Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 223
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #223
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 29 March 1995 Volume 01 : Number 223
Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
descending stairs WAD
All these linedef values
Stairs
Viewpoint height?
Re: re. visplanes?
Re: Re. transp doors & descending stairs
Re: Re. transp doors & descending stairs
Re: Stairs
re. Visplanes-R-US
Re: Re. transp doors & descending stairs
Re: re. visplanes?
Re: DEBUNK alert
Re: Viewpoint height?
Re: re. visplanes?
Re: re. visplanes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 16:36:07 +0100
Subject: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
This message is being posted at the request of the list caretaker:
The purpose of this list is to discuss *advanced* DOOM editing techniques.
In order to keep it that way, if you have a question but don't know whether
it's advanced or not, mail it in the first instance to:
Steve Benner : S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
Your question will either be answered or, if deemed suitable, forwarded to
the list. This is offered as a potential red-face saving and
list-annoyance abatement service. Feel free to send questions at any level
on any topic of WAD editing.
**If your questions are prefixed with the code WQ: (for 'WAD query') in the
subject field (e.g. Subject: WQ: Sprites), they will be processed quicker
because they will be spotted by an automatic mail sorter and brought to my
attention sooner than if I have to plough through my mail-box!**
This reminder will be posted here weekly, with the same subject title.
SEND QUERIES ABOUT SUBSCRIPTION TO:-
doom-editing-owner@ngv.unit.no **NOT** to me. Thank you.
==
- -Steve : also, check out http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/index.html
------------------------------
From: fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 08:26:26 CST
Subject: descending stairs WAD
This WAD demonstrates the descending staircase. It is not my
creation--I don't know who made it. But as the saying goes, "a WAD is
worth a 1000 ASCII art characters".
begin 666 dnstair.zip
M4$L#!!0 ( "!^51ZS!8Z_+0D ,0: + 1$Y35$%)4BY7043M64M,
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MD'%5_^RTLI5=S** @G?@+:@%+8 60'.@.= 9T!G0+= MT#)H&70;=!LT U
M=T%W07= =T#W0/= #T /0/=!]T$/0;ELDY/B\$T<!< "]'/5?10>@^?,.!F)
M6X.XO@H2-4_*D079.:ES)$%N7J,XU*VW!4<MY*95!K%'<+T6OQ'.N1$9Q#G!
M5"T"),1:1N(_]+4S&OV-8)Q9C1G[T#XB=8[0R%XD'W7B@6JO2ITC(K)%J7-\
M0FY!ZA*=!'=TS"L23?EH%N-9'QMQ1$AN5&7Z(%_4^7#;K,H,HWU$7^Y](FDD
MND5?ZV,>CNW(7=/X&'7KHSN.(\E=TK6<QSA7M>^P1*%>!C%5X/,%_;Q&1"E&
M8FGTM>-2YRB3W&5]O:!N4_JBP#O(I=4^B$N#B5H<3HC=_%IZT7Z!?$3>C_J8
MSA.9AV!<;3*$^A7RL3';^Z[N<JS)WM,Q\9W=?=6+/$70JO-)B4<VDD7 ?.R0
MYA 0Q+B"WB2HVUX]@SC]KE]E$,D'P^0S$'G9%49DD#4(^K1OE\S62,X"?>UY
M:><, ;E!\GX9=9O1MP'FY;(J@WD% [5\!VG\*MF3H$W[IL73<3MG.<B>(W_K
MYC!.GOR+ G7;KEX>>ER'RB /$O34,B^D^9LF?>GS3W8['W\^8?P2MTT:"[34
M(@*.LDUP6^I\(@P?<]I!;4K[DL3LA*R"?V=.JPQG*&(:=5J)Y,G>I*-HHJ66
M&2%W2W,FV(_NALQS IP);DK],O=%;L*(+LC;VU*7_%&0J^6A2#-/G#LBVZDO
M =C;=:M>K,GYG!KGNL@F50;9I:!+WQ7M\D6,6J!9_B5QVW!VJ@LEC\(9&<Z@
MC**=\Q53*+,H-U 64.ZA/,2HR[#J$Y0U6.(#M%50GJ%\3'S_!54VX2'?N^ .
