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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 303
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #303
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Sunday, 4 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 303
Re: Doom sky
Shadows
Re: Doom sky
Re: Doom sky
DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
Re: Shadows
Re: Doom sky
Re: DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
Design tips wanted
Re: DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
Re: DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
Re: Design tips wanted
Re: Shadows
Re: Design tips wanted
Re: DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Matthew Miller <rmiller@infinet.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 21:26:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Doom sky
On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Denis wrote:
> Actually this has nothing to do with advanced editing...
> But does someone noticed that the sky of the first episode of Doom
> is the Zion-mountain? It's the name of the temple-mountain for a
> group of jews in israel (that's what my encyclopedia is saying).
> Combined with the swastika in the second episode - id, I think this
> was not your best choice...
(A) If you're talking of what I think you are when you refer to the
swastika, I must note that that wall formation is in ep. 1, not ep. 2,
and was modified to look less swastika-like for version 1.4 or so. (I'm
not sure what annoys me more--that people actually squawked over it, or
that Id actually bowed under the pressure to change it.)
(B) So what if it *is* the particular mountain of which you speak? Is
this mountain somehow different from any other mountain in existence,
besides its historical significance (which is all human-made, remember)?
Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com
------------------------------
From: jefross@ix.netcom.com (Jeff Ross)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 21:49:23 -0700
Subject: Shadows
In my latest wad file, DISIDENT.WAD, I've added a neat effect:
At the end of a long corridor with the BFG and a box of rockets is
a large pulsating light. In deathmatch you can wait at the entrance of
this corridor, and keep looking. When your opponent approaches the
corner, you will see his shadow momentarily cast on the floor. Then
you can lay into him with whatever weapon you have handy.
This is done with 3 linedefs.
______________________________ L
X I I I I
X * X I 1 I 2 I 3 G
X I I I H
* SHADOW ------------------------------ T
Each are 32 lengths apart. #'s 1&2 are WR change light to minimum
neighbor. #2 is a WR that turns the light to 255. So this causes a
shdaow when crossed either way.
These sidedefs affect a sector at the end of the corridor near the
ambusher. The sector is the shape of a long Marine shadow which shares
the same sector features as its' neighbor.
The result is a quick flashing shadow of the marine. I've tested it in
deathmatch, and it happened so fast that I was in awe, and forgot to
shoot. You can test it in one-person play by staring at the floor, and
slowly walking across the linedefs. Not everyone will notice this.
becasue the shadow falls at their feet when they run by, and no one
really stares at the ground when they run. I quickly pointed it out to
my partner, and he thought it was impressive.
ANother effect for 1-person mode is a building near the start. The
exit is right behind you, but you need to activate a switch to lower a
platform to get there. So you march inside the building, and then
proceed to destroy it by shooting a pack of barrels which set off a
chain reaction that will bring down the building. When you return to
the exit, you will see only a shell of the building remains.
I'll post it to ftp.cdrom.com soon, I'm still testing it. Anyone want
a copy, send me a request, and I'll mail it to you.
- -Jeff Ross
Author of Diehard2, Bespin, CapeFear, Rooftops, SwatTeam, and now
Disident WADS.
------------------------------
From: mustaine@usa.net (Tom Mustaine)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 01:10:30 -0600
Subject: Re: Doom sky
>On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Denis wrote:
>
>> Actually this has nothing to do with advanced editing...
>> But does someone noticed that the sky of the first episode of Doom
>> is the Zion-mountain? It's the name of the temple-mountain for a
>> group of jews in israel (that's what my encyclopedia is saying).
>> Combined with the swastika in the second episode - id, I think this
>> was not your best choice...
>
>(A) If you're talking of what I think you are when you refer to the
>swastika, I must note that that wall formation is in ep. 1, not ep. 2,
>and was modified to look less swastika-like for version 1.4 or so. (I'm
>not sure what annoys me more--that people actually squawked over it, or
>that Id actually bowed under the pressure to change it.)
