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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 372
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #372
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 9 August 1995 Volume 01 : Number 372
A big room problem.
Re: Special effects
Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
Re: A big room problem.
Re: A big room problem.
Quake Technical speculations
Re: A visiplane overflow solution
Re: Demos
Re: A visiplane overflow solution
Re: Quake Technical speculations
Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
REMINDER: Quake-stuff
Re: A visiplane overflow solution
DeuTex
Re: Demos
Re: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
WAD Editors
Re: ROTT Mailing List?
Re: WAD Editors
Re: ROTT Mailing List?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: JOHC@novo.dk (JOHC)
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:51:48 +0100
Subject: A big room problem.
Hi.
I'm creating a very big room(big hall) in which I wan't to put several
smaller rooms (shops) with lower ceilings.
The big room has a normal ceiling texture. The shops should be "real"
rooms that can be entered.
But I want to be able to look over the shops - through the big room. When
standing on higher grounds I would like to "look down" at the shops...
Is it possible?
Has this been discussed in this newsgroup before - do not kill me.
Jesper
JOHC@novo.dk
------------------------------
From: Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg <hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:27:06 +0200 (METDST)
Subject: Re: Special effects
Dennis Nabieszko writes:
>I'm a new subscriber to Doom Editing, can someone explain to me, or tell where I can find the instructions for the Special FX metioned above? THNX in advance!
Sorry I forgot to give the URL.
You can find the SFX pages at
http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/doom/special/index.html
and a ASCII version (not complete) at
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/doom/docs/editing/special10.zip
/Jens
- --
Jens Hykkelbjerg | "Civilisation began with the felling
Aarhus Universitet | of the first tree; and, it will end
Email: hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk | with the felling of the last."
WWW: http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/index.html
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 95 11:58:06 +0100
Subject: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
FROM: the list caretaker; *** A REMINDER ***
The DOOM-editing list is not a list aimed at newcomers to DOOM-editing. Its
purpose is to provide discussions on *advanced* DOOM editing techniques.
Many of its members are not tolerant of repeated "beginners" questions.
Sorry--that's just the way they are ;) There is much that beginners can
learn from the list, however, and we would like the list to be of use to as
many subscribers as possible.
In the past, there has been much moaning about new subscribers asking what
old-hands feel to be "typical newbie questions", usually posted in
ignorance of the fact that the topic has been discussed to death
previously. This leaves newcomers in a quandary: to post or not to post?
Well, help is at hand. The "Beginners Questions Service" can act as a
buffer between you and the higher echelons of the DOOM-editing elite,
conceited lot that they are. It works like this: if you have a question but
don't know whether it's advanced or not, and would like to avoid any
potential embarrassment from asking the question in front of the whole
list, you are encouraged to mail it in the first instance to:
Steve Benner : S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
Your question will either be answered or, if deemed appropriate for the
list, forwarded to it. This service is offered as a potential red-face
saving and list-annoyance abatement service: there is absolutely no
requirement on anyone to make use of this service, but doing so may get you
an answer quicker than sending to the list, and can potentially save you
from finding yourself in the middle of a flaming. But then, as a DOOMster,
you can take a toasting, right?
**NOTE: If your questions are prefixed with the code WQ: in the subject
field (e.g. Subject: WQ: Sprites), they will be processed quicker because
they will be brought to light sooner!**
Remember also that if you want any general info about this list, you should
send mail to the list-server, thus:
To: majordomo@nvg.unit.no
Subject:
Body: info doom-editing
=====================================================================
This reminder will be posted here weekly, with the same subject title.
==
- -Steve Check out: http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/index.html
and "Tricks of the DOOM Gurus" (SAMS: ISBN:0-672-30717-0)
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:10:09 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, JOHC wrote:
> The big room has a normal ceiling texture. The shops should be "real"
> rooms that can be entered.
> But I want to be able to look over the shops - through the big room. When
> standing on higher grounds I would like to "look down" at the shops...
> Is it possible?
Yes, been there, done that. I ripped the idea out of the "special
effects" wad at the www page. Here's how I did it:
I had a large sector of height about 256, and wanted a smaller building
in the centre.
I created the walls of the building using 2-sided linedefs, wrapping them
around so that the walls weren't impossibly thin. I applyed 1-patch
textures to the walls, kept them about 72 height. (The tops of the walls
were 72 off the ground.)
Following the example in the WAD, I made a "cross-hatching" of lines
across the middle of the sector, and applied the STEPTOP texture to them,
offsetting so it appeared as a roof.
