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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 177
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #177
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 23 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 177
One for each?
Re: id-ea
New WAD
Re: id-ea
Re: Sprites for THE WAD
The Wad.
Re: THE WAD DOOM2 only - NOT
Re: id-ea: what to call it
Re: id-ea
Re: The WAD!
Re: One for each?
Re: Sprites for THE WAD
Re: The WAD
Re: The WAD
Re: Little editor problem...
Re: id-ea
Re: Sprites for THE WAD
Re: id-ea
Re: The Wad - Here we go!
Re: New WAD
Re: The Wad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:41:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: One for each?
Howdy,
Instead of selecting a single platform (Doom, DoomII, Heretic) for the
project, how about a separate project for each platform?
Now if we could just get id to stop releasing patches... :)
Brian
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "jeffery galinovsky - EUCD" <jgalinov@pcocd2.intel.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:53:22 -0800
Subject: Re: id-ea
Here are some of my suggestions:
"DOOM III: The Internet Project"
"Mutant Forces"
"The Sludge Pits of Hell"
and on that comic theme...
"The Dilbert Chronicles" (With plasma throwing Dogberts...this could be a fun
idea)
Jeff
- --
+---------------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Jeffery R. Galinovsky | These are my views and not |
| | those of my employer! |
| jgalinov@pcocd2.intel.com | |
| Jeffery_R_Galinovsky@ccm.fm.intel.com | 8^) |
+---------------------------------------+----------------------------+
------------------------------
From: Carsten Whimster <bcrwhims@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:07:34 -0500
Subject: New WAD
Hi all,
I vote for Doom 2, mainly because that is the only one I ever bought
:) ...and I know a few people in the same boat.
Also, I volunteer for play-testing, specializing in single-player
mode, since my DM pal just sold his computer.
I think it would be easiest to set up an ftp site, mail everyone the
password, and add this site to a web page as well.
Carsten Whimster Thinking that we're
EDM/2 Associate Editor/Book reviewer getting older and wiser...
Team OS/2 --- POV-Panel/2 author when we're just getting old
bcrwhims@uwaterloo.ca David Gilmour
------------------------------
From: Matthew Miller <rmiller@infinet.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 14:20:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: id-ea
I wrote:
> > Tell ya what. I've got a pretty large collection of sound effects and
> > musics--would you like me to send you some? (Let's decide on the format
> > I can send them in as soon as we decide on the theme...I throw my `vote'
> > in for the mutated-humans theme, myself.)
And Chainsaw Jim replied:
> Of course it's just my opinion, but I've never cared for sound replacements.
> And I turn even the original music off. This is why I really appreciate
> it when a large wad project distributes sounds in a separate wad.
Alright, sounds in a separate WAD. Now if only we could decide on a theme
so's I knows what sounds to include in said separate WAD... :)
Oh, and IMHO, you're missing quite a lot of atmosphere by playing
with the music turned off. Try playing with SFX up to the max and music
about four or five notches up from the min...so it's there, but not too
intrusive...
Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com
------------------------------
From: johnsond@std.teradyne.com (Dean Johnson)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 11:49:08 PST
Subject: Re: Sprites for THE WAD
> Why not have a home-grown cartoon theme? Someone on the "WAD" team who
> is also a good artist can draw up cartoon looking monsters and textures.
> This would save the expense of taking pictures of new sprites. Just an idea.
My brother has a start on this, he replaced the Lost Soul sprites with
a cartoon eyeball with wings. He never released it to the Net but it
was pretty cool.
In addition to being a decent artist he also has access to a variety of
scanners and computers. I can't speak for him but he very likely would
enjoy being a part of this project.
My two-cents regarding platform, rather than argue about what engine to
use divide the project into three unique projects. There certainly
seems to be enough people here.
Or possibly one giant project that works on all three platforms--the
sprites, wall textures and levels don't care. Dehacked stuff would be
unique but that's that's an isolated part of the work anyway.
Far name/theme what about Thing-Doom? You remember the movie with the
alien that could take on new forms. FOr example, you kill a seargent
and when you aren't looking his head sprouts insect legs and tries to
kill you. The environemnt in the movie was a research station in
Antartica, which should provide lots of opportunities for cool graphics
and levels
- -Dean
------------------------------
From: bennes@rpi.edu (Scott Benner)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:29:32 -0500
Subject: The Wad.
