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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 435
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #435
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Friday, 6 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 435
Hexen extraction info
Re: Hexen extraction info
Re: Hexen extraction info + SPECIAL NODES INFO
Re: Another BSP problem
HEXEN LINEDEFS ARE OF SIZE 16
Stairs than can go up/down any number of time.
Re: Hexen extraction info
Questions about hard coded stuff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DTeeter@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:10:12 -0400
Subject: Hexen extraction info
Hi,
I used Wintex to extract the Hexen demo wad.
Here are a few observations:
Hexen has a different pallette than Heretic or Doom
The maps extracted as MAP01, MAP02 etc.
In the lump section I found entries on "animdefs" and behavior -thought those
were interesting.
One of the entries was called Quake2 - it was an Earth quake type sound
hmmm....
The sky texture is actually identified as being 256X200 (in Heretic this was
the sky texture size, but it was identified as 256X128 anyway.)
Wintex 3.4 seemed to recognize all of the entries and put them into the right
directories
Wintex 4.0 crashed when I tried to use it to examine the Hex Demo -(oh well,
I still haven't figured out V4.0 anyway, sorry Olivier)
Neither Windeu 5.25, Windeu 5.3, or Doomcad 6.0 could open up either the
Hexen.wad or any of the maps I extracted.
Playing Hexen I noticed:
Map01 in Hexen has just about the coolest architecture I've ever seen in any
wad
They must have a sector type of something like "lightning + thunder" that
causes the light to momentarily go to 255 and has a thunder sound at the same
time (very atmospheric)
The swinging doors are not sprites, they seem to be swinging sectors. They
also have sliding sectors and spinning sectors.
There are several types of sprites that can be broken, sprite bells that can
be rung.
There is one line def that activates floor plus ceiling crushers, but only
lasts for a limited time. There seem to be linedefs that only activate their
triggers twice or three times.
Some of the switch textures seem to have more than two animated frames
Instead of level changes, you have "etheral travel" you can travel from
level to level how ever you want, there is no fixed progression.
It appears that with Hexen we still only have 2.5D.
The weapons that I saw are cool, but they are going to have to try real hard
to beat Doom's weapons.
- -Hope this isn't redundant for too many of you out there.
Later on,
Dan Teeter (dteeter@aol.com or dteeter@inchq.com)
------------------------------
From: joost schuur <jschuur@acmepet.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 00:16:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Hexen extraction info
On Thu, 5 Oct 1995 DTeeter@AOL.COM wrote:
> Wintex 3.4 seemed to recognize all of the entries and put them into the right
> directories
my my... what a coincidence ;)
> Map01 in Hexen has just about the coolest architecture I've ever seen in any
> wad
are you kidding? you must be refering to all first levels of id's
games. the coolest one i've seen it the citadel (e1m4 in heretic)
> There is one line def that activates floor plus ceiling crushers, but only
> lasts for a limited time. There seem to be linedefs that only activate their
> triggers twice or three times.
postings from people at raven indicate advanced levels will have their
own c like code (akin to quakec)
> Instead of level changes, you have "etheral travel" you can travel from
> level to level how ever you want, there is no fixed progression.
i shudder to think how big savegames will get.
> The weapons that I saw are cool, but they are going to have to try real hard
> to beat Doom's weapons.
there's more of them (cheatkey to enable them 'crhinehart) and a whole
bunch of artifacts (cheatkey to enable them 'braffel', you guess the rest)
</j>
_ ___ ___
=====| |/ _ \/ __|===========================================================
| | (_) \__ \ jschuur@acmepet.com lotlhwI on IRC
_/ |\___/|___/ http://home.pages.de/~jschuur/ go away
===|__/================================================nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'=
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 06 Oct 95 11:43:50+0100
Subject: Re: Hexen extraction info + SPECIAL NODES INFO
>> Wintex 3.4 seemed to recognize all of the entries and put them into the right
>> directories
> my my... what a coincidence ;)
WinTex 3.4 was made before I knew about HERETIC2 (yes, I had a ...well... forget it).
If it works, it's a bit of a miracle.In fact, it's DeuTex, not winTex, that
does the job.
WinTex 4.0 violently barfed on HEXEN.WAD, because he didn't recognised the main IWAD.
But then I added one small test, and it took the IWAD. And it could read the levels!
