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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 322
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #322
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Friday, 23 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 322
Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
Re: A question about DOOM maps
RE: Romero talks Quake with IRC losers
Re: DOOM PACKETS
Re: Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
DM Starting points [was re: DOOM PACKETS ...]
Re: Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
Re: Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
Re: A question about DOOM maps
More DCK questions.
Multi levels to one wad?
Re: simple doom question
Re: Multi levels to one wad?
Re: Multi levels to one wad?
re: Re: DOOM PACKETS
weird walls
Re: A question about DOOM maps
IDDT in Network Games
Re: Multi levels to one wad?
Re: More DCK questions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: zack@smartlink.net (Zack Hobson)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 17:42:05 -0700
Subject: Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
Hey folks...
I'm getting really fed up with this one texture alighnment problem I
can't seem to fix. Here's the scenario:
There is an area with a window between two sheer walls. The entire
area outside the relevant side of the window is one sector, and thus the
same height throughout:
Front View
_____________________________________
|[UNEVEN] |
|_________|
| |
| |
Lower |_________| Lower
Unpegged | | Unpegged
| |[UNEVEN] | |
| | | |
_______V______|_________|______V_____
I've tried all kinds of stuff on the [UNEVEN] sidedef to make it
align vertically, but nothing seems to work properly. I'd like to leave the
adjacent sidedefs lower unpegged for other reasons having to do with the
alignment of the rest of the courtyard, but I'll change that if I absolutely
*HAVE* to.
Anyway, I've tried upper unpegged and lower unpegged both separately
and together, as well as manually adjusting the y offset, with no effect.
I've read "Managing Textures and the 'Unpegged' Attribute" as well as "Doom
Mertics" but they don't seem to help. Please, If anybody knows what I can
do to fix this, e-mail me or post to this list. It's driving me crazy!
ThanX,
Zack Hobson
E-mail: zack@smartlink.net
"The only excuse for creating a useless item is that one
admires it intensely. All art is quite useless."--Oscar Wilde
------------------------------
From: jroberto@on-ramp.ior.com (Jacob Roberto)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 19:23 PDT
Subject: Re: A question about DOOM maps
>Hi all you DOOMers,
>
> I've been making a level of my own with DCK (Doom Construction Kit, the
>best in the world), and I have a few questions about some of the more
>advanced features of level editing. Hopefully someone knows about this stuff.
>
>1. How can I activate a sector to open like a door when enemies are killed?
> In MAP07, four sectors fall when the mancubi are slain. When the spiders
>are killed, a step pops up allowing exit. I think it may have something to
>do with tag numbers 666 and 667, but I can't get it to work elsewhere.
I once tried to make a simple level with a mancubus and a 666-taged sector
and it didn't work. I'm not sure, but try saving your level for map07. Maybe
doom only does those checks in map07 to speed up the game.
>2. Can anyone explain the weird thing that happens in the automap? When
>"M" is pressed, it puts a number (1 to 9 I think) at my current position.
M is the key for mark. It will put a marker number (1 to 9) at your current
location and recycle the number's if they go over 9.
>
>Thanks a lot everyone.
>
>
>
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
' JACOB ROBERTO, ROBERTOSOFT '
' JROBERTO@ON-RAMP.IOR.COM '
' HTTP://WWW.IOR.COM/~GROBERTO/ '
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
------------------------------
From: John Minadeo <jminadeo@cybercon.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 02:23:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Romero talks Quake with IRC losers
On Wed, 21 Jun 1995, Tom Mustaine wrote:
>
> I would be happy if this thread would quickly END. I go off for a week and
> come back
> to see 15 messages with RE: Romero talks with IRC losers. Well, here is a
> news flash for EVERYONE, Romero talks with Lots of people online, from AOL,
> to IRC, to DWANGO. And guess what, If all of those conversations were
> recorded they would cover about the exact same thing that IRC did.
>
> As for the Flame war that has started over this, That dosen't belong on this
> list. Take it to Altdeath Level 1 if you guys are really having a problem here.
>
> The only way you are going to get any technical info about quake is to wait
> for it to come out and pick it apart, or break into Id and steal some source
> code (Not recommended! But would be cool!)