MA.(:=GQ7>LRW'9A]CU',\7W*6&#VI&W/[ IM<7''=S!C^_(!F/-8L^,X>4>P
M7;,C;;AEA29<TO&=[?MY^5W%>*_X^SL'3.YC4,4<?S^G&-- 9.!?<".G'-_S
M?@U^[BP#/R1Y3?89@IEMP;;-EM!6EW;L7SSFV[9,66B*,HY]$&/6S$C;C"D(
MS;IVQWZ+,7@F:;.*M>$.8E_EQ_1CE15KQ3=EW\,8/*/X(/9'3+M<M^,ZKX_,
MMG@GIHQUX@Q;D8,'1&];PP+J<.TB Q\'3QM4'5"FC.5<CMB?LKZ"R<D<<I+4
MM73.]3CVS4X>F=PO8 \L6(>\60JZ!C_W@LJT84^R[_:V]C9VBB5)]KV1]^;U
M%[?\VW&>7LI._[RZ7ST;X?S:_Y%W1SZO'IQI41/9YZL&7\$V_'+_V:S?]6>Q
MAS@3RR^I<;Q2II!OGL,M? >WFT6F]C$RLB_HI_1S^@S^X/?T!_HC_8G^3'^A
MO]+?Z OQ!4V218T=^VMJ_U_!?[G<0 ;ZMF(GD9N2CSY"0HSD1L[(7<UG@_UG
M'B^%?GFQ#&'&+,5>K!7G(RO^KPM2[,?[Y'4QB-N[H".W"+V+5=V76@I>=TC>
M@V/BV2YC[9R5GX;7FH4%YB'K)>/BH?E%=A&2[,FN0G(*DD5(<M9] 2\[EER
MU=ZKK6M.>X<\ET2M-:%M&?T.I>+38I@)Y7?-YN.5M4<5?I7@Q,-AKZZLE99*
MRY67J'\)@<K*DO _A(/[._\?0FECL_1AJ3("Q_8SN+1*B7L3O83#^P''"972
MXN;Z1N5;\)_"8:^M+Y58X#D4)&,L+S!]TLOO3N372^^CA>AWO?[^?[BZOOCD
MZ8/ROP!02P$"% 4 " @?E4>LP6.ORT) #$&@ "P "
G 1$Y35$%)4BY704102P4& $ 0 Y 5@D
end
------------------------------
From: Mike Duggan <mduggan@ram.ramnet.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:30:35 -500 (EST)
Subject: All these linedef values
I noticed this continuing discussion of linedef values for Doom ][ in
Doom 1. Could anyone post a list of these?
------------------------------
From: Mike Duggan <mduggan@ram.ramnet.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:24:15 -500 (EST)
Subject: Stairs
I'm curious, in one of the messages I've read, the person said he used a
set of stairs over a moat. So does that mean that stairs automatically
change to next texture/type/etc?
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:35:25 +0200
Subject: Viewpoint height?
Has anybody ever bothered to determine the *viewpoint*
height? Using a differently sized walls, I ended up
with 41 "units". During movement, variation seems to
be approx. plus/minus 2 units (difficult to determine :).
As the player height is 56 units (and the PLAYxx sprites
are probably 56 pixels high :) 41 does not seem to fit.
The Scott Amspoker "METRICS" mention (besides thing
width and height compatible to the UDS/EXE Thing tables)
different scales:
16 h units = 1 foot
10 v units = 1 foot
In addition, resolution is usually assumed to be different:
hres = 8 h units
vres = 1 v unit
I think vertices are >> 3 (aka DIV 8) to avoid overflow
with fixed point (16.16 ?).
Now I'd like to know if other "real world building" PWAD
designers have found the same values for scale. It's a bit
difficult to take the "fisheye" effect into account
(projection is not really done to plane, rather to a
cylinder - on the other hand, Id seems to adjust the "Sky"
column mapping to get a "fisheye" there as well). BTW, using
any ****xdoom port, things are distorted anyway, as 320x200
does not map to 4:3 aspect ratio, if square pixels are used
(e.g. in 640x480 or 1024x768 screen modes).
