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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 321
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #321
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 22 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 321
Re: Romero talks Quake with IRC losers
Re: simple doom question
re: DOOM PACKETS ...
Re: simple doom question
Re: DOOM PACKETS
Nine times! What IS this???!!!
DOOM packet info!
re: DOOM PACKETS ...
re: DOOM PACKETS ...
Doom Editing CD-ROMS
re: DOOM PACKETS ...
Re: Doom Editing CD-ROMS
Re: simple doom question
Re: Questions
A question about DOOM maps
re: DOOM PACKETS ...
Re: Doom Editing CD-ROMS
RE: Romero talks Quake with IRC losers
Re: A question about DOOM maps
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Murray Chapman <muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 11:09:06 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: Romero talks Quake with IRC losers
On Tue, 20 Jun 1995, James L Elson wrote:
> BTW, if you are really interested in asking Romero some technical
> questions, why don't you do so here. Afterall, he was subscribed to
> this list. (I remember his post, but I haven't checked to see if he
> still is or not.) Also, his e-mail address is well known.
Um... I *did* ask the questions here.
As for emailing him direct, he's got enough on his plate. I don't want to
waste his time when he could be programming the game. Accordingly, I
asked the questions in a forum where he could answer/contribute in his own
time, if he wanted to at all. Even if he ignores them, we might conclude
that the questions are particularly relevant.
Additionally, doom-editing is the only forum available to me where Quake
was being discussed in a non-wowser and intelligent manner. It's a pity
that so many have responded in such a knee-jerk manner to a single off-hand
comment which comprised only a couple of lines of the entire post!
It's clear that many object to these kind of discussions, so this will be
my final post on the matter. If anyone else is interested in Quake
system architecture, then email me and we'll have a chat.
Murray
- -- Murray Chapman Zheenl Punczna --
- -- muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au zhmmyr@pf.hd.bm.nh --
- -- University of Queensland Havirefvgl bs Dhrrafynaq --
- -- Brisbane, Australia Oevfonar, Nhfgenyvn --
------------------------------
From: PEBARH@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 22:48:11 -0400
Subject: Re: simple doom question
please send me any/all info on the newsletter.....wad disks ???? great idea.
------------------------------
From: "Gabriel A. Cain" <gcain01@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 23:54:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: re: DOOM PACKETS ...
Umm, the thing about where the players start in multi-player games IS IN
THE WAD FILE. The person that makes the wad just chooses where to place
them, although, during the game, the choice of starts IS random.
/-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-\
| One .sig to rule them all, one .sig to find them; |
| One .sig to bring them all and on the Internet bind them... |
| In the land of 'puters where the hackers lie... |
\>>>>>>>>>> --Gabriel Cain gcain01@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us <<<<<<<<<</
------------------------------
From: Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 08:50:57 BST
Subject: Re: simple doom question
> From doom-editing-owner@nvg.unit.no Tue Jun 20 20:20:34 1995
> From: AFree120@AOL.COM
> In DCKv2.2 how can i add all the fast doors and fast elevators which are not
> choices in dck now?
I do not use Dck, but there *should* be an option for entering a decimal
value for a linedef type. There should also be a list of line types out
there somewhere (Unofficial Doom Specs?), so that you can enter these line
types as numbers.
OK, so there may not be, but please don't flame - I'm only trying to help :)
> Oh, and how do I add my ENDDOOMER file to my .wad level?
Here the place to look is DeuTex, and the unofficial doom specs. I think
ENDDOOMER is explained in the LMP section of deutexman.
Byeeeee,
Bob.
...If at first you don't succeed - skydiving just ain't for you...
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 21:45:50 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: DOOM PACKETS
On Tue, 20 Jun 1995 Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com wrote:
> LMP's don't have the message strings in them ... which tells me LMP's
> don't have one nessassry data type I would need to echo messages to
> deathmatch players from outside non-player clients ....
Here's a way to find this out: Why not go ahead and write the program
and have it dump whatever it monitors to a file. You can probably work
it out from that.
BTW, who else thinks it's a shame message strings aren't stored in LMPs? :-)
Alden Bates. (Who wants to have an LMP editor to insert comments in his
LMPs... :-)
------------------------------
From: Geniac <sdavisgl@lawson.its.utas.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 20:01:27 0000
Subject: Nine times! What IS this???!!!
Well, I seem (no, correct that...) I *have* gotten my digest eight.. no,
there's another as I speak! Nine! I've got it nine times now...
What da?
Sorry for no ObDoom, but this is crazy!
BTW folks, I just requested the FAQ file from Major Domo, and half way
down, I read this:
"Sounds good... what doesn't DOOM-editing cover?
..rumors about DOOM/Quake/id..."
hehehe... just thought I'd point it out. :-)
Geniac
And now for a homeless shamepage plug...
http://www.moscow.com/homepages/sdavisgl@lawson.its.utas.edu.au.html
"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates 1981
"...get real y'big gusset snuffler..." - David Tomlinson 1995
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 12:19:58 +0200
Subject: DOOM packet info!