DISCUSSED WITHIN: Engine, graphics, monsters, location.
- - - - - - - - - -
Hmm. Due to the TREMENDOUS amount of mail I picked up overnight, I think I'll
respond by clipping bits from various "posters":
o I can send them in as soon as we decide on the theme...I throw my `vote'
o in for the mutated-humans theme, myself.)
[Matthew Miller -- rmiller@infinet.com]
I was thinking for a bit (fourth time today since my morning exam; gotta' cut
down) but how about doing a mech type thing along the lines of Battletech? It
could make animations easier (just plot them down and render them from various
angles) and if I recall, that's something that the Video Toaster claims to do
quite well... This would also fit wings into it as rocket packs...
Personally, if we're going to scrap all of the pictures anyway, what
difference does it make how this or that texture looks (As the argument in
Heretic vs Doom has been proceding) ? I prefer the backpack feature of
Heretic... the stored health saved my butt on many occations... Anyway, to
avoid law suites, everything HAS to go, so why not junk the palette for the
darker Doom? (or at least something with more yellow shades - a problem I had
with inserting pictures)
A second preference for Heretic is that, like Doom, it was built to be
Shareware friendly. Id split it into shareware and registered, so why can't
the Project do the same? An episode for Shareware owners and two for the
Registered - Easier setup than mucking with Doom II, IMHO... Besides, y the
time the Project begins rolling along, DeHacked Heretic should be out. (Right
now, everything is just planning anyway)
Another concern I have: Where is the project going to be stored? By this, I
mean where is it going to live durning alpha, beta, and play-testing?
ftp.cdrom.com? No, the incoming directory would be cluttered in no time,
especially because of their speedy "evaluation" cycle...
Someone's home computer w/ ethernet? No. People will be suspicous of
copyright violations...
And how is it going to be distributed meanwhile? A graphics patch + sound fx
+ music + levels patch sounds good to me until there is a finished product.
But what then? Doom.WAD is around 10 megs... 5 zipped. Can you imagine how
many people will be trying to get it when its done, only to realize that its
just too huge over a slow connection (modem)? I know; try getting the Dark
Forces Finale (5.8 meg) over a 19200 line. Two hour projected time...
But back to the Doom vs Heretic argument. From what I've seen through DM
play, there are many, many monster types. Practically every monster has its
invisible cousin. Besides, Heretic is just so blatently Doom 1. The first
four weapons almost directly match Doom's, and the Hellstaff sure looks like a
revamped plasma to me... But then you practically double the weapon effects
by using a tome. Plus, you just gotta have the egg... heh heh
o Engine.... Doom II, because it has a big monster list with many useful
o Dehackable abilities
[banjo]
But can't you just Dehack heretic too? When DeHacked for Heretic comes out of
course. It seems to have quite a large monster list too... I can think of...
1,2, a bunch. Besides, I happen to enjoy the look up/down effects; its
especially helpful in DM when looking down from a ledge...
o kill-em-all feel of the Doom weapons). Also, not nearly as much
o exploration has been done with Heretic, in manipulation of sky textures
o for example, or linedef info. Etc etc.
[Greg]
I know that there are documents on line/sector types at:
(sorry, but people will complain if I don't use URLs)
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/heretic/docs/editing/heretic.spc
/pub/heretic/docs/misc/unofspec.htc
Whoever made those seemed to know quite a bit about them...
As to sky textures, that's been discussed both here and at
rec.games.computer.doom.editing...
Besides, has anyone ever noticed the ice type in Doom? Or the multitude of
animated textures? Or that now walls can rotate both ways? Or that the
floors can scroll, and wind can blow objects around? No.
Ok, that seems to be my views on the subject, and you're free to ignore them
if you choose to do so. I don't mind. Just respond to the group.
[err, I guess this is long enough to be $.03]
- -- Scott Benner
bennes@rpi.edu
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 15:05:35 CST
Subject: Re: THE WAD DOOM2 only - NOT
> If people would vie to do really new textures, they'd have to do
> new pictures as well. If they do new pictures, they could as well
> do 64x64 pictures stored as flat lumps for floors & ceilings.
>
>
> "The WAD" could work for owners of DOOM1 and DOOM2 registered both,
> as a standalone DOOM2.WAD, depending on the amount of sprites, pictures
> and sounds provided. The *real* problem is to find a way it won't work
> for the shareware DOOM as well - iff Id still objects.