I'd appreciate any other guesstimates.
B.
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 11:13:05 CST
Subject: Re: re. visplanes?
> >visiplane crashes. I had made the letters rather cursive.
> >
> >Interestingly these letters were NOT visible at the spots where it was
> >crashing:
> >
> > ______
> > / \ BBQ
> > / \
> > | | * = 5 pointed star
> > | * | <==== raised platform
> > \ /
> > \______/
> >
> > X X = spot where game crashed
> >
> >
> >(Pardon the poor art-work) So, you see the crash occured even
> >when the lettering was hidden by the raised platform. I solved
> >the problem by making the lettering more blockish (removing lines).
>
> Hmmm... a map like this will probably have a lot of things carved up by the
> nodes builder: lots of SSegs visible here, I'd bet. By "hidden" I assume
> you mean that the floor (and therefore the effects of the letter sectors)
> is hidden. The engine will still be looking through these ssegs, yes?
Actually, I think there's even more than that. One time I was playing
DOOM ][ MAP 27 and I paused the game as it was in the middle of a redraw!
Surely complete luck that I even hit it. It had drawn some of the
walls farther back and was in the middle of-- get this-- drawing the green
slime pit surrounding the rocket launcher. Only when it's done repainting,
the green slime pit is overpainted. Here's basically what my screen looked
like (pardon the poor art-work)
.--------------. The ...s are places where green slime was painted. (Note
| | how it cut off midway through). Perhaps it's faster just
| | to paint the picture and then paint over it with other
| ......... | sectors later. However, this DOES show something
| .............| interesting. Whether or not you actually see a floor or
|....... | ceiling on screen is meaningless. The real question is,
`--------------' "Is there a line of sight between here and the sector,
regardless of walls?"
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 11:24:33 CST
Subject: Re: Re. transp doors & descending stairs
> >But I want to know how to make a descending staircase, that activates by a
> >switch! R. Fenske Jr. says it can be done. How??? I once really wanted to
> >make one of these but couldn't find a switch, and the UDS doesn't meantion
> >such a thing. Now *this* might be a PNQ but HOW THE HELL DO YOU MAKE A
> >DESCENDING STAIRCASE?
>
> No, this is NOT a PNQ. C'mon, RF Jr -- tell us how, 'cos I can't see it
> either!
I remember a post about that a while ago, either on this list or the deu
beta tester's list. It was fairly simple, but there's one catch. You
can't get the stairs to slowly lower, with the same speed that other stairs
slowly raise. The stairs just instantly "teleport" down to their required
location (which can have quite a suprising effect, actually. I tried this
once, and it was a lot of fun.) Here's what you do:
+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ Now suppose you want a decending staircase
| | | | | | that drops down from A to E. First, you
| | | | | | must have the shown linedef orientation (as
-| A |- B |- C |- D |- E |- indicated by the -s. Ie, the first side-
| | | | | | def must point away from the sector if the
| | | | | | line is two sided. When two stair sectors
+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ border on a line, that line must have the
first sidedef face whichever sector should
be lower. The end linedefs point away to make sure that the rising staircase
effect doesn't get carried away in it's surround searches.
Now here's the magic: set all sectors except the last one to have the "normal"
floor height. Set the last sector to have the height after the switch (minus
8). Then set the tag on the last sector, E, to be the tag for the rising
staircase.
DOOM will do this. Start at sector E, raise it 8. Find out it needs to
raise D as well. "Whoops! D is already too high! Lets instantly put it
at the correct height" (which happens to be lower). Lather, rinse, repeat
for C, B, and A.
