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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 302
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #302
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Saturday, 3 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 302
Re: On overlayed line-switches
Textures above 128 in height
Re: "Deep" cielings
Re: On overlayed line-switches
Re: "Deep" cielings
re: on overlayed line-switches
Re: "Deep" cielings
Doom sky
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: thldrmn@neosoft.com (Ty Halderman)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 23:04:35 -0500
Subject: Re: On overlayed line-switches
Drake O'Brien <a13231@mindlink.bc.ca> spake thusly:
>Ok, I get to post today's bit of wierdness --
I thought you were going back to your life :)
>How to do it? My tests have all been on 2 sided linedefs. Form a
>rectangular sector 2 with raised floor inside a sector 1. Let the switch
>side (call it 'A') face north. Now form a bunch of isolate 2 sided lines
>from W to E & have both sidedefs point to sector 1 (this is required, even
>tho' you'll be overlaying these on baseline 'A' which has left sidedef
>pointing to sector 2). Now define the switches as you want (*no* repeat
>switches in there), in the usual way, & start overlaying the isolate lines
>on line 'A'. That's all.
I think that though it may be necessary to put them right on top of each
other in some cases (for sequencing), the thing we mistakenly thought we had
to do (you know, back in the dark ages last week) was to have them at least
17 units apart. This new information tells us that, given type x1 vs xR
linedefs, we can put them at any distance apart including zero if we
understand the order in which they will be triggered.
This should mean that we could line up 8 such lines in front of a wall at
increments of 2 and still only use 16 units of real estate, but not confuse
editors (human and .EXE) by actually putting them in the same spot. DEU
expert mode, for example, would tend to combine them for you quietly.
>The S1 types will activate in the sequence that
>the lines are overlayed, so the 12th lineswitch to be overlayed will be the
>12th one to be activated.
I think I understand that the linedef number is what determines which action
is next to be triggered--please correct me if I'm wrong. It seems that your
(Drake's) testing has worked out that way, and that renumbering a line
(split/combine) would move it to the last-to-be-triggered position of the list.
=-Ty Halderman (thldrmn@neosoft.com)-=
=- Keeper of Things Miscellaneous -=
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun75.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 02 Jun 95 09:56:55+0200
Subject: Textures above 128 in height
No Textures shall have more than 128 in height, because
DOOM will pad every 128.
However, there is a way to prevent this: put a patch of
more than 128 in height, in a texture that has height=128.
This trick is used:
- for the HERETIC external sky (I assume it works for DOOM also)
- in ALIENS-TC (where else :-) for the yellow/black barriers.
Apparently Justin Fisher found that trick long before anyone
else. I found that while converting it to DOOM2.
My counsel: get the Aliens-TC WADs. There is so many tricks
into them that you can't beleive it...
The Arrogant Frog(tm)
------------------------------
From: Patrick Manderson <morgan@indy.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 03:54:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: "Deep" cielings
>
> gotten this same technique to work to make walk-through cielings, or "deep" cielings???
>
>
> Also, I've read alot of texture editing docs, but noone ever explained what happens when
> your texture happens to be above 128 units in height. Is there some mysterious limit there?
>
> -James
>
On one of your post's you mentioned the deep water effect. Could you
please tell how you do that? Is it a Dehacked effect? Could you tell me
please. Thanks in advanced.
morgan@indy.net
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 11:28:59 +0100
Subject: Re: On overlayed line-switches
At 11:04 pm 1/6/95, Ty Halderman wrote (but not as ordered here!):
>
>This new information tells us that, given type x1 vs xR
>linedefs, we can put them at any distance apart including zero if we
>understand the order in which they will be triggered.
>
>I think I understand that the linedef number is what determines which action
>is next to be triggered--please correct me if I'm wrong. It seems that your
>(Drake's) testing has worked out that way, and that renumbering a line
>(split/combine) would move it to the last-to-be-triggered position of the list.
From a "(hyper)theoretical" point of view, this has to be true. There is no
other information in the WAD which will allow DOOM to know what order the
lines were laid down in. DOOM has no notion of lines 'on top of' other
lines: two lines running between the same pair of vertices occupy the exact
same 'space' as each other.
>This should mean that we could line up 8 such lines in front of a wall at
>increments of 2 and still only use 16 units of real estate, but not confuse
>editors (human and .EXE) by actually putting them in the same spot.
>
This is a good point: for S1 type lines (with or without G1 blockers), it
would make the sequencing much easier to control because DOOM always
triggers the line which is closest to the player. Only when there are two
(or more) lines occupying the same space would it need to resolve the order
in some other way (which I'm guessing will just be by line number).