WinTex 4.0 still ignores the sounds, though, but it's all my fault. It will be
fixed on monday.
So I took a look at the HEXEN level:
- The NODES really suck, you know. WARM or even DeeP would have done better.
- The REJECT mega-ultra-absolutely suck. It's daring.
Now, Hexen has a particularities: moving walls and rotating doors:
Those do NOT appear on the map. they are put in a rectangle, and this rectangle
must NEVER BE SPLIT BY ANY NODE. The WinTex node viewer makes it all very plain.
> postings from people at raven indicate advanced levels will have their
>own c like code (akin to quakec)
Possible. there is data for that.
I think there is a lot new data to be hacked in HEXEN. Time to ask Raven
for some hints.
Some of the new lumps are just... TEXT!
yes, the sounds mappings, the level names and contents, the lightnings in
the sky are just described in text lumps. cool isn't it?
------------------------------
From: a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (drake o'brien)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 02:42:07 PST
Subject: Re: Another BSP problem
A small correction to my earlier post. The problem was getting a
'deep water' effect in the same level as a perfect transparent door.
I meantioned that if you build so the linedefs in the 'deepest
water' have the greatest index number and so on (slightly strengthening
the technique for transp doorfaces as explained in SPECIAL.HTML) and use
WARM with the -n=a option you can have 'deep water' with perfect
transp doors. Now I look closer at this 'deep water' I see that it's
slightly flawed - from some angles the partition lines as the water is
stepped can be seen. This flaw can be minimized by careful placement
of the steps but I haven't been able to eliminate it with WARM -b -n=a.
So I agree with Jens, I too haven't seen a nodebuilder that'll allow
perfect transp doors in the same level as the best 'deep water'.
But I have been able to rebuild (with a few small modifications)
SPCIAL2B.WAD so that the transp lift, stairs, rising stairs, antigrav
field, all work perfectly with a perfect transp door using
WARM -b -n=a. In all cases I split the 'special' linedefs then drew
the middle vertices to join the base of the line so the largest index
number remained, so all 'special' linedefs had the highest
index number of the immediately surrounding area. For the stairs and
rising stairs I enlarged the area defined by the 'special' linedefs
(turned the triangles into rectangles and expanded the rectangles) until
they almost filled (with a 8 pixel margin) the surrounding area. This is
because with the -n=a option the raised 'stair' area is inside the area
defined by the 'special' linedefs whereas with the BSP (or WARM -b -n=au)
build the stair fills the whole surrounding area inside and outside.
This'll make more sense if you refer to SPCIAL2B.WAD, which you can get at
http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/doom/special/
Anyhow, after doing this the result after a WARM -b -n=a build (I
always meantion the -b option when I meantion this build because it's
required for a playable level) is a level with perfect transp lift,
antigrav, invis stair, invis rising stairs (you have to take out some
wall below textures that don't show in the original build), and transp
door, but with slightly flawed but 'passable' deep water. You get the same
result with DMapEdit4.11 or WinDEU5.24 builds.
P.S., is there anywhere where all the WARM options are documented? So far
I've come across the -n=a (same as -na), -n=!a, -n=au, and default node
builds, all of which are slightly different... But I've only seen the
tersest documentation of command line options and this doesn't meantion
everything.
Also, I can't get to the new docs on the 'deep water tunnel' and 'deeper
water' at the SPECIAL page because I keep getting GPF's crashing me out.
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 06 Oct 95 12:06:42+0100
Subject: HEXEN LINEDEFS ARE OF SIZE 16
The title says it all:
Hexen's linedefs have an additional field, which make them of
size 16 instead of 14.
Here is the WinTex code for that:
/*
** Level Line Definition of HERETIC2
*/
struct H2LINEDEF
{ short VtxS; /* index of vertex start */
short VtxE; /* index of vertex end */
short Flag; /* flags 1=impassible 2=block 4=2sided 32=secret 128=not on map*/
short Type; /* special type*/
short Tag; /* sector tag*/
short Tag2; /* second tag. purpose unknown. animations?*/
short SideR;/* Index of Right SideDef (-1=null) */
short SideL;/* Index of Left SideDef (-1=null) */
};
Bare result: no editor can read the levels, except of course
WinTex 4.0 and, possibly, DEU 5.3 and EgoEd.
But WinTex 4.0 doesn't let you edit anything.
