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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 179
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #179
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 23 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 179
Le grand WAD du jour...
Re: id-ea
Re: THE WAD SHOULD BE FOR DOOM2
Re: "The Wad" Name Suggestion
INDIANA JONES
Weapons for "The WAD"
Re: id-ea
Re: The Wad.
Re: The WAD
Re: One for each?
"The WAD" Counter
Re: The Wad.
Re: The WAD
Re: The WAD: game engine
Re: One for each?
Re: The WAD
Re: id - ea
"The WAD": Theme
Re: The WAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Anthony Spataro <ads@netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:30:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Le grand WAD du jour...
In regards to the game engine, we have conversion utilities for just
about everything out there. Why not release it for one platform (Doom ][
is still my vote--they say the engine is the same, but I swear there are
subtle improvements) and, if the demand is great, just make another
.WAD? A few things will be different, but after all the initial work in
the first place, it won't seem like much at all.
As for shareware issues, I think that if we made a truly awesome .WAD,
one where people would load it and say, "Wow, this is *Doom*?!?" then id
might make an exception to the no-shareware-levels rule. After all, as
someone pointed out, a truly masterful WAD can only increase their profits.
I know that group projects with no pay, no organization and no boss to
threaten your livelihood tend to sputter out, especially so when there
are a great number of people involved, all of whom have lives and
interests outside of the project. But we also have the advantage of
devlopment tools par excellence and nigh-instant communication...so let's
do it!
/ads@netcom.com
[LC/Cardy/Kilwren/Cardenyl
\PASO/Paradigm/Storm
---------------------------->
Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying
of nothing.
-- Redd Foxx
------------------------------
From: RKIRCHER@delphi.com
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 20:45:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: id-ea
There has been some discussion as to whether or not THE WAD project should
use Doom, Doom ][, or Heretic. Here is my two cents worth:
Doom: Out of the question. Anything Doom can do, Doom ][ can also do.
------------------------------
From: John Doggett <dogman@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:00:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: THE WAD SHOULD BE FOR DOOM2
On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, David Damerell wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 1995 tedv@geom.umn.edu wrote:
> > ...
> > ones of those to. Then the only restriction is the choice of floor/ceiling
> > textures.
>
> ... and of course those can be replaced, as Aliens-TC demonstrates. Very
> well. DooM I is functionally identical to DooM ][ - so we can do versions
> for _both_ with relatively little extra work. Is this the route to take?
Absolutely. I don't find the advancements in heretic essential in the
least. They might be neat (different), but they certainly don't
revolutionize the game. Other than that, saying that we should do it for
Doom I is almost exactly the same thing as saying we should do it for Doom
II. The difference is negligable, so, accordingly, we should neglect it (use
the engine as if it were Doom II) it until we're finished.
On the other hand, maybe the Heretic wouldn't be a bad choice after all,
if it were overhauled to reflect the Doom scenario... (jetpacks?) But
perhaps that should wait.
-=John Doggett=- | All I ever wanted was a
dogman@u.washington.edu | cranial link to the internet.
http://umm.../working/on.it | Is that too much to ask?
------------------------------
From: Enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:36:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: "The Wad" Name Suggestion
> > "Trials and Tribulations"
>
> Yeah... "TNT"!
Bonus! I think you've hit the nail on the head with that one!
------------------------------
From: jefross@ix.netcom.com (Jeff Ross)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:44:57 -0800
Subject: INDIANA JONES
This is the best theme I can think of.
Enemies:
Rolling Ball(Like at the begining of Raiders)
Amazon Natives
Muslims
Monkeys(Yes! Little annoying fuckers!)
Snakes(Cobras, too)
Nazi's(More than one kind)
Tall, strong Bald Guys
Spirits
Etc....
Weapons:
Whip(Oh yeah)
Fist
Gun
Sword
Various Mystical Artifacts that kill and mame the ignorant.
Levels:
Amazon River and caves
University
Desert ruins
Boats
Nazi submarine headquarters
& many more...
Music would be thought out for us
(No copyright infringements. We're giving this game away, and we give
credit to LucasFilm and Id)
------------------------------
From: chall@tcpet.uscg.mil
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 18:56:24 -0800
Subject: Weapons for "The WAD"
I was thinking for new weapons for "The WAD" and came up with the following
suggestions.....
