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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 380
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #380
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Tuesday, 15 August 1995 Volume 01 : Number 380
Re: Revenant's missiles
Re: New DHE with code pointers
More Visiplane error musings
Re: DHE comments
me+me+me=?!
Re: More Visiplane error musings
Re: New DHE with code pointers
Re: me+me+me=?!
Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
Ang-me+me+me=?!
UDS Corrections
Re: me+me+me=?!
Re: me+me+me=?!
Re: More Visiplane error musings
Re: me+me+me=?!
Re: wolf3d sources
Re: Reject builder
Re: New DHE with code pointers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 21:23:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Revenant's missiles
On Sat, 12 Aug 1995 LummoxJR@AOL.COM wrote:
> I *believe* code pointers have something to do with what makes a missile home
> in on someone, though I can't say for sure. Believe it or not, I've never
> played Doom II.
> Greg Lewis's DeHackEd will edit frames and stuff, and soon he will release
> DHE 2.5, which will include code pointer support. So maybe you can get some
> things to act like a missle by editing the EXE.
I don't believe this is correct. Each monster has one specific target
at any one time, and this is what the missiles home in one. There must
be a variable for each monster in Doom that contains "CurrentTarget".
The player has no such information, and thus there is absolutely no way
for the missile to know what to home in on. I even asked one of the Id
guys about this a year ago and they said something to the effect of "But
you can't lead a homer in deathmatch!". :)
Greg
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 21:07:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: New DHE with code pointers
On Sun, 13 Aug 1995 LummoxJR@AOL.COM wrote:
> I am currently beta testing DHE 2.5 (3.0?) for Greg, and so far it does
> indeed work well. There is a new screen specifically for editing code
> pointers, though the old frame data code pointers are still useless (just
> don't change them from 0 to nonzero or vice-versa).
> Apparently DHE 2.5 (3.0?) may also support the amount of increase received by
> grabbing health/armor bonuses.
Actually, it won't be health received from bonuses such as that. It
will be the Player's initial health and armor amounts, and the max health
and armor amounts that the player can get. None of that is concrete yet
either, I'm still waiting for information. It will still NOT be possible
to change the ammo the weapons use, the damage done by non-projetile
weapons, rocket damage radius, health given by health bonuses, etc.
> Just don't ask me for a copy of the beta. Ask Greg.
Don't ask me for a beta copy either. I will not give them out. The
more you bug me, the longer it takes for the new version. (As it is,
the rest of the night is devoted to email. Sigh.)
Greg
------------------------------
From: DTeeter@AOL.COM
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 22:59:56 -0400
Subject: More Visiplane error musings
Hey,
> I have a test WAD that I set up with an area that causes
>the visplane error--I changed one ceiling texture and the crashes went away.
>I propose that a "visplane" is a displayed distinct floor or ceiling area
>and that there can be no more than 128 distinct visplanes in view.
Actually,
>perhaps 127 is the limit since there are two visplane errors: "no more
>visplanes" (for 128 visplanes) and "visplane overflow (###)" (I have never
>seen ### less than 129).
> What I do not understand is why the error is not consistent.
>Sometimes you can sweep through an area and not get the error.
Wow, great work on all of the info above!
I would like to add a couple of other things I noticed.
When I first built this room where the visiplane error occurred, all of the
ceiling textures were the same, but the ceiling heights were not the same.
Looking up, it was difficult to tell that the ceiling heights were any
different (only a little flat mis-alignment was visible) the ceiling looked
pretty continuous. I started having visiplane problems at that point, but
they went away when I set all of the ceiling heights the same.
( My earlier posting detailed the visiplanes error I experienced when the
ceiling was composed of two different flat textures))
Interestingly enough, I just noticed that the daughter sectors in this room
are still set at brightness 255 and the "mother sector" is set at 235, but I
can see no difference in brightness when I look up.
Could the engine be automatically ignoring the difference in brightness level
in favor of improved performance (continuous tiling)?
By the way, I tried to make the wad crash by leaving the ceiling flat
textures the same, but drastically changing the light levels. It didn't
crash. -Pretty strange huh?
Another thing I have noticed about visiplane errors are that they are more
likely to occur when turning your point of view rapidly (shift plus arrow for
keyboard users) and when teleporting into a high visiplane situation.
