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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 433
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #433
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Friday, 6 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 433
DHE -> monsters drop other weapons
Re: Tracers
Dammit! I screwed up!
Editing for Performance
Re: Tracers
Re: Another BSP problem
Obejct lesson (was Re: Capture-The-Flag Implemented)
Re: DHE -> monsters drop other weapons
Re: Another BSP problem
Re: Editing for Performance
Re: Another BSP problem
Re: DHE -> monsters drop other weapons
Re: Another BSP problem
Doom and Quake :-)
Re: Another BSP problem
hexen-editing
Re: Another BSP problem
Re: Another BSP problem
Re: Another BSP problem
Re: Dammit! I screwed up!
Re: Re: Capture-The-Flag Implemented
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:28:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: DHE -> monsters drop other weapons
I'm not sure if this is general knowledge or not, but I just found
that is possible to make the sargeants drop plasma rifles or any other
object. Basically, Doom is hardcoded that the sargeant will drop Thing
#78 (normally the shotgun), and the chaingunner is hardcoded to drop
Thing #74. If you wish them to drop something else, merely change that
Thing to whatever you want. I.e., swap Things #77 and #78, the shotgun
and plasma rifle, and sargeants will drop plasma rifles for the player
to use. I imagine it can be used to make them drop anything, even (!)
invin or invis spheres for deathmatch, which normally do not respawn.
Hmm... <evil grin> Or maybe even other monsters. Sargeants drop
chaingunners which drop revenants... I like this idea.
Greg
------------------------------
From: misc335@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 00:18:44 +1300
Subject: Re: Tracers
> I realise that! my point was to mix up the code pointers to make the
> chaingun (whatever) shoot like the plasma and thus spit tracers like the
> gun in aliens tc. Then you'd have to edit the plasma bullet to look like
> tracer fire and set the speed extremely high. Maybe if you rig the
> graphics right the tracer can look like its going right THROUGH a player :)
I once made a brief attempt at changing the plasma speed, it screwed up
its "auto-aiming" and the plasma would go anywhere but straight ahead... :)
------------------------------
From: thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:05:37 -0800 (PDT)
Subject: Dammit! I screwed up!
As you've probably seen by now, I mistakenly sent not one but THREE
copies of my capture-the-flag example-level to the list. I did NOT
intend for this to happen, and I'm sorry that it did. I really thought
I was replying to individual requests, directly to those who made them.
None of those were supposed to go to the list. I should've been
paying closer attention to what I was doing. I feel terrible.
Man, I can't believe I screwed up this badly. Please don't kill me...
Brian
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: arizona@harpo.wh.att.com (Peter A Dempsey)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:40:30 +0500
Subject: Editing for Performance
What can anyone out there tell me about performance of PWADs.
Does a PWAD run slower that an equivalently complex level in the
original Doom.wad?
When I add alternate sounds (such as my favorite death scream)
does that make it slower?
Should I worry about more vs fewer nodes? When I used to use
DEU in DOS (sorry I dont remember the version number), it
would snap to grid. Now, with WinDEU, it doesn't (or I havent found
it's snap to grid option). The upshot of all this is that rooms built
from perfect rectangles end up with fewer nodes than those built
with almost rectangles. Does it matter?
What should I be doing / not doing to keep from bogging down the game?
And finally, (risking a non-editing but still doom question :-)
When I have a modem game from my machine to a friends slower
(486 strait 50MHz) machine at 9600baud. Is the bottleneck his
machine, or the modem?
_ /| P.Dempsey
\'o.O' arizona@harpo.wh.att.com
=(___)=
U
ACK! PHHT!
------------------------------
From: Julian Peterson <julianp@atlas.otago.ac.nz>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 08:56:19 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject: Re: Tracers
On Sun, 1 Oct 1995 LummoxJR@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Greg's idea of modified projectiles has merit, though. But I'd change it from
> shooting 4 bullets and a projectile to shooting nothing but modified
> projectiles. To do it, though, you'd need to hijack two of them (rockets,
> plasma, BFG), and make them alike, setting one (the one used 4 times) to be
> invisible. If you did that, you'd probably want to change some of the weapons
> to use non-hijacked projectiles.
>
> Lummox JR
> always up for a new idea
>
It would be better if the chaingun (has anyone ever pointed out that it
isn't actually a chaingun) still fired bullets as well, that way you don't
lose the long range effectiveness of the thing. Whoever tries it (Like I
think I will) should just experiment to find a good tracer to bullet ratio.
later,
Julian.
(julianp@atlas.otago.ac.nz)
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:16:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Another BSP problem
On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, Arek Wojciechowski wrote:
> I am working on my level, and decide that it needs the deep water effect.
