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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 183
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #183
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Friday, 24 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 183
Re: The Big WAD
Re: Legalities?
Re: The WAD!
Re: The WAD
Re: New WAD
Re: The Big WAD
Re: The Wad.
Re: New WAD
Re: "The WAD": Theme
Dehacked...
General Comments
"The Wad" Name Suggestion
Better goals
Re: The WAD
Re: The Wad
Proj: non-hostiles...
General Comments
Re: "The WAD": Theme
Re: "The WAD": Theme
Re: The Big WAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 1995 01:37:16 GMT
Subject: Re: The Big WAD
My ongoing SUM(2^-i, i={0..oo}) cents in the Heretic vs. DOOM
battle for control of THE WAD and ultimate world domination:
I agree with Raphael about splitting the project into a .WAD only
for DOOM and a .WAD + patches + everything for Heretic. The only
thing is, if we do replace every episode, we'll want a minor
DeHackEd patch to replace the level-names on the automap and the
end-mission text.
I also agree that we should use DOOM I. I have both DOOM I and
DOOM ][ and I think most people who have ][ also have I. The
intermission screens are a nice touch (we'd have to draw our own,
of course). And any explanatory text can be on the Help screen
and/or the end-mission text.
- -j
/
The Home Page of Deth /
http://maniac.cwru.edu/~deth/ /
/
Feel the Dragon's Fire... /
/
/
/ J e r e m y H o l l a n d
============================| C a s e W e s t e r n R e s e r v e
\ j d h 1 5 @ p o . c w r u . e d u
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
------------------------------
From: thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 17:49:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Legalities?
>
> I don't know about the legalities of the thing, but I think that id is
> mostly concerned with making sure that they get money for the game DOOM
> and DOOM II. Since you'll need one of these to run THE WAD, it seems
> that id will get what they want (ie: sales of their game) and anything
> that happens after that is ok! It's like buying 3rd party engine parts
> for your car after you buy it, except there's no charge for this part
> (THE WAD!).
>
> - Jim
>
Sounds reasonable. I'd just like to see this thing (these things) turn
out well and become the 'must-haves' we hope they will.
Brian
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 20:54:42 -0500
Subject: Re: The WAD!
>ok, anyone who can meet on IRC on say #thewad on Sunday at 8pm EST.
>cyu all there..
I can be there for that chat, anyone else? That's sunday the 26th right?
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 20:56:58 -0500
Subject: Re: The WAD
>> [nothing was here...just needed a subject]
> I had an idea...how about getting everyone involved
>in the Project to send in a picture of themselves and
>what they are doing. Then someone could scan these in and
>out them in textures. Then, we could have a level (probably
>the last one) where the player goes into a museum to see all
>the creators. The museum room would be very dark, and no
>monsters could go in there. However, where the pictures are
>on the wall, it would be brightened by torches. I would like
>to do this level, and maybe others, when we are ready to do
>levels (of course, if most people like the idea :) But,
>I can't scan the pictures in. So, whadda you think? A kind
>credits level, with each person's name and picture.
> -- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
>
AWESOME idea!! I have access to a 400dpi color scanner, which ain't great,
but I'd be happy to do the scans. How many people are we talking about anyway?
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 21:01:25 -0500
Subject: Re: New WAD
>>I think it would be easiest to set up an ftp site, mail everyone the
>>password, and add this site to a web page as well.
>
>Thats the best idea I have heard yet, now who can do it!!? That would seem
>the only logical way to actually get this thing done!!
>
>Tom (Clock Paradox)
>
> AOL is a friggin PARADOX!!
>
Absolutely! An ftp site would be awesome. How do we do that? If ANYONE
out there knows how we can get a site, post the method!!! We need this.
I'm doing the WWW page, but I don't have access to enough disk space on my
server to hold all the patches, unless we want to collectively pay 2 bucks a
meg per month for storage. That would be fine with me, but I have to have
everyone's commitment to pay their share per month.
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 03:09:44 +0100
Subject: Re: The Big WAD
On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, Jeremy Holland <jdh15@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
> I agree with Raphael about splitting the project into a .WAD only
> for DOOM and a .WAD + patches + everything for Heretic. The only
> thing is, if we do replace every episode, we'll want a minor
> DeHackEd patch to replace the level-names on the automap and the
> end-mission text.
>
Thank for your "seal of approval". But I think that we should stay
away from DeHackEd patches for the "simple" project which should
be WAD-only. We can already change the episode names because they
are standalone graphics. We cannot change the level names without
hacking the EXE. I guess we should consider this as one more reason
to use a Doom-like theme in this "simple" project.