Now I can see why it was first thought that visiplane errors were related to
2-sided line defs, those linedefs are always present when you are dealing
with large numbers of differently textured (or heights of) flats!
A couple of rules of thumb I would propose from all of this:
1. In a large room, take care to set all of the ceiling heights the same, you
may not be able to notice mistakes. These differently leveled sectors are
extra flats in the visiplane count!
2. If you get visiplane errors and you've already tried the idea above,
realize that you are going to have to change some floor or ceiling flats
either in level or in texture so that they can "meld" into the rest of the
floor or ceiling.
Below is a proposed rule that I am unsure of (maybe some one will test it
out!)
Maybe...If you have an outdoor area (all ceiling flats set to sky), you
should set all of the sectors to the same ceiling height, this may prevent
visiplane errors and improve engine performance.
That's all of the ideas I can think of for now.
Later on,
Dan Teeter
P.S. If you want to check out the Heretic wad I was working on when I noticed
this visiplane stuff, its at ftp.cdrom.com in the idgames/newstuff directory.
It's called Grok-It.wad. The mother sector I've been talking about is sector
#8 in E2M4 of Grok-It.wad
------------------------------
From: cerberus@pinc.com (Jon bishop)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 21:39:50 -0700
Subject: Re: DHE comments
>Where can I find out how to use Dehacked?
>
>
hmmm...that's a hard one....maybe the *docs*!.....
RTFM
- -= Cerberus =-
------------------------------
From: spockto@netdepot.com (Spock To)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 02:08:55 -0400
Subject: me+me+me=?!
ok folks, i've fooled around a bit with multiple player one starts and
here's a few stats for ya.
1 The last player one start that you add to the wad will be the one you
start from.
2 If your alter egos get hurt, you suffer the accumulated damage, for
example, if there are three of you and one gets hit for 10% and the other
gets hit for 20% you will lose 30%. Another thing is that if you put on god
mode you will still suffer the effects of previous damage, for example if
the other guys take 30% damage and you put god mode on, you will still be
at 70% even though your stats show 100%, if you take god mode off, your
stats remain at 100% but you will die with 30% health left.
3 There is a way for you to become undead. The only way I could find was to
fire a bfg close to several other yous, if you do it right, you will be a
zero health and wandering around invulnerable, without a weapon. you will
still be able to activate things and pick up things but if you pick up a
stimpack you will be back at 10% (or whatever)
4 the monsters treat the other yous as unmovable things, they can be moved
though, if they take a hit. You can hide behind several of yourself and the
critters will act as if you are behind a wall.
If anybody finds out anything ive missed, I would appreciate it if you would
let me know by email. Im planning on creating a wad where at the start you
get access to a bfg and have to kill a long distance cyberdemon before
continuing, there will be other hidden player ones near the bfg path who
will take damage leaving you weaponless and invulnerable for the remainder
of the level (unless you happen to find the stash)If anyone has additional
ideas for this level I would appreciate it if you let me know by email. I
also think i will make a deathmatch level with several extra players hidden
in strategic locations, so you could be happily fragging along and all of a
sudden you take damage. So you will have the multiple task of protecting
yourself and of protecting your other bodies. Please could someone try this
and tell me how the respawning works with kills to the normal player and to
the extras? if anybody could do this, i would appreciate it if, etc.etc.
Geek Code:
GO dgq H+(---) s+. !g !p au- a21 w+ v>++ c+1/2 Udon't ask N++ W+>++ M--
po---@ Y+1/2 t+++ 5++ R tv+ b+++ D++ B-- e+>++ U++(*) h+ f? n-@ y+
------------------------------
From: thldrmn@neosoft.com (Ty Halderman)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 03:01:01 -0500
Subject: Re: More Visiplane error musings
>Now I can see why it was first thought that visiplane errors were related to
>2-sided line defs, those linedefs are always present when you are dealing
>with large numbers of differently textured (or heights of) flats!
>
>A couple of rules of thumb I would propose from all of this:
>
>1. In a large room, take care to set all of the ceiling heights the same, you
>may not be able to notice mistakes. These differently leveled sectors are
>extra flats in the visiplane count!
I did have one room with several walls at floor level with a shoot-trigger
linedef so that if you shot at someone on the other end the walls would come
up to block the areas from then on (Cooperative DM, you might say). Anyway,
there were 20 such areas (19 walls) and no problem until they began to rise,
then Visplane crash. At the time I attributed that to the increased number
of sides visible on the columns that were rising, but (based on current
discussions) maybe it was just the addition of 19 flats now at a different
height.
