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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 387
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #387
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Tuesday, 22 August 1995 Volume 01 : Number 387
Re: player 1-4 attributes
Projectile lay with projectile and begat projectile jr.
RCPT: Re: Data utility license ???
Re: Sky texture warping (long)
Re: visplane overflow/UDS Errata update
WHat ever happened?
Re: player 1-4 attributes
Re: WHat ever happened?
Re: WHat ever happened?
Re: Sky texture warping (long)
Un-hacking doom?
Re: Projectiles disappearing
Graphic editing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ted Vessenes <tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 19:23:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: player 1-4 attributes
> I was checking Ultimate Doomm with my my favorite doom editor and came
> across an error with the player starts. Does Doom use the skill flags for
> the player starts? In E4M3 and E4M8 player 1-4 starts have no skill flags
> set but the levels are playable. Has anybody tried making a wad with player
> 1-4 starts set at differenct locations depending on the skill level?
No, but I've tried with different deathmatch starts for different skills.
Doesn't do anything, unfortunately.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: spockto@netdepot.com (Spock To)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 02:30:46 -0400
Subject: Projectile lay with projectile and begat projectile jr.
Everyone seems to be concerned that this would lead to infinate projectiles=
=20
and eventually crash the game, unless you had a very large room (and I mean=
=20
_huge_) this couldn't happen, the reason is quite simple, missles blow up or=
=20
disperse when they hit something, you would get more and more missles for=20
awhile but the old ones will hit something and go away, there is an upper=20
limit that for most computers, assuming not a huge room, would be not enough=
=20
to make it crash, also, they would all get closer and closer to a wall until=
=20
eventually there wouldn't be time for the last generation to spawn before it=
=20
hit the wall. (just a thought, it would be neat to have a missle that spits=
=20
another one out the front every 1/2 second or so going a a slightly higher=
=20
speed then the original, and that one would spit a missle out the front=
etc.)
Spock To (Doomer extrordinair=E9, occasional hacker, and thread starter)
ps look for Booted.zip and Castlemania (cstmania.zip) coming soon.
Boothill TC Collection of best castle based wads
pps if you have nominations for Castlemania, email a discription and name=20
and ill let you know if i havent seen them.
Geek Code:
GO dgq H+(---) s+. !g !p au- a21 w+ v>++ c+1/2 Udon't ask N++ W+>++ M--
po---@ Y+1/2 t+++ 5++ R tv+ b+++ D++ B-- e+>++ U++(*) h+ f? n-@ y+=20
------------------------------
From: "C.D.Scott" <C.D.Scott@sheffield.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 10:11:51 +0100
Subject: RCPT: Re: Data utility license ???
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 14 Jul 95 17:12
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: Data utility license ???
Was read at 10:11, 21 Aug 95.
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 11:02:26 +0200
Subject: Re: Sky texture warping (long)
> Greg Lewis wrote:
>I have a feeling that the
>stripes would appear to be twice as far apart near the edge of the screen
>as in the center.
This is sometimes (mistaken?) as "fishbowl" or "fisheye" effect. You might
note that walls as distorted in the same way.
In a 2D world description like DOOM, rendering (aka determining 320x200
pixel colors) breaks down to determining texture and texture column index
associated with a certain (part of) a given screen column. The DOOM-style
approach to do this is described e.g. in the file accompanying the ITT
demo by William Doughty (I'll prolly put this on the UDS Errata page soon).
There are two types of textures (except floors, which are entirely
different): walls and backgrounds (aka sky). Differences for rendering
purposes are that walls do scale with distance, and are affected by
alignment offsets, while sky uses topmost screen row (or some offeset
related to limited looking up/down aka y shearing).
More important, the sky texture column index depends on viewing angle
only, NOT on view position.
The "warping" is due to the fact that there are two different ways of
association a view ray's angle with a screen column, roughly speaking:
a) ray angle[i] = ((i/319)-0.5)*total angle of view
b) ray angle[i] = arctan( (((i/319)-0.5)*2 )
assuming that screen width is 320 columns, total viewing angle is 90
degrees horizontally... (did I forget anything?).
