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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 306
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #306
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Tuesday, 6 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 306
Re: Tech Lamps using WinDEU 5.24?
Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
Re: Weird things about the origional levels
Re: Weird things about the origional levels
Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
RE: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
Re: multi x1s
Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
Looking for ftp-site...
Re: multi x1s
Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
Re: multi x1s
Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
Re: Shadows
Re: Tech Lamps using WinDEU 5.24?
Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
Re: Tech Lamps using WinDEU 5.24?
Re: multi x1s
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: thldrmn@neosoft.com (Ty Halderman)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 21:25:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Tech Lamps using WinDEU 5.24?
>I never noticed this before this weekend, but WinDEU 5.24 doesn't seem
>able to recognize/use Doom II's medium or tall 'Tech Lamps'.
Seems that I noticed that and maybe another thing when I was using that.
>(Is there a way to manually enter the
>THING numbers in WinDEU 5.24?
No :( Big deficiency in my book. I've taken to using DETH in fact, since
in there if there *is* something missing you can add it to the text files
yourself. It's based on DEU 5.21 I think and has the DEU-flavored interface,
so I'm happy again. Worst case, put the level in any version of DEU it'll
fit in, type the numbers in, and then go back to WinDEU.
=-Ty Halderman (thldrmn@neosoft.com)-=
=- Keeper of Things Miscellaneous -=
------------------------------
From: thldrmn@neosoft.com (Ty Halderman)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 21:30:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
>Are there any MAP editors available that won't throw away any additional
>texture-patches that I've added to my PWAD when I rebuild the damn thing?
I've taken to putting the textures in a separate wad file. I can load it
along with the level(s) into the editor, and on the DOOM2 command line. No
real advantage I can see to putting them into one, until release time.
Just add it to your DEU.INI or whatever WinDEU uses (blank brain moment) as
one of the files to load, or open it in the dialog.
=-Ty Halderman (thldrmn@neosoft.com)-=
=- Keeper of Things Miscellaneous -=
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 22:11:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
At 03:36 PM 6/5/95, doom-editing@nvg.unit.no wrote:
>Are there any MAP editors available that won't throw away any additional
>texture-patches that I've added to my PWAD when I rebuild the damn thing?
>
>When WinDEU 5.24 rebuilds my map resources, it just throws away any
>non-map resources that happen to be in the PWAD. I'd really like to be
>able to add my patches and texture-list to my PWAD when I begin
>creating my level, so that I can see the new textures in action early
>on.
>
>thx,
Why not make a separate wad with just graphics in it, then have a wad
with level data in it, and sue both to edit/test? But to answer the question
DCK 2.2f doesnt discard data, but if you dont want to move editors try my
suggestion.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: Shawn L Hawkins <SLH3622@tntech.edu>
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 23:14:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Weird things about the origional levels
> - In level 30, how does doom know where to explode the rockets when
> the level is beaten?
I once built a level-30 that had a monster spawner in the center of a large
room, and after the Romero Doll was killed (or, as they say around here,
`kilt'), a wall of fire appeared about 128 units (guess) south of where the
monster-spawner-and-head were.
Also, and I've seen this in the original Level 30, a monster-spawner will
fling off a hellcube towards a spawn-spot, and it'll just fly past, through
the walls, and off the map. Weird.
Shawn
------------------------------
From: Matthew Miller <rmiller@infinet.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 00:21:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Weird things about the origional levels
On Mon, 5 Jun 1995, Jacob Roberto wrote:
> There are a few things in the doom 2 levels that I have no idea how they
> are done or what they are for. It would be very nice to figure these out
> since they would be nice special effects to add to a WAD.
> The things are:
> - In level 30, there is a mystery linedef out to the side of the
> level. It is in its own sector and my editer gives my errors that the sector
> is not closed, and I one tried removing it, saving the level as a PWAD, and
> playing back a demo of someone beating level 30, but it went out of sinc (he
> was dying and shooting the walls) The linedef doesn't have a sector tag and
> the type is 0. What could this linedef be for?