After reading that message above, I went and checked out my Doom Ver 1.666
and my god you are right. I didn't even notice that change from the
original until it was pointed out, and I had been playing DM on that level
for weeks on end and still it passed right on by. I am suprised that Id did
that, with their trend for not backing down on voilence levels in their
games, very suprising that they would back down on a swastica. Its like Id
went nintendo for a while.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tom Mustaine - Core MMI 1995 Paradox/Clock Paradox/TWM2029@aol.com |
| Doom2 Master - Doom2 Speedy Gonzales - Doom2 Grand Master |
+--{Coming Soon The Web Page to End All Web Pages! Watch This Space!}-+
______/ _____/ _____/ _____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ __/
__/ __/__/ __/ __/ ____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/'95
______/ _____/ __/ _____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/
------------------------------
From: John Minadeo <jminadeo@cybercon.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 04:06:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Doom sky
On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Denis wrote:
>
> (A) If you're talking of what I think you are when you refer to the
> swastika, I must note that that wall formation is in ep. 1, not ep. 2,
> and was modified to look less swastika-like for version 1.4 or so. (I'm
> not sure what annoys me more--that people actually squawked over it, or
> that Id actually bowed under the pressure to change it.)
And remember, the swatstika(sp) was a cross long before it had negative
connotations. (Of course unless I',, full of shit...)
John Minadeo
jminadeo@cybercon.com
------------------------------
From: ambient!larry@nvg.unit.no (Larry Mulcahy)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 00:42 MDT
Subject: DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
Since v1.666, the .EXE has been the same for DOOM I and DOOM II. During
the discussion of the THE WAD project, someone said it was possible to
get all the DOOM II monsters in a DOOM I WAD, if you just supplied the
appropriate sprites.
Recently I tried this as follows. Using DEUTEX, I extracted the player
images from DOOM I (PLAY*.GIF). With some manipulations, I copied these
.GIF files so there was a one to one correspondence with the DOOM II
chaingunner, same exact CPOS*.GIF file names. I added these to my
sprites WAD, then tried creating a "thing number 65" (the chaingunner)
by typing the number in manually in DEU thing edit mode.
When I tried to run it, it immediately crashed. There was video
confetti on the screen and even CTRL-ALT-DEL wouldn't work. I had to
use the big red switch to reboot.
To make sure I wasn't doing something wrong editing the sprites, I then
tried just extracting the chaingunner sprites from DOOM II and using
them to build my DOOM I sprites WAD. The result was the same.
Merely loading the sprites wad doesn't cause any problems, but any DOOM
WAD with thing #65 crashes.
I have plenty of experience using DEUTEX/DEUSF to edit sprites and am
fairly confident this isn't a case of operator error. Can this be done
without using DHE? Has anyone gotten this to work?
- --
Larry Mulcahy larry@ambient.uucp
lmulcahy@nyx.cs.du.edu ambient!larry@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu
http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~lmulcahy/home.html
GCS d H s !g p1 au-- a w+++ v--- C++ U+ P++ L++ 3 E+ N++ K W--- M--
V-- po--- Y+ t 5++ j- R G? tv b++ D++ B--- e+++ u h+ f? r* n--- !y
The Failed Clinton Presidency: day 864, 598 days to go
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 10:52:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Shadows
> At the end of a long corridor with the BFG and a box of rockets is
> a large pulsating light. In deathmatch you can wait at the entrance of
> this corridor, and keep looking. When your opponent approaches the
> corner, you will see his shadow momentarily cast on the floor. Then
> you can lay into him with whatever weapon you have handy.
Would this backfire if the player is killed by a long-range weapon, so
that the linedefs are not triggered a second time? Then the shadow would
remain there, but the player would be dead. It sure sounds like a cool
idea though!
Greg
------------------------------
From: Denis.Moeller@kiel.netsurf.de (Denis)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 15:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Doom sky
Hi!
>>(I'm not sure what annoys me more--that people actually squawked over it,
>>or that Id actually bowed under the pressure to change it.)
>Its like Id went nintendo for a while.
I should have known that - I don't want to start another quarrelling
about this. You're right and all is fine. Let's stop this herewith, it's
really off-topic...
cya
Denis
[] Denis Moeller, author of NWT v1.3 and TiC's WAD Reviews. []
[] Just play our Doom (2) Add-Ons: Sudtic, Teutic, Obtic. Thanks. []
------------------------------
From: JRoberto@on-ramp.ior.com (Jacob Roberto)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 08:47 PDT
Subject: Re: DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
>Since v1.666, the .EXE has been the same for DOOM I and DOOM II. During
>the discussion of the THE WAD project, someone said it was possible to
>get all the DOOM II monsters in a DOOM I WAD, if you just supplied the
>appropriate sprites.
