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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 373
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #373
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 9 August 1995 Volume 01 : Number 373
Re: A big room problem.
Re: A big room problem.
Re: A big room problem.
Site Location for ROTT
Re: A big room problem.
Re: REMINDER: Quake-stuff
Re: A big room problem.
Re: Site Location for ROTT
Re: Site Location for ROTT
Re: REMINDER: Quake-stuff
Re: A big room problem.
Re: A visiplane overflow solution
Re: A big room problem.
Re: A big room problem.
Re: REMINDER: Quake-stuff
Re: A big room problem.
Re: REMINDER: Quake-stuff
Re: A big room problem.
Re: Quake Technical speculations
Re: WAD Editors
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pandion-Knight <s337239@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 12:31:37 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Alden Bates wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, JOHC wrote:
>
> > The big room has a normal ceiling texture. The shops should be "real"
> > rooms that can be entered.
> > But I want to be able to look over the shops - through the big room. When
> > standing on higher grounds I would like to "look down" at the shops...
> > Is it possible?
>
> Yes, been there, done that. I ripped the idea out of the "special
> effects" wad at the www page. Here's how I did it:
>
> I had a large sector of height about 256, and wanted a smaller building
> in the centre.
> I created the walls of the building using 2-sided linedefs, wrapping them
> around so that the walls weren't impossibly thin. I applyed 1-patch
> textures to the walls, kept them about 72 height. (The tops of the walls
> were 72 off the ground.)
>
> Following the example in the WAD, I made a "cross-hatching" of lines
> across the middle of the sector, and applied the STEPTOP texture to them,
> offsetting so it appeared as a roof.
>
> Finally, to make a door, I created a platform blocking the entrance, and
> created an invisible platform to prevent the player riding it up to the
> roof. (Else they'll fall through it.)
>
> So looking down, I had somthing like:
> +---------------+
> |+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|
> || | | | | | | ||
> |+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|
> || | | | | | | ||
> |+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|
> || | | | | | | ||
> |+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|
> || | | | | | | ||
> |+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+|< 2-sided, impassable walls.
> +------+-+------+
> ^Door
>
> The door has an extra "invisible platform" sector in the middle, with a
> floor equal to that of the outer sector, and a ceiling matching the floor
> of the door platform when it is closed.
>
> Obviously, the finer the cross-hatchings, the better the ceiling looks,
> but you haave to trade off with 2 sided slowdown.
>
> Of course, another catch will be that monsters can see you through the
> walls, and weapons will fire straight through... Perhaps I could put
> extra invisible platforms in there...
>
> I haven't explained it all that well, but I can send the PWAWD to anyone
> who asks, it's very small, the building being the only thing in there.
>
> Alden Bates.
>
send it here mate i'd love to see it :)
______________________________________________________________________________
Christoher Voutsis
Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
IRC: Pandion (after 9pm most nights :)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Herschel Giansiracusa <chronomancer@sfi.survivor.org>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 18:23:12 -0500
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
How about using dehacked to take out the teleport graphics and sound,
and then having a teleporter in front of the shops... that would allow you
to look over the shops, as well as go in them. It's a simplistic, but
easy answer...
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, JOHC wrote:
> I'm creating a very big room(big hall) in which I wan't to put several
> smaller rooms (shops) with lower ceilings.
>
> The big room has a normal ceiling texture. The shops should be "real"
> rooms that can be entered.
>
> But I want to be able to look over the shops - through the big room. When
> standing on higher grounds I would like to "look down" at the shops...
>
> Is it possible?
------------------------------
From: jeffross@teleport.com (Jeff Ross)
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 19:48:02 -0700
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
However, to answer your
question, no it is not possible the way you've described it. The problem
lies with z coordinates. In doom, nothing can ever occupy two different z
coordinates with the same x,y coordinates. If I could enter your shop AND
using idclip stand on it's roof, that would be two z's with the same x,y.
Now, if you made the shops "boxes without lids" you could do that, but I
don't think that's the effect you're after.
If you have any further questions or want more information, feel free to
mail me.
Steve
Okay, Doom isn't true 3d(e.g. no rooms on top of rooms, no players in top of
each other, etc.). But how come I can jump OVER health packs without
picking them up? This shouldn't have to do with the IMPASSIBLE flag of the
item. By jumping over the item I am occupying the same Z space, and
therefore should have picked it up.
Anyone???
- -Jeff Ross
jeffross@teleport.com
Get blowyour.wad, the excellent deathmatch compilation at:
http://www.teleport.com/~jeffross
------------------------------
From: Kevin Lee Willis <klwillis@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 20:37:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Site Location for ROTT
Does anyone out there know the Site location for the "HOT" game ROTT?
I think its made by Apogee Software.
