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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 323
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #323
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Friday, 23 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 323
Re: weird walls
re: Re: DOOM PACKETS
RE: Romero talks Quake with IRC losers
Thanks Doug!
Re: More DCK questions.
Re: IDDT in Network Games
Re: A question about DOOM maps
Re: Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
Re: simple doom question
Re: weird walls
Re: A question about DOOM maps
Re: DM Starting points [was re: DOOM PACKETS ...]
Re: IDDT in Network Games
*NOT* THE WEEKLY REMINDER: Beginners' questions
Re: DM Starting points [was re: DOOM PACKETS ...]
Re: A question about DOOM maps
Questions to mull upon
Re: IDDT in Network Games
Re: DM Starting points [was re: DOOM PACKETS ...]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Raphael.Quinet@aachen.eed.ericsson.se
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 01:32:32 +0200
Subject: Re: weird walls
On Fri, 23 Jun 95 08:35:23+130, pdavy@taranaki.ac.nz wrote:
>
> I've ended up with a couple of walls on a hallway that let bullets, BFG fire
> etc through although they are impassable to everything else. They look solid
> and I've changed the textures several times and flagged them impassable to
> everything but they still let ALL weapon fire through. The monsters seem to
> know that you are there too because they shoot THROUGH the solid wall at you,
> even though I've flagged the walls to block sound.
>
Hmmm... I think you should read the various tutorials and documents that
explain the WAD structure. I recommend the Unofficial Doom Specs by Matt
Fell (dmspec16.zip) and the Doom Level Design FAQ by Tom Neff (design12.faq).
ANY two-sided line (like your walls) will let projectiles go through it,
regardless of the value of the flags or textures. Usually, the texture on
these two-sided lines is set to transparent, because they should not be used
for walls unless you want to create "false walls".
Any "real" wall in Doom is made of two one-sided lines separated by void
space. It is an error to use two-sided lines for this.
- -Raphael
P.S.: I wish more people would use the useful "message filtering" service
provided by Steve Benner...
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 19:39:06 -0500
Subject: re: Re: DOOM PACKETS
At 08:03 AM 6/21/95, doom-editing@nvg.unit.no wrote:
>I guess I am going to have to hack alittle ;)
>
>I think I know how to do it though ....
>
>In the IPXSETUP code .... it gives you the source on the IPX ISR driver,
>which in turn gives me my entery point for dumping the packets to disk
>while the game is being played ... I kinda figured I would have to
>at least do this code hack to get the DOOM packet data into a file for
>later viewing .... then I would just try and remebr what keys I hit
>and what bits change in the data .... Knowing what the bits actually
>mean would help ... oh well ... I guess I got some playing to do !!!! ;)
>
>
> I will be glad to post my finding if anyone is interested ....
I have een following this thread for a while, and if I understand
it all correctly, I think id did the work for you :(. Isn't there commented
out code in xxxSETUP.EXE for what id calls "drones" whoch can roam the level,
but not interact? If so, what about getting these to work?
I dont know of the code is still there, but I remember reading about this
a few months ago in a FAQ.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: mustaine@usa.net (Tom Mustaine)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 15:30:43 -0600
Subject: RE: Romero talks Quake with IRC losers
>On Wed, 21 Jun 1995, Tom Mustaine wrote:
>
>>
>> I would be happy if this thread would quickly END. I go off for a week and
>> come back
>> to see 15 messages with RE: Romero talks with IRC losers. Well, here is a
>> news flash for EVERYONE, Romero talks with Lots of people online, from AOL,
>> to IRC, to DWANGO. And guess what, If all of those conversations were
>> recorded they would cover about the exact same thing that IRC did.
>>
>> As for the Flame war that has started over this, That dosen't belong on this
>> list. Take it to Altdeath Level 1 if you guys are really having a
problem here.
>>
>> The only way you are going to get any technical info about quake is to wait
>> for it to come out and pick it apart, or break into Id and steal some source
>> code (Not recommended! But would be cool!)
>>
>I agree, I may only be a passive reader of the list but subject dead. Thanks!
>
>Tom, you were down there, ya shoulda grabbed quake when they were looking
>over your signature.
>
>John Minadeo
>jminadeo@cybercon.com
I wish! But I figured about the time I got a disk in one of those PC's down
there, Romero would grab that famous axe that chopped open his door and
split me in half!
Everyone should see the Id office though, It Rules! Life size arch-viles
standing around, every doom and wolf-3d product ever made, 5 PC with 20"
monitors in every office. Valhala!
