
deathmatch level, and include one sector on a pedestal that cannot be
reached but has a view of the entire level (or most of it). Use the
special reject-builders to make it so that monsters ignore that sector
entirely (for those who play deathmatch with monsters). Then record a
two-player deathmatch, save a savegame at the start, insert a third
player camera in the special sector, and load the savegame and play the
lmp. Chance of success: less than 2%. :)
Greg
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End of doom-editing-digest V1 #399
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