>
I agree, I may only be a passive reader of the list but subject dead. Thanks!
Tom, you were down there, ya shoulda grabbed quake when they were looking
over your signature.
John Minadeo
jminadeo@cybercon.com
------------------------------
From: avatar@widomaker.com (Mackey McCandlish)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 02:56 EDT
Subject: Re: DOOM PACKETS
>BTW, who else thinks it's a shame message strings aren't stored in LMPs? :-)
Yes, very much so, but I can understand why (as DOOM recieving
commands, like LEFT and FIRE and such, not actual key presses like L and R.
Big difference). LMPs'd probably be a lot more interesting that way tho.. my
big grudge with them is that they don't save when there's a consistency
failure, nor can you jump to any point in them (Shouldn't DOOM be able to
play them back without the video (as fast as possible) so you could jump to
a certain point in the lmp?).
>Alden Bates. (Who wants to have an LMP editor to insert comments in his
>LMPs... :-)
Yeah..
-*The Avatar*-
http://www.widomaker.com./~avatar
(Nifty pics of DMF there, too).
ftp: ftp.widomaker.com in pub/avatar
The key to ONE MUST FALL is knowing who the 17 hit combos
work on..
DOOM MUST FALL IS OUT! Get it from my home page or ftp site!
------------------------------
From: Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 09:03:57 BST
Subject: Re: Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
> I've tried all kinds of stuff on the [UNEVEN] sidedef to make it
> align vertically, but nothing seems to work properly. I'd like to leave
> the adjacent sidedefs lower unpegged for other reasons having to do with
> the alignment of the rest of the courtyard, but I'll change that if I
> absolutely *HAVE* to.
I'm guessing that the height of the walls to either side is not a multiple
of the texture height.
Essentially, you will not be able to do it as you say (unless I'm missing
something :) ), but if I'm correct, you do not plan on moving those walls,
so it doesn't make much difference whether they're unpegged or just y-
shifted.
My advice is therefore to unpeg both upper and lower on the window line,
then y-shift the two walls and the window by the same amount. Eg if the
texture is 128 high, and the walls 100 high, to fit with your picture you
would unpeg the window (upper and lower), then y-shift all sidedefs by
28.
Byeeeee,
Bob.
...Backups? I don't need no backups...
------------------------------
From: Denis.Moeller@kiel.netsurf.de (Denis)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 11:46 GMT
Subject: DM Starting points [was re: DOOM PACKETS ...]
Hi!
What gives Doom the order of the starting points, I mean, is it the order
the editor placed the starting points or is it refered to the X,Y position?
Let's collect all characteristics of deathmatch-games...
Couldn't it be like this: The starting points are in a special order, like
in an array, the place to respawn changes every second due to the pointer
to one of the positions. This would come with the limit of 10 starting
points (simply this array has the limit of 10 values) and it IS possible
to respawn at the same place twice - if you die fast enough...
The random-factor of it would be the fact that, IF you would be killed
every 10 seconds you would respawn at the same place. No random at all.
However, it's unknown how much time passes from one point to another, so
10 seconds is not the right time - I'm quite sure. Maybe you game-ticks
specialists are more familar with that.
Additionally this would fit perfectly with the LMPs - there is no need
to transfer positions, not even the pointer of this array, because both
'counters/pointers' are running exactly the same.
Btw - did anyone ever get fragged by a respawning player? If not Doom
has to check if the landing point is 'visited' by another player and if so,
it would move the pointer or just wait the time to the next value...
(the latter is better...)
>Does anyone know exactly how the deathmatch starts are selected? IE, so
>when making a level, you can tell what sequence of spots the players will
>start at?
Presuming that the theory above is ok (arrogant, I know...) - simple.
Both games (presuming 2 player deathmatch) start their 'counter' for the
array of starting points right after checking the network-game status.
The time it needs to set up the display etc. will decide which starting
point to use. I mean - even two machines with the same hardware will not
load Doom exactly the same. Not random, but DIFFERENT enough.
And IF both computers run nearly at the same speed the second player will
simply 'wait' one counter-hopping.