=-Ty
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 21:31:13 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: New DHE with code pointers
On Sun, 13 Aug 1995, Erwen L. Tang wrote:
> Anything on the other impossibilities? Such as explosion
> radius?
What about adding new stuff? Like addinig in new things and new sound
names to supplament the old ones. I want to have Heretic-like sound objects.
Alden Bates.
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 21:39:58 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: me+me+me=?!
On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Spock To wrote:
> 3 There is a way for you to become undead. The only way I could find was to
> fire a bfg close to several other yous,
You don't need a BFG, just shoot one of the clones, then another of them.
Try not to kill them though, I know it's hard. :-)
Alden Bates.
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:35:42 +0100
Subject: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
FROM: the list caretaker; *** A REMINDER ***
The DOOM-editing list is not a list aimed at newcomers to DOOM-editing. Its
purpose is to provide discussions on *advanced* DOOM editing techniques.
Many of its members are not tolerant of repeated "beginners" questions.
Sorry--that's just the way they are ;) There is much that beginners can
learn from the list, however, and we would like the list to be of use to as
many subscribers as possible.
In the past, there has been much moaning about new subscribers asking what
old-hands feel to be "typical newbie questions", usually posted in
ignorance of the fact that the topic has been discussed to death
previously. This leaves newcomers in a quandary: to post or not to post?
Well, help is at hand. The "Beginners Questions Service" can act as a
buffer between you and the higher echelons of the DOOM-editing elite,
conceited lot that they are. It works like this: if you have a question but
don't know whether it's advanced or not, and would like to avoid any
potential embarrassment from asking the question in front of the whole
list, you are encouraged to mail it in the first instance to:
Steve Benner : S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
Your question will either be answered or, if deemed appropriate for the
list, forwarded to it. This service is offered as a potential red-face
saving and list-annoyance abatement service: there is absolutely no
requirement on anyone to make use of this service, but doing so may get you
an answer quicker than sending to the list, and can potentially save you
from finding yourself in the middle of a flaming. But then, as a DOOMster,
you can take a toasting, right?
**NOTE: If your questions are prefixed with the code WQ: in the subject
field (e.g. Subject: WQ: Sprites), they will be processed quicker because
they will be brought to light sooner!**
Remember also that if you want any general info about this list, you should
send mail to the list-server, thus:
To: majordomo@nvg.unit.no
Subject:
Body: info doom-editing
=====================================================================
This reminder will be posted here weekly, with the same subject title.
==
- -Steve Check out: http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/index.html
and "Tricks of the DOOM Gurus" (SAMS: ISBN:0-672-30717-0)
------------------------------
From: "Johan Straarup" <johan.straarup@smtpgw.ue.uppsala.se>
Date: 15 Aug 1995 11:39:00 U
Subject: Ang-me+me+me=?!
Automatiskt svar
Angande: Ang:me+me+me=?! 95-08-15
Good idea, too bad it wont work (correct me if I'm wrong) The only reason
your twins appear is because there are a number>1 of Player1 startingpoints.
There can be an (almost) infinite number of DeathMatch startingpoints and you
still only appear on one place. You could bypass this by making the level as
a cooperative one but with the startingpoints in places unreachable for the
others so that you cant sneak up on someone and kill him a zillion times just
because he starts on the same place, but you'd still be able to see the other
players on the map and see through their eyes.
/ Johan.
- --------------------------------------
Datum: 95-08-15 11.22
Till: Johan Straarup
Fran: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
ok folks, i've fooled around a bit with multiple player one starts and
here's a few stats for ya.
1 The last player one start that you add to the wad will be the one you
start from.
2 If your alter egos get hurt, you suffer the accumulated damage, for
example, if there are three of you and one gets hit for 10% and the other
gets hit for 20% you will lose 30%. Another thing is that if you put on god
mode you will still suffer the effects of previous damage, for example if
the other guys take 30% damage and you put god mode on, you will still be
at 70% even though your stats show 100%, if you take god mode off, your
stats remain at 100% but you will die with 30% health left.