I saw a test wad that had this trick in it, but I deleted it. If there is
a large clamoring, I can write up one for you guys to look at.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:38:34 EST
Subject: Re: Re. transp doors & descending stairs
a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (drake o'brien) ,in message <m0rtXOs-00046GC@rsoft.rsoft.
bc.ca>, wrote:
> But I want to know how to make a descending staircase, that activates by a
> switch! R. Fenske Jr. says it can be done. How??? I once really wanted to
> make one of these but couldn't find a switch, and the UDS doesn't meantion
> such a thing. Now *this* might be a PNQ but HOW THE HELL DO YOU MAKE A
> DESCENDING STAIRCASE?
Well, I'm not the first one to do this. I remember a post from long ago,
but I don't remember if how he did it was exactly the same as how I just now
did it. It probably was.
The stairs do not actually descend, they ascend from below, and usually,
since the starting height of the sector is above its final height as a stair,
it immediately snaps into position.
The following wad illustrates the effect. If anyone has another technique
for creating descending stairs, please post.
There are 4 different ways to activate this staircase. Walk across the
either end of the step area, or press one of the switches on the wall.
Walking gives you the best view of the action because the switch placement is
lame.
begin 644 descstair.zip
M4$L#!!0````(`&E<?![FQ\#A:@8``&$4```,````1$530T5.1%,N5T%$Y5A-
M:%Q5%/[>_/]EDIG)3#I-TOS5_U:;-OVSUKZTF=36-*F98-5-!3>"&T$0!,$+
M@H@4Z<J5+MVYJ%)$1)E7$`3!C2"X$5RX$`11Z*8TD_$[Y]XWG<3)V`E=Z83[
M[OG>=W[N.^^]<\_+Q4OS"UD`GY8`?\-X+\!#DMCCG_VU6AYV.^0115!"3%&$
M<U3/RB^JW"Z'XD0Q'BU*$,6I85&2J((!YV4*>U%&SJ%Q3&(868>J&&.TC$-E
M>B\B[5"!>@6D'!K`$/^2#J7I;Y!18^0]CD/(8\2AAW`?N5!SCMZ3;2^'J9=J
M1SBBT<+H1U&A'*[L('.2;:_Z8>RA'%[1/DQ3SCOT*.[G2H8<RN(8Y8)#@SA.
MN>A0"8]3#K,[@A.4AQT:Q8.4RPY-X!'*%8=FL)_:(7H,#W"=48<.8)99J^I=
M]?`$,U\E8^_#2:+=]&RY)XE&>4\M=XI(YOWN*0CG^MK*<NT(MISMS89G0WPW
MMEMMPMGK:7OOV7".;$(7:FOS2P>W8WO;]L=&>\:-]F';'QOK&3?6AVU_;+QG
MW'@?MMW9[9ZK1,^X7=BYG;%;YV3/N%W8N9VQ6^=4S[A=V+F=L5OG=,^X7=BY
MG;%W5S?^.VSW&MM?%>W.;KU'^"<[]_]AV_F^-"O)/;*C'<?9HJ<M?[?HX!8W
MB*8.:<DB>EP//'_=]PQ'P(&F[_D<AB/@P`8'S_O4,QP!!YJTX3`<`0<VB#<0
M,3)N(Q+<%M_"\RBQ-B2VV(-^)":\DNQ5ONT0I-,+:WF,75JK8>NK]!K2T\FO
MJORTRL/L96#&U+9,!#.N<H4(9H^31R"]C<@#1/"3*H^PEVHU!E7.DX$947F"
M71>,UM>H]%M0>W`U<;<>G])$J*,](/Q!E:7_;#5LC<S)&OR4BYNC?D7E/>Q&
MK:T?E>Y.K*#KS]'6UKFL7(N?5OT<$4Q99>EA6PU;DS)R[7Y&SV>)8(95'I<]
M6/V;J'268F5]YC2*7ICH^Y.J7U)^S.6SK![L>BJZ6F@&*)L)E=7*%RF`]/#A
M\R@=?*MA^XXAV9^,[=H+1#!5E8M$,+M=W"+E496E7Y2.4WZCVKOL55FZ]%8C
MHW):]/VLZF>D+IN2\UE2*ZB<IGY6Y93$\G.JDY;]PQ3=>HH:T>9A2M+D]-/J
MP<;*:'2;9WZ#-"95EB^#5B.G<E*NRQ]0GRG9%TU!9>G#H<^K/+'3SK_1[P$H
M9[-H<^BNVJ[!2[!W;S7RS@^_:!H#JB-?'?#S+BZ?-3.D.O(%`'UGY(V8<7X"
M_1*!<K9#\?2;*>%Z\A2O*,TLYSCG.0J4ASE7.*KZWGEZEZ<XICEFJ+V7Y_=S
MS'(<YCA.FY/4/T7Y-.5%:&U@+%]KB50)K1?K5;/+""<Y"-J<UJ!U/EG&[[#S
MUXW:R5PQ9:.:,"VK;^V$DY(5M#FI68':!>MHEDS1F`Z?K#5-JX/FL(G!;/*I
M2+FH9$J\2`;M^E@A`YT3*!BI<9:36B>53NM><\@,&K^#,X[SFZ:90MZ@@_,=
MQ]K:3&-`[<)KD'-Z[;3+FHS1^AOFLZG1=<Z9+$P')VO0Z^.<-BD3='!VG;[.
