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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 349
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #349
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Monday, 17 July 1995 Volume 01 : Number 349
Re: MIDI Files
'Split' sector bug
Re: How Much Stuff
Re: How Much Stuff
Re: How Much Stuff
Re: 'Split' sector bug
Re: How Much Stuff
Re: MIDI Files
Off Topic DEU Question
WINDEU
Re: MIDI Files
Re: WINDEU
Re: WINDEU
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jester@nbnet.nb.ca (Brian Cowan)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 21:09:04 -0300
Subject: Re: MIDI Files
>On Thu, 13 Jul 95 SWassell@sv.span.com (Stephen Wassell) said:
>
>
>>In article ** unknown ** you write:
>>>>>If u have a SB (i assume u do if your asking for them :) ) then u can
>>record
>>>>>them yourself using a Sound Recorder from Win and hooking up a cassete
>>>>>player of CD player to your computer. It records as WAVs, but you can
>>>>>convert them or use a MIDI program.
>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>
>>>>I keep hearing about this apparently impossible task; how could you
>convert
>>>>raw sound data (WAV format) to MIDI (which is a kind of PostScript for
>>>>music)? Can you give us the name of the program that does this?
>>>
>>> Well, no, I do not know the name of the program. It was on a
>local
>>>BBS and I was browsing thru, and saw a WAV-> MIDI converter. I did not
>pick
>>>it up at the time, since i was looking for a MOD player, but there was
>one
>>>there. That was about a month ago. I have no idea where it is now :(.
>It
>>>probably DID NOT work, but I did see one. Probably just a bad attempt
>:)..
>>>Well, TTYL. BTW, do u know where I can get some good fast MIDI (White
>>>Zombie, Metallica, or maybe Pink Floyd, even tho PF isnt fast, they r my
>>>favorite group :)) . Thanx
>>
>>This cannot be done! .wav to .mod, .mid to .wav, but definately not .wav
>to
>>.mid. About finding .mid files (you need midi2mus to put them in Doom
>btw),
>>there are a few usenet groups where they get posted. Look around!
>
>What if you converted your wav file to a midi patch? You could then just
>sequence it into a mid file with a midi editor such as cakewalk (there's
>something called wlyra out there that's free and does the same thing.) If
>you have a midi-capable sampling keyboard you can just sample the sound
>into the keyboard instead of converting it, and then using your new
>"instrument patch" in the composition.
>
>
>
Can u convert .VOC to .MOD or .MID ? I want to record a bass song
that I made on my bass guitar into te computer and use it as my music for my
upcoming DOOM2 WAD (Toy Factory - toyfact.wad).
Does anyone have a cool picture of a truck that I could use for my
highway graphic in Toyfact.wad ? It would preferrably be a toy looking truck
, or a toy fire truck or something. But a good pic of a real truck would be
fine. As long as its reasonably small and can be added to DOOM II. Fanx
-Britton
------------------------------
From: spillner@imsa.edu
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 02:23:48 -0500
Subject: 'Split' sector bug
I've recently started getting a strange bug in a deathmatch wad I've
been building. A couple of the sectors have started getting 'split' by
thin triangular black slices that are apparently not in any sector. The
base of the triangle is one linedef of the sector, and the vertex is the
player. If a triangle is lined up right with another sector, it is even possilbe to 'fall in' and get trapped. The strange thing is that I have run the level
through about half a dozen quality editors, and none have been able to fix
it. Usually deleting the offending sector & linedef corrects the problem,
but not always. IT doesn't appera to be overlapping sectors, miscreated
sectors, incorrect sidedefs, etc. I looked in all the faqs and couldn't find
any info on anything even vaguely resembling this problem, so I figured I'd
post. Is this really an uncommon error, or am I just lucky to have never
seen it before? Does anyopne have any suggestions for avoiding it or correcting
it without a lot of hassle? How about suggestions for an editor/level checker
that can detetect it?
Thanx in advance,
Brent Spillner
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:55:07 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: How Much Stuff
On Sat, 15 Jul 1995, Scott Jordan wrote:
> I've analysed D1 and found that id's WAD data shows some pretty
> consistent results. I use these results for WAD building.
What about Co-op? It looks to me like all ID does is stick in an extra
Cyberdemon or so. :-)
The general rule I came up with was to use Ultra-violence for Co-op games
and have the same amount of monsters for the lower levels as in single
play, for deathmatch...
Alden Bates. (Cyberdemons can get messy on the players.)
------------------------------
From: "quester@topnet.nl" <quester@topnet.nl>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:47:18 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: How Much Stuff
/----------------------------------------------------------------\
| quester@topnet.nl | UUD - Member |
| Amon Endt | Irc #UUD |
| The Hague, Holland | WWW Home Page : http://bart.nl/~shadow |
\----------------------------------------------------------------/
Heya!
On Sat, 15 Jul 1995, Scott Jordan wrote:
> I've gotten into WAD making recently and have developed a method to use as
> a starting point for determining how much Health, Armor, and Ammo to put
> in a WAD based on how many monster damage points are present on a given
> level.
he nice program, can you upload it on a major FTP site?