1) Flamethrower
2) Laser Rifle (something like a Battletech Pulse Laser)
3) Fireman's Axe
4) Sniper Rifle (with laser scope)
5) Automatic Combat Shotgun (this would be brutal)
6) PPC (particle projector cannon)
7) Sword, Spear
8) Mine Layer
9) Two Handguns Instead Of Just One.
Also for bad guys....
1) Robotic turret... like in Blake Stone
2) Robotic sentry
3) Other horrible mutations like in Doom and Doom2
4) Look at a bunch of horror movies and see what kind of monsters will work.
When making this Wad, stay away from all the Satanic crap. The whole idea
of Hell invading Earth is a joke. I perfer an alien invasion theme or a
corporation coverup of a bad accident with toxic waste.
Would it be possible to put a military jeep, Hummer, or some kind of vehicle
in "The WAD?" Mabye, using dehacked and replacing the chainsaw we could put
one in?
BTW: If we did this for Heretic, we would have localized sounds (like acid
dripping down drains.) We would have the ability to look up and down, and
keep an inventory. A jetpack or anti-grav unit would allow us to fly. I
perfer Heretic, as the game is superior.. but Doom][ is also excellent with
all its enemies.
Just a few ideas ; )
- -Pat Hall
- -Chall@tcpet.uscg.mil
- -Davion2@aol.com
------------------------------
From: John Minadeo <jminadeo@cybercon.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:13:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: id-ea
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, M&Ms wrote:
> "Too many cooks in the kitchen" :)
>
> It appears there is a lot of talk on whether DOOM, DOOM2, or Heretic
> should be used. If there can't be some type of agreement up front
> on at least which engine, how is this thing going to be cohesive or
> ever get going?
>
> Guess I'll throw my $2000.02 (a gov't $.02) into this fray.
>
> >>Engine
> Doom2. I know MORE people have DOOM but DOOM2 is available thru
> retail and people are still getting it (of course). These people
> are also starting to get Inet accounts. I don't know a lot of
> people clammering for DOOM1 anymore.
>
> >>People
> Yes, I think you will need all kinds BUT be careful putting too
> many in one area. Could be a mess. (Except for playtesters). If
> you set up a Web page so people can get graphics seen (and people
> can say "yeah, that's cool") or an FTP site where people can
> download pics, layouts, etc. you can get the most input. I think
> you need to go with majority (unless it is very close).
>
> >>Things done first
> 1) I think an engine needs to be picked. 2) get the theme nailed
> down. 3) Figure out where people will be. 4) Try to set some
> time limits so this don't come out in 1999. 5) Get that Web page
> or FTP site.
>
> >>Themes
> Well, I had a few I'll toss out. There have been a few well done
> themes that people always ask for. Aliens and StarWars...
> People identify with movies. I was tossing around a couple ideas.
>
> a) In the movie vein...you get whisked back in time to early 1900's
> ...in Hollywood, but THESE ain't no actors... 1st set of levels
> could be around gangster theme (tommy guns, billy club) (IN BLACK N
> WHITE!, dark streets, lots of shadows, buildings, warehouses, dockside)
> (gangsters of course)... moving to 2nd set of levels which deal with
> the ol' monsters theme (wooden stake, silver bullets) (castles,
> swamps, dark) (mummy, vampire, franky, wolfman, creature from
> black lagoon)...moving to 3rd set of levels which deal with the
> other set of monsters (varied weapons) (small buildings (under your
> feet :), seas, islands), (godzilla-type, gamaron-type)...NAME:
> HOLLYWOOD DOOM
>
> b) In the "evil" vein that the doom creators were trying to
> establish... Does anyone ever remember the comic book Son of Satan?
> How about Satan being really ticked off at you (the Son of Satan).
> You have an assortment of weapons (similar to hellstaff from Heretic,
> a tail (?what...remember Shadowcaster?)) (working your way up from
> the depths of Hell, many shadows) (demons of many types and shapes).
> This theme would use elements from all 3 games...the level-type
> design from DOOM1, the engine and some other things from DOOM2, and
> the weapon design from Heretic. NAME: ESCAPE WISCONSIN (sorry, I
> couldn't resist ;)).
>
> Just some quick cheapie thoughts....for scorn and ridicule.