> So I create it fine, then run WARM on it (my usual node builder), and find
> that it does not properly display the water. No problem I say, I'll just
> use BSP. I run BSP, and it craps out with a floating point exception. No
> problem I say, I'll just use ZenNode. It craps out with illeagal
> somethinorother in module ZENNODE.EXE (this is the dos version!).
>
> So..... I believe the problem is 2 verticies on to of each other,
> and thats why only WARM works... correct?
Vertices on top of others isn't a problem by itself. It's a
problem only if two vertices have a zero-length line between them. WARM
will discard such lines. I don't know if other node builders do or not
(though perhaps they don't given your description above). You need to
use the -n=a node building option to get the deep water effect to work right.
WARM normally does some optimizations during node building, but these
need to be disabled when one desires any special effects.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 09:36:53 +0100
Subject: Obejct lesson (was Re: Capture-The-Flag Implemented)
At 8:52 am 2/10/95, Brian Kidby used REPLY for the third time to write:
>> How big's the file? If it's pretty small I'll take it.
>
>Just save this reply to a text-file and uudecode it.
>
>
>Attachment converted: Li'le Paddy:d2flag.zip 3 (????/----) (0000217E)
Now, does this demonstrate why *personal* requests should be handled with
*personal* mail and not REPLIES sent via the list? Brian has failed to
notice that three people mailed him via the list and that that was where
*his* replies to those three then went. Please, please, please, people,
engage brain before mailing. And Brian, you let me down, buddy. Are you
standing on plastic....?
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: Pandion-Knight <s337239@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:47:03 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Subject: Re: DHE -> monsters drop other weapons
On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Greg Lewis wrote:
> object. Basically, Doom is hardcoded that the sargeant will drop Thing
> #78 (normally the shotgun), and the chaingunner is hardcoded to drop
> Thing #74. If you wish them to drop something else, merely change that
> Thing to whatever you want. I.e., swap Things #77 and #78, the shotgun
> and plasma rifle, and sargeants will drop plasma rifles for the player
> to use. I imagine it can be used to make them drop anything, even (!)
> invin or invis spheres for deathmatch, which normally do not respawn.
>
> Greg
>
As a wierd extension to this.. does anyone know how to make a shotgun guy
fire double barrel shotguns ?? cos my idea is to pump doom by making
troopers into shotgun guys and shotgun guys into double barrel guys...
and so on... i think i saw a wad in which it was done (revenge.deh ??)
but i havent figured out how...
btw.. the troopers dropping megaspheres would be fun :) make a dm level
with a few monsters and everyon runs to frag the monsters :)
Christopher Voutsis
Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
IRC: Pandion (after 9pm most nights :)
------------------------------
From: Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg <hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:28:07 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: Another BSP problem
Robert Fenske Jr writes:
>You need to
>use the -n=a node building option to get the deep water effect to work right.
It is my experience that even with the -n=a option WARM will not
always build the DEEP water effect "correctly".
I still haven't seen a nodebuilder that will let you build
DEEP water and perfect transparent doors in the same level.
(Maybe DME can do it, but I can't get it to work)
/Jens
- --
Jens Hykkelbjerg | "Civilisation began with the felling
Aarhus Universitet | of the first tree; and, it will end
Email: hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk | with the felling of the last."
WWW: http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/index.html
------------------------------
From: Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg <hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:24:42 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: Editing for Performance
Peter A Dempsey writes:
>What can anyone out there tell me about performance of PWADs.
>Does a PWAD run slower that an equivalently complex level in the
>original Doom.wad?
I think the most common reason a WAD is slower than the equivalent
DOOM IWAD is that the reject map is not built properly.
I suggest you use my utility RMB, or use a nodebuilder like WARM
that builds a good reject map.
(Only nodebuilder I know of that does that)
Both RMB and WARM builds much better reject maps than id's
builders.
- --
Jens Hykkelbjerg | "Civilisation began with the felling
Aarhus Universitet | of the first tree; and, it will end
Email: hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk | with the felling of the last."
WWW: http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/index.html
------------------------------
From: sheaslip@panix.com (Stephen Heaslip)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:24:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Another BSP problem
>Robert Fenske Jr writes:
>
>>You need to
>>use the -n=a node building option to get the deep water effect to work right.
>
>It is my experience that even with the -n=a option WARM will not
>always build the DEEP water effect "correctly".
>
>I still haven't seen a nodebuilder that will let you build
>DEEP water and perfect transparent doors in the same level.
>(Maybe DME can do it, but I can't get it to work)
I had the same problem using deep water and trasparent platforms in the same
level. Try Warm with the option -n=au. It did the trick for me.
- --
blue (Steve Heaslip)
"A thing derided is a thing dead; a laughing man is stronger than a
suffering man."
-Gustave Flaubert
------------------------------
From: Ted Vessenes <tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:39:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: DHE -> monsters drop other weapons
> As a wierd extension to this.. does anyone know how to make a shotgun guy
> fire double barrel shotguns ?? cos my idea is to pump doom by making
> troopers into shotgun guys and shotgun guys into double barrel guys...