M"1,W6L/#^[`AE=GJ)$T>0?-.7JQ/6[,'^#29#LZN!5K3<_*,R16U[/5!XXD.
MO`R?*_$2<ITYBYFHYC/D.G/&_4#S$G*=.6.%,T%'/B6>WB/&DXI_)]=V#2%7
ME/HE^QWH-1+>6ZN39'4+6CXN+"ZM'KM\"(M+\VNS1X&6>U/-9N;R0<>(37VM
M=G&6<J>-MRV#'3&R@DU,>P7WFNG\L4DH\/4^BA/\A)_'`L[B/)[!\W@)K^!5
MO(;7\0;>Q%MX&^_@7;R'*W@?5_$!/L+'^`37\!FNXW-\@2_Q-6[@&WR+[_`]
M?L"/^`D_XQ?\BM_P._[`7[BI`:/ZKX%_.\J&+`76(MG2"KH!6)S0PEW2;6Q2
MSR6T[):U";!XL"WU.L;=##UV&[(2:4M$EG54=1,3%-%5C+*,CBN6%8QS(YU0
M-.CF;B/N8GHZ;W^<83D6J?,H_S:S4LP=IW26+4CF[8YQG7/NME^8OWA`'@W!
ML@6N/75N^6S=MB@)OCY+YY9K"[7%^AAEPSVF?FY!\8?<.Z]2Y]G:ZEKMN5I]
M'XU?Y%Y4KXDU<(7[V,N<Z_7:F;65U?I-XJ_H8WEEH28*UUA'8I[H*XWK!6AK
MM%H[SS/`#>(_R9]>6CGS-!?Y-U!+`0(4`!0````(`&E<?![FQ\#A:@8``&$4
M```,``````````````````````!$15-#14Y$4RY704102P4&``````$``0`Z
)````E`8`````
`
end
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:47:54 EST
Subject: Re: Stairs
Mike Duggan <mduggan@ram.ramnet.net> ,in message <Pine.3.89.9503281139.A8485-01
00000@ram.ramnet.net>, wrote:
> I'm curious, in one of the messages I've read, the person said he used a
> set of stairs over a moat. So does that mean that stairs automatically
> change to next texture/type/etc?
I know you can not change stair's textures. If there are no adjacent
sectors with the same texture, the chain will halt. In my 2-texture
staircase I used two sector chains with some fairly twisted
behind-the-scenes adjacency. Each chain had a different texture. Sector
type seems not to matter (I made one sector a blinking light. This does
not mean that another sector special will NOT prevent chain propagation).
I don't know if stairs might clear a damaging floor. I haven't tried it.
If you have a fatal moat, the person might just have to RUN across the
resultant damaging bridge. Oh well.
------------------------------
From: a13231@mindlink.bc.ca (drake o'brien)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 11:02:23 PST
Subject: re. Visplanes-R-US
Jim Elson writes:
>I had some lettering on the ground: B B Q. I was
>getting serious visiplane crashes. I had made the
>letters rather cursive.