>
>
> _ o o | Michael(M&M's)(millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu)(TEAM OS2) | _ _ o o
> \/o\ o o | Working? at UW-Whitewater; Ren- SysSnot HHJJ BBS | \/o\o\ o
> /\_/ | (414-699-5560; 9am-2am CST; VBBS/2) | /\_/_/
>
my $0.02... Someone needs to be the head of this ThInG so decisions can
be made and production can start... I like the movie idea but how about
something in an H.P. Lovecraft vein... Like An ancient evil is ravishing
New York in the 1920... COuld use gangsters with tommy guns, crooked cops
and still have an entire mythos of gods and demons to draw from...
Anyway, discuss on... Incidentally, I also have access to a scanner...
-jminadeo@cybercon.com
PS... In case you haven't guessed, count me in for something!
------------------------------
From: John Minadeo <jminadeo@cybercon.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:31:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: The Wad.
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, Scott Benner wrote:
> I was thinking for a bit (fourth time today since my morning exam; gotta' cut
> down) but how about doing a mech type thing along the lines of Battletech? It
> could make animations easier (just plot them down and render them from various
> angles) and if I recall, that's something that the Video Toaster claims to do
> quite well... This would also fit wings into it as rocket packs...
Oh-oh, I know I like the BattleTech idea!!!! I KNOW I LIKE THE BATTLETECH
IDEA!!!!!
> Another concern I have: Where is the project going to be stored? By this, I
> mean where is it going to live durning alpha, beta, and play-testing?
> ftp.cdrom.com? No, the incoming directory would be cluttered in no time,
> especially because of their speedy "evaluation" cycle...
> Someone's home computer w/ ethernet? No. People will be suspicous of
> copyright violations...
>
I may be able to get a spot to put it on the server I do through (the
joys of knowing the systems admin... But of course I'll have to ask... If
this would be convenient let me know and I'll see if I can make it so.
Oh, Please don't ask me to until there is a project leader so we don't
end up having it all over the place.
- -jminadeo@cybercon.com
------------------------------
From: John Minadeo <jminadeo@cybercon.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:37:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: The WAD
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, ulasieben wrote:
> > [nothing was here...just needed a subject]
> I had an idea...how about getting everyone involved
> in the Project to send in a picture of themselves and
> what they are doing. Then someone could scan these in and
> out them in textures. Then, we could have a level (probably
> the last one) where the player goes into a museum to see all
> the creators. The museum room would be very dark, and no
> monsters could go in there. However, where the pictures are
> on the wall, it would be brightened by torches. I would like
> to do this level, and maybe others, when we are ready to do
> levels (of course, if most people like the idea :) But,
> I can't scan the pictures in. So, whadda you think? A kind
> credits level, with each person's name and picture.
> -- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
>
I like the idea... When the project gets rolling I'd be willing to scan
them in and send em all to who ever is creating the museum... Nothing
wrong with a little lack of modesty! Anyway, if so, you'll have to mail
(as in post office and mail carriers with guns... HEY, I smell a funny
little WAD idea here... Dodging postal carriers with chainguns... :)
Anyway, lemme know!
- -jminadeo @cybercon.com
------------------------------
From: at455@freenet.carleton.ca (Colin Pascal)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:39:07 -0500
Subject: Re: One for each?
>
>Howdy,
>
>Instead of selecting a single platform (Doom, DoomII, Heretic) for the
>project, how about a separate project for each platform?
I think we should make the WAD DOOM ][, but we should make one a theme
wad, and one WAD with the 30 best Deathmatch levels.
- --
Nothing can stop me now
because I don't care anymore.
------------------------------
From: Michael Biggs <mbiggs@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 15:20:00 +1100 (EST)
Subject: "The WAD" Counter
Hello, People
I aren't axactly a regular poster to thiss group
but I'm begining to get shited off with all these I want the doom
engine, and I want the heretic engine posts, so I've decided to be
democratic about it and set up a counter. if you want the doom engine
then send mail to Biggle@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au with the subject as
I WANT DOOM
if you want the heretic engine then send to the same address with the
subject as
I WANT HERETIC
I'll send the stats of the count every coupla hours or so depending on
how many replies I get.
hopefully this can sort out some of this mess and get this project up
and running instead of us all standing around bickering.