Yelling at everybody: GET THE UDS ERRATA!
Again: there's a www.page at
http://www.nero.uni-bonn.de/~bernd/uds.html
containing misc. add-ons and corrections (like
DOOM packet info). There's a link from Steve's
recommended
http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/index.html
page, too. If you've got any trouble (no www),
contact me via e-mail (NOT the tlist).
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 22:16:49 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: re: DOOM PACKETS ...
On Tue, 20 Jun 1995, Gabriel A. Cain wrote:
> Umm, the thing about where the players start in multi-player games IS IN
> THE WAD FILE. The person that makes the wad just chooses where to place
> them, although, during the game, the choice of starts IS random.
Yes, what I'm interested in is the order in which the Deathmatch starts
are selected. I am unsure whether it's to do with the order of the start
in the object list. I haven't been sufficiently interested to fiddly
around, but I will do when I have some time.
Alden Bates.
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 21:42:27 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: re: DOOM PACKETS ...
On Tue, 20 Jun 1995, Denis wrote:
> >> Ditto for monsters spawning on level 30 of DOOM II. Thus, all this is
> >> not random. Does anyone have any other theories?
> This cool thing is far from random. In fact they will come out in order
> of the landing-points. I noticed that by editing the last level for Obituary.
> There are 3 points and monsters just come to one to another.
I was refering to which monster appears, rather than where they appear.
Sorry, I should have made this clearer, since the original text was
talking about Deathmatch landing points. :-)
> [machines landing deathmatches in same sequence of spots]
True, deathmatch landings are the same sequence every time. It's quite
annoying on "The Pit" level where one player lands halfway through a Baron...
Does anyone know exactly how the deathmatch starts are selected? IE, so
when making a level, you can tell what sequence of spots the players will
start at?
Alden Bates.
------------------------------
From: Thomas Urquhart <turquhar@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 08:03:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Doom Editing CD-ROMS
Could anyone advise me on which CD-ROM package is good or better? I
have something from Sybex and D-ZONE! Which one is better and/or easier
to work with?
Thanks!
TOMster
Thomas M. Urquhart,Jr. "Farewell! Farewell!
THE "TOMster"
TURQUHAR@WELCHLINK.WELCH.JHU.EDU Parting Is Such Sweet Sorrow!
TURQUHAR@MAIL.BCPL.LIB.MD.US
Johns Hopkins University So I'll stop writing
all this mush...
and E-Mail You
TOMORROW!"
...TOMster
------------------------------
From: tak5@po.cwru.edu (Timothy A. Kington)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 09:07:48 -0400
Subject: re: DOOM PACKETS ...
Reply to message from gcain01@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us of Wed, 21 Jun
>
>Umm, the thing about where the players start in multi-player games IS IN
>THE WAD FILE. The person that makes the wad just chooses where to place
>them, although, during the game, the choice of starts IS random.
>
Actually, nothing is random. Don't DM players always start in the first
four deathmatch starts the first time? All the Dm computers need to know
is what number each player is, and they need to be continuously informed of
controller input. (PLus chat messages)
- --
If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking a beer, I bet it makes
beer shoot out your nose. Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No,
wait-Not me, you. If you ever catch on fire, try not to see yourself in
the mirror, because I bet that REALLY throws you into a panic.(Tim Kington)
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 17:43:39 +0100
Subject: Re: Doom Editing CD-ROMS
At 8:03 am 21/6/95, Thomas Urquhart wrote:
>Could anyone advise me on which CD-ROM package is good or better? I
>have something from Sybex and D-ZONE! Which one is better and/or easier
>to work with?
All answers to this on a personal channel please, unless short and
specifically related to DOOM editing.
Thanks
Steve Benner
List caretaker
------------------------------
From: VGCB02A@prodigy.com (MR WESLEY N FREDRICK)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 15:48:26 EDT
Subject: Re: simple doom question
> In DCKv2.2 how can i add all the fast doors and fast elevators which
> are not choices in dck now?
Maybe he (author of DCK) didn't add a decimal value choice to the linedef
types because he put all of DOOM2's linedef types in there and he knew they
were complete. I just got done using it, and I put a fast door in my
level. But they're called "blazing" doors rather than fast. It's all
there as far as I can see.
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 17:38:32 +0100
Subject: Re: Questions
At 1:48 pm 18/6/95, Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg wrote:
>
[excellent answers to Bill Mcclendon's questions snipped]
>
>I'm sure Steve Benner would have answered them better than
>I just have.
>(I'm quite sure he WILL answer when he gets back from his little vacation)
Why, thank you so much for the kind words, Jens: and such modesty too --
I'm sure I couldn't have answered the questions any better. Except for this
one:
>> 2. How many deathmatch starting spots maximum can be
>> placed in a level? Is there a number limit
>[sorry I don't know the answer to question number2]
The answer is 10. Any extra don't seem to do any harm, but they are not used.
>
>>... You play one-player games?! What's wrong with your modem?
>
>It's 2400 baud...