>
>Recently I tried this as follows. Using DEUTEX, I extracted the player
>images from DOOM I (PLAY*.GIF). With some manipulations, I copied these
>.GIF files so there was a one to one correspondence with the DOOM II
>chaingunner, same exact CPOS*.GIF file names. I added these to my
>sprites WAD, then tried creating a "thing number 65" (the chaingunner)
>by typing the number in manually in DEU thing edit mode.
>
>When I tried to run it, it immediately crashed. There was video
>confetti on the screen and even CTRL-ALT-DEL wouldn't work. I had to
>use the big red switch to reboot.
>
>To make sure I wasn't doing something wrong editing the sprites, I then
>tried just extracting the chaingunner sprites from DOOM II and using
>them to build my DOOM I sprites WAD. The result was the same.
>
>Merely loading the sprites wad doesn't cause any problems, but any DOOM
>WAD with thing #65 crashes.
>
>I have plenty of experience using DEUTEX/DEUSF to edit sprites and am
>fairly confident this isn't a case of operator error. Can this be done
>without using DHE? Has anyone gotten this to work?
>
You are wrong the DOOM 2 uses the same EXE as DOOM 1. If you compare sizes,
the DOOM 2 EXE is bigger. It also uses a different naming convention.
It is true that DOOM 2 uses the same *engine* as DOOM 1, but DOOM 2 has
slightly different code to handle certain aspects of the game and a lot of
new data. If Id had thought up the chaingunner when they were making doom 1,
they would have made sprites and put it in the game. The only way you could
put the DOOM 2 enemies in DOOM 1 would be to do some *serious* DOOM.EXE hacking.
*******************************************
* Jacob Roberto (JRoberto@on-ramp.ior.com *
*******************************************
------------------------------
From: JRoberto@on-ramp.ior.com (Jacob Roberto)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 09:53 PDT
Subject: Design tips wanted
Does anyone know where I can get a FAQ of good design tips for levels. I
already know how to use my editer, but an editer is no good without a good
plan for a level. Many people have huge, well-designed wads, but I would
like to know all the tricks-of-the-trade for level *design*.
*******************************************
* Jacob Roberto (JRoberto@on-ramp.ior.com *
*******************************************
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 12:53:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
> You are wrong the DOOM 2 uses the same EXE as DOOM 1. If you compare sizes,
> the DOOM 2 EXE is bigger. It also uses a different naming convention.
Incorrect. The exes are identical after 1.666. Do a DOS file compare
on doom.exe v1.9 and doom2.exe v1.9 and they are exactly the same, byte
for byte.
> It is true that DOOM 2 uses the same *engine* as DOOM 1, but DOOM 2 has
> slightly different code to handle certain aspects of the game and a lot of
> new data. If Id had thought up the chaingunner when they were making doom 1,
> they would have made sprites and put it in the game. The only way you could
> put the DOOM 2 enemies in DOOM 1 would be to do some *serious* DOOM.EXE hacking.
Check out DeHackEd if you don't believe me, on Doom.exe v1.9. The
chaingunner info is all in there, as is all of the other "doom 2 only"
monsters.
Greg
------------------------------
From: "Ted J. Vessenes" <tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 12:23:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
> Since v1.666, the .EXE has been the same for DOOM I and DOOM II. During
> the discussion of the THE WAD project, someone said it was possible to
> get all the DOOM II monsters in a DOOM I WAD, if you just supplied the
> appropriate sprites.
[ chop chop ]
> Merely loading the sprites wad doesn't cause any problems, but any DOOM
> WAD with thing #65 crashes.
>
> I have plenty of experience using DEUTEX/DEUSF to edit sprites and am
> fairly confident this isn't a case of operator error. Can this be done
> without using DHE? Has anyone gotten this to work?
Well... Back when 1.6 was released, I made some wads with all of the new
monsters. I didn't have pictures for them (nor a way of including the
sprites), but I found that if I never looked at them (ie, hit tab and walked
around) the game wouldn't quit. So I catalogued all the monsters on 1.6.
I'm not sure if this works in 1.666+, but it would be something to try.
Maybe it would give us a hint of what to try next.
Oh, and 1.6 didn't crash even though.....
Maybe that's it! 1.6 didn't crash even when I _heard_ the monsters. This
was because DOOM 1.6 remapped the new sounds to older sounds. It was really
freaky have the Mancubus shout like a baron waking up _each_time_ it shot
some fireballs at you. But now the sounds aren't remapped. Oh, and you
might also want to make sure that you included all of the fireball graphics.