> I also agree that we should use DOOM I. I have both DOOM I and
> DOOM ][ and I think most people who have ][ also have I.
Hmmm... I would say "most of the experienced people". Several
people discovered Doom by buying Doom II in the shops. Some (most?)
of them didn't register Doom 1. This WAD project would be a good
reason for them to register!
> The
> intermission screens are a nice touch (we'd have to draw our own,
> of course). And any explanatory text can be on the Help screen
> and/or the end-mission text.
>
Exactly. I hope that you will all vote for Doom 1...
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 21:23:55 -0500
Subject: Re: The Wad.
>I may be able to get a spot to put it on the server I do through (the
>joys of knowing the systems admin... But of course I'll have to ask... If
>this would be convenient let me know and I'll see if I can make it so.
>Oh, Please don't ask me to until there is a project leader so we don't
>end up having it all over the place.
>
>-jminadeo@cybercon.com
>
That would definitely be cool. Please ask your friend if it could work out.
I plan to call for some votes on themes, names, engines, etc. So that
should bring about some sort of organization for this thing...
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 03:27:50 +0100
Subject: Re: New WAD
On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, setc@together.net (Ross Carlson) wrote:
> [no attribution line for quoted text - sigh!]
> >>I think it would be easiest to set up an ftp site, mail everyone the
> >>password, and add this site to a web page as well.
> Absolutely! An ftp site would be awesome. How do we do that? If ANYONE
> out there knows how we can get a site, post the method!!! We need this.
> I'm doing the WWW page, but I don't have access to enough disk space on my
> server to hold all the patches, [...]
Well, I already have my ftp server for the DEU developpers, and I could add
a new guest account for this WAD project. But I'm reluctant to do that,
because:
- - My server is in Belgium (that's in Europe, just in case you aren't sure...)
and the transfer rate could be slow for people overseas.
- - I am the main author of DEU, and as such the users of other editors could
think that the project is biased. I don't want this to happen: everyone
should be free to use their editor of choice (as long as it doesn't suck
and creates good levels). The more variety, the better.
- - I would feel better if someone else could maintain the ftp stuff, because
I'm lazy...
Creating an ftp site is simple... as long as you are the system administrator.
Unfortunately, becoming a sysadmin is not very simple. But I'm sure that
some other people on this list are sysadmins or co-admins or at least maintain
some ftp site. Anyone? Hello...?
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: johnsond@std.teradyne.com (Dean Johnson)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 18:37:54 PST
Subject: Re: "The WAD": Theme
l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU sez...
> levels and analyze Texture choices etc... This upper panel will have the final
> say on what is in the levels, but should work with the designers to keep the
> original "feel" that they intended with their level. Just a few thought from
> me...
Regarding the Doom Appoval Board (DAB?), I agree. It's a necessary evil
since without it we can't guarantee the continuty and quality of the
levels. Furthermore, to speed the process and avoid work that is later
discarded, simple layout sketches and texture selections could be
approved before any wad work takes place.
Maybe even have a list of suggested cosmetic niceties. Some off the
top of my head...
Make use of lighting and shadows.
Try to make the spaces interesting
(For examples, see the jagged "roof pieces" and matching
shadows over the BFG penninsula in idmap01)
Analyze the texture combinations from some of your favorite
looking wads. Note, stuff like the various "support" textures
used for veritical beams in many of Id's levels.
Use decorative objects.
Obviously, we also need marked exits, DM/co-op starts, consitesnt implementaiton of difficulty levels.
- -D
- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean Johnson - johnsond@teradyne.com - Back off man, I'm a Computer Scientist!
------------------------------
From: adu001@bigcat.missouri.edu
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 22:14:00 -0500
Subject: Dehacked...
Is there a version of dehacked for Doom or Doom 2 v1.9?
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 22:18:41 -0500
Subject: General Comments
I would like to propose that we concentrate on making good LEVELS for our
wad. New graphics, sounds etc. would be nice, but why try to re-invent the
wheel? Id obviously did something right when they created the monsters and
stuff for Doom. We should make a new set of levels, where we come up with a
theme, and then use textures that are consistent with each other to create
the feel of each level. New textures could be made for specific areas of
the level, to support the theme. An example: I recently played a level
where the author created a texture that looked like glass with a warning
sign stating "radiation suits required beyond this point". When you went
past this sign, you were in acid. That's what I'm getting at. Use
textures, and sounds that reinforce the theme. If we stick with the
original concept of doom, the project will have a backbone.
