Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 214
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #214
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 22 March 1995 Volume 01 : Number 214
Re: Very Disturbing News
Re: cheating & consistency
Re: Things snap to 16x16
Re: Mousing
Where's DEU 5.3?
Re: Very Disturbing News
Who designed what
[none]
Re: Very Disturbing News
Re: Very Disturbing News
Mousey conversation go bye-bye!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 10:52:28 CST
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
> of the health of other players - So the user cheating has a EXE that reports
> 200% health all the time and thats what the other EXE's recieve and believe.
> There is no way (that I know of at least) to avoid this kind of cheating,
Yes, just do what iFrag does: CRC check the exe before launching. If the
CRCs don't match, you can't play. Period. I get the feeling the dwango
server will have such a change made to it rather quickly. :)
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:16:58 +0100
Subject: Re: cheating & consistency
> There is NO way people can
> cheat with a hacked .EXE, unless both players are running the same
> hacked .EXE.
Iff there's a checksum on the EXE during startup. If not, consistency
failures will occur for every difference in state updates (health,
position, etc.), right?
Display related cheat is still possible, then. In a way, Gamma
correction is a minor "cheat". Others which only make sense if
used on your own machine should be:
- players and monsters have always MaxBright set,
- colormaps and playpals are rewritten
to maximum lightness everywhere,
- every partly transparent texture/patch
is replaced with something (nearly) fully transparent,
- weapon and projectile sprites made smaller,
thus do not block your view,
etc. Anything improving your HUD view, while not affecting
state, health etc. directly. A hack allowing cooperative automap
usage in deathmatch should work. Hacking enemy sounds
to max. loudness, or assigning additional "nearby/active"
sounds should work. Replacing all wall textures by something
paper white should work. Only EXE *and* WAD checksums would
prevent this, right?
Same on the user input. There's been a TSR doing 180 degree
turns on a single mouseclick. This might be exploited further,
e.g. lots of predefined movements (even sequences) attached to
unused keyboard inputs, and translated to "mickeys". Even
checksums wouldn't be able to prevent this. Of course, this is
"advantage cheating", not "invulnerability cheating".
B.
------------------------------
From: mmathews@genesis.tiac.net (Mark Mathews)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:46:32 +0000 ()
Subject: Re: Things snap to 16x16
Sounds like your using the original IDBSP. There are other versions of
IDBSP that do not snap things to 16x16 grid. Other compilers you could
use are BSP12X, WARM, or DEEPBSP.
Mark Mathews
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 10:50:22 CST
Subject: Re: Mousing
> My GW2000 keyboard has a CTRL and an ALT key pair on either side of the
> space bar. Between the pair on the left is a '*' key, and the pair on the
> right has a backslash key between them. I assign the left CTRL key as
> "strafe left", the left ALT key as "strafe right", and the '*' key between
> them as "speed on". The only thing that keeps this from being perfect is
> that I need a backup key, since this a weak point of the mouse (I haven't
> tried the '*' key while pulling back on the mouse, tho....wonder if that
> would work OK?), so I assigned that to the left Shift key on the row
> immediately above.
There is a problem with nonstandard key setups though... If you're on
someone else's machine, you need to redefine everything. Or if you happen
to be running on a sparc or SGI, you can't redefine anythign (this is why I
occationally practice playing keyboard still.)
Re: Backupkey. I'd love one! That would be so handy. But what I think would
make more sense would be to redefine the strafe mouse button to backup. Use
the mouse for sensitive strafing? I don't think so. Just strafe to the
right area and use the mouse to turn in the right direction.
> Although you are correct that the Space bar is easily reached for opeining
> doors, don't forget that you can also do it via a double click of the
> "forward" button on your mouse, which I prefer.
I used to do that, but for some reason I'm more comfortable with the spacebar.
Most of my friends converted to mousedom use the doubeclick of forward,
however.
> You're right about strafing with the mouse -- I have it assigned to my
> middle button, but I never use it. I would like to use the middle button
> for something else, but if I remember correctly, these are the only 3 things
> you can assign to the mouse buttons in SETUP,
Yes, you are correct. See above suggestion. :) But hopefully iD is too busy
on Quake to release a minipatch for a backup key in the EXE (new version,
new demo format, etc, etc.)