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tom Mustaine - Core MMI 1995 Paradox/Clock Paradox/TWM2029@aol.com |
| Doom2 Master - Doom2 Speedy Gonzales - Doom2 Grand Master |
+--{Coming Soon The Web Page to End All Web Pages! Watch This Space!}-+
______/ _____/ _____/ _____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ __/
__/ __/__/ __/ __/ ____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/'95
______/ _____/ __/ _____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/
------------------------------
From: Robnoxious@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 21:05:51 -0400
Subject: Thanks Doug!
Thank you for responding with an answer and not a complaint!
------------------------------
From: VGCB02A@prodigy.com (MR WESLEY N FREDRICK)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 21:26:42 EDT
Subject: Re: More DCK questions.
>Why is it that DCK2.2 will crash every so often? Is this just with me >using
>it or has anyone else had this happen. BMORRIS hasn't answered his mail >in
>weeks (creator of DCK).
>Sometimes it works for an hour then sometimes it crashes after a few >minutes.
> What should I rem out to bypass this?
I've experienced many crashes, too. It used to crash unpredictably in even
simple functions, totally random. I got a bug fix from "ftp.cdrom.com" and
those don't happen anymore. I was still having crashes, though, when it
would build nodes. I thought it might have something to do with the stairs
function, cause everytime I would erase the stairs and do them manually, it
would work again. And the same kind of crash happened with all the other
BSP builders I could find. I haven't had another crash in a while, I don't
really know why except for the bug fix and doing stairs manually. Does AOL
have ftp access? The name of the bug fix is DCK22-f.ZIP.
------------------------------
From: ac660@detroit.freenet.org (David R. Pierson)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 23:32:55 -0400
Subject: Re: IDDT in Network Games
>
>I am not sure if this has already hit this list or not, But how many people
>are aware of the Network Cheat codes for Doom/Doom II in all versions up to
>1.8? I was very upset when this little trinket of info was layed upon me in
>a net game on dwango. Some dude was kickin my ass all over the place (and
>shouldn't have been) when after the game he revealed that he was cheating
>with the Alt-IDDT network cheat code, which allows other players to see
>where their opponents are in Deathmatch. I know Id removed this Cheat from
>version 1.9 (mabye they were worried about losing customers on dwango)
>But I would like to ask them directly:
>WHY did you put a network cheat code in Doom?
> Didn't want to get beat at your own game?!
What you are talking about is not that much of an advantage for teh other guy
unleess you just play hide-and-seek doom........in which you deserve to get
fragged for just sitting there. When you get real good and start playing
people that are real good, there will be no time to sit around looking at
the map. It may have helped him but most likely he was a little better
at doom. Better luck next time :)
Dave
------------------------------
From: d.greer@ix.netcom.com (Jon Greer)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 21:14:06 -0700
Subject: Re: A question about DOOM maps
You wrote:
>
>At 14:26 21.06.1995 EDT, MR WESLEY N FREDRICK wrote:
>
>>1. How can I activate a sector to open like a door when enemies are
killed?
>
>No way :( - well, except for Map 07...
>
>> In MAP07, four sectors fall when the mancubi are slain. When the
spiders
>>are killed, a step pops up allowing exit. I think it may have
something to
>>do with tag numbers 666 and 667, but I can't get it to work
elsewhere.
>
>This works *only* on Map 07 - and ONLY there!
>
>>2. Can anyone explain the weird thing that happens in the automap?
When
>>"M" is pressed, it puts a number (1 to 9 I think) at my current
position.
>
>Marks current position - maybe the most useless thing in DOOM :)
>
>-Florian
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
____
>Florian Helmberger e-mail :
helmberg@li01.ad.or.at
>Himmelpfortgasse 10/6 KaraNet : DOOM
Maniac
>1010 Vienna Office : +43-1-812
13 40
>Austria, EU Private : +43-1-513
11 36
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----
> Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
>
>
In uac_dead.wad, a map based on E1M8, when the last baron dies the
sector holding the cybordemon is triggered. I thought tag 666 did
this. It must be possible. I regret I dont know exactly how:(
Doug Greer
------------------------------
From: zack@smartlink.net (Zack Hobson)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 21:26:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Texture Alignment Tragedy ;)
OK, yYou guys said:
(clip)
>I'm guessing that the height of the walls to either side is not a multiple
>of the texture height.
(clip)
>I'm not sure about this, but in editors I used to use the alignment
>functions drove me nuts because they never did what I needed.
