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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 304
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #304
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Monday, 5 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 304
hyper-experiments on overlayed line-switches
Re: doom-editing-digest V1 #303
Oops
Re: Oops
Re: hyper-experiments on overlayed line-switches
Re: hyper-experiments on overlayed line-switches
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (Drake O'Brien)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 95 00:22:20 -0800
Subject: hyper-experiments on overlayed line-switches
Alright, I know that the identical sidedef can be inserted on many
different lines, and many different lines can go between 2 vertices. DOOM
is 2-d, but it's a non-Euclidian 2-d that's for sure...
So Steve and Ty were right that DOOM triggers overlayed line-switches in
the low-->high order of linedef #, 'cause, as Steve opines, DOOM has no
other criterion it can go by. It took awhile but now I understand...
However, this got me thinking:
Since sidedefs are attached to linedefs, therefore if I give each of the
overlayed line-switches a different texture I should see a sequence of
textures... Well, the guess isn't entirely off the wall.
TEST1.WAD: linedef 49 with SW1COMM overlaying linedef 111 with SW1GSTON
TEST2.WAD: linedef 146 with SW1COMM overlaying linedef 111 with SW1GSTON
all other factors identical.
Playing TEST1.WAD: a) you see SW1GSTON on entry, not SW1COMM
b) hit spacebar once = linedef 49 triggered, SW1GSTON still visible
c) hit spacebar again = linedef 111 triggered, SW2GSTON now visible
Playing TEST2.WAD:
a) you see SW1GSTON on entry
b) hit spacebar once = linedef 111 triggered, SW2GSTON now visible
c) hit spacebar again = nothing, zilch, zero, linedef 146 is defunct,
dead.
It seems this proves (yup, I did a backup test) that when we pick up a
linedef to overlay it its sidedefs are left behind & only the abstract
linedef is actually overlayed (so there's got to be a couple unattached
sidedefs floating about in the non-euclidian ether of doom-space, altho'
WinDEU's cross reference checker didn't notice them). Therefore DOOM has a
way to distinguish the baseline as base from the lines overlayed on it,
namely, the baseline is the one with attached sidedefs. (You don't agree?
Then how do you explain the test results?)
When a S1 is triggered there're two possible actions:
1. main action - eg. door opens, floor rises, etc.
2. secondary action - texture SW1x flips to texture SW2x on any attached
sidedef.
The secondary action can only occur when there actually are attached
sidedefs (of course!), which in this case means only when the linedef isn't
an overlayed one. When the secondary action occurs it effects a 'closure',
blocking all further S1 actions on that multi-line construct.
I'd like to enter this post in the running for for being the most useless
post of the year, while still remaining on topic.
- --
Drake O'Brien
a13231@mindlink.bc.ca
------------------------------
From: ambient!larry@nvg.unit.no (Larry Mulcahy)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 23:46 MDT
Subject: Re: doom-editing-digest V1 #303
Shouting to be heard above the roaring chainsaw of dismemberment on Sun,
4 Jun 1995 02:22:09 +0200, Ted J. Vessenes bellowed:
Ted> Well... Back when 1.6 was released, I made some wads with all of
Ted> the new monsters. I didn't have pictures for them (nor a way of
Ted> including the sprites), but I found that if I never looked at
Ted> them (ie, hit tab and walked around) the game wouldn't quit. So
Ted> I catalogued all the monsters on 1.6.
Maybe Id decided this was a hole that needed to be closed, like getting
rid of the shareware -file option? I'm using v.1.9 of both DOOM I and
DOOM II.
The crash I am seeing occurs just as it's about to draw the graphics
screen for the first time. I never get close to actually encountering
the chaingunner. The chaingunner isn't visible from the player 1 start
point.
Ted> Maybe that's it! 1.6 didn't crash even when I _heard_ the
Ted> monsters. This was because DOOM 1.6 remapped the new sounds to
Ted> older sounds. It was really freaky have the Mancubus shout like
Ted> a baron waking up _each_time_ it shot some fireballs at you. But
Ted> now the sounds aren't remapped. Oh, and you might also want to
Ted> make sure that you included all of the fireball graphics. 1.6
Ted> still used the green fireballs for the mancubus (even though the
Ted> other fireball was in there. Don't ask me why.)
I tried adding the missing DOOM II sounds to the textures WAD, still
crashes the same way.
I browsed through the sprites of DOOM II again. Nothing jumps out as
obviously needed by the chaingunner, besides the CPOS* monster images.
Maybe I'll try adding all the sprites next...
- --
Larry Mulcahy larry@ambient.uucp
lmulcahy@nyx.cs.du.edu ambient!larry@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu
http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~lmulcahy/home.html
GCS d H s !g p1 au-- a w+++ v--- C++ U+ P++ L++ 3 E+ N++ K W--- M--
V-- po--- Y+ t 5++ j- R G? tv b++ D++ B--- e+++ u h+ f? r* n--- !y
The Failed Clinton Presidency: day 864, 598 days to go
------------------------------
From: a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (Drake O'Brien)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 95 02:41:27 -0800
Subject: Oops
Oops, I was wrong again. I vow, from now on I leave theory for
theoreticians! (but I've vowed that before..) Anyhow, I checked my
hypothesis that an overlayed line-switch was somehow abstract from its
sidedefs by applying those sidedef #'s to some nearby walls, giving the
sidedefs different SW1x textures. Then when I overlayed the lineswitches &
triggered them the nearby wall textures flipped from SW1x to SW2x
accordingly. So WinDEU's cross reference checker wasn't missing anything
(how could I ever have doubted????) & DOOM must have some other way of
distinguishing the baselines.