> and so on... i think i saw a wad in which it was done (revenge.deh ??)
> but i havent figured out how...
>
> btw.. the troopers dropping megaspheres would be fun :) make a dm level
> with a few monsters and everyon runs to frag the monsters :)
I can't answer your question, but I can shed a few more shadows on this
matter. Your normal shotgun produces 7 bullets spread out across a
horizontal line. Your supershotgun produces 19 bullets (note that 19 > 7*2)
spread out over a circular area. The shotgun sargeant's shotgun produces
a measly 3 bullets (on a line). Just making them shoot 7 bullets would be
bad enough. Incidently, this is why Imps usually win a battle versus a
shotgun sargeant, even though the sargeant usually hits the imp first, and
it only takes one shotgun blast (from YOUR shotgun) to kill an imp.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
| "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tjvessen@midway. | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
uchicago.edu | -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (drake o'brien)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 08:33:20 PST
Subject: Re: Another BSP problem
Jens Hykkelbjerg writes:
>Robert Fenske Jr writes:
>>You need to
>>use the -n=a node building option to get the deep water effect
>>to work right.
>It is my experience that even with the -n=a option WARM will not
>always build the DEEP water effect "correctly".
>I still haven't seen a nodebuilder that will let you build
>DEEP water and perfect transparent doors in the same level.
>(Maybe DME can do it, but I can't get it to work)
If you run SPCIAL2B.WAD thru' WARM -b -n=a you will find that the swimpool
looks good from outside but has 'bleeding ceiling' from inside, and that the
transparent lift works but has HOM. However, if you split the linedefs of
the lift (the tagged sector) and draw the middle vertices to the base of the
split lines until they join, so the lift lindefs are greatest in the area,
you will eliminate the HOM. Likewise for the swimpool. If you split the
linedefs such that the greatest index numbers are in the center (I did it
progressively from the outside toward the center) you eliminate the
'bleeding ceiling' problem. So you with WARM -b -n=a you can have perfect
doors in the same level as a good 'deep water' or transparent lift.
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 05 Oct 95 19:13:36+0100
Subject: Doom and Quake :-)
[note for the list admin: this mail also talks of DOOM ] ;-)
I have put out some Quake specs (with the kind
permission of John Romero) on my home page.
They are totally obsolete of course, but they should give you
enough hints concerning the way Quake is gonna be so much
supperior to DOOM (technically). The use of BSP in DOOM was
actually sub optimal.
Anyone cares to rewrite the DOOM engine with those BSP
usage improvements? (and anyone knows how the heck they could
do moving doors in HEXEN, despite the BSP?)
BTW: we lose the REJECT map effects in Quake. So have as much fun
as you can with the reject maps of DOOM, HERETIC and HEXEN, until
it's too late ;-)
(my page: http://www.ens.fr/~montanuy )
Olivier Montanuy (WinTex author)
ps:
Those spec don't mention the use of light effects in Quake,sorry.
Only level and alias models.
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 14:27:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Another BSP problem
> From: Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg <hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk>
> It is my experience that even with the -n=a option WARM will not
> always build the DEEP water effect "correctly".
>
> I still haven't seen a nodebuilder that will let you build
> DEEP water and perfect transparent doors in the same level.
> (Maybe DME can do it, but I can't get it to work)
I just made a level (for the soon to be released TNT/E Project) that
uses both the deep water effect and the invisible door effect in the
same level.
I use warm14 for the node building but with *no* options. I am not
sure that the door is actually perfect (it is difficult to watch it
open in the finished product) however I don't remember any
detectable bugs in it when I was building it. Now, DEU complained
like a big dog during it's error checking but, warm built it just
fine.
If you want to check it out you will have to wait two weeks(tm)
Have a great day,
johnw
****Stereographic Sig - Unfocus eyes until two Xs merge****
::::::::::::::::::X::::::::::::::::X:::::::::::::::::::::::
:::E]:;[]::: [] :::::::::::::::: [] :::""":::[];:[3:::
:::EL__/]::::\____ :::::::::::::::: ____/:::...:::[\__J3:::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
****You should see a 3d blurry image of a computer screen****
------------------------------
From: joost schuur <jschuur@acmepet.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:52:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: hexen-editing
i was wondering how many of you have looked into this yet. seems as if
raven has promised some specs and possibly some of their developement
tools soon for hexen.
