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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 187
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #187
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Saturday, 25 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 187
Re: The Wad
Re: "The WAD" Counter
Re: The Wad: Difficulty Levels
Re: "The WAD": Theme
general..
HOW TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE WAD-TEAM
Re: THE WAD - Update part2
Re: The WAD
Re: "The WAD": Theme
Re: The Wad
** DCK 2.1B PUBLIC RELEASE **
Wad-base report #1
Re: (Fwd) Re: The Wad!
Re: "The WAD": Theme
Re: The project has seized control
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 18:53:57 CST
Subject: Re: The Wad
> Okay okay okay... So what's up with The Wad? Doom or Doom 2?
> Doom 2 has a heck of a lot more features and a faster engine
> than Doom.. I have clocked proof of this.
Highly unlikely. Check out the size of your DOOM exe. Check out the size
of your DOOM2 exe. CRC check them if you want. They are the same. The
only way that one could appear faster than another would be by having a
level with more or less detail. And remember that the same monsters that
are only in DOOM ][ are coded into the DOOM exe; it's just that the sprites
aren't included in the wad, so DOOM crashes when it tries to load the object.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 15:30:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: "The WAD" Counter
>On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, Michael Biggs <mbiggs@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
>[...things about the vote for Doom vs. Doom II vs. Heretic ...]
>> so far the response hasn't been great (how many are subscribed to this
>> group exactly?) but the results are 13 in favour of DOOM and 6 in favour
>> of HERETIC.
>>
>As of today, there are 412 people on this list. Not bad... I think you
>should wait a bit before counting the votes. Most people haven't read your
>first message yet.
>
>Anyway, I think we should have several votes:
>1) - Do we split the project in two?
>2) - If we split the project, what engine will be used for the first WAD?
>3) - And what engine will be used for the second WAD + DeHackEd patches?
>
>The difference between Doom 1 and Doom 2 should also be noted, because
>Doom 2 doesn't have the same intermission screens (the other differences
>between the two games can be solved in the WAD).
>-Raphael
My votes are:
1) Yes.
2) Doom 1
3) Doom 1
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 19:33:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: The Wad: Difficulty Levels
>jdh15 <jdh15@po.cwru.edu> suggests...
> [lots deleted about difficulty settings]
I agree completely. We need to come up with a standard for the levels.
Someone (or more than 1 person) needs to write something detailing the
max # of stuff on every difficulty level. Last time I checked, the FAQ
only listed stuff on UV. Also, this can't happen until an engine is picked
for both projects. I especially need this info, since I am the level
design coordinator (check TWM2029@aol.com list posted recently). I need
this to keep a certain continuity between levels, while still allowing
designers to have the effect they intended.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 20:06:27 -0500
Subject: Re: "The WAD": Theme
> I hate to be negative, but, if I had started this project on my own I'd
>have 4 levels done already. The rate you guys are going this wad thing will
>never happen. Did you ever hear the story that after a certain amount of
>people a project will actually start taking longer? Well, its happening
>right here. 50 new messages every 8 hours on the average and nothing has
>even been done yet except to put up a web site (which of course only took
>one person to do). Before you guys do anything might I suggest you figure
>out WHO is going to work on this "project" and once you do the decision
>process will go a bit faster because the only people that will be deciding
>things are the people that are actually working on it.
>
> -Scott
OK everyone, Scott's got a point here. We've been at it how long? And what
have we got? I think we need to appoint a co-ordinator of co-ordinators.
This person will propose what needs to be proposed, take votes on what needs
voting on, and then appoint tasks to those who are willing. We have a
pretty good base of people, and what they want to do. I nominate myself for
the position. I really just wanted to do the web page, but I'm having fun
replying to all this mail, and setting up the page. So here's my campaign
spew: If elected, I will look at the voting results on wether or not we
split the project, then see who wants to contribute to what side of the
project, then we'll appoint another co-ordinator for the lesser popular of
the two projects. I for one would be happy to co-ordinate the level only
project. I also move that we shift this discussion to that other list that
was mentioned.
Once we have determined who is committed to what project, we will decide on
a theme, and begin making levels. Levels will be assigned to individuals or
groups, and deadlines will be set for completion, at which time the levels
will undergo playtesting. The theme will have to be fairly descriptive to
allow for continuity within episodes (note - I want to use doom one, for
it's episode structure). Once the levels pass quality control, we will
assemble them and go for a beer.
