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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 210
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #210
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Sunday, 19 March 1995 Volume 01 : Number 210
Very Disturbing News
Re: Very Disturbing News
Re: Very Disturbing News
Re: Very Disturbing News
Re: Very Disturbing News
Re: Very Disturbing News
Re: Very Disturbing News
I am testing our mailserver at EFN.. please delete me!
Re: Very Disturbing News
Re: Very Disturbing News
Re: DOOM as a sport?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim Elson <jlelson@utdallas.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 07:13:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Very Disturbing News
Hello fellow doomers. I just heard a very serious and disturbing report
that if true could mean the end of deathmatch except via networks. Allow
me to explain.
I was just talking with the moderators of Dallas Dwango. Recently while
talking with one of the Houston Dwango moderators, the Houston guy told
them about having a deathmatch "invulnerability" demonstrated to him.
According to his report, a handful of Houston Doomers have found a way
to hack the EXE so that every step or so they take registers as picking
up a megashere. (Something about altering the "step" pointer to also
point to the "megashpere" pointer.) One of them, who happens to be one
of Dallas'best players on Dwango, checked this out by playing one of
the suspected hackers. (It's been reported that the only way to kill
him is to hit him with 2 rockets right in a row.) He found that he could
not kill them even after hitting him four times in a row with a double-
barrel at close range.
This report greatly saddens me. What I am wondering is whether this
is possible, I suspect that it is. Also, is there any counter-measure
that can be taken against such unconsciencable cheaters?
After a lot of internal debate I've decided to make this report to this
mailing list instead of echoing it around the world on the newsgroups.
I'm very interested in what the Doom gurus on this list think about this
report. A bummed out Doomer. :(
============================================================================
James L Elson: |<o When you stare into the abyss too long o>|
School of Arts & Humanities |<o the abyss stares back into you. o>|
University of Texas-Dallas | --Nietzsche-- |
------------------------------
From: chris dale <chris@subzero.winternet.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 10:23:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
On Sat, 18 Mar 1995, Jim Elson wrote:
>
> Hello fellow doomers. I just heard a very serious and disturbing report
> that if true could mean the end of deathmatch except via networks. Allow
> me to explain.
...
> to hack the EXE so that every step or so they take registers as picking
> up a megashere. (Something about altering the "step" pointer to also
...
Take a deep breath and relax! You would have to be awfully clueless
to be strung along by someone using a cheat of such extremity. Unless
you deathmatch with -altdeath, which is for novices anyway.
If you suspect that your opponent used a health or armor cheat, then
play back the demo. If your EXE is clean, and your opponent was
cheating, then the demo would desynch; the players would be running
and shooting into the walls.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 11:30:28 EST
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
Jim Elson <jlelson@utdallas.edu> ,in message <Pine.SUN.3.91.950318070136.5694C-
100000@infoserv.utdallas.edu>, wrote:
> them about having a deathmatch "invulnerability" demonstrated to him.
> According to his report, a handful of Houston Doomers have found a way
> to hack the EXE so that every step or so they take registers as picking
This is not surprising. Without special measures any client-
cooperative distributed simulation is vulnerable to this sort of
hacking.
From my Netrek hacking background I know of several ways to protect
the code from this sort of hacking, but it would require protocol
extensions and a bit of work. Given the amount of effort people spend
on hacking the .EXE, I am fairly certain someone would find a way
around the protections unless the protocol underwent a redesign.
I can pretty much guarantee you that id will not spend this much
effort to secure DOOM from this kind of cheating.
Quake, being client-server, will have an additional measure of
protection since the server arbitrates the game rules. A
vulnerability it has is to bot clients and borg clients, and I know
ways to make things difficult for bot/borg hackers.
id software is welcome to hire me as a consultant (if Dave Taylor
doesn't already know the Netrek mechanisms).
------------------------------
From: Bill Bessette <dsquid@li.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 12:38:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
On Sat, 18 Mar 1995, Jim Elson wrote:
{SNIPPED REPORT ON HACKED EXE}
> This report greatly saddens me. What I am wondering is whether this
> is possible, I suspect that it is. Also, is there any counter-measure
> that can be taken against such unconsciencable cheaters?
If this report is true, I see no real reason for concern. Here's why:
A) Running around a whole game invulnerable isn't fun for experienced
Doomers. It'd be a kick to really piggy someone who's been beating
up on you for a long time, but after that, I'd tell him, and we'd
both have a good laugh.
B) I'd notice within 5 minutes or less whether or not someone was
using such a lame-o hack against me, and I'd simply refuse to play
them.