>Interestingly these letters were NOT visible at the
>spots where it was crashing:
A recent post to r.g.c.d.e. complained about visplane crashes when
looking out into a hall and a secret door opened behind the player. All
of the responses to the post cited some current theory as well as advice,
& none of the theoretical musings took account of this central fact -
tho' all of the advice, to cut the playing area down in size in some way
or other, would probably work. (Sometimes a solution to visplane problem
is simple as placing a column or something on the spot where crash
happens.
On the level where I'm currently playing visplane tag I can only count 40
(this is a max, my 'real' count is somewhere closer to 30, but I tack
another 10 on just to be safe) 2-sided linedefs and 12 subsectors in the
field of view.
This makes me guess that there are problably several variables at play in
visplane overflow problems (light, size, height differences, & on & on).
You can't do a conclusive test when you don't know all the variables to
account for. On the other hand, when you do know all the variables
that're at play any testing you do is just to confirm the obvious.
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:28:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re. transp doors & descending stairs
> But I want to know how to make a descending staircase, that activates by a
> switch! R. Fenske Jr. says it can be done. How??? I once really wanted to
> make one of these but couldn't find a switch, and the UDS doesn't meantion
> such a thing. Now *this* might be a PNQ but HOW THE HELL DO YOU MAKE A
> DESCENDING STAIRCASE?
I think I know of a (slightly kludgy) way to do it. It won't look
perfect, but will have the overall effect you want, ie, a flat floor that
suddenly turns into a descending staircase. I had this problem when I
*first* started playing with stairs (May last year... hehe), before I had
a clue how to do them. Anyways, something like this:
++------+------+------+------+------+
|| | | | | |
|| | | | | |
|| | | | | |
|| | | | | |
|| | | | | |
++------+------+------+------+------+
^ This small sector is the "base" of your stairs. It should have a
height that you want the bottom of the descending stairs to appear
at (say -64). It should also be pixel-thin to give the effect of not even
being there (or else hide it subtly some other way in your design). All
other sectors are at normal floor level (eg 0). Then have the player hit
a trigger to activate stairs *ascending* from that sector. Since
ascending stairs will go to their correct height even if they are higher
than they should be, you will end up with a staircase that "sinks"
(immediately) into the floor. This may not have been what you want, but
it's pretty close to descending stairs.
Greg
------------------------------
From: Matthew Miller <rmiller@infinet.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:14:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: re. visplanes?
On Tue, 28 Mar 1995 tedv@geom.umn.edu wrote:
> Actually, I think there's even more than that. One time I was playing
> DOOM ][ MAP 27 and I paused the game as it was in the middle of a redraw!
> Surely complete luck that I even hit it. It had drawn some of the
> walls farther back and was in the middle of-- get this-- drawing the green
> slime pit surrounding the rocket launcher. Only when it's done repainting,
> the green slime pit is overpainted. Here's basically what my screen looked
> like (pardon the poor art-work)
>
> .--------------. The ...s are places where green slime was painted. (Note
> | | how it cut off midway through). Perhaps it's faster just
> | | to paint the picture and then paint over it with other
> | ......... | sectors later. However, this DOES show something
> | .............| interesting. Whether or not you actually see a floor or
> |....... | ceiling on screen is meaningless. The real question is,
> `--------------' "Is there a line of sight between here and the sector,
> regardless of walls?"
I've seen this happen plenty of times--turn clipping off (IDSPISPOPD in
Doom 1, IDCLIP in Doom 2) so you can walk through walls, back up through
a wall, and notice how, even though you get HOM off to the sides, the
floor trails off infinitely toward the bottom of the screen. The ceiling
will trail off infinitely toward the top, too.
My guess is that the engine does this so we don't get tiny little
cracks of HOM or leaking textures where walls meet floors and ceilings.
Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 15:48:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: DEBUNK alert
>Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu> ,in message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950327123648.14211A-100
> 000@pong.rs.itd.umich.edu>, wrote:
> Well, I just tested it, and NO you can not cause stairs to split. I was
>skeptical of this from the outset because I remember somebody's post from a
>long time ago about how much difficulty the person had creating a staircase
>that split.