Showing off Sandy Petersen's carelessness once again? (Petersen also
brought you the missing-texture problems on map01 and that unnecessary
lower-unpegged line on Doom 1's E2M9, among other little flubs, but I'm
being sarcastic. Sorry.)
I doubt this linedef *really* serves any purpose, but demo LuMPs
tend to go awry if even the tiniest thing is changed in a level (and your
editor might have done something else--shuffled around the nodes, say).
> - In level 30, how does doom know where to explode the rockets when
> the level is beaten?
> - In level 32, how does doom know that it need to raise the sector
> once all the keens are destroyed?
> - In level 7, hoe does the level do certain things when all of a
> certain type of enemy is destroyed?
The same way the game knows to lower that outer wall when you kill the
Barons on Doom 1's E1M8; the same way it knows to end the game when you
kill the Cyberdemon on E2M8 and the Spiderdemon on E3M8: these are all
hard-coded into the doom[2].exe file. It is beyond the scope of simple
level editing to change what tricks happen on which levels; to do that,
you would have to edit the .exe file (which is a pain both for you
and for anyone who attempts to play your level!).
You *can*, though, take advantage of the tricks that are already
in place. Note, for instance, that on MAP07 the sectors which lower after
you dispose of the Mancubi, are all tagged with the charming number 666
(Wait 'til the whiny corporate attorneys-at-law get wind of *that*!) and
the sector which rises up a bit after all Arachnotrons are dead on that
level, is tagged with the number 777. This doesn't work in exactly this
fashion on any other level besides MAP07, but other levels have other
sectrors tagged in other ways which, as I mentioned before, are based on
actions hard-coded into the .exe. An example of this is E1M8 as I
mentioned earlier.
Oh, jeez, it's late. If you have any more questions, just ask.
Me, I'm heading off for the night...
Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com
------------------------------
From: Patrick Manderson <morgan@indy.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 00:46:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
> Are there any MAP editors available that won't throw away any additional
> texture-patches that I've added to my PWAD when I rebuild the damn thing?
>
Just keep your map wad and texture wad's separate. When you load the
game, load both wad's. After you've finished playtesting your wad. Merge
them into one. But keep your separate copies for yourselfwhen you need to
fix any bugs.
morgan@indy.net
------------------------------
From: D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 09:42:47 +0100
Subject: RE: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
I have got round this problem by loading up both my map and
graphic Pwad in the editor and both in Doom while testing, then
I group them together at the end. However I agree this is
awkward because when bug reports come in, you have to regroup
the thing again! Hope someone knows this.
Dario
------------------------------
From: a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (Drake O'Brien)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 95 05:12:54 -0800
Subject: Re: multi x1s
Robert Forsman replies to my post:
>> Finally, there was no sense in posting a zipped wad because none of the
>> info about how things were done etc. would be visible anyhow. After you
>> click 'yes' to merge the vertices in WinDEU the vertices are merged -
>> there's no trace of the old form, and also there's no way to see that
>> there're superimposed linedefs present, or how many there are.
> Drag to mark in a region, then use "next marked" and "prev marked".
What do
>you mean your editor doesn't support those features? Try another one.
Well I'm sure I'd use PFME if I had the operating system, but I think I
need UNIX for that? WinDEU5.24 at least allows me to create the
structures. But WinDEU doesn't (seem to) have a "next marked" and "prev
marked" function - it has a "next" and "prev" function which searches the
whole level for eg. '147' or '145' if drag to mark highlights linedef #146.
So I'm unsure if any (dos/windows) editor gives both the control necessary
to create these structures plus the "next marked" and "prev marked"
function.
And, unlike you I haven't the ability to code these functions into my own
editor as needed! Hmm, I wonder if it's worth it to try learning how to
write code 'just for fun'?... No! Kill that thought!!!