>
> Before I go in to a big (and possibly boring) discussion, I wanted to
> poll the group and see what people have used to determine how many
> goodies to scatter through a WAD and to see if anyone was even interested.
>
> Any comments?
Well add a feature wich shows the number of starting points like
deathmatch and coop points, I really hate it when I start a lvl and there
are not enought spots.
> Say, did you know that the silicon in your 486 chip costs only about
> $3.00?
>
I hoped they sell it for the same price ;)
> Scott
>
> *Purveyor of CMOS Epi*
>
>
>
Quester
------------------------------
From: Mike Duggan <mduggan@ram.ramlink.net>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 07:15:00 -0400
Subject: Re: How Much Stuff
Where can one get this wonderful program for determining the ratios?
------------------------------
From: ind01222@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Scott Osborne)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 09:04 EDT
Subject: Re: 'Split' sector bug
>
> I've recently started getting a strange bug in a deathmatch wad I've
>been building. A couple of the sectors have started getting 'split' by
>thin triangular black slices that are apparently not in any sector. The
[snip]
>it without a lot of hassle? How about suggestions for an editor/level checker
>that can detetect it?
>
>Thanx in advance,
> Brent Spillner
>
It sounds like the node builder may be to blame; I've had similar problems
on a few occassions from a faulty node build. I just fixed the sector
manually or ran it through BSP (which comes with DCK, the editor I've been
using) again, and that solved the problem. WARM is supposed to be a good
node builder as well.
If you're creating a sector within a sector, wherein they will share common
lines, make sure that each line that is to be joined has the same number of
vertices, and then join them all. Otherwise you can get the effect you
described.
==========================================================================
+ Scott Osborne + Never forget: +
+ ind01222@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu + we walk on hell, +
+ http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~ind01222/ + gazing at flowers. +
+ University of Central Florida + --Issa +
==========================================================================
------------------------------
From: ind01222@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Scott Osborne)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 09:20 EDT
Subject: Re: How Much Stuff
>Before I go in to a big (and possibly boring) discussion, I wanted to
>poll the group and see what people have used to determine how many
>goodies to scatter through a WAD and to see if anyone was even interested.
As one fairly new to WAD creation, I'm very interested in this, as the thing
which took the most time and thought (and playtesting) on my last level was
getting the balance right.
>Any comments?
>The method I use has been incorporated into a program which Bill McClendon
>has been kind enough to test. It looks at how many monsters you have on a
>given degree of difficulty; totals monster damage points, health points,
>armor points, and weapon damage points; then lists the ratios of these
>with respect to monster damage points.
Is this program going to be publically available? Sounds great.
>The other thing you get is an indication of the monster quantity
>difference id used for the different degrees of difficulty: Easy uses 50%
>less than Medium, Hard uses 50% more monsters than Medium.
> Scott
I find this very interesting. It seems to me that a possibly more effective
way to do this would be to concentrate on the type of monsters more than the
number, especially with Doom2, where you have greater variety. Four shotgun
sergeants just mean more shells for an experienced player, whereas two
commandos can be a real nuisance if they surprise the player. Similarly,
gearing the monsters to the terrain can make a huge difference. A bunch of
imps in a large, open area are mainly just an annoyance, whereas a revenant,
whose rockets can do 360s in such spaces, could cause some grief for the
player (especially if there are barrels laying around). If the player's
stuck on a small ledge over waste or lava, a single pain elemental or just a
few lost souls could cause some real problems if the player is low on ammo.
I think that concentrating on the type of monster can also be an effective
way to go if your WAD is a large one. Adding 50% more monsters for
Ultra-Violence could possibly slow it down.
Of course, decimating countless imps can be fun :) (Witness e2m2 on
Ultra-Violence.)
As far as object placement (health, etc.), I've just roughly estimated
what's needed based on my experience as a player and then tested it. Not a
very efficient way to go about it. If anyone has more suggestions on this,
please post them. Thanks.
==========================================================================
+ Scott Osborne + Never forget: +
+ ind01222@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu + we walk on hell, +
+ http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~ind01222/ + gazing at flowers. +
+ University of Central Florida + --Issa +
==========================================================================
------------------------------
From: "C. Sheldon" <sheldonc@acy.digex.net>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 09:46:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: MIDI Files
On Sat, 15 Jul 1995, Gerald Hannafin wrote:
>
> What if you converted your wav file to a midi patch? You could then just
> sequence it into a mid file with a midi editor such as cakewalk (there's
> something called wlyra out there that's free and does the same thing.) If
> you have a midi-capable sampling keyboard you can just sample the sound
> into the keyboard instead of converting it, and then using your new
> "instrument patch" in the composition.
>
That would work if only YOU wanted to use the wad your creating,
but with the plethera of sound cards out there, its unlikely that a large
percentage of people would be about to use your wad. Most people don't
have a Wavetable card anyway and rely on fm synthesis which CAN'T do what
you described, even if you do have a wave table card, if its an addon
card like the wavebalster, you can't upload your own patches to it.