- --
/~~~\|~|/~~~\/~~~\|~| |~~~|/~~\ "Order must underlie everything
| '/| | /~~~ /~~~| | | |_ \ \~ however disorderly it may appear"
| ,\| | \/~| \/~|| |_| |_ _\ \ Isaac Asimov
|___/|_|\_/||\_/|||____|__|\__/ mbiggs@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
From: John Doggett <dogman@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 20:26:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: The Wad.
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, John Minadeo wrote:
[...]
> I may be able to get a spot to put it on the server I do through (the
> joys of knowing the systems admin... But of course I'll have to ask... If
> this would be convenient let me know and I'll see if I can make it so.
> Oh, Please don't ask me to until there is a project leader so we don't
> end up having it all over the place.
Hey, let's hold a DOOM-DUEL for the leadership! Runners-up will be
executed!! (by means of Rocket Launcher)
(heheheh)
-=John Doggett=- | All I ever wanted was a
dogman@u.washington.edu | cranial link to the internet.
http://umm.../working/on.it | Is that too much to ask?
------------------------------
From: Mark York <MYORK@FS8HOST>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:57:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: The WAD
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:17:46 -0800 (PST)
> From: Anthony Spataro <ads@netcom.com>
> Subject: Re: The WAD
> To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Reply-to: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, ulasieben wrote:
>
> > I had an idea...how about getting everyone involved
> > in the Project to send in a picture of themselves and
> > what they are doing. Then someone could scan these in and
> > out them in textures. Then, we could have a level (probably
> > the last one) where the player goes into a museum to see all
> > the creators. The museum room would be very dark, and no
> > monsters could go in there. However, where the pictures are
> > on the wall, it would be brightened by torches. I would like
> > to do this level, and maybe others, when we are ready to do
> > levels (of course, if most people like the idea :) But,
> > I can't scan the pictures in. So, whadda you think? A kind
> > credits level, with each person's name and picture.
>
> I have a 16-bit color hand scanner, and will be happy to do any scanning
> the group needs, although if someone else has a better scanner, we should
> use that. The only question is, how to get pictures, etc to the
> scannor? (scannor vs. scanee)
>
> /ads@netcom.com
> [LC/Cardy/Kilwren/Cardenyl
> \PASO/Paradigm/Storm
> ---------------------------->
> Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying
> of nothing.
> -- Redd Foxx
>
>
I have a 32-bit flatbed that can be used. ;-)
Mark
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@remus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 23:54:56 EST
Subject: Re: The WAD: game engine
> OK. My thoughts on the engine/theme ideas for the new project. I can
> see we're going to have some major problems getting this thing off the
> ground. :-( We need to decide on a game engine first (Doom/Doom 2/Heretic),
> and on a theme. BUT, there's one important thing we should decide before
> picking an engine: will this be
> 1. FULL (100%) everything replacement
> 2. MOSTLY (60%) everything, but leave some stuff that fits well in,
> such as sargeants and some wall textures
> 3. PARTIAL (30%) replacement, change some things that we need to in order
> to get new monsters or walls, but leave a lot of it
> 4. VERY LITTLE (10%), change only what absolutely must be changed.
>
> Now note that if we do a FULL replacement, the game engine becomes
> almost immaterial except in regards to how many people have a given
> engine, and also "special effects" such as flying or looking up/down.
> Any of the other types, though, and the game engine we pick becomes
> essential to some degree.
>
> My personal opinions on this:
>
> Stick with a PARTIAL or VERY LITTLE replacement. It will drastically
> decrease our production time (I think), and make it a lot easier for the
> casual user to download.
> Also keep close to the original Doom theme... other things may be
> pretty cool, but not for this project. The original Doom was very good
> in regards to atmosphere, enemies, etc, and tampering with it may make it
> less fun. Doing a movie makeover may be great for a TC (total
> conversion), but probably won't go too well with our particular project.
> I'm viewing the project as more of a sampling of awesome levels from this
> doom-editing list rather than a sampling of artwork for new sprites/walls.
> What's everyone else think?
>
> And to respond to a few other messages I saw:
>
> DeHackEd for Heretic is out. It's called HHE10.ZIP on your favorite
> Doom FTP site.