:-D
> Ok since you wrote what you did (HANBK) I'll do the same:
> Author of: RMB & The special effects WWW page.
>
And don't forget "Tricks of the DOOM Programming Gurus"/"The DOOM Companion" ;)
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: VGCB02A@prodigy.com (MR WESLEY N FREDRICK)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 14:26:56 EDT
Subject: A question about DOOM maps
Hi all you DOOMers,
I've been making a level of my own with DCK (Doom Construction Kit, the
best in the world), and I have a few questions about some of the more
advanced features of level editing. Hopefully someone knows about this stuff.
1. How can I activate a sector to open like a door when enemies are killed?
In MAP07, four sectors fall when the mancubi are slain. When the spiders
are killed, a step pops up allowing exit. I think it may have something to
do with tag numbers 666 and 667, but I can't get it to work elsewhere.
2. Can anyone explain the weird thing that happens in the automap? When
"M" is pressed, it puts a number (1 to 9 I think) at my current position.
Thanks a lot everyone.
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 17:37:38 +0100
Subject: re: DOOM PACKETS ...
At 12:09 pm 19/6/95, Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com wrote:
>>Anyway, back to the question that started this thread: it is not possible
>>to know exactly where each player is and where the monsters are only by
>>looking at the network packets (unless you have a copy of the source of the
>>Doom engine, of course).
>
>You guys are the experts here ... but I think I am correct in saying that
>in the beginning ... DOOM sends out one of MANY randomly selected posistions
>that the player is initialized at start up ... Maybe a look up like another
>person sayed ... but definatly a look-up index of somekind .... you
>just can't hard code something like that and come out with decent results.
> But I am the newbie and won't contest to your lodgic ;)
All DOOM is likely to send is a DM start position number: no absolute map
position info is needed--the DM start position number provides that direct
from the map. For your purposes of course it is entirely immaterial *how*
DOOM decides this info--you only need to catch it as it goes by.
*HOWEVER* what you will need to do is determine an algorithm to model
DOOM's response to the player actions. Remember that after being seeded
with a DM start (and that may even be determined by player colour or some
such internal info also) DOOM will need to communicate no information
beyond player keypresses. DOOM is an entirely deterministic game. This is
why each player's .EXE and IWAD have to be identical. Unless you can
*precisely* model DOOM's own behavioural algorithm (a task I don't envy
you) your (very worthy) project seems doomed (sorry) to failure, I'm
afraid.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: AFree120@AOL.COM
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 15:19:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Doom Editing CD-ROMS
I have d! zone (the one with 900 new levels). I think is is great. I've still
got to try 2/3'rds of the wads tho. Most of the editors you can get a more
recent version of through the net now tho. I guess the newest one (over 1000
new levels) is more up to date. Still it has most everything you need to edit
DOOM in most any way.
------------------------------
From: mustaine@usa.net (Tom Mustaine)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 16:53:27 -0600
Subject: RE: Romero talks Quake with IRC losers
>Losers!? WHERE THE HELL DO YOU GET OFF!? Generalizing like that about
>THOUSANDS of people....what makes us losers? the fact that we use irc?
>hmmmmmmmmmm? The fact that we actually PLAY the game!? Have YOU PLAYED
>the game!? I doubt very much that many of the readers of this list
>actually PLAY doom. I can tell you though that ALL of the people on #Doom
>on irc DO play the game...thats what they are there for, and THAT is
>what their questions were geared for, we wanna know how its gonna PLAY,
>we don't care how it works, as long as it does, we don't care what kinda
>network bullshit they put in, as long as we can PLAY it. If that makes us
>losers then well.....I'm proud to be a loser.
I would be happy if this thread would quickly END. I go off for a week and
come back
to see 15 messages with RE: Romero talks with IRC losers. Well, here is a
news flash for EVERYONE, Romero talks with Lots of people online, from AOL,
to IRC, to DWANGO. And guess what, If all of those conversations were
recorded they would cover about the exact same thing that IRC did.
As for the Flame war that has started over this, That dosen't belong on this
list. Take it to Altdeath Level 1 if you guys are really having a problem here.
The only way you are going to get any technical info about quake is to wait
for it to come out and pick it apart, or break into Id and steal some source
code (Not recommended! But would be cool!)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tom Mustaine - Core MMI 1995 Paradox/Clock Paradox/TWM2029@aol.com |
| Doom2 Master - Doom2 Speedy Gonzales - Doom2 Grand Master |
+--{Coming Soon The Web Page to End All Web Pages! Watch This Space!}-+
______/ _____/ _____/ _____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ __/
__/ __/__/ __/ __/ ____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/'95
______/ _____/ __/ _____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/
------------------------------
From: Robnoxious@AOL.COM
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 19:25:58 -0400
Subject: Re: A question about DOOM maps
The "M" is for MARK.
If you find a packet of health, let's say, but can't use it when you find it
because you have 100%, you can switch to the map, press M and mark the spot.
Then later when you take some hits and you have 25% health, or whatever, you
can look on your map and find your way back to the health, or ammo, or
whatever.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #321
**********************************