Everyone would have to be useing an AWE-32 or a Gus, or some High end
card. Even if everyone did have the capability of patching their
wavetables, you'd have to look long and hard for someone who wantes to go
through this complicated procedure just to play a wad.
Later Days-
Cliff Sheldon
AKA: DrWu @ #Doom "Where the players meet"
[DISCLAIMER: MICROSOFT NETWORK IS PROHIBITED FROM DISTRIBUTING THIS WORK ]
[IN ANYFORM. COPYRIGHT, 1995. LICENSE TO DISTRIBUTE THIS POST IS AVAILABLE]
[TO MICROSOFT FOR $1,000: ALL OTHERS ARE FREE. PLEASE SEND NOTICES OF ]
[VIOLATION TO POSTMASTER@MICROSOFT.COM AND SHELDONC@ACY.DIGEX.NET. ]
------------------------------
From: John Minadeo <jminadeo@nforce.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:50:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Off Topic DEU Question
I apologize that this is slightly off topic, so if you could direct any
responses to PRIVATE EMAIL...
Problem is, I can't get the level editor section of DEU to work... I have
a VESA compatable card but it just generates a blank screen or bombs with
bad video mode. (I've tried all the resolutions). Is there a VESA driver
guaraunteed to work with DEU and a STB Horizon card? I"m not a video guru
so it might just me by bad. I've checked the documentation for deu and
still can't get it to work. Has anyone had this problem and been able to
fix it, if so, How? Thanks again, and now back to Advanced Doom Editing.
PLEASE DIRECT ALL RESPONSES TO PRIVATE EMAIL (Flames included)
- --------------------------------------------
John Minadeo | This Space For Rent |
jminadeo@nforce.com | |
C, C++, Perl, | |
DooM | |
- --------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Scott Jordan <sjordan@wins0.win.org>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:52:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: WINDEU
I may be missing something. What are the benefits to level editting under
Windows? I'd always assumed that you had to shut down Win to test under
the DOOM OS.
Scott
*Purveyor of CMOS Epi*
------------------------------
From: Ryan Drake <nccs1@farside.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:52:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: MIDI Files
On Sat, 15 Jul 1995, Brian Cowan wrote:
> Can u convert .VOC to .MOD or .MID ? I want to record a bass song
[SNIP]
No! VOC, MOD, and MID are three completely different formats. You can
*NOT* accurately convert between them.
MID: Midi sequences are a bunch of notes, controller effects, etc that
when played through a midi device, are translated into acutal
sounds (instruments). These instruments are built into
midi device and cannot be (easily) changed. You cannot have
any kind of instrument in a midi file that is not one of the
standard instrument patches.
MOD/S3M: These are Similar to MIDs in the fact that they are collections
of notes and effects, but differ because the
"instruments" they use are non-standard. You can record your
guitar samples and use them as "instruments." There is no
perfect way to convert from MOD to MID because MIDIs use their
OWN instrument patches.
VOC/WAV: This is as close as you can get to a RAW sound file. VOCs and
WAVs are like tape recordings. No matter what you try,
you cannot (without lots of nifty and expensive equipment)
take them apart into the different instruments, etc. Try
to "extract" the guitar riffs from the other instruments
on your Metallica tape. It cannot be done. Waves are not
collections of notes and cannot be converted into MODs or MIDs
I hope this clears a few things up.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ->Ryan Drake<- "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
[eMAiL] nccs1@farside.gsfc.nasa.gov But I have promises to keep.
[URL] --to be announced-- And miles to go before I sleep."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: rpa@info.fundp.ac.be
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 22:19:12 MET DST
Subject: Re: WINDEU
Hello guys,
This is my first mail to this list.
I'm not a good level designer, but I think I can reply this mail
(I'm the main author of WinDEU and member of the DEU team).
> I may be missing something. What are the benefits to level editting under
> Windows?
Well, just compare the user interface of DEU 5.21 and WinDEU 5.24.
Then, honnestly, tell me which one is the nicer and easier to use...
Let's take a look at WinDEU 5.24, 32-bit version:
- - It uses the flat memory model (meaning it's AT LEAST as fast as
the DOS based editor with a 32-bit extender).
- - The windows and dialog boxes are managed by Windows. I don't think
many DOS programmer can code a better GUI.
- - All the graphics routines uses your video drivers (which means
it's VERY fast with accelerated video cards).
- - (add here other windows advantages you may find).
Finaly, a general remark:
What are the benefits of Word processing, CAD/CAM drawing, spreadsheets
under Windows ?
> I'd always assumed that you had to shut down Win to test under
> the DOOM OS.
That's not true. I'm able to run WinDEU and DOOM in a DOS box. The
only limitation is I have to turn off Sound and Joystick support in DOOM.
Otherwise, it works well (I suppose it will work even better under Win95).
Renaud Paquay
DEU TEAM member
------------------------------
From: Phunnel@AOL.COM
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:12:50 -0400
Subject: Re: WINDEU
Windeu works very well in Win95. I myself are a beta tester, and the Windows
interface has been so finetuned that everything is at you fingertips. DOOM,
DEU and other Games and Utilites run faster than in DOS.
Just my $.02 worth.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #349
**********************************