(clip)
>OK - Steve's low down on texture alignment. Texture alignment is complex
>and could fill a couple of dozen pages of a book (it does: ADVERT) but
>here is a quick guide.
Well, I did it! I can't thank you folks enough; that problem was
REALLY annoying. Thanks!
Zack Hobson
E-mail: zack@smartlink.net
"The only excuse for creating a useless item is that one
admires it intensely. All art is quite useless."--Oscar Wilde
------------------------------
From: Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 08:44:26 BST
Subject: Re: simple doom question
> From doom-editing-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 23 04:54:44 1995
> Where do I get this ENDOOMER info?
>
I have to admit to not knowing for sure (I haven't read it for a while), but
if you get hold of DEUTEX, and also DTEXMAN.ZIP from the usual sites, it
describes how to do it.
Quick ftping......
ftp.cdrom.com (and mirrors) /pub/doom/utils/graphics_edit/deutex
contains many versions of deutex3*.zip (some may be betas - read the .txt
files) and dtexman1.zip.
Byeeeee,
Bob.
------------------------------
From: Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 08:50:26 BST
Subject: Re: weird walls
> From doom-editing-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 23 03:28:00 1995
> From: pdavy@taranaki.ac.nz
> I've ended up with a couple of walls on a hallway that let bullets, BFG
> fire etc through although they are impassable to everything else.
Yeah - the walls are tagged 2S, and let weapons through. Doom doesn't
bother to check what the texture is, so it treats it like the grates (eg
near end of E1M1).
> The monsters seem to
> know that you are there too because they shoot THROUGH the solid wall at
> you, even though I've flagged the walls to block sound.
Again, your wall is acting like a grate, so even though there are no
transparent sections in the texture, Doom assumes it is transparent. The
monsters can *see* you.
On a side note - and this is a FAQ - you *do* know that it takes 2 `Blocks
sound' lines to cut out noise, don't you? I would advise getting the
design faq (can't remember what it's called - dsnfaq11?) from ftp.cdrom.com
in one of the text directories.
Byeeeee,
Bob.
------------------------------
From: Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 09:33:57 BST
Subject: Re: A question about DOOM maps
> From doom-editing-owner@nvg.unit.no Fri Jun 23 09:14:48 1995
> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 21:14:06 -0700
> From: d.greer@ix.netcom.com (Jon Greer)
> In uac_dead.wad, a map based on E1M8, when the last baron dies the
> sector holding the cybordemon is triggered. I thought tag 666 did
> this. It must be possible. I regret I dont know exactly how:(
OK, when the last guy said only map07, I guess he meant from doom ][.
E1M8 works too. Actually, I thought there were some others from D][, but
I can't remember off-hand. Essentially, if you want tag 666, you need to
be in MAP07 or E1M8.
Byeeeee,
Bob.
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 21:41:59 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: DM Starting points [was re: DOOM PACKETS ...]
On Thu, 22 Jun 1995, Denis wrote:
> Btw - did anyone ever get fragged by a respawning player? If not Doom
> has to check if the landing point is 'visited' by another player and if so,
> it would move the pointer or just wait the time to the next value...
> (the latter is better...)
As a test, I tried standing on the player two start to see what would
happen when player two died. He reappeared on a _differant_ start.
This also happened in a custom level when a Baron and a couple of Knights
found their way into the starting room, they were following my brother.
I died, and we spent the next two minutes dying and reappearing as the
monster battered us to death.
The interesting thing I noticed was that I never once respawned on top of
either my brother or one of the monsters.
Alden Bates.
------------------------------
From: Alden Bates <abates@central.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 21:48:40 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: IDDT in Network Games
On Thu, 22 Jun 1995, Tom Mustaine wrote:
> WHY did you put a network cheat code in Doom?
Actually, I think this was a bug. That's why it was removed.
It's not a very useful bug either. If you record demos of the
Deathmatches, it should be obvious if the other person used it.
Alden Bates. (When I find someone to make it worth of use, I'll let you
know. :-)
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 11:02:38 +0100
Subject: *NOT* THE WEEKLY REMINDER: Beginners' questions
Hi all,
There has been a little spate (spite, might be a better word) of
correspondence (most of which has mercifully been kept away from the list)
concerning the tolerance (or lack of it) of members of the list to "Newbie"
questions, and about the "beginner's questions" service that I offer. I
hope you all won't mind if I take a moment or two of bandwidth (don't you
just love those mixed metaphors?? ;) to clarify a few things.