I will put on my web page a version of WinTex 4.0 that doesn't just
explodes when it sees HEXEN.WAD, but you'll have to wait for monday
for the full HEXEN support.
My page: http://www.ens.fr/~montanuy (yes, it's a shameless plug!)
WinTex will allow modification of the Hexen demo, because we need specs,
but WinTex will *not* support the modification of the HEXEN shareware.
I don't have more details about Hexen specs.
Note:
HEXEN has too many details, compared to DOOM, and it doesn't make it nicer:
it makes it worse, because of Aliasing, even though the art of Raven
is nicer than that of ID.
THE DOOM ENGINE REQUIRES THAT THE TEXTURES BE SMOOTHED AND RE-SMOOTHED.
How come everyone knows that and not those guys?
Now, someone port HEXEN on the Quake engine, and it will look real nice!
I used Wintex to extract the Hexen demo wad.
Here are a few observations:
Hexen has a different pallette than Heretic or Doom
The maps extracted as MAP01, MAP02 etc.
In the lump section I found entries on "animdefs" and behavior -thought those
were interesting.
One of the entries was called Quake2 - it was an Earth quake type sound
hmmm....
The sky texture is actually identified as being 256X200 (in Heretic this was
the sky texture size, but it was identified as 256X128 anyway.)
Wintex 3.4 seemed to recognize all of the entries and put them into the right
directories
Wintex 4.0 crashed when I tried to use it to examine the Hex Demo -(oh well,
I still haven't figured out V4.0 anyway, sorry Olivier)
Neither Windeu 5.25, Windeu 5.3, or Doomcad 6.0 could open up either the
Hexen.wad or any of the maps I extracted.
Playing Hexen I noticed:
Map01 in Hexen has just about the coolest architecture I've ever seen in any
wad
They must have a sector type of something like "lightning + thunder" that
causes the light to momentarily go to 255 and has a thunder sound at the same
time (very atmospheric)
The swinging doors are not sprites, they seem to be swinging sectors. They
also have sliding sectors and spinning sectors.
There are several types of sprites that can be broken, sprite bells that can
be rung.
There is one line def that activates floor plus ceiling crushers, but only
lasts for a limited time. There seem to be linedefs that only activate their
triggers twice or three times.
Some of the switch textures seem to have more than two animated frames
Instead of level changes, you have "etheral travel" you can travel from
level to level how ever you want, there is no fixed progression.
It appears that with Hexen we still only have 2.5D.
The weapons that I saw are cool, but they are going to have to try real hard
to beat Doom's weapons.
- -Hope this isn't redundant for too many of you out there.
Later on,
Dan Teeter (dteeter@aol.com or dteeter@inchq.com)
- --- End Included Message ---
------------------------------
From: Stefan Maes <maes@sch2.uia.ac.be>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:54:48 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Stairs than can go up/down any number of time.
After seeing the descending stairs trick a few months back, I kept thinking
about a way to make the stairs raise again and down again and up ... After
reading through the book 'Tricks of the Doom Programming Gurus' I realized it
wasn't possible using DOOM's raise stairs linedefs. So I forgot about it and
started a new raytracing project. Last week-end I tried it again and it works
now. I used little help sectors to create an 'up'-stairs and a 'down'-stairs,
so I could simply use the raise/lower floor to next highest/lowest trigger
lines. If I wanted to make the stairs go up/down any number of times I needed
a SR linedef. But if a player hits the switch several times in a row, he could
destroy the stairs and in the worst scenario even get trapped! So I created a
door before each switch, which is closed by triggering a WR close turbo door
linedef. The tricky part is to put this linedef not to far/close from the
switch to leave the player enough time to hit the switch, but only once.
Additional trigger lines somewhere at the bottom of the stairs open
these doors. But what if the switch wasn't hit properly before the door in
front of it got closed? No problem. If the stairs are in the down position,
the player can go back down and open the door for a 2nd try. When the stairs
are up, it's a bit more complicated. I added a second trigger line (shoot to
open door) at one side of the stairs (where the MARBFAC4 texture is), but it
could be placed anywhere as long as it can not be shot when the player is
upstairs and the stairs have been send down already. Also, this 'escape
route' is perfectly suited to make this whole stairs trick a very rewarding
secret. You could put tons of goodies down under... If you think this
explanation isn't very clear, don't worry. Just play the DOOM 2 demo WAD
(MAP01 - see end of this mail) and then have a look at it with your
favourite WAD-editor. Now all you death matchers may think 'What about the 2nd,
3th or 4th player? Can't (s)he still make a mess of the stairs?' No, we'll
just add a few more doors, traps, whatever to lock them out of the critical
areas once one player starts playing with the stairs.