Don't get too worried about it.
The map cheat hack was much more insidious.
Bill
+====================+========================================+
| William Bessette |"The most merciful thing in the world, |
| Systems Analyst | I think, is the inability of the human |
| New York, NY | mind to correlate all its contents." |
+====================+========================================+
| dsquid@li.net | http://www.li.net/~dsquid |
+====================+========================================+
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 11:40:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
>
>Hello fellow doomers. I just heard a very serious and disturbing report
>that if true could mean the end of deathmatch except via networks. Allow
>me to explain.
>
>I was just talking with the moderators of Dallas Dwango. Recently while
>talking with one of the Houston Dwango moderators, the Houston guy told
>them about having a deathmatch "invulnerability" demonstrated to him.
>According to his report, a handful of Houston Doomers have found a way
>to hack the EXE so that every step or so they take registers as picking
>up a megashere. (Something about altering the "step" pointer to also
>point to the "megashpere" pointer.) One of them, who happens to be one
>of Dallas'best players on Dwango, checked this out by playing one of
>the suspected hackers. (It's been reported that the only way to kill
>him is to hit him with 2 rockets right in a row.) He found that he could
>not kill them even after hitting him four times in a row with a double-
>barrel at close range.
>
>This report greatly saddens me. What I am wondering is whether this
>is possible, I suspect that it is. Also, is there any counter-measure
>that can be taken against such unconsciencable cheaters?
>
>After a lot of internal debate I've decided to make this report to this
>mailing list instead of echoing it around the world on the newsgroups.
>I'm very interested in what the Doom gurus on this list think about this
>report. A bummed out Doomer. :(
This is bad. Of course, both players must have this patch, right?
Still, encourage the people who ceated it NOT to distribute it. It just
isnt right, IMHO.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 12:42:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
>Hello fellow doomers. I just heard a very serious and disturbing report
>that if true could mean the end of deathmatch except via networks. Allow
>me to explain.
>I was just talking with the moderators of Dallas Dwango. Recently while
>talking with one of the Houston Dwango moderators, the Houston guy told
>them about having a deathmatch "invulnerability" demonstrated to him.
>According to his report, a handful of Houston Doomers have found a way
>to hack the EXE so that every step or so they take registers as picking
>up a megashere. (Something about altering the "step" pointer to also
>point to the "megashpere" pointer.) One of them, who happens to be one
>of Dallas'best players on Dwango, checked this out by playing one of
>the suspected hackers. (It's been reported that the only way to kill
>him is to hit him with 2 rockets right in a row.) He found that he could
>not kill them even after hitting him four times in a row with a double-
>barrel at close range.
>This report greatly saddens me. What I am wondering is whether this
>is possible, I suspect that it is. Also, is there any counter-measure
>that can be taken against such unconsciencable cheaters?
>After a lot of internal debate I've decided to make this report to this
>mailing list instead of echoing it around the world on the newsgroups.
>I'm very interested in what the Doom gurus on this list think about this
>report. A bummed out Doomer. :(
Well, This little peice of news is unfortunatlly true. I call the houston
dwango often and have run in to the individual that actally does this. The
only problem with this little piece of hacking is that it DOES cause
consistancy failures - Sometimes. The explination that this unnamed
individual gave to me on how this actually works is as such: Basically Every
step he takes, Doom Gives him a Megasphere and a Backpack, so he is always
invincible and full of ammo. Then he told me that the hacking actually
changed the file size of the doom exe, and since dwango goes by the Exact
filesize of the exe to determine what version of doom you are using. He then
went into norton and changed the Filesize on the disk to match that of the
normal Doom II Version 1.9.
Now, This is very disheartning for other doom players to have an
invincible opponent plaing in the net game. There was originally a net cheat
in doom and Doom II version 1.666 - 1.8 (A allmap cheat, could see all the
other players on the map) But ID took that out in version 1.9. Another
unfortunate is that there is no way to defeat this kind of cheating (the
megasphere cheat that is) Only every once in a great while does the game
give back a Consistancy Failure when someone is cheating in this fashion.
I fully agree with your upset at this. No longer do I call DWANGO because
this individual is giving this information to almost every local dwango user.
I call long distance to dwango and I don't really feel like wasting my money
to try and kill a group of invincible losers.
If any of you ID type employees are reading this stuff, Please do something
to get rid of this form of cheating - It will most likely end up destroying
such great services as dwango if every user on there has some totally off the
wall way to cheat. Thanks.
