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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 282
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #282
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 18 May 1995 Volume 01 : Number 282
[none]
RE: BSP *bulding* details
Lame attempt at Pirating TRINITY!
Re: [Q] BLOCKMAP packing?
Re: WQ: Save Game and Other F...
Re: Disappearing wall
Re: Lame attempt at Pirating TRINITY!
Floating Pillars, Things, etc.
Re: Lame attempt at Pirating TRINITY!
Re: Another WAD Error
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 18:51:24 +0200
Subject: [none]
Approved: ASDF
From doom-editing-owner@nvg.unit.no Wed May 17 18:51:15 1995
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From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
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Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 18:49:03 +0200
Message-Id: <199505171649.SAA19238@colossus.nero.uni-bonn.de>
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: convex polygons from SSECTORS
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Robert Fenske wrote:
> You can probably use the partition line and/or the bounding x,y
>coordinates associated with each node to help with drawing those SSECTORS
>that aren't closed.
Yep. I'll have to use the bounding box to determine the real length
of the partition line (as NODES only provides the start/direction of
the LineSeg/Def used to create the partition line). The thing
I still have to figure out is how to efficiently determine which partition
line crossing belongs to which LineSegs/SubSector - have to think about
this.
I'd myself prefer conversion of the current BSP, instead of modifying
a BSP builder. No need to re-build everything.
Thanks a lot.
B.
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 18:10:45 +0200
Subject: RE: BSP *bulding* details
> Olivier Montanuy wrote:
> - partition lines cut just any sector that they manage to go through.
Inside the bounding box of the parent node of the current one.
> a given SIDEDEF can be cut by t(w)o partition lines, and thus end-up
> as a single-SEG node.
This is the part that took me some time. See ASCII art:
1 A B 2
+====+-----+=========+
| /
| / 1,2 vertices from map editing
| / A,B, vertices from BSP building
| / line 12 is LineDef
|/ line AB is LineSeg
+ CA and CB go along partition lines
C
This would be a minimal SSECTOR containg one SEG, right? What
disturbed me was the question what vertex C is all about.
It's not a vertex from map-editing, it can't be created during BSP
building.
At this point, I finally got it :-). C isn't there - as I said,
crossing partition lines do not create vertices. Problem was,
I was still searching for this polygone defined by vertices ...
it just isn't there. OK, I think I understand those single SEG
SSECTORS now.
> no, floors/ceilings are obviously generated by the linedef seen in
> each columns. this is clear when you play a level in IDCLIP.
Uhhmm? You have to do horizontal constant z depth scanlines for
floors/ceilings. You go along all the linedefs to determine
the first and last x/column indices for each y/row slice of the
floor. You need to know all linedefs of a SECTOR. You do the
SECTORS back-to-front (painter's algo, perhaps inefficient,
but DOOM does, see visplane post/the quoted observation by
Ted Vessenes). That's "by SECTOR".
Please explain what you mean.
> - IDBSP doesn't take SECTOR reference into account. BSP and DEU do,
> but this is an unecessary feature.
What's done with SECTOR reference? Please elaborate on the feature.
Are the resulting BSPs different in any aspect?
B.
------------------------------
From: Olivier <montanuy@lsun75.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: 17 May 95 20:35:32+0200
Subject: Lame attempt at Pirating TRINITY!
Hello, WAD creators, and especially you Steve!
I have found on ftp.cdrom.com, in pub/doom/newstuff/, a file
called TRINITY.ZIP. As some of you may have noticed, this is no
more than the good old trinity.
A quick inspection with DCK showed me it had not been modified
(I know the map by heart, having converted it to heretic)
but... there was not the usual text file!
look what I found instead:
- ---------------------------trinity.txt------------------------------
Title: ?
Author: Brian Hankey & ?
E-mail Address: TRiPER66ix@NETCOM.COM
X-tra Info: I found this file included in some shareware where it didn't belong
so I cleaned it up and made it alot bigger and more complicated. Please feel
free to send comments/suggestions/hate mail/did it suck?
Description: I don't know what to say other than BIG and intracit.
Additional credits: Some unkown guy
Game: Doom I - can be easily converted
Levels: E2M1
New Maps: Yes (1)
New Graphics: Maybe some new textures - I'm not sure
Base: Anonomous base
Build Time: About 3 hours
Editors Used: Doomcad and deu
Known Bugs: I'm sure there are some but this levels is so big I haven't found
any yet
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I let you judge whatever action needs to be taken
It's funny that one of the most famous WAD on the net can be called
'anonymous base'
------------------------------
From: fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr)
Date: Wed, 17 May 95 13:47:39 CDT
Subject: Re: [Q] BLOCKMAP packing?
>> through my WARM v1.3 or Jason's DMAPEDIT--which both do
>> BLOCKMAP packing--should fix the problem without resorting to having to
>> change the level.
>
>What's that? Using one "empty" block definition for all those blocks which
>does not contain a line (same offset)? Or even using the same block
>definition for all blocks containing the same lines? Please explain
You got it. Many of a BLOCKMAP's blocks contain no lines and there
is apparently no reason to have a separate entry for each one of these empty
block. So all the empty blocks point (via the offset) to a single empty block.
This makes the BLOCKMAP significantly smaller and thus much larger levels
(my guess is unplayably large) can be made before the 64K word limit is it.