Cheers,
Stefan.
_________ Stefan Maes - maes@uia.ua.ac.be
| | http://www.uia.ua.ac.be/u/maes/index.html
_o_ _| ___=___ |_ _o_ University of Antwerp (UIA)
/`-'\( ) ( )/`-'\ Chemistry Department
| |-| ___*___ |-| | Universiteitsplein 1
| | | (-+-+-+-) | | | 2610 Wilrijk Tel : +32 3 820 23 65
| |--\_BAH_219_/--| | BELGIUM Fax : +32 3 820 23 56
--- ---
The 'WWW' touch Raytraced Darts and LEGO Pictures
Excalibur WAD File -- An All-Time Best Doom Level
* If you don't like what you're reading, read with your eyes closed *
- --------------------------------- Cut here -------------------------------
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end
- --------------------------------- Cut here -------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Gregg J. Anderson" <gander@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:07:50 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Hexen extraction info
On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, joost schuur wrote:
>
> On Thu, 5 Oct 1995 DTeeter@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> > Wintex 3.4 seemed to recognize all of the entries and put them into the right
> > directories
>
I was able to view the sprites with DETH, subbing hexen.wad for doom2.wad.
in DOOM2.CFG
I was unable to get the maps up in the editor, but *all* of the sprites
from the full game appear to be there. They can also probably be viewed
with any DEU clone editor. just hit 'v' at the opening screen.
I was incredibly impressed with the hexen demo. Those blowing leaves
had me saying 'cool!' out loud... :-) I also think that the architecture
in the first outdoor area in the first map was very good.
Just how the heck do those sliding sectors and swinging doors work, anyhow?
I hope it is something that can be fairly easily plugged into existing
editors, like a new sector type or something similar...
happy hacking,
=Gregg=
_____________________________________________________________________________
Gregg J. Anderson =o= gander@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
Mankato State University =o= gander@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Mankato, MN USA =o= Flames: Barney@purple.dino.CIA.gov
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GCS/MU/O d? H S g=(?) p? au-->+ a- wH V- C++>++++ UU>Lu(u-) P+ L 3 E N++
K++ W--- M-- V-@ -po+ Y+ ++@ !5 jx R G? tv- b+(b) D++>+++ B++ e+>e- u++(u)
h+@ F? r* n-- y+>++ Necrophiliacs unite! --Support Dr. Kevorkian!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
From: mustaine@usa.net (Tom Mustaine)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 06:27:36 -0600
Subject: Questions about hard coded stuff
Ok, I was wondering if there is a way to chage some of the Hard Coded keys
in Hexen, Doom, Heretic, and Doom2. The keys that Talk to specific players
in deathmatch (in doom I=indigo R=red G=Green And so on) Also, possibly to
remove the 'Q' Key to end a demo (change it to something else) and remove
the T key in deathmatch and make it something else.
I would REALLY appreciate if somebody from raven or ID see this message,
that they add to the Setup or the CFG file a set of choices for those above
mentioned keys. Mainly becuase In hexen and heretic espically, There are a
ton of keys, and there are lots of people who dont play with the default key
setting. So when playing in deathmatch you try to do something, like look
up, look down, or fly up or whatever, you end up talking to somebody, for
example - I have my hexen keys set up as such (or used to until a few net games)
Q=turn left W=forward E=Turn right
A=Strafe left S=Back D=Strafe Right
R=Look up (talks to red player in 4 mode) F=look down V=center look
T=Fly up (Definite problem in Deathmatch game) G=Fly down (antother problem)
and B=Fly center (talks to the Blue guy)
PLEASE for the love of god, have those keys changable in the CFG file on the
final release of hexen. And for you de-hacked people, If you have found
pointers that will change those keys, please let me know. OR, if anybody
knows where to mail beta bugs and suggestions for hexen to raven, please let
me know as well. Thanks
<( Tom Mustaine )>
<( Keeper of things developed )>
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #435
**********************************