>
> His solution was to tag multiple sectors to the linedef, thereby creating
>several chains at the outset.
>
> The other "solution" is to use disjoint sectors. I can also see techniques
>that use disjoint sectors whose adjacency is "behind the curtain", using
>linedefs completely outside the playing field to affect the course of events.
>If anyone is interested in an illustration of this technique, email me and
>I'll post a sample wad as soon as I implement my MakeHiddenStaircase.
Yeah....disjoint sectors, extended sectors, sectors with more than 1
polygon,
etc... have fabulous uses. One question, though....I tried to put a crushing
ceiling in my level far away from the level part, so you couldn't hear it. I
then replaced the sound with a machine hum I wanted. I had start crush lines
all around the player starts, and it did crush. I wanted the machine hum to be
heard in a portion of my level, so I tried to use these extended sctors to make
the crusher sound "jump" across the level. It didn't. Is there anything I
can do,
or am I just overlooking some kind of stupid error? ASCII Art follows:
+-----+ +------------+
| +-+ | 1 |
| 2 |1| | +---+ |
| +-+ | | 3 | |
+-----+ | +---+ |
| |
+------------+
1 is the extended sector. 2 is the room the player stands in, and is supposed
to hear the humming sound coming from the crusher in 3. Why didnt I hear the
sound?
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 16:07:04 CST
Subject: Re: Viewpoint height?
>Has anybody ever bothered to determine the *viewpoint*
>height? Using a differently sized walls, I ended up
>with 41 "units". During movement, variation seems to
This correlates with what I found out when I was playing with
the swimming pool effect (what I call it anyway). You can "drop" up to
40 units into a floor so it almost looks like it is at eye level. But
"dropping" 41 units caused the HOM effect, because now your viewpoint is
below where the surrounding floors are.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 16:11:53 CST
Subject: Re: re. visplanes?
>Actually, I think there's even more than that. One time I was playing
>DOOM ][ MAP 27 and I paused the game as it was in the middle of a redraw!
>Surely complete luck that I even hit it. It had drawn some of the
>walls farther back and was in the middle of-- get this-- drawing the green
>slime pit surrounding the rocket launcher. Only when it's done repainting,
>the green slime pit is overpainted. Here's basically what my screen looked
This makes sense. The BSP tree is a way of ordering your polygon
space so that you can simply traverse the tree to draw the farther polygons
first. So you know that closer polygons will just draw over what's already
been rendered. For rendering purposes, the only thing that really blocks a
view is a one-sided wall.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:12:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: re. visplanes?
>>To Robert Fenske Jr.: I got transparent doors to work by following
>>spchaunt.wad. But I can't get rid of HOM in the door sides. I fix it so
>>the HOM can't be seen by making the doors thin & also making them opaque
>>near the sides (I've got great stained-glass doors - wierd glass that
>>doesn't break when hit by a rocket, but ...). I haven't got spchaunt
>>handy for taking apart to see if there's HOM there too (I've got a huge
>>collection of pwads, you'd think I'd save one I actually studied!). So
>>is there any trick I'm missing here?
>
> SPCHAUNT does not have any HOM effects. The underside of the shuttle
>bay door looks funny as it's opening or closing (I never figured out why),
>but it's not a HOM effect. One of the important requirements is that the
>door sides linedefs (at least one of them anyway) be numbered lower than the
>door faces linedefs. I also think the area comprising the door should not
>be split by the node building process; obviously this is difficult to control
>since you can't know apriori how the nodes will be built. I'm not 100% sure
>on this because I haven't thought it fully through.
> I've been meaning to write a description of the transparent door
>effect but it's been low on my priority list. I think it's a neat effect.
>There are subtleties that make the effect look better and those that can
>destroy the effect.
One thing you can do to eliminate the effect is to make the door
rise fast, and use textures with the transparent section on top and
solid section on bottom.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #223
**********************************