Finally, to make a door, I created a platform blocking the entrance, and
created an invisible platform to prevent the player riding it up to the
roof. (Else they'll fall through it.)
So looking down, I had somthing like:
+---------------+
|+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|
|| | | | | | | ||
|+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|
|| | | | | | | ||
|+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|
|| | | | | | | ||
|+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|
|| | | | | | | ||
|+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|< 2-sided, impassable walls.
+------+-+------+
^Door
The door has an extra "invisible platform" sector in the middle, with a
floor equal to that of the outer sector, and a ceiling matching the floor
of the door platform when it is closed.
Obviously, the finer the cross-hatchings, the better the ceiling looks,
but you haave to trade off with 2 sided slowdown.
Of course, another catch will be that monsters can see you through the
walls, and weapons will fire straight through... Perhaps I could put
extra invisible platforms in there...
I haven't explained it all that well, but I can send the PWAWD to anyone
who asks, it's very small, the building being the only thing in there.
Alden Bates.
------------------------------
From: sbrown@neosoft.com (Steve C. Brown)
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 07:01:32 -0500
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
>
> Hi.
>
>
> I'm creating a very big room(big hall) in which I wan't to put several
> smaller rooms (shops) with lower ceilings.
>
> The big room has a normal ceiling texture. The shops should be "real"
> rooms that can be entered.
>
>
> But I want to be able to look over the shops - through the big room. When
> standing on higher grounds I would like to "look down" at the shops...
>
> Is it possible?
>
>
> Has this been discussed in this newsgroup before - do not kill me.
>
>
> Jesper
>
>
I have no problem answering questions like this, but my tolerance for
(please forgive the expression) newbie-notes is quite high. This news-list
is dedicated to advanced topics, and I imagine some others may inform you of
that as well. In fact the topics are usually so advanced, I haven't posted
anything...I just read what the gurus are doing. However, to answer your
question, no it is not possible the way you've described it. The problem
lies with z coordinates. In doom, nothing can ever occupy two different z
coordinates with the same x,y coordinates. If I could enter your shop AND
using idclip stand on it's roof, that would be two z's with the same x,y.
Now, if you made the shops "boxes without lids" you could do that, but I
don't think that's the effect you're after.
If you have any further questions or want more information, feel free to
mail me.
Steve
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 08 Aug 95 14:36:05+0200
Subject: Quake Technical speculations
Okay now every body has seen the Quake pix, so:
How the hell does it work?
Here are my own speculations:
- - Local 3D BSP defining every room (a bit like the
3D BSP used only for the sprites in DESCENT).
- - Connections between the rooms by special tagged
surface, that tell which room is next (and, so what
is the BSP that shall be used for display beyond
that surface). This is already used by Dark Forces,
except they don't have BSP.
Quake is obviously not Cube-based like Descent, but it
MUST have an accelerator structure to render
structures. Those structures would have the DF engine
run real slow :)
Note that no-one has seen Quake actually running,
and informed people told me it didn't run in fact :)
Olivier Montanuy
(author of DeuTex/WinTex, and of flames on r.g.d.e)
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 16:20:16 +0200
Subject: Re: A visiplane overflow solution
> DTeeter@AOL.COM wrote
>When I set all of the sectors inside of the building to the same ceiling
>texture, the visiplane overflow problem went away.
> Robert Forsman wrote
>checkerboard of two flats, but 64 polygons and you'd strain or break things,
I tried. 64+1, you'll get HOM (too many linedefs), but no visplane
crash. Same with a 16x8+2 tile room - major HOM, no visplane crash
(wonder if there *is* any way to get a visplane crash w/o any hidden HOM).
>but if you made them all the same texture it might be merging polygons.
How?
>I don't think the texture issue has been brought up before.
I agree. Well done, Dan!
The last time we had our regular "visplane" thread, I started with false
premise on how DOOM renders floors/ceilings. In the meantime, I learned
that rendering floors/ceilings front-to-back per lineseg is possible... now
anything follows from false assumptions :-(.
Yet I can't believe that DOOM merges floor/ceiling polygons in a way.
Guessing, I'd say DOOM does per column rendering, using per column
clipping horizons, and does fill gaps between wall slices to render
floors/ceilings as horizontal slices (different possibilities). DOOM
can't do floors as convex subsectors (subsectors aren't closed,
linesegs are missing). It might do floors as non-convex sectors
back-to-front, yet I can't believe it does. I'd say it fills gaps per
lineseg (leftmost to rightmost column, taking top/bottom horizons into
account for each column). In this case floors would be split again - even
more polygons.