For the smaller of the two projects, I think we should allow some minor
graphics alteration, and new sounds to support the theme we are trying for.
These sounds could be used across the project to give more continuity.
That's where I stand on this. I believe that appointing a co-ordinator is
the only way to move forward with this project.
Let's get the ball rolling guys!!!
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: "A.R Paterson" <A.R.Paterson@durham.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 22:38:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: general..
although my first post, i've been keeping an eye on 'The-Wad' debate, iit
certaiinly is going to be a tremedous project to get together, and with
the interest shown, it will hopefully produce a pwad that will be one of
the best available to download...
as for engine....power wise, heretic has the extra bells and whistles on,
and although the game is different, graphics wise, it could be made to be
doomesque.... however the other side is the widespread use of doom I &
II, each of which has its merits.....if there were two projects going on,
one for each of the doom's,then maybe a linkage of following on from one
another in theme so as to avoid overlap, you would in turn end up with an
immense game-plan, that would please owners of either I or II and those
with both, without limiting the input of 'The Wad' designers who have a
preference on engine....
regarding eventual distrubution, the Pwad will be large (!) , as well as
ftp sites & bbs's , would there be a problem (legally) in providing a
known mailing address by which to order the wad, the only cost being cost
of disks and postage ??
Let the ideas roll....
L8r,
Alex.
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 17:21:22 -0500
Subject: HOW TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE WAD-TEAM
[the postmaster interjects: this was intercepted by the server since
it looked a little too much like a clueless user wanting to be taken
off the list -- so I want to take the opportunity to say that
doom-editing isn't going away; some people may be moved to the
digested version if this traffic level stays, but they will be free
to move back, and the list itself isn't going away]
Sorry for the repeat, after that administrative comment I thought
this needed an easier to understand subject.
This is how to subscribe to the WAD-TEAM where I think we should move
this project. Again, Let's go before we break this server.
- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date: 24-Feb-95 14:44:17 -0500
From: mtg@peak.org (Mike T. Gholson)
To: JOHNW@DSC (John Wakelin)
Subject: Re: The Wad!
From: mtg@peak.org (Mike T. Gholson)
>> Go for it.....
>
>Ok I've posted the suggestion to the list. If they decide to go for
>it I will need to give them the subscribing information. Could you
>send that to me (I lost it)?
>
- ------------
Here's the format:
Send Email to majordomo@peak.org (our domain used to be csos.orst.edu)
In the body of that message include on ONE LINE this text:
subscribe wad-team
That's it.
+===========================================================+
| MIKE T. GHOLSON - mtg@peak.org - http://www.peak.org/~mtg |
| PEAK Staff Member - Computer Science Outreach Services |
| Instructor - Getting Started & Email and SLIP Services |
| Hardware Engineer - Dial-In Network Administrator |
+===========================================================+
| OUR NEW DOMAIN IS "PEAK.ORG" - Formerly CSOS.ORST.EDU |
+===========================================================+
- --------------------end----------------------
------------------------------
From: John Doggett <dogman@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 13:17:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: THE WAD - Update part2
I want to assist, but I don't want to be categorized as such. I want to
design a level, but that may involve creating new graphics or sound fx,
both of which I am capable of producing.
(I can't really tell which WAD group this falls under)
The whole semblant strategy is kind of vague right now.
Okay. We've established that we need to establish a theme. It took
about a week, but we did it. But there's more.
- -----------
Administration details (sounds ugly doesn't it?).
- -----------
Let's think about this: take that list you have there, and part the
contributing participants into teams (pretty much done already).
Call them (for lack of anything creative):
Level Design
Graphics Support
Sound Support
Review Board
I don't see how we could have a review board and not let everyone on it,
so maybe it should be disregarded, at least as a seperate entity.
There is no restriction on cross-team membership.
- --------------
The breakdown:
- --------------
We need to break the theme down and encapsulate it into a number of
levels, all of which will have a predetermined setting and subplot, which
will be fluent and progressive with the Theme.
Then the members of the Level Design team bid for the levels they want to
create.
At that point, the level designers will know what the theme is, what
portion of the theme they want to implement, and, therefore, will be able
to decide what graphics and sound they will need in order to implement
it/them.
They will then be able to bid for "graphic replacement space" or "sound
replacement space" and request that new graphics or sounds of some nature
be created by the Graphics or Sound Support teams, or else draw from the
store of graphics & sounds those respective teams have already prepared.