BTW, my WWW page should be up soon. The administrators at my server site
admitted that they gave me incorrect instructions, so I can freely blame
them! :) Again the URL is:
http://together.net/~setc/public/thewad.html
If you try it right now, as of the time of this writing, you'll get an
error. But keep an eye out for it.
Do you guys want to have a vote on names, themes, etc? My web page will
list all proposed names, but if I'm going to list all proposed themes, you
need to re-send them, or a summary, to my e-mail. I will add them to the
page as soon as I get them. I will then call for a vote, what does everyone
think?
Please respond asap.
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: doomhead@thone.demon.co.uk (DoomHead)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 03:04:30 GMT
Subject: "The Wad" Name Suggestion
Just my tuppence worth:
"Doom: The Next Generation"
(or how about)
"Doom: Generations"
Regards,
Andy
- --
* Andy Sawyer ** e-mail:andys@thone.demon.co.uk ** Compu$erve:100432,1713 **
The opinions expressed above are my own, but you are granted the right to
use and freely distribute them. I accept no responsibility for any injury,
harm or damage arising from their use. -- The Management.
------------------------------
From: DTeeter@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 22:58:40 -0500
Subject: Better goals
Hi,
I sense a great deal of flailing on the list right now.
I have these suggestions:
1. First, realize that 3D is a new and an entirely different media from film.
Please don't remake a movie!
The Aliens wads are an astounding technical acheivment, but was anyone
surprised or amazed when they saw the Aliens, eggs, or crab-guys? Was there
any sense of discovery?
Why not come up with an original theme so that the people who enter the world
we create see something new!
I like the idea of creating a modern world, cyber-punk type of theme. A kind
of David Lynchian twilight-zone twist on real life. What if not all the
monsters attacked you? You would have to figure them out as you went along,
or you could use them for cover. What if a monster was turned into a marading
bus? What if picking up an thing caused a clue to appear on your monitor?
i.e. "go down the stairs" instead of "you picked up health" ... just some
ideas
Also, because one of the best attractions of Doom is raw violence, one stated
goal should be to make "The Wad" even more violent, with more gore, bigger
explosions, more gnarly sounds, etc., but with a balance of quiet parts to
make the violent parts seem that much more intense.
2. The levels should only be created *after* the hacks, sprites, etc are set
in stone. The levels must be designed with the overall theme, monsters, and
weapons in mind. They shouldn't be patched together with old wads gathering
dust in someone's hard drive.
3. We need to create an E-mail ballot with multiple choice voting capability
(put the x between the parenthesis ( ) etc.)
Once the ballot is designed, mail it out on the list, replies will be
addresed to a temporary mailing list and counted, announced etc.
I would like to help out with textures, Skys etc. (If you've seen
Surreal1or2.wad you know I can make some cool textures)
Later on,
DTeeter@aol.com or inchq.com
------------------------------
From: Adam J Lewandowski <alewando@uceng.uc.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 22:52:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: The WAD
On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, John Romero wrote:
>
> By the way, our new programmer is . . . .
>
>
> Michael Abrash! He will be here Saturday and officially start on Monday! Oh,
> yes. Quake will rule the cosmos. And for much longer than DOOM could hope
> for. Just had to stir the pot -- talk to y'all later!
Wow! I'm convinced. Quake will rule the cosmos, AND THEN SOME! When does
he start and what will he be doing? (Graphics work I assume)
Wow again. Unbelieveable. You guys are fucking geniouses.
- ---
alewando@uceng.uc.edu
------------------------------
From: Jim Elson <jlelson@utdallas.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 22:08:41 -0600
Subject: Re: The Wad
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, Larry Mulcahy wrote:
> Other thoughts: I like (make-believe) killing PEOPLE with REAL-WORLD
> WEAPONS. It should be DOOM or DOOM2, not HERETIC. I favor a
> present-day or near-future scenario. BLADE RUNNER would be awesome.
> Your job is to "retire" countless sociopathic but mostly human-looking
> replicants, many with various superhuman abilities needed to perform
> slave labor in the harsh conditions of outer space. Seek them out in
> the industrial hells where they flee to avoid the prying eyes of the
> curious. Visit the UAC asteroid mining space station and singlehandedly
> put down the replicant rebellion before it can rage out of control.
> Travel into the bowels of the subway system, mowing down wave after wave
> of inhuman flesh to come to grips with the awful replicant Fuhrer. Or
> what about ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK... Manhattan has been walled about and
> transformed into a maximum security prison...
I think these are best themes mentioned so far, IMHO.
BTW, I've volunteer to do some level testing.
Also, I vote for the Doom 2 engine.