Does this depend on the number of different flats somehow, w/o depending
on the number of linedefs?
Even more useless speculation ahead ...
B.
P.S.: quoting "The Hunting of the Quack" to Mr. John Romero
"your goof is complete
if only we asked you thrice"
:-).
------------------------------
From: dnabiesz@maple.net (Rob Nabieszko)
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 10:53:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Demos
>On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Jon Skeels wrote:
>
>> I was wondering what I might do to get demos into my wads? I have been
>> pondering the situation for a while... and i'm not sure how to do it. I
>> don't want to make a batch file that does it... but if i must... i will. Is
>> there anyway possible to do this? Please let me know... thanx --Jon Skeels
>
>record the.LMP file and from there, it depends on what editor you are using.
>I reccommend NWT, or DEUTEX (if you are one of those compiler-lovers)
>With NWT, just name the resource DEMO1 (or DEMO2, DEMO3) and insert the
>LMP file as a RAW file.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>->Ryan Drake<- "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
>[eMAiL] stiletto@psu.edu But I have promises to keep.
>[URL] --to be announced-- And miles to go before I sleep."
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Do you know where to find the latest version of Deutex? I've ben searching around for it, but have been unsuccessful. If you could supply me with a Web/FTP site, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
\ /
\/ orticon
Dennis Nabieszko
------------------------------
From: Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 15:54:24 BST
Subject: Re: A visiplane overflow solution
B. wrote:
>
> > DTeeter@AOL.COM wrote
> >When I set all of the sectors inside of the building to the same ceiling
> >texture, the visiplane overflow problem went away.
>
> Yet I can't believe that DOOM merges floor/ceiling polygons in a way.
>
This might explain an occurrence I've observed in, for example, E1M2.
Look at the flashing area just opposite the first secret room. When the
light level changes, the floor texture shifts left and then right...
Steve.
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 10:28:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Quake Technical speculations
At 02:36 PM 8/8/95, doom-editing@nvg.unit.no wrote:
>Okay now every body has seen the Quake pix, so:
> How the hell does it work?
>
>Here are my own speculations:
>
>- Local 3D BSP defining every room (a bit like the
> 3D BSP used only for the sprites in DESCENT).
>
>- Connections between the rooms by special tagged
> surface, that tell which room is next (and, so what
> is the BSP that shall be used for display beyond
> that surface). This is already used by Dark Forces,
> except they don't have BSP.
After discussions with ddt (which werent in much detail due
to a flood of newbie questions) he has confirmed an optimised
3D BSP structure; level editing is different. ddt said that the
BSP takes a while to calculate -- best run over night as he put it.
Level editing he said was done in a poly hedron way; you place
walls. Lighting is automatically calculated at run time (meaning if
you run across a window a shodow is cast along the floor). He has also
said that there are all kinds of automatic door types. They swing,
rise, fall, slide, etc...
I had an idea which I think is what they are doing; rather than
using an editor to place vertices and linedefs, etc... in a 3D world,
why not create areas where you *couldn't* walk. ie if lighting is
automatic, then the entire world can be a large sphere. The level
editor can place the void areas and assign textures to them.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: nawrot@cyconx.cyconx.com (Wolf)
Date: 8 Aug 1995 11:52:32 EST
Subject: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
Will anyone out there take a request for making a paintball WAD with
total conversion?
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 16:55:42 +0200
Subject: REMINDER: Quake-stuff
- -------------------------------------------------------
SOON-TO-BE WEEKLY REMINDER (sigh)
- -------------------------------------------------------
Quoting the info to all:
>>>>> what ***doesn't*** DOOM-editing cover? <<<<<<
DOOM-editing does **not** cover any of the following:
... rumors about DOOM/Quake/id, ...
and anything else that's not related to DOOM
editing (hence the name :)
I admire the lighting technique, too, but PLEASE
keep any Quake-screenshot related stuff off this
list.
There's a moderated mailing list dedicated to Quake
topics. It's (guess :-) a majordomo list, too. It's
maintained by Joost Schuur. Send mail to
majordomo@doomgate.cs.buffalo.edu, no subject:, body
is (you should know by now :)
subscribe quake
and please keep Quake stuff off doom-editing. We'll
see if there will be a separate quake-editing list in 1996,
but right now it's still advanced doom-editing.
Thanks.
B.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 13:42:15 EDT
Subject: Re: A visiplane overflow solution
Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk> ,in message <199508081454.13452@club.eng.cam.ac
.uk>, wrote:
> B. wrote:
> >
> > > DTeeter@AOL.COM wrote
> > >When I set all of the sectors inside of the building to the same ceiling
> > >texture, the visiplane overflow problem went away.