</j>
_ ___ ___
=====| |/ _ \/ __|===========================================================
| | (_) \__ \ jschuur@acmepet.com lotlhwI on IRC
_/ |\___/|___/ http://home.pages.de/~jschuur/ go away
===|__/================================================nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'=
------------------------------
From: Arek Wojciechowski <awojciec@FLASH.LakeheadU.CA>
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 17:34:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Another BSP problem
On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Robert Fenske Jr wrote:
> Vertices on top of others isn't a problem by itself. It's a
> problem only if two vertices have a zero-length line between them. WARM
> will discard such lines. I don't know if other node builders do or not
> (though perhaps they don't given your description above). You need to
> use the -n=a node building option to get the deep water effect to work right.
> WARM normally does some optimizations during node building, but these
> need to be disabled when one desires any special effects.
>
> Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
> Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
> Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
> San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
>
I have solved the vertex problem (thanks to all), but if you see
later posts, I cannot get the deep water effect and the transparent doors
to work correctly in the same level. WARM will not make a perfect deep
water, even with n=a, which is what I use all the time. Please correct me
if I am wrong on this, as I would like to get both the effect in my wad.
Arek.
------------------------------
From: a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (drake o'brien)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 14:02:11 PST
Subject: Re: Another BSP problem
Stephen Heaslip writes:
>>I still haven't seen a nodebuilder that will let you build
>>DEEP water and perfect transparent doors in the same level.
>>(Maybe DME can do it, but I can't get it to work)
>I had the same problem using deep water and trasparent platforms
>in the same level. Try Warm with the option -n=au. It did the
>trick for me.
The problem wasn't deep water with transparent platforms, it was deep water
with transparent doors. Running SPCIAL2B.WAD thru' WARM -b -n=au gives the
identical result. If SPCIAL2B.WAD was originally built with Colin Reed's
BSP this means that WARM -b -n=au is equivalent to BSP. This results in
transparent doors with a 'bleeding ceiling' problem, always.
John Wakelin writes:
>I just made a level (for the soon to be released TNT/E Project)
>that uses both the deep water effect and the invisible door effect
>in the same level.
>I use warm14 for the node building but with *no* options. I am
>not sure that the door is actually perfect (it is difficult to
>watch it open in the finished product) ....
>If you want to check it out you will have to wait two weeks(tm)
In fact this door (I've seen it) has 'bleeding ceiling' problem, as do all
doors done with WARM default (unless constructed to hide it).
I'll reiterate my earlier remark on how to get perfect transparent doors (no
HOM or bleeding ceiling) and deep water in the same level:
use WARM -b -n=a
split the linedefs of both doorfaces and draw the middle vertices to join
the vertex at the foot of the linedef, so the doorfaces have the largest
index number of the area (as per the advice in SPECIAL.HTML).
use the identical technique on the deepwater. Split the linedefs
progressively from shallow to deep, drawing the middle vertices to join as
above, so the linedefs defining the deepest water have the largest index
numbers, and so on.
Use the identical technique on transparent lifts. I haven't tried it yet on
transparent stairs...
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 19:10:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Another BSP problem
> From: Arek Wojciechowski <awojciec@FLASH.LakeheadU.CA>
> I have solved the vertex problem (thanks to all), but if you see
> later posts, I cannot get the deep water effect and the transparent doors
> to work correctly in the same level. WARM will not make a perfect deep
> water, even with n=a, which is what I use all the time. Please correct me
> if I am wrong on this, as I would like to get both the effect in my wad.
Drake just pointed out to me that the level I was refering to before
did, in fact, have a fairly *im*perfect transparent door when compiled
with warm <no args> compiling with warm n=a fixed the door but
screwed up the deep water. Drake noticed that the floor texture in
the 'deep' sectors was not the same as the...er...bleeding?...sectors
(the non-deep surrounding sectors from which the deep area picks up
it's floor). When the floor texture was changed so that all the
sectors in the deep area were consistant, and the level was compiled
with warm -n=a ...perfect door...*and* perfect water.
Have a great day,
johnw
****Stereographic Sig - Unfocus eyes until two Xs merge****
::::::::::::::::::X::::::::::::::::X:::::::::::::::::::::::
:::E]:;[]::: [] :::::::::::::::: [] :::""":::[];:[3:::
:::EL__/]::::\____ :::::::::::::::: ____/:::...:::[\__J3:::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
****You should see a 3d blurry image of a computer screen****
------------------------------
From: Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:57:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Dammit! I screwed up!
In your message dated Tuesday 3, October 1995 you wrote :
> Man, I can't believe I screwed up this badly. Please don't kill me...
>
FRAG, FRAG, FRAG, FRAG, FRAG, FRAG!! (heh, heh... only joking kiddies!)
------------------------------
From: Jim Wraith <jim@kildare.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:56:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Capture-The-Flag Implemented
Okay, you can beta test.... I probably won't post it to the list as it's pretty
humongous. Maybe I will. It's turned into a full-fledged DM level, and instead
of using switches it has Commande Keens. For people that have never played it
before, all the Keens are surrounded by lines with Secret (Red Line), and always
on map. It's looking cool...
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #433
**********************************