> Also, I have found that you need to set Acceleration on HIGH. With these
> settings, I can turn 180 degrees instantaneously....the only problem I have
> is "over-turning", i.e., sometimes I turn 270 or even 360 degrees (the 360
> degree turn is especially problematical, because if you're not paying close
> attention, you think nothing at all happened....it can mees up your
> mind!)....I still need some practice on the finer points of mousing.
I tried putting ballistics on high with sensitivity on 10 both inside and
outside of DOOM, but I didn't like it. I could easily turn 720 wtihout
even noticing it (yes, 720, not 360). But the worst part about acceleration
was that sometimes I would move an inch on my mousepad and it would go, say
180, and othertimes an inch would be 360-- depending on how fast I did it.
I couldn't get used to it. I suppose with enough practice it might be better,
but it's really not that worthwhile. Low ballistics does it for me, and I
still kill almost all people I go against (but not everyone, mind you.)
> >Oh, sorry... I think this post relates more to playing than editing. My
> apologies.
> Yeah, me too.
Tack up another apology for me. :)
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: mneves@eros.rdc.puc-rio.br (Marcus Vinicius de A.B. Neves)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:51:11 -0300 (BSC)
Subject: Where's DEU 5.3?
Well, I am here to know if DEU 5.3 is already in the scene, or
we will have to wait for the QEU (Quake Editor ;-)...
If it is available, where can i find it?
Marcus.
------------------------------
From: Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:06:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
TWM2029 (is this right?) wrote:
> Greg Lewis wrote:
> >Now there is NO way to hack one person's exe and
> >get the results to show up on another person's.
>
> >Doom is still cheat-proof after over 14 months of existence.
>
> Sorry to inform you of this Greg, But you are wrong.
[bullshit deleted]
> ...the exe's report to each
> other what that current players health is, the other exe's do NOT keep track
> of the health of other players - So the user cheating has a EXE that reports
> 200% health all the time and thats what the other EXE's recieve and believe.
>
Err... where did you get your EXE? I would send it back to iD and ask for
a replacement if I were you. Each Doom EXE should keep track of _everything_
so if you pump a non-invulnerable player with rockets and he doesn't die
your EXE is somewhat "compromised".
Now stop talking outta your ass.
Steve.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Miller <rmiller@infinet.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:22:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Who designed what
[bowing and scraping] I'm not worthy...I'm not worthy...
On Mon, 20 Mar 1995, John Romero wrote:
> Regarding who did Episode 1 of the original DOOM, it was me (except
> for map 8, which I personally would have designed much better :).
> The other 2 episodes were done by Sandy Petersen (some E2 & E3 maps
> are original, some are makeovers of some of Tom Hall's old maps,
> before his toastage.)
You're probably going to fall out of your chair when you read this, Mr
Romero...but this is all fairly common knowledge. :)
What isn't common knowledge is who designed E1M8. Do you know?
Do you care? :)
> In DOOM II, I did maps 11, 15, 17, 20, 26 and
> 29. American McGee did maps 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 14 and 22. Shawn
> Green did map 25. All other maps were done by Sandy Petersen. (I
> don't think this info has been published before!)
Alright, thanks for the info (even the info I've heard before), and...one
more time...
I'm not worthy!... (alright, I think you get the idea by now.)
Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com
------------------------------
From: Jim Elson <jlelson@utdallas.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:01:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [none]
On Mon, 20 Mar 1995 Brad Willman wrote:
> I did NOT intend my program to be distributed by ANYONE...
> NOR did i actually ever use it in deathmatch
> you can consiter the program removed from my HD'd... its not fair anyways
> for the other guy...
> (even though i do likke cheating from time to time i NEVER use it in
> deathmatch)
I'm glad to hear that Brad. Thanks for removing it from your BBS.
I can certainly understand doing it to see if it could be done.
> you guys only found out about the invunerability thing NOW eh?