Furthermore, the graphics support (GS) team should decide on a pool of
standard textures and sprites from which the level designers will be
*required* to draw (to any extent), in order to establish an air of
uniformity throughout the levels.
This implies an inevitable mutual dependance. This also means that GS will
be forced to maintain how and where new graphics will be used, how many
more graphics can be afforded in the final distribution, and to grant
requests accordingly.
Graphic requests from members of Level Design may be adopted to the
standard graphics pool (SGP?).
The SGP, sounds, and levels (as they are completed) will be continuously
submitted for general review, after which time revisions may or may not
need to be made.
- ----------------
What do you think? Workable? We seem to be stuck on the very first item:
Theme.
If it's going to be the regular doom thing, we need to establish a plot
progression, and sketch level subplots. If it isn't, there's even more
work.
-=John Doggett=- | All I ever wanted was a
dogman@u.washington.edu | cranial link to the internet.
http://umm.../working/on.it | Is that too much to ask?
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 16:25:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: The WAD
>On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, John Romero wrote:
>
>>
>> By the way, our new programmer is . . . .
>>
>>
>> Michael Abrash! He will be here Saturday and officially start on Monday!
Oh,
>> yes. Quake will rule the cosmos. And for much longer than DOOM could hope
>> for. Just had to stir the pot -- talk to y'all later!
>
>Wow! I'm convinced. Quake will rule the cosmos, AND THEN SOME! When does
>he start and what will he be doing? (Graphics work I assume)
>Wow again. Unbelieveable. You guys are fucking geniouses.
>
>---
>alewando@uceng.uc.edu
>
Sorry...who is Michael Abrash? He must be cool, cause you guys
hired him.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca (Enigma)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 19:32:55 -0800
Subject: Re: "The WAD": Theme
>Let's get the ball rolling guys!!!
The ball _is_ rolling. On a project like this, however, it tends to roll
slowly at first.
I have created a data-base called wad-base that you can send mail to. Here's
a copy of the message I sent earlier today describing its use:
I've set up a very informal database to collect information from people
wishing to contribute to the wad project.
*This is only for those people who wish to contribute to a Doom 1 or 2 based
add-on project (not a total-remake ie. Aliens-TC). Understand: I'm only
interested in people who wish to continue id's original Doom theme. Please
do not send me a reply if you want to do a Jurassic Park or David Letterman
remake: this is for UAC, death, and hell -- not the stay-puffed marshmallow man.
Please send me email with the subject "wad-base" containing any number of
the following words to indicate your participation in the project, do not
include descriptions: ONE WORD ONLY separated by carriage returns (enters):
levels - I want to be a level editor for the project
textures - I want to be a texture editor for the project
sounds - I want to be a sound editor for the project
music - I am a MIDI musician who can write songs for the project
have-scanner - I have a scanner, and will use it for the project
have-video - I have a video camera and will use it for the project
artist - I am an artist, and can draw at id's level or higher
playtesting - I wish to test the levels for playability etc. (NEW)
...Followed by your email address.
Example:
SUBJECT: wad-base
- -------------------------
levels
sounds
askbill@microsoft.com
BTW: Please fill in as few fields as you can. Only type "artist" if you
really think you can draw wall-panels as well as id can. Thank you very much
for participating. I will post results periodically. If you have any
questions, please email me with the subject "wad-base-help" and I will
gladly give you some.
***************************************************************************
enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca>
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 22:39:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: The Wad
> Okay okay okay... So what's up with The Wad? Doom or Doom 2?
> Doom 2 has a heck of a lot more features and a faster engine
> than Doom.. I have clocked proof of this.
That's funny... as of 1.8 and 1.9 Doom and Doom 2 are identical.
Strange that identical programs are different speeds.
:)
^--for the caustic-and-biting-wit impaired
Greg
------------------------------
From: bmorris@islandnet.com (Ben Morris)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 19:50 PST
Subject: ** DCK 2.1B PUBLIC RELEASE **
Heeeeeeeere's the textfile! -
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
DCK - DOOM Construction Kit
Version 2.1 (386 Protected Mode)
Code and design by Ben Morris / Zerius Development
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Information (2.1) bmorris@islandnet.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS A BETA RELEASE OF 2.1. The full release is forthcoming,
including the coveted New Documentation. This beta is very
stable.
- -----------
Overview
- -----------
A DOS-based Graphical editor for creating maps for id Software's
games: DOOM, DOOM 2, and Heretic.