And I'm looking forward to all those WADs that have standard wall switches
which won't work until they've been shot at!! ;)
Of course, for multiple simultaneous Wx triggers the lines will still need
to lie on top of each other, but at least the sequencing is immaterial
here.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 10:09:23 -0800 (PDT)
Subject: Re: "Deep" cielings
>
> gotten this same technique to work to make walk-through cielings,
> or "deep" cielings???
>
I've done something similar to what you're asking using F_SKY without
having to tweak SideDef references:
____________________
|1 |
| ________________ |
| |2 | |
| | ____________ | |
| | |3 | | |
| | | __ | | |
| | | |4 | | | |
| | | |__| | | |
| | | | | |
| | |____________| | |
| | | |
| |________________| |
| |
|____________________|
Sector 1: Ceiling=64 (CEIL5_2), Floor=0
Sector 2: Ceiling=96 (F_SKY), Floor=0
Sector 3: Ceiling=384 (F_SKY), Floor=0
Sector 4: Ceiling=384 (F_SKY), Floor=256
This is a small courtyard with a tall pillar in the center:
Sector 1 is a low lip of a ceiling that rings the courtyard.
The ceiling of Sector 2 is slightly higher than Sector 1 so
that an upper texture can be used to give 'lip' some
vertical depth. Sector 3 is way up there, and Sector 4 is
the pillar.
When walking through this layout, you see the courtyard with a
'lip' ceiling running around its edge. The F_SKY texture
reaches down to the upper edge of the 'lip', giving it a
vertical depth of 32 units. The pillar, which is 256 units high,
reaches up, obviously much higher than the top of the lip.
There is a really interesting mechanism at work here:
Notice that the ceiling of Sector 3 is much higher than that of
Sector 2. Thus an upper texture is required facing into Sector 2
from Sector 3. However, (when using F_SKY) this upper wall-
texture is never displayed. Thus the illusion of having the pillar
reach up to a height much higher than the 'sky' of Sector 2.
Note that I didn't have to do any SideDef sector-reference tweaking
to accomplish this.
You may have to do the same type of tweaking used for the
'deep-water' effect when using textures other than F_SKY.
Cheers,
Brian K.
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (Drake O'Brien)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 95 02:46:15 -0800
Subject: re: on overlayed line-switches
Reply to Ty Halderman's post:
Of course it's more practical to line the suckers up 1 or 2 pixels apart in
front of the wall.... But sometimes I disregard practicalities just for
the bloody hell of it!
As to sequencing, it appears that you're right & wrong, and that I was
wrong. Ha. OK, when you line them up 1 or 2 pixels apart, physical order
determines the order of activation, the closest to the player going off
first & so on in order. But when you overlay them it appears that you're
right, the lowest linedef number fires first, & so on in order of linedef
#.
- --
Drake O'Brien
a13231@mindlink.bc.ca
------------------------------
From: Zachary Martin <zmartin@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: "Deep" cielings
On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Patrick Manderson wrote:
> On one of your post's you mentioned the deep water effect. Could you
> please tell how you do that? Is it a Dehacked effect? Could you tell me
> please. Thanks in advanced.
The deep water effect does not require DeHackEd: it is strictly an
editor effect that takes advantage of the way Doom renders its floors.
The rule is: if you create a sector contained within another sector, and
set BOTH sidedefs of the inner sector's linedefs to reference the inner
sector, then Doom will paint the inner sector's floor at the level of the
surrounding sector. Thus, if the inner sector's floor is lower than the
surrounding sector, you will appear to sink into the floor. If the inner
sector's floor is _higher_ than the surrounding sector, you will appear
to walk on air.
This "swimming pool" effect has been used in all sorts of different ways;
I am using it in the new Aliens-TC WAD I'm working on.
Take a look at:
http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/doom/index.html
Tsackorri
------------------------------
From: Denis.Moeller@kiel.netsurf.de (Denis)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 22:40 GMT
Subject: Doom sky
Hi!
Actually this has nothing to do with advanced editing...
But does someone noticed that the sky of the first episode of Doom
is the Zion-mountain? It's the name of the temple-mountain for a
group of jews in israel (that's what my encyclopedia is saying).
Combined with the swastika in the second episode - id, I think this
was not your best choice...
Just a thought - and it's definitely this mountain.
cya
Denis
[] Denis Moeller, author of NWT v1.3 and TiC's WAD Reviews. []
[] Just play our Doom (2) Add-Ons: Sudtic, Teutic, Obtic. Thanks. []
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End of doom-editing-digest V1 #302
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