Now (a) - DOOM-style rendering - is pretty linear in angle,
and non-linear within the viewplane and in terms of assigning texture
column indices. You'll get "warping" of walls on the left and right.
The funny thing is that you have to do a more complicated calculation
to determine sky texture column indices if you want the sky to do the
same "warping" (else you are using the viewing angle and have a
"non-warping" sky).
I'd say that "warping" nearby walls and "non-warping" sky just does
not look "right". If you're using ray angle lookups and if you're
determining the texture column index for each screen column, you
might in principle do arbitrary distortions (or use (b)). The DOOM-style
warping near the left and right edge of field of vision makes up for
an additional feeling of "speedy" movement, I guess.
Note that this affects the tiling width of sky textures, too. DOOM does
map 256 SKYx columns to 320 screen columns using (a), but you'll need
texture width == 320 using (b) w/o scaling mulplies (assuming that sky
repeats for times on 360 degree, of course).
Just my two cents. Hope this helps.
B.
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 12:22:37 +0200
Subject: Re: visplane overflow/UDS Errata update
Robert Fenske provided a WAD which demonstrates visplane
overflows. I put it on the UDS Errata page for download.
I took the opportunity to add some error reports on
the UDS and the Heretic NOISE cheat description to the
UDS Errata (sections marked with "NEW"). In addition,
I added a link to William Doughty's description of
DOOM-style texture mapping details.
You'll find the updated page on
http://www.nero.uni-bonn.de/~bernd/uds.html
If you've any problems accessing the page, or want to
tell me about corrections, please send mail to
bernd@nero.uni-bonn.de.
I digged up the stuff on overlayed line-switches
posted by Drake O'Brien in june, but haven't found
the time to merge it into the UDS errata, yet. Is
there a summary available already?
B.
------------------------------
From: M&Ms <millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 07:57:58 CST
Subject: WHat ever happened?
A group of people went out months months months ago to create a complete episode
for DOOM2. (Actually, there were 2 groups.) One died. Anyone know what happened
to the other group?
P.S. What is the name of the swirling-projectile-wind Heretic wad? Thanx.
_ o o | Michael (millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu) (TEAM OS2) | _º_
\/o\ o o | (M&M's) Home:Johnson Creek; Work:UW-Whitewater | -=O O=-
/\_/ | (HHJJ BBS;414-699-5560;8am-2am CST;VBBS/2-Warp | \0/
------------------------------
From: mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 10:33:35 -0500
Subject: Re: player 1-4 attributes
> > I was checking Ultimate Doomm with my my favorite doom editor and came
> > across an error with the player starts. Does Doom use the skill flags for
> > the player starts? In E4M3 and E4M8 player 1-4 starts have no skill flags
> > set but the levels are playable. Has anybody tried making a wad with player
> > 1-4 starts set at differenct locations depending on the skill level?
>
> No, but I've tried with different deathmatch starts for different skills.
> Doesn't do anything, unfortunately.
>
I tried making a wad with different player starts for different skills. All I did was
create clones. So the only way for an editor to check for player starts and deathmatch
starts is to check the "type" and not the skill levels.
Mark Mathews mmathews@genesis.nred.ma.us TEAM OS/2, TEAM DEU
Are you using DEU, WARM or DEUTEX for DOOM? WHY NOT??
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 10:52:54 -0500
Subject: Re: WHat ever happened?
> From: M&Ms <millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu>
> A group of people went out months months months ago to create a complete episode
> for DOOM2. (Actually, there were 2 groups.) One died. Anyone know what happened
> to the other group?
The project is going quite well, actually. It is very near
completion. Announcements of a release date should be being made
to the usual places by our promotional team very soon.
BTW - I've played most of it, and it is HOT.