>
> Someone suggested making one episode shareware and two episodes
> registered for Doom. This won't work, since Id said that NO levels
> should work for shareware Doom. Period. Make 'em register. :)
>
> Greg
>
>
I think new textures, sounds, sprites is a cool idea...basically, a whole new
game - a Doom/Heretic crossbreed; w/ input from all the experienced gamers
and level designers on this list, we could make something better than Doom,
Doom 2, or Heretic..(with a few strategic changes with DeHacked of course..)
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 23:23:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: One for each?
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Instead of selecting a single platform (Doom, DoomII, Heretic) for the
>> project, how about a separate project for each platform?
>>
>> Now if we could just get id to stop releasing patches... :)
>>
>> Brian
>> --
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
>> thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>not a bad suggestion....
>
Or, better, convert the project. There are plenty people, some could
do conversions. Maybe the base platform should be Doom 2, since that is
pretty popular, but convert to Heretic. Thsi is probably the best solution.
Any better ones though?
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: Anthony Spataro <ads@netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:10:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: The WAD
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, Mark York wrote:
> I have a 32-bit flatbed that can be used. ;-)
> Mark
>
Congratulations--you're our official scannor! =)
As far as themes go, we need to compiler a resource list: how many people
we have, and who can do what. That way, we can figure out how many
copies of 3DS we have, for instance, how many composers, how many sound
FX dudes, artists, scanners, digicameras, etc we have, and coordinate
more efficiently.
/ads@netcom.com
[LC/Cardy/Kilwren/Cardenyl
\PASO/Paradigm/Storm
---------------------------->
Naeser's Law:
You can make it foolproof, but you can't make it
damnfoolproof.
------------------------------
From: Timbre@ix.netcom.com (Timbre Bjornson)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:13:11 -0800
Subject: Re: id - ea
Well I can offer some things to this wad project. I am somewhat
new at editing doom levels, but have access to sone good
quality scanning and digitizing equipment. I can also function
as a play tester. Just let me know what is neeed.
Timbre
timbre@ix.netcom.com
bjor0204@mailserv.edmonds.ctc.edu
------------------------------
From: hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca (Enigma)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:29:26 -0800
Subject: "The WAD": Theme
From the babbling net:
> Also keep close to the original Doom theme... other things may be
> pretty cool, but not for this project. The original Doom was very good
> in regards to atmosphere, enemies, etc, and tampering with it may make it
> less fun.
When I first suggested the notion that id write a new episode of Doom
(remember id-ea?), I had in mind a partial replacement. I'd like to see the
good old monsters we're used to slaughtering kept, with a few replacements
of the ones we don't want to see again. For example: keep the sargeant and
the former human, but change the skeleton-guy and the spider-demon. The
specialties can go, but the classics must stay.
I'm not sure about the legalities of keeping id's textures -- I suppose it
depends on whether or not we have their cooperation:) But we must make a
conceted effort to retain the look and feel of the original Doom (at all
costs). I believe it should be our highest priority to play episodes 1-3,
and maps 1-32 on a regular basis -- examining every detail, outlining what
makes us feel good when we play a given level. Copy that, and we've got
something.
A complete re-make would remove the DOOM theme altogether. If we want to
make a new episode, it must be: 1) an extension of DOOM, and 2) retain the
look and feel of Doom. I do not believe that a movie re-write could be
classified as an extension of Doom -- and Indiana Jones (a great idea even
so) definitely doesn't fit this specification.
I'm not here to start fires or raise any nasties to make anyone feel bad.
I'm just trying to express what I believe would be the best, most
successful, and most enjoyable project possible.
P.S. Yes, I know: everyone plays levels 1-32 and episodes 1-3 on a regular
basis. Now, it's your job!
***************************************************************************
enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca>
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Casey Robinson <ogiswise@rahul.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 23:04:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: The WAD
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, ulasieben wrote:
> > [nothing was here...just needed a subject]
> I had an idea...how about getting everyone involved
> in the Project to send in a picture of themselves and
> what they are doing. Then someone could scan these in and
> out them in textures. Then, we could have a level (probably
> the last one) where the player goes into a museum to see all
> the creators. The museum room would be very dark, and no
> monsters could go in there. However, where the pictures are
> on the wall, it would be brightened by torches.
I like this idea, but think we should decide on more important things
(i.e. what engine to use) first.
"The path to enlightenment is
long and difficult, which is why
I asked you to bring sandwiches
and a change of clothing."
-Kliban
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #179
**********************************