Thanks for your assistance. :) :)
------------------------------
From: jeffross@teleport.com (Jeff Ross)
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 19:48:05 -0700
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
>I have no problem answering questions like this, but my tolerance for
>(please forgive the expression) newbie-notes is quite high. This news-list
>is dedicated to advanced topics, and I imagine some others may inform you of
>that as well. In fact the topics are usually so advanced, I haven't posted
>anything...I just read what the gurus are doing. However, to answer your
>question, no it is not possible the way you've described it. The problem
>lies with z coordinates. In doom, nothing can ever occupy two different z
>coordinates with the same x,y coordinates. If I could enter your shop AND
>using idclip stand on it's roof, that would be two z's with the same x,y.
>Now, if you made the shops "boxes without lids" you could do that, but I
>don't think that's the effect you're after.
>
>If you have any further questions or want more information, feel free to
>mail me.
>
>Steve
>
Okay, Doom isn't true 3d(e.g. no rooms on top of rooms, no players in top of
each other, etc.). But how come I can jump OVER health packs without
picking them up? This shouldn't have to do with the IMPASSIBLE flag of the
item. By jumping over the item I am occupying the same Z space, and
therefore should have picked it up.
Anyone???
- -Jeff Ross
jeffross@teleport.com
Get blowyour.wad, the excellent deathmatch compilation at:
http://www.teleport.com/~jeffross
------------------------------
From: joost schuur <joost.schuur@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 05:10:33 +0200 (MESZ)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: Quake-stuff
<j>
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Bernd Kreimeier wrote:
> There's a moderated mailing list dedicated to Quake
> topics. It's (guess :-) a majordomo list, too. It's
> maintained by Joost Schuur. Send mail to
> majordomo@doomgate.cs.buffalo.edu, no subject:, body
> is (you should know by now :)
actually, no there isnt. i purged the list and even if it still looks
like it's there, i have no intention of using it right now to distribute
qt.
> and please keep Quake stuff off doom-editing. We'll
> see if there will be a separate quake-editing list in 1996,
> but right now it's still advanced doom-editing.
i think we should have the list voice their opinions on this. doom is
rather old and it seems a lot of the editing concepts have been discussed
over and over. this list has gotten rather quiet and i wouldnt totally
disaprove occasional talk about quake, as long as we stress this is still
primarily a doom-editing list. but then again i no longer run this list.
</j>
_ ___ ___
=====| |/ _ \/ __|===========================================================
| | (_) \__ \ joost.schuur@student.uni-tuebingen.de lotlhwI on IRC
_/ |\___/|___/ http://home.pages.de/~jschuur/ go away
===|__/================================================nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'=
------------------------------
From: jeffross@teleport.com (Jeff Ross)
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 19:47:59 -0700
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
>I have no problem answering questions like this, but my tolerance for
>(please forgive the expression) newbie-notes is quite high. This news-list
>is dedicated to advanced topics, and I imagine some others may inform you of
>that as well. In fact the topics are usually so advanced, I haven't posted
>anything...I just read what the gurus are doing. However, to answer your
>question, no it is not possible the way you've described it. The problem
>lies with z coordinates. In doom, nothing can ever occupy two different z
>coordinates with the same x,y coordinates. If I could enter your shop AND
>using idclip stand on it's roof, that would be two z's with the same x,y.
>Now, if you made the shops "boxes without lids" you could do that, but I
>don't think that's the effect you're after.
>
>If you have any further questions or want more information, feel free to
>mail me.
>
>Steve
>
Okay, Doom isn't true 3d(e.g. no rooms over rooms, player's can't jump over
other players, etc.). It's my understanding then that the engine can't tell
the z coords of a player or object, and uses blockmap to establish
impassible heights, etc.
BUT, how come I can jump over items without the IMPASSIBLE flag set? I can
jump over health packs or weapons, but not over barrels because they're an
impassible item. So that Z space is impassible. By the same token, when I
jump over a health pack, that Z space is crossed, and therefore I should
have picked it up but I didn't. Does this tell me that Doom is determining
my height?
Anyone???
- -Jeff Ross
jeffross@teleport.com
Get blowyour.wad, the excellent deathmatch compilation at:
http://www.teleport.com/~jeffross
------------------------------
From: Andrew Ariens <ariens@sierra.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 21:58:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Site Location for ROTT
At 08:37 PM 8/8/95 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anyone out there know the Site location for the "HOT" game ROTT?
>
>I think its made by Apogee Software.
>
>Thanks for your assistance. :) :)
>
http://www.swcbbs.com/
Andrew Ariens
<ariens@sierra.net>
------------------------------
From: Andrew Ariens <ariens@sierra.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 22:02:16 -0700
Subject: Re: Site Location for ROTT
>At 08:37 PM 8/8/95 -0700, you wrote:
>>Does anyone out there know the Site location for the "HOT" game ROTT?