Keep a look out for it.
johnw
****Stereographic Sig - Unfocus eyes until two Xs merge****
:::::::::::::::::::X::::::::::::::::X:::::::::::::::::::::::
:::E]:;[]:::: [] :::::::::::::::: [] :::""":::[];:[3:::
:::EL__/]:::::\____ :::::::::::::::: ____/:::...:::[\__J3:::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
****You should see a 3d blurry image of a computer screen****
------------------------------
From: thldrmn@neosoft.com (Ty Halderman)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 11:34:47 -0500
Subject: Re: WHat ever happened?
>A group of people went out months months months ago to create a complete
episode
>for DOOM2. (Actually, there were 2 groups.) One died. Anyone know what
happened
>to the other group?
We (TNT-Alpha team) exist and are in final stages of assembly and testing of
TNT:Evilution. It's likely there will be a followon second phase, once this
puppy's out the door. Check
http://starbase.neosoft.com/~thldrmn/thewad.html for info.
There was another group as well, besides the TNT-Beta team (that died, it
appears), but I don't know what happened to them and don't recall the
contact for it.
I'll announce the next phase when/if we get into it.
=-Ty
[ Ty Halderman <thldrmn@neosoft.com> ]
[ Keeper of things miscellaneous ]
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 13:10:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Sky texture warping (long)
> The funny thing is that you have to do a more complicated calculation
> to determine sky texture column indices if you want the sky to do the
> same "warping" (else you are using the viewing angle and have a
> "non-warping" sky).
Hmmm, that's the strange thing. Why do extra calculations to warp the
sky texture, when it would seem to be easier just to take a 320 by x
texture and slap it up on the screen, with an offset determined by the
current player's angle.
> I'd say that "warping" nearby walls and "non-warping" sky just does
> not look "right". If you're using ray angle lookups and if you're
> determining the texture column index for each screen column, you
> might in principle do arbitrary distortions (or use (b)). The DOOM-style
> warping near the left and right edge of field of vision makes up for
> an additional feeling of "speedy" movement, I guess.
But Doom doesn't leave warping walls, does it? I mean, if you stand a
ways back from a straight wall that runs horizontally all the way across
the screen, you don't see the wall warping "in" on the edges of the
screen. It appears to be a totally flat wall, with straight upper and
lower edges. And it wouldn't make sense to merely expand the outer cols
of the screen by some factor, because that just (in essence) reduces the
effective resolution to 300x200 or something.
Greg
------------------------------
From: Michael Shea <mshea@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 11:40:18 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Un-hacking doom?
Forgive this if it's a Hopeless Newbie[tm] question, but how can
you un-hack doom? I've tried to upgrade, but it says something like
"this game has been modified, can't patch" or something like that. Is
there anything, short of re-installation that I can do?
Mike
------------------------------
From: wdwhitak@grissom.jpl.nasa.gov (William D. Whitaker)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 12:16:14 PDT
Subject: Re: Projectiles disappearing
> Hello,
>
> Has anybody experienced a bug with their wads where a
> projectile (rocket, plasma, bfg) would go right through the
> wall withough "dying"(dehacked term)? It seems fine when I
> shoot the projectile, however instead of hitting the wall and
> exploding or whatever, it just goes right through the wall and
> nothing happens.
Well, this is what me and my buddy have been calling the fsky bug... the
effect you seeing is the effect when you shoot a projectile from a high
point into fsky, except it occurs for non-fsky textures on lower LineDefs.
The doom seems to flag the entire LineDef as "infinite" for projectiles if
DOOM displays f-sky on an exposed upper SideDef (lower SideDefs?). The
fact that there is not a non-fsky upper texture (or flat) sector (Sector
C below) displayed behind the lower fsky sector (Sector B below) most
likely contributes to DOOM flagging LineDef A/B (below) as the maps outter
LineDef to projectiles, otherwise this would show up everywhere. If it is
a bug, its because DOOM treats it as a LineDef attribute, independant of
the texture on the lower SideDef.