> i'm one of the origional concept people of it .. although i never actually
> released the prog ... its possible someone could have gotten it off my bbs
> somehow...
We shouldn't have heard about it at all. Apparently one or two too many
people did hear about and found a way to get a hold of it. But that's no
longer here or there, the bull's already out of the barn. You might also
look into whether some of the others involved might have released the hack
or played a role in allowing someone to get hold of it. (BTW, I do have
the name of one of the main cheaters on Houston Dwango. However, I
haven't gotten independent confirmation of that yet.)
It's mainly a question of what to do now since right now Houston's Doomers
reputations are a hair's breath away from being completely and irrevokably
ruined. That's why I only posted this news on this mailing list instead
to the international Dooming community at large. (Dwango's Houston server
has a particularly acute interest in squashing the use of this hack, since
if word gets out about it on the newsgroups, very few people will be
willing to play ANYONE on that server.)
I'd greatly appreciate you helping stop the spread of this hack as
well as spreading the word that the cheaters have been exposed. Of
course, there's little we can threathen them with except for the
universal disdain and comdemnation of the international Dooming
community and the fact that any of their claims to have bested
someone at deathmatch will be dimissed out of hand regardless of
whether they used or could have used the cheat.
>
> .. i also made some other progs ... like start with ALL weapons... FULL
> ammo... unlimited ammo..
>
> there is another version of the unlimited health thing flowing out.. ALSO by
> me... of course.. someone could have gotten it again if they knew the D2d
> passwordS on my board...
> this one adds on only 1% health at a time .. and another ver... 25%...
> heh....
>
> i hacked the thing .. true enough... but i made a prog that does that FOR
> me...
Yeah, I did hear some hints about the ammo cheats a month or two ago.
Anyway, I really applaude your coming forward on this. I'd also
appreciate any thoughts you might have about how we can inhibit the
spread and usage of the cheat. Thanks.
- --Jim
P.S. Since Romero doesn't think it's possible, perhaps you ought to
tell him how exactly how you did it. Since he writes Dwango's code with
Kee Kimbrell, they might be able to find a way to defeat the cheat
on the Dwango servers. I really doubt they're be a Doom 1.9a to
defeat it since id's busy with Quake.
------------------------------
From: student <xd0110@linux.cnu.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:09:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
Daniel LaBell xd0110@linux.cnu.edu
On Mon, 20 Mar 1995, Brad Willman wrote:
> you guys only found out about the invunerability thing NOW eh?
> i'm one of the origional concept people of it .. although i never actually
> released the prog ... its possible someone could have gotten it off my bbs
> somehow...
>
> .. i also made some other progs ... like start with ALL weapons... FULL
> ammo... unlimited ammo..
[... ]
> i hacked the thing .. true enough... but i made a prog that does that FOR
> me...
Ok, did you ever do a hack that changed the chat keys? I'd like to have
Chat on C instead of T.
( of course my killer keyb setup used T for strafe Right, so the first
time I played deathmatch , and thought " I'll just dodge this rocket "
I was toast.
------------------------------
From: Peter Fleming <pfleming@eros.otago.ac.nz>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:20:43 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
> > Although I know some keyboarders who regard the mouse as cheating. :-)
> >
> >Greg
>
> You got that right, Greg, see my previous msgs!!!
I heard that it was a small Mouse Program (TSR ?) that let mousers do 180's.
If this is so, could someone write one that let keyboard players do the same?
ie. Hit enter and spin !
- -banjo
For King Chromic Acid
------------------------------
From: bennes@rpi.edu (Scott Benner)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:44:47 -0500
Subject: Mousey conversation go bye-bye!
For the love of...
STOP WITH THE CONTROLLER WARS!
Who really cares? The last time I checked, this group was a doom-editing
mailing list!! The conversations I've been reading for the past week
belong on rec.games.computer.doom.playing for their content...
Jeez. All I'm looking for is a little bit of talk about editing, not this
crud (for the PC readers out there). Sure, you can edit with the mouse or
keyboard, (like DCK's messed up layout: heh heh flame) so get back to that...
'nuff with the playing styles...
- -- Scott
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #214
**********************************