- --Jim
============================================================================
James L Elson: |<o When you stare into the abyss too long o>|
School of Arts & Humanities |<o the abyss stares back into you. o>|
University of Texas-Dallas | --Nietzsche-- |
------------------------------
From: bennes@rpi.edu (Scott Benner)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 23:14:52 -0500
Subject: Proj: non-hostiles...
I read a few messages ago that someone was wondering if you can make "monsters"
that follow you around. From my meagre hacking, I THINK you can set their
near damage attack to 0...
My question is: can you remove the hostility from the monsters? I'm looking
for the Syndicate effect; just people wandering down the street, running in
fear at the sound of a gun. Its probably impossible, you'd need to code new
responce patterns, but I'm wondering if anyone ever attempted this?
It'd be really cool... Monsters that don't respond by sight but by your
gunshot sounds...
- -- Scott Benner
oh, sorry if my messages seem to be a few behind. I send them off, but then
they don't return for hours. Meanwhile, people have already responded to what
I responded to, and you get the point.
Mailing time: 11:15 p.m. Thurs
------------------------------
From: mark.mathews@channel1.com (Mark Mathews)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 23:16:00 -0500
Subject: General Comments
- -> I would like to propose that we concentrate on making good LEVELS for
- -> our wad. New graphics, sounds etc. would be nice, but why try to
- -> re-invent the wheel? Id obviously did something right when they
- -> created the monsters and
And make wads as fast as possible. Quake is around the corner!!
Mark Mathews
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 23:35:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: "The WAD": Theme
On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Dean Johnson wrote:
> Regarding the Doom Appoval Board (DAB?), I agree. It's a necessary evil
> since without it we can't guarantee the continuty and quality of the
> levels. Furthermore, to speed the process and avoid work that is later
> discarded, simple layout sketches and texture selections could be
> approved before any wad work takes place.
I don't think a layout sketch or texture selection should be mandatory
for creating a level. I do my work without putting anything down on
paper first, and design as I go, and yet I still create good levels.
Some people just don't work as well if they have to come up with a
concrete structure beforehand. After the level is done, sure, fine, by
all means critique it, but not before.
> Maybe even have a list of suggested cosmetic niceties. Some off the
> top of my head...
>
> Make use of lighting and shadows.
>
> Try to make the spaces interesting
>
> Analyze the texture combinations from some of your favorite
> looking wads. Note, stuff like the various "support" textures
> used for veritical beams in many of Id's levels.
>
> Use decorative objects.
These *should* be a given for all levels we make. I know they are for
my stuff. =-]
> Obviously, we also need marked exits, DM/co-op starts, consitesnt
> implementaiton of difficulty levels.
That could be a stickler... how do we do difficulty levels? I don't
think a "formula" will work, since each WAD will be different, and yet
how can we judge objectively? (But uniformity IS good, in case I'm
coming across wrong here.)
Greg
------------------------------
From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 05:45:16 +0100
Subject: Re: "The WAD": Theme
On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Dean Johnson wrote:
> > Obviously, we also need marked exits, DM/co-op starts, consitesnt
> > implementaiton of difficulty levels.
>
> That could be a stickler... how do we do difficulty levels? I don't
> think a "formula" will work, since each WAD will be different, and yet
> how can we judge objectively? (But uniformity IS good, in case I'm
> coming across wrong here.)
>
Hmmm... I know I should not say this, but anyway: wait until DEU 5.3 is
released. Then you will see how you can compare the difficulty levels
automatically. I wanted to keep this as a surprise, but I can't
resist... :-)
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 1995 05:37:11 GMT
Subject: Re: The Big WAD
Raphael wrote:
> ...We cannot change the level names without
> hacking the EXE. I guess we should consider this as one more reason
> to use a Doom-like theme in this "simple" project...
Gives me another idea for a theme:
There's been some talk about how excellent iD's levels are,
and I agree, except for one minor point: What is level one? "The
Hangar" Does it look like a hangar? Not to me. We could try
writing 27 levels, each one actually looks like what it's called.
Obviously on some (Deimos Anomoly, Dis) we'd have free reign, but
"Military base," "Command center" etc. could be made to look like
their namesakes...
just a thought, my one for the day...
- -j
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Pedir a tu corazon que me quiere un poco
No quedo vivir sin ti tu me tiene loco
Ay me estoy muriendo si no viene pronto
Pedir a tu corazon
-Reyes/Baliardo
Jeremy D. A. Holland
jdh15@po.cwru.edu
http://maniac.cwru.edu/~deth/
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #183
**********************************