This would confirm the idea of that the start-up starting points of the
same machines are mostly the same.
cya
Denis
[] Denis Moeller, author of NWT v1.3 and TiC's WAD Reviews. []
[] Just play our Doom (2) Add-Ons: Sudtic, Teutic, Obtic. Thanks. []
------------------------------
From: VGCB02A@prodigy.com (MR WESLEY N FREDRICK)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 04:51:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
> and together, as well as manually adjusting the y offset, with no effect.
> I've read "Managing Textures and the 'Unpegged' Attribute" as well as "Doom
> Mertics" but they don't seem to help. Please, If anybody knows what I can
> do to fix this, e-mail me or post to this list. It's driving me crazy!
I'm not sure about this, but in editors I used to use the alignment
functions drove me nuts because they never did what I needed. Since I have
used DCK v2.2, alignment has been surprisingly easy. I've aligned stuff
with DCK that I never thought would work out. I think the problem I had
with other editors was that they wouldn't align upper and lower textures.
Maybe if you tried DCK (Doom Construction Kit) it would work out.
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 12:54:15 +0100
Subject: Re: Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
At 5:42 pm 21/6/95, Zack Hobson wrote:
> I'm getting really fed up with this one texture alighnment problem I
>can't seem to fix. Here's the scenario:
> There is an area with a window between two sheer walls. The entire
>area outside the relevant side of the window is one sector, and thus the
>same height throughout:
>
> Front View
>_____________________________________
> |[UNEVEN] |
> |_________|
> | |
> | |
> Lower |_________| Lower
> Unpegged | | Unpegged
> | |[UNEVEN] | |
> | | | |
> _______V______|_________|______V_____
>
> I've tried all kinds of stuff on the [UNEVEN] sidedef to make it
>align vertically, but nothing seems to work properly. I'd like to leave the
>adjacent sidedefs lower unpegged for other reasons having to do with the
>alignment of the rest of the courtyard, but I'll change that if I absolutely
>*HAVE* to.
> Anyway, I've tried upper unpegged and lower unpegged both separately
>and together, as well as manually adjusting the y offset, with no effect.
>I've read "Managing Textures and the 'Unpegged' Attribute" as well as "Doom
>Mertics" but they don't seem to help. Please, If anybody knows what I can
>do to fix this, e-mail me or post to this list. It's driving me crazy!
OK - Steve's low down on texture alignment. Texture alignment is complex
and could fill a couple of dozen pages of a book (it does: ADVERT) but here
is a quick guide.
Textures are normally placed
1. from the top of a normal texture down
2. from the bottom of an upper texture up
& 3. from the top of a lower texture down
The Unpegged flags change this as follows:
Upper unpegged makes upper texture be placed from ceiling down.
Lower unpegged makes lower texture be placed from _ceiling_ down (but
clipped to the lower texture's area) _and_ main texture be placed from top of
lower texture up.
X- and Y- offsets are applied after pegging and move texture left/right
(negative X= left) or up/down (negative Y=down) fro precise control over
alignment.
So, how to use this? Here's a crude summary:-
Over windows: set upper unpegged to make upper texture align with adjacent wall;
Under windows: set lower unpegged to make lower texture align with adjacent
wall;
In large rooms, make a recess to hold doors (a sector between the room
sector and the door sector) and treat this the same as windows - this lets
you have wall texture over the face of the door;
On doors, you cannot unpeg the upper or the door won't look right as it
opens. This doesn't matter on standard doors, but for secret doors you need
to make allowance for the fact that the door face is an upper texture
(aligned from floor up) and the adjacent wall is a main, (aligned from the
ceiling). The correct Y offset to apply here then is (room height - pattern
height) where pattern hight is the size of the texture in use -- usually
128.
On the inside reveals of windows and door recesses, you will have to take
the difference in height between the main room and the recess into account
- -- DOOM is unaware of the main room's texture alignment when it paints the
reveals, so you'll have to do all the math yourself. The equation for
standard painting is Y-offset = (main room ceiling level - recess ceiling
level) For patterns like STONE2 which have a 32 pixel pattern repeat, you
can use Y-offset = (main room ceiling level - recess ceiling level) mod
(pattern repeat) to give you a value that is easier to apply.