First and foremost, the aim of DOOM-editing is to further the *advancement*
of wad editing. That is what many of us mean by "advanced doom editing".
None of us are trying to be elitist or superior in our attitudes. Everyone
on DOOM editing is interested in sharing and disseminating knowledge about
DOOM editing: otherwise we wouldn't be here, would we?
It is a fact of life that some people will have a greater store of
knowledge/experience than others. That is why we get together in forums
like this--to draw on that greater experience of others and so gain
knowledge and experience for ourselves. In this regard, EVERY member of
DOOM editing may have a contribution to make at some time or another.
Nobody should feel excluded in any way.
However, it is another fact of life that it is by its very nature limited.
Mostly in time! If list members are constantly asked the same questions by
new arrivals, we'll never have time to tackle the "new" questions. Hence
the Beginner's Questions service. This service is not intended to preclude
or exclude people from the list: far from it. It is intended to bring
newcomers up to speed quickly so that they can start to contribute more
meaningfully to the "advanced" discussions that this list aims to provide
(ok, ok, so we're running out of such things at times).
I encourage the use of the beginner's service simply because I have a
couple of dozen stock answers that I can quickly post to cover nearly all
of the "beginners'" questions. Usually, such queries reach me faster than
they reach the list: I can deal with them quicker than most list
subscribers (because I have the answers immediately to hand). The "old
hands" don't get bored with the list sounding like the needle's stuck
[old-timer's expression: pre-rap ;)]. Everyone benefits.
[Incidentally, there is nothing to be gained by my making the stock answers
widely available by means of FAQs or whatever. There is nothing in my
answers that is not already covered in the standard docs: principally the
UDS and Tom Neff's Design FAQ (and, of course, *that* book). In essence, my
service is mostly about pointing people towards the info they missed first
time around; or explaining the bits they didn't fully grasp.]
We all end up with egg on face from time to time (I've done it myself times
many: there are people here who probably remember only too well ;) -- when
it happens, one has to learn to laugh and shrug it off. And learn from it.
Or use the Beginner's Questions service to avoid it: I'm not gonna tell
anyone they're stupid, thick or ignorant. I don't believe anyone here
is--there are just poeple with more or less info than others. Beginner's
questions is about making sure those with less get more of what they lack,
quickly.
Questions of wider interest are forwarded direct to the list, anyway. I can
send them there without anyone knowing they've been through me first if
people want (though I see no shame in it myself).
I hope this clarifies things... and encourages more people to feel able to
use the service without fear that by doing so they will brand themselves a
"Newbie", worthy only of other people's scorn. There is nothing wrong with
admitting your "ignorance"--we all have holes in our knowledge.
Which said, I have to admit that after today I won't be around for four
days so there will be a slight delay in dealing with queries in the next
week. I do have *some* life outside DOOM you know (though my wife is
starting to doubt it...)
Now back to DOOM editing (or was it Quake talk.....? ;) Sorry to take up so
much of your time.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: Jens Hedegaard Hykkelbjerg <hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 14:29:42 +0200 (METDST)
Subject: Re: DM Starting points [was re: DOOM PACKETS ...]
>As a test, I tried standing on the player two start to see what would
>happen when player two died. He reappeared on a _differant_ start.
>This also happened in a custom level when a Baron and a couple of Knights
>found their way into the starting room, they were following my brother.
>I died, and we spent the next two minutes dying and reappearing as the
>monster battered us to death.
>The interesting thing I noticed was that I never once respawned on top of
>either my brother or one of the monsters.
This must work just like in the teleports.
If there are more than one teleport landings in the sector,
and the first is blocked, the player and monsters will
respawn at the second teleport landing.
- --
Jens Hykkelbjerg | "Civilisation began with the felling
Aarhus Universitet | of the first tree; and, it will end
Email: hykkelbj@daimi.aau.dk | with the felling of the last."
WWW: http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~hykkelbj/index.html
------------------------------
From: Daniel Bateman <batemand@dasher.buck.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 11:35:07 -0400
Subject: Re: A question about DOOM maps
>>2. Can anyone explain the weird thing that happens in the automap? When
>>"M" is pressed, it puts a number (1 to 9 I think) at my current position.
>Marks current position - maybe the most useless thing in DOOM :)
>-Florian
I beg to differ, I use that feature all the time. Suppose you're in a large
deathmatch level and you find the plasma gun in some obscure place. Just go
to your automap and press "m". Then, you can go anywhere and still be able
to find your way back by looking at the map. In deathmatch, I usually mark
weapons, in single player mode, I mark powerups I don't need when I find
them; I can go back and get them later.