Any blocks that contain the same lines could also be represented by a single
BLOCKMAP entry. Blocks with the same lines are far fewer than the empty
blocks so packing such entries wouldn't create as much saved space and the
extra computation would be O(<# blocks>^2). I didn't implement this "same
lines" checking in WARM. I don't know if DMAPEDIT does it either.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: BonesBro@AOL.COM
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 16:41:24 -0400
Subject: Re: WQ: Save Game and Other F...
Yes, there will be a palette conflict. Also, you'll lose the animated floors,
because Heretic doesn't know to animate them. You COULD replace Heretic's
animated floors, but then you'd have the splashing and splooshing, which
really gets on the nerves, IMHO.
------------------------------
From: Luney John <luneyj@jeff-lab.queensu.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 17:17:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Disappearing wall
On xxx, 16 May 1995, John Orazem wrote:
>
> Have any of you ever noticed that if you look at some walls from
> a certain angle, you can see through? No noticable messed up graphics,
> is just makes it look like the corner is closer than for real.
> --
> | Fidonet : John Orazem 1:250/348
> | Internet: John.Orazem@horizon.tor250.org
Are you using WADED? Cause if you are it sounds like the node error i
sometimes get?
.....Mayhem!
------------------------------
From: David Damerell <djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 21:55:38 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re: Lame attempt at Pirating TRINITY!
On 17 May 1995, Olivier wrote:
> ---------------------------trinity.txt------------------------------
> Title: ?
> Author: Brian Hankey & ?
> E-mail Address: TRiPER66ix@NETCOM.COM
This may well be a typo for triper66@ix.netcom.com, yesno?
David 'Gotterdammerung' Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk.
Trinity College, Cambridge University. CUWoCS President. All Hail Discordia!
|___| "Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc." Confessed Mecrediphile. |___|
| | | Or, in Klingon: "belDaq maH nucharghbogh chaHvetlh DISop maH." | | |
------------------------------
From: mneves@triton.rdc.puc-rio.br (Marcus Vinicius de A.B. Neves)
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 17:48:08 -0300 (BSC)
Subject: Floating Pillars, Things, etc.
Hello All!
Well, I might be pertubing you because this question would have been asked many
times, but how can I do in a PWAD a floating pillar, or a stuff like a table (or something
similar) and a switch to this thing up and down? Could this thing be possible? If so (and if
it was done before in a PWAD), what PWAD contains something similar and where is it?
Thanks in advance.
*--------------------------------------*-------------------------------------*
| ()s, | |
| Marcus Vinicius Neves | "In the depths of a mind insane |
| Internet: mneves@eros.rdc.puc-rio.br | Fantasy and reality are the same." |
| mneves@unikey.ax.apc.org | -Slayer |
*--------------------------------------*-------------------------------------*
------------------------------
From: joost schuur <joost.schuur@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 23:40:21 +0200 (MESZ)
Subject: Re: Lame attempt at Pirating TRINITY!
On 17 May 1995, Olivier wrote:
> Hello, WAD creators, and especially you Steve!
>
> I have found on ftp.cdrom.com, in pub/doom/newstuff/, a file
> called TRINITY.ZIP. As some of you may have noticed, this is no
> more than the good old trinity.
> A quick inspection with DCK showed me it had not been modified
> (I know the map by heart, having converted it to heretic)
> Well, I let you judge whatever action needs to be taken
> It's funny that one of the most famous WAD on the net can be called
> 'anonymous base'
i moved it into a non accessable dir for now at ftp.cdrom.com. let me
know what to do. send a mail to jschuur@ftp.cdrom.com
</j>
sig: come home, all is forgiven. joost.schuur@student.uni-tuebingen.de
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 15:55:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Another WAD Error
>>> Ok. I am full of WAD errors these ays :). Here is this one:
> [lots of cutting]>
>don't think it is big enough to cause a BLOCKMAP overflow (to be clear:
> Have you ruled out all the things that can cause a crash at the
>start: line with no sides, more than 64 animated lines, etc?
There isnt a blockmap problem. I used WARM to tell me the size of the
blockmap, and it was reported as follows:
WAD Auxiliary Resource Manipulator
Version 1.1 of January 1995 by Robert Fenske, Jr (rfenske@swri.edu)
Ported to OS/2 2.1 by Mark K. Mathews (mark.mathews@channel1.com)
Reading WAD file newwad.wad...done
Directory for newwad.wad...
MAP01...............0 bytes
THINGS............1370 bytes (137)
LINEDEFS..........21938 bytes (1567)
SIDEDEFS..........70800 bytes (2360)
VERTEXES..........6060 bytes (1515)
SEGS..............31284 bytes (2607)
SSECTORS..........3908 bytes (977)
NODES.............27328 bytes (976)
SECTORS...........8268 bytes (318)
REJECT............12641 bytes
BLOCKMAP..........30118 bytes (15059)
I am getting angry at this error, I have seen it before. Only before,
the error only appeared when shooting at certain angles in a certain
corner of a certain few rooms.....what IS it? The error checkers dont detect
any lines without sides (its Doom 2, WinDEU doesn tdetect any of those) and
I have a player 1 start. I didnt exceed anim line limits (I thought it was
48, not 64). Any other ideas?
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #282
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