- --
Drake O'Brien
a13231@mindlink.bc.ca
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 1995 09:21:51 EDT
Subject: Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby) ,in message <m0sIkkd-000AzqC@ornews.intel
.com>, wrote:
> Are there any MAP editors available that won't throw away any additional
> texture-patches that I've added to my PWAD when I rebuild the damn thing?
Yeah, I don't know which they are (Jason?). Anyway, just create ANOTHER
pwad with textures and load them both when you test.
------------------------------
From: Denis.Moeller@kiel.netsurf.de (Denis)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 13:26 GMT
Subject: Looking for ftp-site...
Hi!
For our Doom 2 WAD project we are in need of a directory on a ftp-site,
where we could upload/download our stuff. We don't want the stuff to
be seen/downloaded/spreaded by others, so we like to use passwords for
our ZIPs. Ftp.cdrom.com isn't able to lend us a dir, because of the
stuff-under-development (they want complete, released stuff) and maybe
the passwords. I'm posting this here, if I wanted to have a bunch of
lamers from AOL accessing our project-datas, I would have posted this
to a newsgroup... (yes, I know, not all AOLers are dummies)
So, if ANYBODY got an idea - please let me know ASAP. And, please, don't
reply to this mailing-list; by E_MAIL to ME: denis.moeller@kiel.netsurf.de
Thanks!
cya
Denis
[] Denis Moeller, author of NWT v1.3 and TiC's WAD Reviews. []
[] Just play our Doom (2) Add-Ons: Sudtic, Teutic, Obtic. Thanks. []
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 1995 10:04:45 EDT
Subject: Re: multi x1s
a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (Drake O'Brien) ,in message <m0sIxZA-0004rRC@deep.rsoft.b
c.ca>, wrote:
> Well I'm sure I'd use PFME if I had the operating system, but I think I
> need UNIX for that?
I wasn't suggesting PFME. I realize that very few people here have the
patience to deal with UNIX.
> structures. But WinDEU doesn't (seem to) have a "next marked" and "prev
> marked" function
Talk to the author. I'm sure he would put it on his list.
> And, unlike you I haven't the ability to code these functions into my own
> editor as needed! Hmm, I wonder if it's worth it to try learning how to
> write code 'just for fun'?... No! Kill that thought!!!
Heck, I can't even add the functionality to windeu. I don't have the
necessary tools or patience to learn them. I'll stick to "make" and "emacs".
They work on a lot of platforms (but not most _machines_).
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 14:41:53 +0100
Subject: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
FROM: the list caretaker; *** A REMINDER ***
The purpose of this list is to discuss *advanced* DOOM editing techniques.
If you have a question but don't know whether it's advanced or not, and
would like to avoid the extreme embarrassment of demonstrating the extent
of your ignorance in front of your peers, you are encouraged to mail it in
the first instance to:
Steve Benner : S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
Your question will either be answered or, if deemed suitable, forwarded to
the list. This service is offered as a potential red-face saving and
list-annoyance abatement service. Feel free to send questions at any level
on any topic of WAD editing.
**NOTE: If your questions are prefixed with the code WQ: in the subject
field (e.g. Subject: WQ: Sprites), they will be processed quicker because
they will be brought to light sooner!**
Remember also that if you want any general info about this list, you should
send mail to the list-server, thus:
To: majordomo@nvg.unit.no
Subject:
Body: info doom-editing
=====================================================================
This reminder will be posted here weekly, with the same subject title.
==
- -Steve Check out: http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/index.html
and "Tricks of the DOOM Programming Gurus" (SAMS: ISBN:0-672-30717-0)
------------------------------
From: "Jason Hoffoss" <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 09:29:39 CST
Subject: Re: multi x1s
On Tue, 06 Jun 95 05:12:54 -0800,
Drake O'Brien <a13231@mindlink.bc.ca> wrote:
>And, unlike you I haven't the ability to code these functions into my own
>editor as needed! Hmm, I wonder if it's worth it to try learning how to
>write code 'just for fun'?... No! Kill that thought!!!