Tom
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 13:31:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
[ explanation of potential cheating removed ]
> This report greatly saddens me. What I am wondering is whether this
> is possible, I suspect that it is. Also, is there any counter-measure
> that can be taken against such unconsciencable cheaters?
First of all, such cheating cannot be done, as far as I can tell. I
could be wrong here, but I don't think so. Each separate EXE file keeps
its own separate copy of what is going on in the game. In other words,
it acts as if the Indigo player was simply a "drone", and feeds it the
keystrokes from the other game (put very simply, the modem acts as a
second keyboard for Doom). It also does a few checks every once in
awhile to make sure the health of the players are equal (and I think the
location of monsters too). When these checks fail, you get a
"Consistency failure." Now there is NO way to hack one person's exe and
get the results to show up on another person's. I've had much personal
experience with DeHackEd, and I know it can't be done that way, and from
what i've hypothesized about the rest of Doom it can't be done any other
way either.
In other words, don't sweat it. It's probably just a rumor. Id
programmed Doom VERY well with regards to cheating. Descent had a cheat
exe hack out within a month of its release; Doom is still cheat-proof
after over 14 months of existence.
Although I know some keyboarders who regard the mouse as cheating. :-)
Greg
------------------------------
From: "Richard A. Soderberg" <richards@haus.efn.org>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 10:46:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I am testing our mailserver at EFN.. please delete me!
------------------------------
From: David Damerell <djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 19:39:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
[report of cheating be EXE hacking deleted]
Can't be done. Your informant was either feeding you a line of bull or
was misled himself. Reason is, your .EXE would have to be intact (as you
haven't done anything to it), soyour machine would record the true health
of the other player, and when he died, even if his machine still thought
he had 200/200, all you'd get would be a consistency error.
I'm not saying you can't cheat in DM, but it cannot be done by .EXE
hacking if the non-cheating player uses an .EXE he knows is OK.
David 'Gotterdammerung' Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk.
Trinity College, Cambridge University. CUWoCS President. All Hail Discordia!
|___| Loneliness pours over you: Emptiness can pull you through. |___|
| | | Your mother's eyes, from your eyes, cry to me... Queen, '39. | | |
------------------------------
From: "C. Sheldon" <sheldonc@acy.digex.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 16:30:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Very Disturbing News
On Sat, 18 Mar 1995, Jim Elson wrote:
>
> I was just talking with the moderators of Dallas Dwango. Recently while
> talking with one of the Houston Dwango moderators, the Houston guy told
> them about having a deathmatch "invulnerability" demonstrated to him.
I always suspected those bad-ass Texans of some trickery! =)
> This report greatly saddens me. What I am wondering is whether this
> is possible, I suspect that it is. Also, is there any counter-measure
> that can be taken against such unconsciencable cheaters?
The Obvious solution would seem to be to refuse to play unless your
opponent agrees to record the match...it would then be impossible for
him to cheat without anyone finding out. Also It would seem to me that it
would be very difficult to implement such a "cheating" method at one of
the many tournaments held around the country, for obvious reasons.
Later Days
Cliff Sheldon
DrWu on #Doom
------------------------------
From: Dirk Harms-Merbitz <dirk@power.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 16:37:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: DOOM as a sport?
Good point. I agree about the different feel of E1. Who did it? Have they
done any other levels?
Dirk
On Fri, 17 Mar 1995, Charlie Acord wrote:
> > I think that is another reason why Doom has
> > lasted this long, hands up how many of you would
> > still be paying those old original levels! not me.
> >
> > Dario
>
> Sorry, mate, gotta disagree with you a bit there. Every once in a while, I
> go back to original DOOM and play the first (shareware) episode for a while.
> There's just *something* about E1....the other two episodes are not even
> remotely in the same class....either id was rushing to get the registered
> version out, or they had someone else do E2 and E3. To me E1 *is* DOOM, and
> altho I like DOOM II a lot, it's not the same. Kinda like ST:TOS vs.
> ST:TNG, I guess....hmmm, exactly like that, as a matter of fact. 'Nuff said!
>
>
> Charlie
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Charlie Acord, "the Green Marine" | "Wow, I just found the BFG-9000!!!!"
> Telecom Div/FedEx/Memphis/TN | "No kidding?"
> (home of BBQ, the blues, and Elvis) | "Yeah"......<click> <whoooooosh>
> Internet: cmacord@fedex.com |
> CompuServe: 75143,621 | #include <std_disclaimer.h>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #210
**********************************