Anyway, this has about as much to do with editing as IRC-bashing, so next
subject please.
- -=-
Dan
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 11:51:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Questions to mull upon
OK, I've run across two things that I'm a little shaky on, so I figured
I'd ask. The first one: Last night I was attempting to record a LMP on
an add-on level (H2HMud01.WAD I believe), when my recording suddenly died
with with a message "P_CrossSubsector: ss 19364 with numss = 401". I
know the WAD is flawless, because I've played it probably over a hundred
times already without getting this error. Does anyone have info on this
error message? I don't recall seeing it on this list before.
Second thing, whichis a bit more complicated. You can ignore this if
you are totally stone bored with exe editing. At someone's request, I
loaded up DeHackEd and changed the duration of the first two Imp frames
(on the Frame Table, F3). Originally they were 10, I changed them down
to 1. Then, I ran Doom several times. Here is the FPS info as
calculated from a -timedemo I played back:
Doom E3M3 without any changes: 7.9 FPS
Doom E3M3 WITH Imp modifications: 7.8 FPS
Doom, Octagon PWAD, without any changes: 8.7 FPS
Doom, Octagon PWAD, WITH Imp modifications:7.5 FPS
(Note I'm played on a pretty slow computer here.) The interesting
thing to note is that when first two Imp frames are messed with, Doom
slows down by 14%, but ONLY on EXTERNAL PWADS. The fellow who suggested
it to me said that this was his experience also... When using the main
IWAD, there was no noticable slowdown, but using an external PWAD,
suddenly Doom slowed down.
I haven't been able to do extensive testing, but according to this
fellow, changing the duration of other frames didn't have any effect
either. And, even if this is just worthless knowledge, I'm still
curious. Anyone have an inkling of why this could be?
Greg
------------------------------
From: mustaine@usa.net (Tom Mustaine)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 09:59:15 -0600
Subject: Re: IDDT in Network Games
>>I am not sure if this has already hit this list or not, But how many people
>>are aware of the Network Cheat codes for Doom/Doom II in all versions up to
>>1.8? I was very upset when this little trinket of info was layed upon me in
>>a net game on dwango. Some dude was kickin my ass all over the place (and
>>shouldn't have been) when after the game he revealed that he was cheating
>>with the Alt-IDDT network cheat code, which allows other players to see
>>where their opponents are in Deathmatch. I know Id removed this Cheat from
>>version 1.9 (mabye they were worried about losing customers on dwango)
>>But I would like to ask them directly:
>>WHY did you put a network cheat code in Doom?
>> Didn't want to get beat at your own game?!
>
>What you are talking about is not that much of an advantage for teh other guy
>unleess you just play hide-and-seek doom........in which you deserve to get
>fragged for just sitting there. When you get real good and start playing
>people that are real good, there will be no time to sit around looking at
>the map. It may have helped him but most likely he was a little better
>at doom. Better luck next time :)
Not Likely. I am one of the better DM players in the Country, This was on
level 14 of doom II, a level where there isn't instant carnage all over, but
knowing another persons location can help very much. Anyhow, It happened a
while ago, I was just wondering if this list has seen any of this or not, If
So, Did Id say anything about it?
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tom Mustaine - Core MMI 1995 Paradox/Clock Paradox/TWM2029@aol.com |
| Doom2 Master - Doom2 Speedy Gonzales - Doom2 Grand Master |
+--{Coming Soon The Web Page to End All Web Pages! Watch This Space!}-+
______/ _____/ _____/ _____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ ____/ __/
__/ __/__/ __/ __/ ____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/'95
______/ _____/ __/ _____/ __/ __/ __/ __/ __/
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 13:02:32 -0500
Subject: Re: DM Starting points [was re: DOOM PACKETS ...]
At 02:29 PM 6/23/95, doom-editing@nvg.unit.no wrote:
>> [snip]
>>The interesting thing I noticed was that I never once respawned on top of
>>either my brother or one of the monsters.
>
>This must work just like in the teleports.
>If there are more than one teleport landings in the sector,
>and the first is blocked, the player and monsters will
>respawn at the second teleport landing.
I can't see how. If this was true, then a tele-frag wouldn't
be possible. Hmmm I'll have to run some tests, or maybe others can.
Maybe you are right for more than 1 start point. I know! Someone
please make a teleporter with several landings in different sectors.
Then, place a monster on that teleport ending except for 1...leave
it blank. If I get a chance, I'll try this.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #323
**********************************