Heh, luckily I do. However, I don't see exactly how such a thing would
work, and full planning is the first step to adding anything in to any
editor, at least so it's not a half-ass job or anything. Of what use
would a prev marked and next marked be exactly? Until I can find an
answer to that question, it doesn't need to be added in.. :)
-Jason
.............................................. .
. .
. Jason Hoffoss - hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu .
.. http://www.umn.edu/nlhome/g253/hoffo002/ .
... .
:... Author of DMapEdit - A map editor for Doom! .
::... http://www.umn.edu/nlhome/g253/hoffo002/dmapedit/dmapedit.html
------------------------------
From: rpa@info.fundp.ac.be (Renaud Paquay)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 15:25:35 +0200
Subject: Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
>Are there any MAP editors available that won't throw away any additional
>texture-patches that I've added to my PWAD when I rebuild the damn thing?
>
>When WinDEU 5.24 rebuilds my map resources, it just throws away any
>non-map resources that happen to be in the PWAD. I'd really like to be
>able to add my patches and texture-list to my PWAD when I begin
>creating my level, so that I can see the new textures in action early
>on.
There's a solution to this with WinDEU:
1. Create a first PWAD with your map (and only that)
2. Create a second PWAD with your textures
3. Open both of them in WinDEU (maybe put them in WINDEU.INI so that they will
be opened every time you start WinDEU)
4. Edit your map, then save it
5. Use the "File|Group PWAD" menu item. This will create a PWAD with your
map and
your textures
6. Go back to 4 any time you want to edit
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Renaud Paquay |
| Member of the DEU team and main WinDEU programmer |
| rpa@info.fundp.ac.be |
| http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~rpa |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: zorro@spirit.com.au (Jeremy Riley)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 01:25:06 +1000
Subject: Re: Shadows
>I'll post it to ftp.cdrom.com soon, I'm still testing it. Anyone want
>a copy, send me a request, and I'll mail it to you.
>
Sounds pretty cool. Like the shadow idea too. I'd like to see a copy
of it.
Jeremy
------------------------------
From: thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:24:42 -0800 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Tech Lamps using WinDEU 5.24?
>
> No :( Big deficiency in my book. I've taken to using DETH in fact, since
> in there if there *is* something missing you can add it to the text files
> yourself. It's based on DEU 5.21 I think and has the DEU-flavored interface,
> so I'm happy again. Worst case, put the level in any version of DEU it'll
> fit in, type the numbers in, and then go back to WinDEU.
>
Thanks Ty. I took DETH, DCK, and DEEP home last night to try them out.
I prefer DETH's interface (okay, so I'm biased...), but it couldn't save
non-map information back to my wad. Of the three, DETH and DCK are
still on my hard drive...
Thanks again,
Brian
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:28:39 -0800 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
>
> I've taken to putting the textures in a separate wad file. I can load it
> along with the level(s) into the editor, and on the DOOM2 command line. No
> real advantage I can see to putting them into one, until release time.
>
> Just add it to your DEU.INI or whatever WinDEU uses (blank brain moment) as
> one of the files to load, or open it in the dialog.
>
Hi again,
Yeah, that's pretty much what everyone is telling me, so I think I'll
do that for now. After my level is playtested, I'll combine the map-PWAD
and tex-PWAD just before release. I've been told that both DCK and
DMapEd support (leave alone, instead of discarding) non-map info.
Thanks again,
Brian
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Jason Hoffoss" <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 09:24:28 CST
Subject: Re: Editors that don't discard add-in patches?
On Tue, 06 Jun 1995 09:21:51 EDT,
Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu> wrote:
>thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby) ,in message <m0sIkkd-000AzqC@ornews.intel
> .com>, wrote:
>
>> Are there any MAP editors available that won't throw away any additional
>> texture-patches that I've added to my PWAD when I rebuild the damn thing?
>
> Yeah, I don't know which they are (Jason?). Anyway, just create ANOTHER
>pwad with textures and load them both when you test.