3 There is a way for you to become undead. The only way I could find was to
fire a bfg close to several other yous, if you do it right, you will be a
zero health and wandering around invulnerable, without a weapon. you will
still be able to activate things and pick up things but if you pick up a
stimpack you will be back at 10% (or whatever)
4 the monsters treat the other yous as unmovable things, they can be moved
though, if they take a hit. You can hide behind several of yourself and the
critters will act as if you are behind a wall.
If anybody finds out anything ive missed, I would appreciate it if you would
let me know by email. Im planning on creating a wad where at the start you
get access to a bfg and have to kill a long distance cyberdemon before
continuing, there will be other hidden player ones near the bfg path who
will take damage leaving you weaponless and invulnerable for the remainder
of the level (unless you happen to find the stash)If anyone has additional
ideas for this level I would appreciate it if you let me know by email. I
also think i will make a deathmatch level with several extra players hidden
in strategic locations, so you could be happily fragging along and all of a
sudden you take damage. So you will have the multiple task of protecting
yourself and of protecting your other bodies. Please could someone try this
and tell me how the respawning works with kills to the normal player and to
the extras? if anybody could do this, i would appreciate it if, etc.etc.
Geek Code:
GO dgq H+(---) s+. !g !p au- a21 w+ v>++ c+1/2 Udon't ask N++ W+>++ M--
po---@ Y+1/2 t+++ 5++ R tv+ b+++ D++ B-- e+>++ U++(*) h+ f? n-@ y+
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 12:24:07 +0100
Subject: UDS Corrections
Here are some further corrections to the line-types section of the UDS, for
the benefit of those recording such things:-
LINETYPE 49 in v1.2 this line was S1: lower ceiling to floor+8, no crush;
its function changed in v1.666 (and above) to S1: start/resume slow crusher
How come we never noticed, or was it just that no-one bothered to mention it?
LINETYPE 78 & 85 : No operation.
I can't get these to do anything under any circumstances. Which is odd,
'cos I'm sure I once did. If anyone has any *different* info on these (from
EXPERIENCE, that is, not just from reading it somewhere) can they let me
(S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk) know urgently please. Thanks.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 07:44:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: me+me+me=?!
On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Spock To wrote:
> ok folks, i've fooled around a bit with multiple player one starts and
> here's a few stats for ya.
5. Someone posted this a month or so ago. If you use DeHackEd to change
the player into a monster (i.e. Imp) then every "Player 1 Start" will
immediately begin attacking the player as monsters always do.
Greg
------------------------------
From: Johan Straarup <ah94jst@csd.uu.se>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:53:41 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: me+me+me=?!
> Fran: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Im planning on creating a wad where at the start you
> get access to a bfg and have to kill a long distance cyberdemon before
> continuing, there will be other hidden player ones near the bfg path who
> will take damage leaving you weaponless and invulnerable for the remainder
> of the level (unless you happen to find the stash)If anyone has additional
> ideas for this level I would appreciate it if you let me know by email. I
> also think i will make a deathmatch level with several extra players hidden
> in strategic locations, so you could be happily fragging along and all of a
> sudden you take damage. So you will have the multiple task of protecting
> yourself and of protecting your other bodies. Please could someone try this
> and tell me how the respawning works with kills to the normal player and to
> the extras? if anybody could do this, i would appreciate it if, etc.etc.
>
Good idea, too bad it wont work (correct me if I'm wrong) The only reason
your twins appear is because there are a number>1 of Player1 startingpoints.
There can be an (almost) infinite number of DeathMatch startingpoints
and you still only appear on one place. You could bypass this by making the
level as a cooperative one but with the startingpoints in places
unreachable for the others so that you cant sneak up on someone and kill
him a zillion times just because he starts on the same place, but you'd
still be able to see the other players on the map and see through their eyes.
o--------------o---------------------------------------------o
| ^^^^^ | Death is lifes way of telling you not to H
| ( O O ) | be such a wiseguy. H
| - | H
| \_/ | Yours sincerely (Yeah right! ;)) H
| --- | Skinner. H
o==============o=============================================O
------------------------------
From: Ed Brey <brey@afd.mke.etn.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 07:44:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: More Visiplane error musings
Email seemed somewhat boring, until DTeeter@AOL.COM wrote:
>
>Another thing I have noticed about visiplane errors are that they are more
>likely to occur when turning your point of view rapidly (shift plus arrow for
>keyboard users) and when teleporting into a high visiplane situation.