On the side of door sectors, you need to have the lower unpegged flag set
to stop the sides moving with the doors -- this flag makes the texture
align from the floor up, remember: that's what stops it moving. This makes
for awkward texture alignment sometimes, because you need to combime the
maths for door faces with the maths for reveals! It's usually easier to
make sure you use DOORTRAK, or some other texture that doesn't need any
aligning!
Remember also:-
Upper and lower textures are NEVER used on lines not flagged as two-sided
(even if they really are);
main textures on two-sided lines NEVER repeat vertically.
In your case you will probably have problems because you will almost
certainly need a different Y-offset applied to the upper texture from the
one needed for the lower. Try tweaking the size of the window opening to
sort that out, or just cheat by using a random type wall texture around the
window. Or build a thin recess sector between the main room sector and the
window sector so that you can fudge the upper and lower texture sizes to
provide better alignment.
Hope this helps
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: AFree120@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 10:49:24 -0400
Subject: Re: A question about DOOM maps
That 1-9 placed in the automap when you hit "M" is a mark. It's for getting
back to that spot later.
------------------------------
From: AFree120@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 11:02:44 -0400
Subject: More DCK questions.
Why is it that DCK2.2 will crash every so often? Is this just with me using
it or has anyone else had this happen. BMORRIS hasn't answered his mail in
weeks (creator of DCK).
Sometimes it works for an hour then sometimes it crashes after a few minutes.
What should I rem out to bypass this?
Has anyone gotten the book-DOOMII Totally Unauthorized Guide by Robert E.
Waring? It comes with a Level editor on a disk. The wacky thing is after
reading all the hype on the cover about the editor etc. I purchase the book
and find out that the editor will not save! You have to send more $$$ for the
complete version. What a ripoff! Otherwise the book and what I can see of the
editor works great!
------------------------------
From: Robnoxious@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 12:38:17 -0400
Subject: Multi levels to one wad?
Does anyone know of a utility that will allow me to take several single wad
files and combine them into one wad file? Preferably for DOOOM2.
If so tell me where I can find it. (FTP site, BBS etc.)
Thanks
------------------------------
From: AFree120@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 12:54:44 -0400
Subject: Re: simple doom question
Thanks ROB. I do have a list of line types (Special). I'll try it.
Where do I get this ENDOOMER info?
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 13:27:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Multi levels to one wad?
> From: Robnoxious@AOL.COM
> Reply-To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
>
>
> Does anyone know of a utility that will allow me to take several single wad
> files and combine them into one wad file? Preferably for DOOOM2.
> If so tell me where I can find it. (FTP site, BBS etc.)
> Thanks
<<<Flame-thrower Safety back on>>>
This is an inappropriate question for this list, however, there are
plenty of them around. Try ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/level_edit.
In the future direct questions of this complexity to:
Steve Benner : S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
Prefix the subject with a WQ: for fastest processing.
I appologize for addressing this on the list but, it seems that more
and more beginner (read: not advanced) threads have been creeping up.
Maybe Steve's Weekly reminder could use a stronger Subject line.
Have a good day,
johnw
__________________________________________________________
#include <stupidstuff.h>
#define USER "johnw" /* John Wakelin */
/* Johnw@datametrics.com */
main() /* (703) 385 7700 */
{
while (isstupid(USER)) ignore(USER);
}
------------------------------
From: d.greer@ix.netcom.com (Jon Greer)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 12:06:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Multi levels to one wad?
You wrote:
>
>
>Does anyone know of a utility that will allow me to take several
single wad
>files and combine them into one wad file? Preferably for DOOOM2.
>If so tell me where I can find it. (FTP site, BBS etc.)
>Thanks
>
Try wadcat, it is included with waded 1.83beta. I have used it and it
works fine.
Doug Greer
------------------------------
From: Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 8:03:57 CDT
Subject: re: Re: DOOM PACKETS
I guess I am going to have to hack alittle ;)
I think I know how to do it though ....
In the IPXSETUP code .... it gives you the source on the IPX ISR driver,
which in turn gives me my entery point for dumping the packets to disk
while the game is being played ... I kinda figured I would have to
at least do this code hack to get the DOOM packet data into a file for
later viewing .... then I would just try and remebr what keys I hit
and what bits change in the data .... Knowing what the bits actually
mean would help ... oh well ... I guess I got some playing to do !!!! ;)
I will be glad to post my finding if anyone is interested ....