Yes, DMapEdit is one editor that destroys nothing. Why the hell no one
else bothers to do this, I will never know. I mean, this is just good
programming practice as I see it. And sorry, I don't buy that it's oh so
much more trouble to put in support for that. I put it in like this way
back when DMapEdit first supported writting to PWADs at all, which was
just about after people first suggested even using PWADs instead of
writting directly to the IWAD. (boy that was a long time ago now..)
Also, this is kinda pathetic. Something like 8 replies in a row to this
guys question, all directed to the list? No one ever heard of
private-reply? Hell, I replied to him too, but I didn't bother everyone
else on the list with it. Com'on people.. Lets use our brains a little
here. I get too much mail as it is without all this useless stuff that
doesn't benefit me in any way.
-Jason
.............................................. .
. .
. Jason Hoffoss - hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu .
.. http://www.umn.edu/nlhome/g253/hoffo002/ .
... .
:... Author of DMapEdit - A map editor for Doom! .
::... http://www.umn.edu/nlhome/g253/hoffo002/dmapedit/dmapedit.html
------------------------------
From: rpa@info.fundp.ac.be (Renaud Paquay)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 15:16:53 +0200
Subject: Re: Tech Lamps using WinDEU 5.24?
>I never noticed this before this weekend, but WinDEU 5.24 doesn't seem
>able to recognize/use Doom II's medium or tall 'Tech Lamps'.
>
>For example, in MAP06 (The Crusher), there are supposed to be four of
>these 'Tech Lamps' in the control room (the large rectangular room with a
>central island that spews forth demon-spawn when the yellow key-card is
>picked up). Each lamp is set into one of the room's outer walls.
>
>When using WinDEU 5.24 to edit this level, the editor indicates that
>there is indeed a 'Tech lamp' at each of these positions. However,
>when I try to edit the lamps, WinDEU can't find a sprite to associate
>with the name. Furthermore, the 'Tech Lamps' are not available to
>me when I'm creating levels from scratch using WinDEU 5.24. MY IWAD
>is virgin.
>
>I have a level that desperately cries out for a few of these 'Tech Lamps'.
>Can someone out there confirm this deficiency for me?
You're right, WinDEU 5.24 doesn't allow to insert these lamps (there are
some blood and guts things missing, too).
I'm sorry for this, but I forgot to add these before releasing 5.24.
The fact is WinDEU recognize them because I got the Things list from DEU 5.3
beta, but I didn't update the list boxes in the 'edit thing' dialog box.
Anyway, this is fixed in 5.25 (under beta test).
> Also, what is the best way to work around this? (Is there a way to
manually enter the
>THING numbers in WinDEU 5.24?
There's no manual way to enter things number :-(
I think the best solution is to use another editor (DCK ?) to create your level,
add these 2 things somewhere on your new map, and press the 'Insert' key in
Things mode while one of them is selected. This will create a copy of the thing
where the mouse pointer is.
> If not, are _all_ THINGS available through DCK 2.2?)
dunno ...
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Renaud Paquay |
| Member of the DEU team and main WinDEU programmer |
| rpa@info.fundp.ac.be |
| http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~rpa |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 1995 13:09:22 EDT
Subject: Re: multi x1s
"Jason Hoffoss" <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu> ,in message <47783.hoffo002@gold.tc.
umn.edu>, wrote:
> Heh, luckily I do. However, I don't see exactly how such a thing would
> work, and full planning is the first step to adding anything in to any
> editor, at least so it's not a half-ass job or anything. Of what use
> would a prev marked and next marked be exactly? Until I can find an
> answer to that question, it doesn't need to be added in.. :)
Read 3 or 4 messages back. If you have several lines stacked on top of one
another (useful for special effects) then how do you pick them individually?
In the PFME I would just drag to mark objects a region and use shift-N and
shift-P to cycle through next- and prev-marked. (n and p are next and prev
object, ignoring marks). Once highlighted, clear the marks with c and hit
return to edit the highlighted linedef.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #306
**********************************