>
I've experienced visplane errors on my level, which occure very near
each of my two teleporters. However, since they occur some time shortly
after I step out of the teleporter and since the teleporters overlook the
main room and a good deal many visplanes (I think we can safely use this
as a standard "well-known" term now), the existence of the visplane error
being near a teleporter is only coincidence.
Also, I've experienced the visplane error running/turning at full speed in a
dealthmatch. However, before I understood what visplanes were (or at least
as well as we understand them now), I was debugging my level by strafing
over to the area where I would get crashes facing away from the main room.
Then I would very slowly rotate to try to observe exactly what part of the
room had come into the view right before the crash. Moreover, I can't think
of any reason why your players angular velocity should affect how the engine
renders any given frame.
My assessment is that teleporters and turning/running speed are irrevelent
to the visplane error.
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 08:46:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: me+me+me=?!
On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Spock To wrote:
> 3 There is a way for you to become undead. The only way I could find was to
> fire a bfg close to several other yous, if you do it right, you will be a
> zero health and wandering around invulnerable, without a weapon. you will
I've found that you can get this to happen often (with any weapon) if
you pick up some armor first. You end up with 0% health and >0% armor.
Then if you get a creature to hit one of your other yous (I can't remember
offhand how I did that) until your armor goes to 0%, you will die normally.
I've played around with the BFG like that, but I couldn't do anything
other than blow myself away. I was trying to see if I could find a condition
where a player can survive a direct BFG hit since I've had a couple of
instances during deathmatch where another player has survived a direct hit
(one was point blank).
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: dnabiesz@maple.net (Vorticon)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 10:16:15 -0400
Subject: Re: wolf3d sources
>
><j>
>
>On Mon, 14 Aug 1995, Daniel Bateman wrote:
>
>> >BTW, was releasing the code an easy way to get copyright to apply?
>>
>> Is this a joke? If not, how would one obtain the source?
>
> ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/source/
>
> has anyone used these yet?
>
></j>
> _ ___ ___
>=====| |/ _ \/ __|===========================================================
> | | (_) \__ \ joost.schuur@student.uni-tuebingen.de lotlhwI on IRC
> _/ |\___/|___/ http://home.pages.de/~jschuur/ go away
>===|__/================================================nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'=
>
I have. You wouldn't believe the complexity of the code compared to DOOM (In sarcastic tone of voice) :)
Vorticon
Dennis Nabieszko
------------------------------
From: dnabiesz@maple.net (Vorticon)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 10:21:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Reject builder
>Can anyone recommend a good reject builder?
>
><flame-shield on>
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Erwen Tang | Tel: (703) 803-8940 | \|/ ____ \|/ |
>| Class of 1997 | Add: etang@pen.k12.va.us | @~/ ,. \~@ |
>| Thomas Jefferson | etang@capaccess.org | /_( \__/ )_\ |
>| High School For | etang@lan.tjhsst.edu | \__U_/ |
>| Science & Technology | | |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Try using DEU2. It rebuilds Blockmap, Nodes and Reject very well. You can also tweak the splitfactor and adjust the builed to your liking. It's available at:
ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/
Dennis Nabieszko
------------------------------
From: LummoxJR@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 10:20:59 -0400
Subject: Re: New DHE with code pointers
abates@central.co.nz (Alden Bates) wrote:
>What about adding new stuff? Like adding in new things and new sound
>names to suppliment the old ones. I want to have Heretic-like sound
objects.
Sorry, I don't know from Heretic.
But as far as adding new stuff is concerned, that's rather limited. To create
a new item for Doom, you'd have to usurp a data set from Doom II's list of
things, and steal any frames you'd need. You can create new items and
monsters this way; it's very possible to take an unused thing (like a Doom II
thing in Doom I) and change its frames and its ID (used by map files).
But if you mean adding new things altogether, no; not possible. DeHackEd
basically goes into the DOOM.EXE file and changes a few individual values,
but it has to maintain the exact length and structure of the original file.
The unused item strategy is especially useful in certain odd patches. Check
out the troopers' ghosts patch on my Web page at:
http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/doom/special/DHE/index.html
The patch, in the "spooky stuff" section, changes the ammo clip into a
monster, and a variation of that patch changes Doom II's archvile (or
anything else you don't need) into an ammo clip (to replace the one you
changed).
Lummox JR
Doom junkie
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #380
**********************************