DCK is a powerful editor that allows you to create maps much faster
than any similar program. Its unobtrusive automated tools take care
of many of the mundane tasks involved in creating maps, yet still
afford you complete control over the design of your levels.
DCK has everything you'd expect from an editor:
o Support for all three ID games
o A build-in of Colin Reed's BSP v1.2x node builder
o A texture display and search facility
o Runs each game from within the editor
o Support for textures in external files (ie; files other than the
IWAD). DCK is fully compatible with DEUTEX and any similar utility.
o Automated and manual texture alignment
o A clipboard with Cut, Copy and Paste - even between files
o Full drag and drop functions
o Creates huge maps
o Graphical display of "things": shows every sprite as it appears
in the game, with the exception of monsters and player starts
o Rotate and scale objects to any size
o One of the best map checkers around - logs all the errors and lets
you browse them individually. DCK can even fix most of them
unaided.
o Operates in 256-color SVGA in 32-bit Protected Mode
New features for 2.1 include:
o UNDO FEATURE - a first!
o Much better PWAD texture support
o More customizable options
o Enhanced: Sector splits, snap to vertex, clipboard and drag-and-drop.
o New tools: Polygon and Rectangle creators
o Complete .WAD management tool! Add, delete and rename entries in
existing WADfiles, and create entirely new .WADs with multiple levels
quickly and easily.
o A popup toolbox on the right mouse button
o Neat features like the middle mouse-button zoom
o Floor / ceiling texture browser
o Bugs fixed.
- -----------
In depth
- -----------
DCK is almost intelligent: its line drawing tool lets you design
regions of any shape and size, and automatically completes them for
you. For example, if you draw a square inside of an existing sector,
DCK will make the square's lines two-sided and set them to reference
both the new and the parent sectors.
If you want to create an extension from or split an existing sector,
just double-click where you want to start, draw the new sector, and
right-click at the endpoint. The rest is handled by DCK - even if it
requires adding vertices on existing lines.
DCK has lots of other helpful features like:
o An automated tag set function. Mark a series of lines or sectors
and press Ctrl+T. Then just click on the object to tag the marked
objects to.
o A "format painter" that allows you to copy an object's attributes
to any number of marked objects. Copy sector appearances and
heights, line types and tags, thing skill levels, etc.
o "Motifs" - series of defaults that DCK uses to decorate new sectors
and lines. You can define lots of motifs for each game and switch
between them with a few keystrokes.
If you're new to doom editing and this all sounds way complicated,
don't worry! Part of DCK's user friendliness when compared with other
editors is its intuitiveness to the new level author. Although DCK
does not attempt to hide any of the complexities of map editing, it
eases the learning curve by providing an easily understood interface
to every element of level design. After the first few hours with DCK,
you'll probably have mastered many of the concepts - and because DCK
uses an interface similar to that of many popular software packages
such as Windows, you most likely won't find any problem in navigating
it.
DCK is freeware - there is no registration required (but donations are
acceptable :)
- ---------------
Requirements
- ---------------
- About 800k of disk space
- A 386, 486 or Pentium-based computer
- A SuperVGA or VESA compatible display (minimum of 640x480x256.)
- A mouse
- DOOM 1, DOOM 2, or Heretic (registered versions only!)
- ----------
Where?!