- --
Drake O'Brien
a13231@mindlink.bc.ca
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 09:21:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Oops
At 02:41 AM 6/4/95 -0800, doom-editing@nvg.unit.no wrote:
>Oops, I was wrong again. I vow, from now on I leave theory for
>theoreticians! (but I've vowed that before..) Anyhow, I checked my
>hypothesis that an overlayed line-switch was somehow abstract from its
>sidedefs by applying those sidedef #'s to some nearby walls, giving the
>sidedefs different SW1x textures. Then when I overlayed the lineswitches &
>triggered them the nearby wall textures flipped from SW1x to SW2x
>accordingly. So WinDEU's cross reference checker wasn't missing anything
>(how could I ever have doubted????) & DOOM must have some other way of
>distinguishing the baselines.
Sheesh! All this overlaid linedef talk is *REALLY* confusing me. How
about posting a WAD with ALL the overlaid linedef stuff figured out so far?
I need to see what all this is a bout before I try to understand it all.
Thanks.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: JRoberto@on-ramp.ior.com (Jacob Roberto)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 95 08:06 PDT
Subject: Re: hyper-experiments on overlayed line-switches
>Alright, I know that the identical sidedef can be inserted on many
>different lines, and many different lines can go between 2 vertices. DOOM
>is 2-d, but it's a non-Euclidian 2-d that's for sure...
>
>So Steve and Ty were right that DOOM triggers overlayed line-switches in
>the low-->high order of linedef #, 'cause, as Steve opines, DOOM has no
>other criterion it can go by. It took awhile but now I understand...
>However, this got me thinking:
>Since sidedefs are attached to linedefs, therefore if I give each of the
>overlayed line-switches a different texture I should see a sequence of
>textures... Well, the guess isn't entirely off the wall.
>
>TEST1.WAD: linedef 49 with SW1COMM overlaying linedef 111 with SW1GSTON
>TEST2.WAD: linedef 146 with SW1COMM overlaying linedef 111 with SW1GSTON
>
>all other factors identical.
>
>Playing TEST1.WAD: a) you see SW1GSTON on entry, not SW1COMM
>b) hit spacebar once = linedef 49 triggered, SW1GSTON still visible
>c) hit spacebar again = linedef 111 triggered, SW2GSTON now visible
>
>Playing TEST2.WAD:
>a) you see SW1GSTON on entry
>b) hit spacebar once = linedef 111 triggered, SW2GSTON now visible
>c) hit spacebar again = nothing, zilch, zero, linedef 146 is defunct,
>dead.
>
>It seems this proves (yup, I did a backup test) that when we pick up a
>linedef to overlay it its sidedefs are left behind & only the abstract
>linedef is actually overlayed (so there's got to be a couple unattached
>sidedefs floating about in the non-euclidian ether of doom-space, altho'
>WinDEU's cross reference checker didn't notice them). Therefore DOOM has a
>way to distinguish the baseline as base from the lines overlayed on it,
>namely, the baseline is the one with attached sidedefs. (You don't agree?
>Then how do you explain the test results?)
>
>When a S1 is triggered there're two possible actions:
>1. main action - eg. door opens, floor rises, etc.
>2. secondary action - texture SW1x flips to texture SW2x on any attached
>sidedef.
>
>The secondary action can only occur when there actually are attached
>sidedefs (of course!), which in this case means only when the linedef isn't
>an overlayed one. When the secondary action occurs it effects a 'closure',
>blocking all further S1 actions on that multi-line construct.
>
First of all, how come DOOM isn't crashing when you load it for having
cossing linedefs and two vertexes on the same spot.
Second of all, if DOOM can handle that, maybe putting two or more sectors
on the same spot but with different floor/ceiling heights, could allow you
to walk over and under it, hence turning a 2-d map into a more 3-d game.
I'll have to try that..
*******************************************
* Jacob Roberto (JRoberto@on-ramp.ior.com *
*******************************************
------------------------------
From: David Damerell <djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 21:03:27 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re: hyper-experiments on overlayed line-switches
On Sun, 4 Jun 1995, Jacob Roberto wrote:
> Second of all, if DOOM can handle that, maybe putting two or more sectors
> on the same spot but with different floor/ceiling heights, could allow you
> to walk over and under it, hence turning a 2-d map into a more 3-d game.
> I'll have to try that..
Doesn't work. Don't bother.
- --
David 'Gotterdammerung' Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk.
Trinity College, Cambridge University. CUWoCS President. All Hail Discordia!
|___| YOU MUST LEARN THE COMPASSION PROPER TO YOUR TRADE. |___|
| | | "What is that?" A SHARP EDGE. Terry Pratchett, Mort. | | |
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #304
**********************************