1.6 still used the green fireballs for the mancubus (even though the other
fireball was in there. Don't ask me why.)
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 13:31:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Design tips wanted
> From: JRoberto@on-ramp.ior.com (Jacob Roberto)
> Reply-To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
>
> Does anyone know where I can get a FAQ of good design tips for levels. I
> already know how to use my editer, but an editer is no good without a good
> plan for a level. Many people have huge, well-designed wads, but I would
> like to know all the tricks-of-the-trade for level *design*.
> *******************************************
> * Jacob Roberto (JRoberto@on-ramp.ior.com *
> *******************************************
>
Try these two:
http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/doom/
http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/design12.txt
JohnW
__________________________________________________________
#include <stupidstuff.h>
#define USER "johnw" /* John Wakelin */
/* Johnw@datametrics.com */
main() /* (703) 385 7700 */
{
while (isstupid(USER)) ignore(USER);
}
------------------------------
From: simfan@ra.isisnet.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 13:27:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Shadows
>In my latest wad file, DISIDENT.WAD, I've added a neat effect:
>
> At the end of a long corridor with the BFG and a box of rockets is
>a large pulsating light. In deathmatch you can wait at the entrance of
>this corridor, and keep looking. When your opponent approaches the
>corner, you will see his shadow momentarily cast on the floor. Then
>you can lay into him with whatever weapon you have handy.
>
> This is done with 3 linedefs.
> ______________________________ L
> X I I I I
> X * X I 1 I 2 I 3 G
> X I I I H
> * SHADOW ------------------------------ T
>
>Each are 32 lengths apart. #'s 1&2 are WR change light to minimum
>neighbor. #2 is a WR that turns the light to 255. So this causes a
>shdaow when crossed either way.
>
>These sidedefs affect a sector at the end of the corridor near the
>ambusher. The sector is the shape of a long Marine shadow which shares
>the same sector features as its' neighbor.
>
>The result is a quick flashing shadow of the marine. I've tested it in
>deathmatch, and it happened so fast that I was in awe, and forgot to
>shoot. You can test it in one-person play by staring at the floor, and
>slowly walking across the linedefs. Not everyone will notice this.
>becasue the shadow falls at their feet when they run by, and no one
>really stares at the ground when they run. I quickly pointed it out to
>my partner, and he thought it was impressive.
>
>ANother effect for 1-person mode is a building near the start. The
>exit is right behind you, but you need to activate a switch to lower a
>platform to get there. So you march inside the building, and then
>proceed to destroy it by shooting a pack of barrels which set off a
>chain reaction that will bring down the building. When you return to
>the exit, you will see only a shell of the building remains.
>
>I'll post it to ftp.cdrom.com soon, I'm still testing it. Anyone want
>a copy, send me a request, and I'll mail it to you.
>
>-Jeff Ross
>Author of Diehard2, Bespin, CapeFear, Rooftops, SwatTeam, and now
>Disident WADS.
>
>
>
I would like a copy of your wads to see the effects>
------------------------------
From: Denis.Moeller@kiel.netsurf.de (Denis)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 22:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Design tips wanted
> Does anyone know where I can get a FAQ of good design tips for levels. I
>already know how to use my editer, but an editer is no good without a good
>plan for a level. Many people have huge, well-designed wads, but I would
>like to know all the tricks-of-the-trade for level *design*.
The design FAQ is a must. design12.zip or something on ftp.cdrom.com
cya
Denis
[] Denis Moeller, author of NWT v1.3 and TiC's WAD Reviews. []
[] Just play our Doom (2) Add-Ons: Sudtic, Teutic, Obtic. Thanks. []
------------------------------
From: Denis.Moeller@kiel.netsurf.de (Denis)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 22:22 GMT
Subject: Re: DOOM II monsters in DOOM I?
> Check out DeHackEd if you don't believe me, on Doom.exe v1.9. The
>chaingunner info is all in there, as is all of the other "doom 2 only"
>monsters.
Btw. wouldn't it be nice to have dehacked-patches (those text-things like
in version 2.4) IN a WAD. Dehacked could check the WAD and look for a
resource called dehack or something. This way we could put all necessary
changes coming with a project in ONE wad...
I mean, many doom (2) directories are full of files...
?
cya
Denis
[] Denis Moeller, author of NWT v1.3 and TiC's WAD Reviews. []
[] Just play our Doom (2) Add-Ons: Sudtic, Teutic, Obtic. Thanks. []
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #303
**********************************