> >
> > Yet I can't believe that DOOM merges floor/ceiling polygons in a way.
> >
> This might explain an occurrence I've observed in, for example, E1M2.
> Look at the flashing area just opposite the first secret room. When the
> light level changes, the floor texture shifts left and then right...
Wow, I've seen this in another wad (one of my own creation). It never
occurred to me that polygon merging might be the cause.
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun80.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 08 Aug 95 20:23:45+0200
Subject: DeuTex
>Do you know where to find the latest version of
>Deutex? I've ben searching around for it, but have
>been unsuccessful.
>Dennis Nabieszko
Well, here are some facts:
1/ The DOOM editing list isn't done for that kind of
question.
2/ Everybody knows where to get DeuTex or NWT :)
ftp.cdrom.com
pub/doom/utils/graphics_edit/deutex/deutex36.zip
pub/doom/utils/graphics_edit/nwt103.zip
3/ DeuTex is *completely* outdated. WinTex 3.5 will
kill it, if NWT 1.4 doesn't do the job.
I still compile DeuTex because it's the only one
that works on OS2, Unix and Linux.
And also because it's also by far the most reliable
of all that kind of tools :)
4/ Quake Quake Quake, wanna more Quake, no more DOOM.
------------------------------
From: Ryan Drake <nccs1@farside.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 14:30:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Demos
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Rob Nabieszko wrote:
> Do you know where to find the latest version of Deutex? I've ben searching around for it, but have been unsuccessful. If you could supply me with a Web/FTP site, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
I usually find all my doom-editing stuff on ftp.cdrom.com
try /pub/doom/utils/
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ->Ryan Drake<- "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
[eMAiL] stiletto@psu.edu But I have promises to keep.
[URL] --to be announced-- And miles to go before I sleep."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Ryan Drake <nccs1@farside.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 15:03:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
On 8 Aug 1995, Wolf wrote:
> Will anyone out there take a request for making a paintball WAD with
> total conversion?
That one's being worked on. Check into rec.sport.paintball for updates
every once in awhile. Its getting real cool, now...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ->Ryan Drake<- "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
[eMAiL] stiletto@psu.edu But I have promises to keep.
[URL] --to be announced-- And miles to go before I sleep."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Kevin Lee Willis <klwillis@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 13:39:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: WAD Editors
Would anyone out there know where I can find a DOOM WAD editor
- - (i.e. DEU, Dmapedit, Doomed, DoomCad...ect.)?
What FTP sites, and where within them, can I find these editors?
I love HERETIC, and I was wondering which WAD editors I can use with it.
Thanks for your assistance. :) :)
------------------------------
From: Kevin Lee Willis <klwillis@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 13:44:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: ROTT Mailing List?
> >
> > Hello, I've just joined the GAMES-L mailing list and I'm looking for any
> > information on the "HOT" new arcade game ROTT. Do you know where I can
> > find information on this game (possibly a mailing list?)
>
> Isn't ROTT an Apogee game ? Then you might try to find Apogee's WWW-
> site or so. I think there is no mailing list (yet) about this game.
> Usually there are no mailing lists for single games, except for the really
> very popular ones. Post to the list and ask if anyone knows more about
> ROTT.
>
Does anyone knwo Apogee's WWW-site?
------------------------------
From: WmDragon@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 18:22:09 -0400
Subject: Re: WAD Editors
Goto the FTP Site at CDROM.COM
ftp://cdrom.com/pub/heretic/utils/editors
------------------------------
From: Andrew Ariens <ariens@sierra.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 15:43:30 -0700
Subject: Re: ROTT Mailing List?
At 01:44 PM 8/8/95 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>> >
>> > Hello, I've just joined the GAMES-L mailing list and I'm looking for any
>> > information on the "HOT" new arcade game ROTT. Do you know where I can
>> > find information on this game (possibly a mailing list?)
>>
>> Isn't ROTT an Apogee game ? Then you might try to find Apogee's WWW-
>> site or so. I think there is no mailing list (yet) about this game.
>> Usually there are no mailing lists for single games, except for the really
>> very popular ones. Post to the list and ask if anyone knows more about
>> ROTT.
>>
>
>Does anyone knwo Apogee's WWW-site?
>
http://www.swcbbs.com/apogee/apogee.htm
Andrew Ariens
<ariens@sierra.net>
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #372
**********************************