- ----------
DCK is available at the following locations. It should be under the
filename "DCKnn.ZIP" (where nn is the version, eg: 21 for 2.1)
FTP -
Always at:
ftp.cdrom.com /pub/doom2/wad_edit/editors
Maybe at:
wuarchive.wustl.edu
ftp.uwp.edu
BBS -
Software Creations 1-508-368-7139
Channel 1 1-617-354-3137
Other -
Compuserve ACTION forum, browse for DCK.ZIP
- -------------------
Acknowledgements
- -------------------
Code and design
Ben Morris bmorris@islandnet.com
Node builder
Colin Reed colin@argonaut.com
Additional assistance and ideas
James Atchison ua132@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
Scott Amspoker scott@basis.com
Bob Findlay findlay@bbsrc.ac.uk
Scott Crank scrank@holli.com
Andy Richards 100102.3262@compuserve.com
###
- ---------------------------------------------- * --------------------
the felix of your truth will always break it / Ben Morris
and the iris of your eye always shake it / ..your typical CN
- -- "Iris" / Live -------------------------- / -----------------------
revel in your perception * bmorris@islandnet.com
------------------------------
From: hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca (Enigma)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 20:47:56 -0800
Subject: Wad-base report #1
So far, this is the response to my survey of jobs for the project:
Level Editors:
dowswea@aa.wl.com
thekid@ornews.intel.com
johnsond@teradyne.com
dteeter@aol.com
ogiswise@rahul.net
gregl@umich.edu
Swift1@PowerGrid.Electriciti.Com
hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca
Texture designer/editors:
johnsond@teradyne.com
dteeter@aol.com
Sound editors:
hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca
Artists:
dteeter@aol.com
- -----------------------------
If you wish to contribute to the building of a partial doom addition, please:
1) send me EMAIL (hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca)
2) in the subject place "wad-base"
3) in the message body place any number of the following and nothing
else (one word per line only):
levels - I want to be a level editor for the project
textures - I want to be a texture editor for the project
sounds - I want to be a sound editor for the project
music - I am a MIDI musician who can write songs for the project
have-scanner - I have a scanner, and will use it for the project
have-video - I have a video camera and will use it for the project
artist - I am an artist, and can draw at id's level or higher
playtesting - I wish to test the levels for playability etc. (NEW)
4) type in your email address
Example:
SUBJECT: wad-base
- -------------------------
levels
sounds
askbill@microsoft.com
BTW: Please fill in as few fields as you can. Only type "artist" if you
really think you can draw wall-panels as well as id can. Thank you very much
for participating. I will post results periodically. If you have any
questions, please email me with the subject "wad-base-help" and I will
gladly give you some.
The database is being processed by a quicky hack quick basic program, so
please please please only enter one of the words listed above. It means
extra work for me if you don't. Thanks!
***************************************************************************
enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca>
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 00:50:06 -0500
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: The Wad!
>Ok,
>
>Here is the subscribing info from Mike for how to get on the WAD-TEAM
>Let's go before we break this server.
>
>John
>
>------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
>Date: 24-Feb-95 14:44:17 -0500
>From: mtg@peak.org (Mike T. Gholson)
>To: JOHNW@DSC (John Wakelin)
>Subject: Re: The Wad!
>
> From: mtg@peak.org (Mike T. Gholson)
>
>>> Go for it.....
>>
>>Ok I've posted the suggestion to the list. If they decide to go for
>>it I will need to give them the subscribing information. Could you
>>send that to me (I lost it)?
>>
>------------
>
>Here's the format:
>
> Send Email to majordomo@peak.org (our domain used to be csos.orst.edu)
>
> In the body of that message include on ONE LINE this text:
>
> subscribe wad-team
>
>That's it.
>
>
OK everyone, let's go over there, all posts should now be going to wad-team.
I've done it - who's next?
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 25 Feb 1995 06:09:12 GMT
Subject: Re: "The WAD": Theme
Ross (setc) sez:
> I think we need to appoint a co-ordinator of co-ordinators. I
> nominate myself for the position.
[campaign spiel and plan deleted]
way to go!
you have my vote. Furthermore, I think your plan is great. Like I
said, I'll write levels, but I'm no beaurocrat.
- -j
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
ASPARAGUS is available year-round but is at its best in the spring.
-Look for plump, crisp, straight, unshriveled stems and tightly furled tips.
-Refrigerate in a moist wrapper for no more than a couple of days.
-Asparagus is rich in vitamins A and C.
-The stalks have been a treasured food since ancient times.
<from the Cleveland Plain Dealer, April 6th, 1994>
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Jeremy Holland
jdh15@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
http://maniac.cwru.edu/~deth/
Cleveland, Ohio
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 01:23:28 -0500
Subject: Re: The project has seized control
>It has been my estimate that Doom would start dying
>down sometime this year. It still seems like it's going
>strong right now, but as Romero says, within a few
>months of Quake being released, Doom will be a fast
>fading (but fond) memory. (Of course, all the good wads
>will get converted to Quake, which will ease the transition).
>
>I will not be surprised if THE WAD project is never finished.
>
>In the meantime, perhaps non-project related messages could
>have a *-* marker placed in their subject? Get it? <grin>
That's nice, Matt. But the rest of us would still like something to do
until Quake comes along, what if Quake doesn't come out for another year?
BTW, we are moving this discussion to another list, so we'll be out of your
way. And if the project never gets finished, it doesn't really matter. I'm
sure lots of good levels will come out of it, and there's nothing wrong with
generating a little creativity anyway. You might even see some of our wads
get converted to Quake.
Dont't be so negative!
- -Ross
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #187
**********************************