Steve Cox
------------------------------
From: pdavy@taranaki.ac.nz
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 08:35:23+130
Subject: weird walls
Hi
I've ended up with a couple of walls on a hallway that let bullets, BFG fire
etc through although they are impassable to everything else. They look solid
and I've changed the textures several times and flagged them impassable to
everything but they still let ALL weapon fire through. The monsters seem to
know that you are there too because they shoot THROUGH the solid wall at you,
even though I've flagged the walls to block sound.
regards
Peter Davy (New Zealand)
pdavy@taranaki.ac.nz
------------------------------
From: helmberg@li01.ad.or.at (Florian Helmberger)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 23:01:00 +0200
Subject: Re: A question about DOOM maps
At 14:26 21.06.1995 EDT, MR WESLEY N FREDRICK wrote:
>1. How can I activate a sector to open like a door when enemies are killed?
No way :( - well, except for Map 07...
> In MAP07, four sectors fall when the mancubi are slain. When the spiders
>are killed, a step pops up allowing exit. I think it may have something to
>do with tag numbers 666 and 667, but I can't get it to work elsewhere.
This works *only* on Map 07 - and ONLY there!
>2. Can anyone explain the weird thing that happens in the automap? When
>"M" is pressed, it puts a number (1 to 9 I think) at my current position.
Marks current position - maybe the most useless thing in DOOM :)
- -Florian
___________________________________________________________________________
Florian Helmberger e-mail : helmberg@li01.ad.or.at
Himmelpfortgasse 10/6 KaraNet : DOOM Maniac
1010 Vienna Office : +43-1-812 13 40
Austria, EU Private : +43-1-513 11 36
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
------------------------------
From: mustaine@usa.net (Tom Mustaine)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 15:30:49 -0600
Subject: IDDT in Network Games
I am not sure if this has already hit this list or not, But how many people
are aware of the Network Cheat codes for Doom/Doom II in all versions up to
1.8? I was very upset when this little trinket of info was layed upon me in
a net game on dwango. Some dude was kickin my ass all over the place (and
shouldn't have been) when after the game he revealed that he was cheating
with the Alt-IDDT network cheat code, which allows other players to see
where their opponents are in Deathmatch. I know Id removed this Cheat from
version 1.9 (mabye they were worried about losing customers on dwango)
But I would like to ask them directly:
WHY did you put a network cheat code in Doom?
Didn't want to get beat at your own game?!
Anyhow, This has been a well known fact for a while on network gaming
servers, I would like to know who has run across it on doom-editing.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tom Mustaine - Core MMI 1995 Paradox/Clock Paradox/TWM2029@aol.com |
| Doom2 Master - Doom2 Speedy Gonzales - Doom2 Grand Master |
+--{Coming Soon The Web Page to End All Web Pages! Watch This Space!}-+
______/ _____/ _____/ _____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ __/
__/ __/__/ __/ __/ ____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/'95
______/ _____/ __/ _____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/
------------------------------
From: Robnoxious@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 19:10:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Multi levels to one wad?
Excuse the piss outta me!
I just wanted a fast answer and thought I'd ask the so called experts.
So go back to your closets and your lame p-wads, fuck heads.
------------------------------
From: sheaslip@ix.netcom.com (Stephen Heaslip)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 15:38:13 -0700
Subject: Re: More DCK questions.
>Why is it that DCK2.2 will crash every so often? Is this just with me using
>it or has anyone else had this happen. BMORRIS hasn't answered his mail in
>weeks (creator of DCK).
>
>Sometimes it works for an hour then sometimes it crashes after a few minutes.
> What should I rem out to bypass this?
>
Rem out nothing. You need to download DCK version 2.2F, available on
cd-rom.com among other places. As the text file accompanying the program
states, the problem you're experiencing stems from an (apparently)
unacknowledged bug in Borland C+++++++ (or is that 8 pluses?). Version F (I
have no Idea why F maybe "F" Borland?) is specifically to fix this crashing
problem, which, BTW, apparently doen't affect all machines (mine for instance).
- --
"Bond, James Bond"
- -Bond, James Bond
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #322
**********************************