AsciiArtMode(on)
POV: looking crosscut 4 sectors along map edge.
FSKY
- -----------------------------------+ Hight=304
|
| FSKY FSKY
+-------+------------+ Hight=256
| |
| |
| |
| |
| FSKY |
+-------+ +---------+ Hight=128
|FLOR4_8| |FLOOR4_8 |
| | | |
| | | |
PLAYER | | | |
| | | |
- -----------------------------------+ +------------+ Hight=0
FLOOR4_8 FLOOR4_8
^ ^ ^ ^
| | | |
sidedefs: 2s 2s 2s 1s
| | | |
<-----------SECTOR A-------------->|<SEC B>|<-SECTOR C->|<-SEC D->| off-map
If the Player shoots at the lower SideDef A/B the projectial will
"disappear"... even if set impassible (of course). It also occurs here...
POV: looking crosscut 4 sectors along map edge.
FSKY
- -----------------------------------+ Height=304
|
| FSKY
+-------+ Height=256
| |
| |
| |
| |
| FSKY |
+-------+---------+ Height=128
|FLOR4_8 FLOOR4_8 |
| |
| |
PLAYER | |
| |
- -----------------------------------+ Height=0
FLOOR4_8
^ ^ ^
| | |
sidedefs: 2s 2s 1s
| | |
<-----------SECTOR X-------------->|<SEC Y>|<SECTOR Z> off-map
This occurs when the player (facing the A/B (or X/Y) Lower SideDef) fires
at the wall. I used iddt, iddt to watch the projectle, which does not
pass through LineDef A/B (or X/Y), it just vanishes.
One Solution:
POV: looking crosscut 4 sectors along map edge.
FSKY FSKY
- -----------------------------------+-------+ Height=304
|
|
|
| |
| |
| |
| FSKY |
+-------+---------+ Height=128
|FLOR4_8 FLOOR4_8 |
| |
| |
PLAYER | |
| |
- -----------------------------------+ Height=0
FLOOR4_8
^ ^ ^
| | |
sidedefs: 2s 2s 1s
| | |
<-----------SECTOR X-------------->|<SEC Y>|<SECTOR Z> off-map
AsciiArtMode(off)
The problem dosent occur in this last case, because there is no
height changes in the two sectors with F-sky flats, hence no F-sky
is displayed on the exposed upper SideDef.
Now this _could_ have its uses... like for a deathmatch arena
(or single player map) where the player wouldnt be able to
benefit from rocket and BFG misses...
> Does anybody know what causes this bug? Does it have to do
> with the design of the level? I'm using BSP v1.2x (within DCK
> v2.2) as a node builder; does it have something to do with that?
> Help would be greatly appreciated.
I think this is not a function of the editors... there is no
hook that allows its selection, as I understand it. BSP?, I
dont think so, Ive seen it in non-BSP built maps... but not sure
on this one, try WARM.
Now that I think about it, this may explain why the Platform
in MAP16 with the Plasma guns on it sometimes lets the BFG
blast just disappear... bummer, that our favorite 4-player
Deathmatch map in DOOM2. Gotta check that out.
-Bill
------------------------------
From: "Erwen L. Tang" <etang@pen.k12.va.us>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 19:12:59 EDT
Subject: Graphic editing
Hello,
I'm getting to the point where I want to mess with graphics.
I guess I want to start off with figuring out how to work with
the F_SKY texture. If anyone has sucessfully replaced this
texture, please give me some help on where to start and what to
watch out for.
- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Erwen Tang | Tel: (703) 803-8940 | \|/ ____ \|/ |
| Class of 1997 | Add: etang@pen.k12.va.us | @~/ ,. \~@ |
| Thomas Jefferson | etang@capaccess.org | /_( \__/ )_\ |
| High School For | etang@lan.tjhsst.edu | \__U_/ |
| Science & Technology | | |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Flame Shield operating 24hr. Flames will be deleted so don't bother. |
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------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #387
**********************************