>>
>>I think its made by Apogee Software.
>>
>>Thanks for your assistance. :) :)
>>
>
>http://www.swcbbs.com/
Sorry, this was incomplete. The full address is:
http://www.swcbbs.com/apogee/rott.htm
You don't have to be a member of Software Creations to access this site.
Andrew Ariens
<ariens@sierra.net>
------------------------------
From: Murray Chapman <muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:24:28 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: Quake-stuff
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, joost schuur wrote:
> i think we should have the list voice their opinions on this. doom is
> rather old and it seems a lot of the editing concepts have been discussed
> over and over. this list has gotten rather quiet and i wouldnt totally
> disaprove occasional talk about quake.
Agreed. It would make a change from the AOL-infested alt.games.quake.
Murray
- -- Murray Chapman Zheenl Punczna --
- -- muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au zhmmyr@pf.hd.bm.nh --
- -- University of Queensland Havirefvgl bs Dhrrafynaq --
- -- Brisbane, Australia Oevfonar, Nhfgenyvn --
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 23:11:56 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Jeff Ross wrote:
> Okay, Doom isn't true 3d(e.g. no rooms on top of rooms, no players in top of
> each other, etc.). But how come I can jump OVER health packs without
> picking them up? This shouldn't have to do with the IMPASSIBLE flag of the
> item. By jumping over the item I am occupying the same Z space, and
> therefore should have picked it up.
>
> Anyone???
That's different. Height checking is always carried out for "gettable
items" and for projectile hits. If the item/projectile is not in the
right Z co-ordinate, nothing happens.
They are also used in determining creature impacts with corridors and
crushing ceilings, but I guess you already knew that.
The only things that Z values are ignored for are collisions between
obticals, and area effect damage such as claws/rocket explosions. Anyone
think of any other things height is ignored for?
Alden Bates. (Oh yeah, Lost Soul attacks.)
------------------------------
From: Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 1995 14:19:12 BST
Subject: Re: A visiplane overflow solution
Robert Forsman wrote:
>
> Steve McCrea wrote:
> > Look at the flashing area just opposite the first secret room. When the
> > light level changes, the floor texture shifts left and then right...
>
> Wow, I've seen this in another wad (one of my own creation). It never
> occurred to me that polygon merging might be the cause.
>
Well, it's only a guess. I have no idea if it's right or not.
Steve.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 1995 09:45:59 EDT
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
jeffross@teleport.com (Jeff Ross) ,in message <199508090257.TAA05760@desiree.te
leport.com>, wrote:
> BUT, how come I can jump over items without the IMPASSIBLE flag set? I can
> jump over health packs or weapons, but not over barrels because they're an
> impassible item. So that Z space is impassible. By the same token, when I
> jump over a health pack, that Z space is crossed, and therefore I should
> have picked it up but I didn't. Does this tell me that Doom is determining
> my height?
The code refuses to let you grab the item unless you are within the proper
Z delta.
------------------------------
From: Ryan Drake <nccs1@farside.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 09:36:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Alden Bates wrote:
> The only things that Z values are ignored for are collisions between
> obticals, and area effect damage such as claws/rocket explosions. Anyone
> think of any other things height is ignored for?
Switches. One thing i can remember in particular. DOOM 2 map 1... there
is a room with four platforms. two of the platforms haf switches on
them. if you push one switch, it lowers the platforms so you <supposedly>
cannot push the other one cause the platform is the same height as the
floor. You can pus it, however. just go near where the thing disappeared
under the floor and push your USE key...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ->Ryan Drake<- "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
[eMAiL] stiletto@psu.edu But I have promises to keep.
[URL] --to be announced-- And miles to go before I sleep."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 1995 10:16:51 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: Quake-stuff
joost schuur <joost.schuur@student.uni-tuebingen.de> ,in message <Pine.HPP.3.91
.950809050748.14474C-100000@hp11.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>, wrote:
> i think we should have the list voice their opinions on this. doom is
> rather old and it seems a lot of the editing concepts have been discussed
> over and over. this list has gotten rather quiet and i wouldnt totally
> disaprove occasional talk about quake, as long as we stress this is still
> primarily a doom-editing list. but then again i no longer run this list.
There's enough idle speculation about how DOOM works, and we have the game
on our machines. Just imagine what sort of bullshit speculation would flood
my mailbox if we allowed quake discussions.
------------------------------
From: jeffross@teleport.com (Jeff Ross)
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 1995 07:18:19 -0700
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
>
>That's different. Height checking is always carried out for "gettable
>items" and for projectile hits. If the item/projectile is not in the
>right Z co-ordinate, nothing happens.
>
>They are also used in determining creature impacts with corridors and
>crushing ceilings, but I guess you already knew that.
>
>The only things that Z values are ignored for are collisions between
>obticals, and area effect damage such as claws/rocket explosions. Anyone
>think of any other things height is ignored for?
>
>Alden Bates. (Oh yeah, Lost Soul attacks.)
>
Okay, I guess I just wrote that off to blockmap action. Still, this is
demonstrating the ability of the engine to determine multiple z positions.
------------------------------
From: Kurt <crawley@coscc.cc.tn.us>
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 1995 09:07:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: Quake-stuff
On the note about the Quake, I agree, I get so much crap from the
alt.games.quake, about what it should be this, that... Blablabla. I would
like a little bit of technical talk instead of what it should be, and if
what it should be is discussed, we should try to explain it in a
technical way.
Kevin
/#----------------------------------------------------------------#\
| Kevin Crawley Sysop: The Lost World |
| - Former Student Worker - (615)540-8699 (DOWN) |
| COE: KC-Programming Internet Email: crawley@coscc.cc.tn.us |
| Tutoring - Windows, DOS Doom ][ Master |
| (615)380-0493 |
| |
| Mail Address: 1159 Roy Sellers Road |
| Columbia, TN 38401 |
| |
\#----------------------------------------------------------------#/
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, joost schuur wrote:
>
> <j>
>
> On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Bernd Kreimeier wrote:
>
> > There's a moderated mailing list dedicated to Quake
> > topics. It's (guess :-) a majordomo list, too. It's
> > maintained by Joost Schuur. Send mail to
> > majordomo@doomgate.cs.buffalo.edu, no subject:, body
> > is (you should know by now :)
>
>
> actually, no there isnt. i purged the list and even if it still looks
> like it's there, i have no intention of using it right now to distribute
> qt.
>
> > and please keep Quake stuff off doom-editing. We'll
> > see if there will be a separate quake-editing list in 1996,
> > but right now it's still advanced doom-editing.
>
> i think we should have the list voice their opinions on this. doom is
> rather old and it seems a lot of the editing concepts have been discussed
> over and over. this list has gotten rather quiet and i wouldnt totally
> disaprove occasional talk about quake, as long as we stress this is still
> primarily a doom-editing list. but then again i no longer run this list.
>
> </j>
> _ ___ ___
> =====| |/ _ \/ __|===========================================================
> | | (_) \__ \ joost.schuur@student.uni-tuebingen.de lotlhwI on IRC
> _/ |\___/|___/ http://home.pages.de/~jschuur/ go away
> ===|__/================================================nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'=
>
>
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 16:43:19 +0100
Subject: Re: A big room problem.
At 9:36 am 9/8/95, Ryan Drake wrote:
>> Anyone
>> think of any other things height is ignored for?
>
>Switches. One thing i can remember in particular. DOOM 2 map 1... there
>is a room with four platforms. two of the platforms haf switches on
>them. if you push one switch, it lowers the platforms so you <supposedly>
>cannot push the other one cause the platform is the same height as the
>floor. You can pus it, however. just go near where the thing disappeared
>under the floor and push your USE key...
>
Correct: switches always work provided you're positioned just to the right
of the active line. These arrangements of switches that vanish into the
floor are only of use for hiding switches, not for disabling them.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: dnabiesz@maple.net (Rob Nabieszko)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:07:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Quake Technical speculations
>Okay now every body has seen the Quake pix, so:
> How the hell does it work?
>
>Here are my own speculations:
>
>- Local 3D BSP defining every room (a bit like the
> 3D BSP used only for the sprites in DESCENT).
>
>- Connections between the rooms by special tagged
> surface, that tell which room is next (and, so what
> is the BSP that shall be used for display beyond
> that surface). This is already used by Dark Forces,
> except they don't have BSP.
>
>Quake is obviously not Cube-based like Descent, but it
>MUST have an accelerator structure to render
>structures. Those structures would have the DF engine
>run real slow :)
>
>Note that no-one has seen Quake actually running,
>and informed people told me it didn't run in fact :)
>
> Olivier Montanuy
>(author of DeuTex/WinTex, and of flames on r.g.d.e)
>
>
Gr8 info. However, I have heard a rumour that it is going to need a Pentium-90 MINIMUM. Can you or anyone else confirm this?
Dennis Nabieszko
------------------------------
From: dnabiesz@maple.net (Rob Nabieszko)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:13:03 -0400
Subject: Re: WAD Editors
>
>Would anyone out there know where I can find a DOOM WAD editor
>- (i.e. DEU, Dmapedit, Doomed, DoomCad...ect.)?
>What FTP sites, and where within them, can I find these editors?
>
>I love HERETIC, and I was wondering which WAD editors I can use with it.
>
>Thanks for your assistance. :) :)
>
I got one on hand. Do you want me to convert it to binary and send it via a message?
Dennis Nabieszko
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #373
**********************************