I liked the suggestion someone had of putting a BFG somewhere on the level
not in view. Loads sprites and crashes. Then all you have to do is not
include the BFG sprites. Or hrmm... I just remembered something
What about this. "The WAD" is really a large patch program. You run it and
some of the needed data from your IWAD and uses the data in a given PWAD to
create the new PWAD. The patch won't function if you don't have the
registered IWAD. And we won't be distributing anything registered; we'll just
be using it. Problem solved.
Of course... the patch program becomes a bigger problem. ;)
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: John Doggett <dogman@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:06:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: id-ea: what to call it
How about:
"The Spit"
-or-
"Big Tight"
-or-
"Pach'tina"
-=John Doggett=- | All I ever wanted was a
dogman@u.washington.edu | cranial link to the internet.
http://umm.../working/on.it | Is that too much to ask?
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@remus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 16:33:01 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
> > Ian Springer <ips@romulus.rutgers.edu> ,in message <CMM-RU.1.4.793423473.ips@ro
> > Hmm, I wonder. I would consider a weapon which gives an unfair advantage
> > bad for deathmatch. I got the impression that all the Heretic weapons except
> > the phoenix rod were fairly wimpy. That would be great for deathmatch. No
> > more "SMACK one, you're out".
> >
> Hmmmmm Hmmmmm. The rocket launcher is arguably the most fun deathmatch
> weapon in Doom. At least for me. The chainsaw comes in second.
>
> Of course, Quake WILL have hammers. hammerswillbecoolhehheh. Anybody
> ever use a meat tenderizer?
>
well, if the rocket launcher is your favorite Doom weapon, you should love
the Phoenix Rod in Heretic...:>
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@remus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 16:39:40 EST
Subject: Re: The WAD!
> If we're re-doing all of the textures and sprites, why don't we use
> Heretic's engine? It's practically the same engine, but with many
> improvements that can we can exploit to make the ultimate Patch!
>
> Id is already releasing the extra levels for Doom2, and there are
> already so many levels for Doom1 and 2.
>
> We need to forge new ground as wad editors, and Heretic can be that
> vehicle. I know not many people have it yet(I would have to buy it,
> too.) But what's an extra $40 bucks in relation to the time we're
> already going to commit to this package?
>
> Let's get on the IRC sometime to discuss this in semi-real time.
>
> And count me in as a level designer.
>
> Jeff Ross
> Author of Diehard, Diehardr & Bespin WADS.
> (Coming Soon, IndyJonz & Rooftops)
>
>
YES! finally someone who's not hung up on using the Doom engine!! now we're
talking...ok, anyone who can meet on IRC on say #thewad on Sunday at 8pm EST.
cyu all there..
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@remus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 16:41:01 EST
Subject: Re: One for each?
> Howdy,
>
> Instead of selecting a single platform (Doom, DoomII, Heretic) for the
> project, how about a separate project for each platform?
>
> Now if we could just get id to stop releasing patches... :)
>
> Brian
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
> thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
not a bad suggestion....
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 22 Feb 1995 21:46:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Sprites for THE WAD
> Why not have a home-grown cartoon theme? Someone on the "WAD" team who
> is also a good artist can draw up cartoon looking monsters and textures.
> This would save the expense of taking pictures of new sprites. Just an idea.
I think we should try to stick to the same feel that DOOM has by
itself: sinister and evil. The Barney patch (for example) is cool
to think about and even play a couple of times, but it just looks
dumb. Go to the supersecret level of DOOM ][. Those Commander
Keens look really out of place, and if all the monsters looked that
way, THE WAD would end up looking kind of silly, IMHO.
- -j
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
ASPARAGUS is available year-round but is at its best in the spring.
-Look for plump, crisp, straight, unshriveled stems and tightly furled tips.
-Refrigerate in a moist wrapper for no more than a couple of days.
-Asparagus is rich in vitamins A and C.
-The stalks have been a treasured food since ancient times.
<from the Cleveland Plain Dealer, April 6th, 1994>
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Jeremy Holland
jdh15@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
http://maniac.cwru.edu/~deth/
Cleveland, Ohio
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:53:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: The WAD
> [stuff deketed about priorities]
One thing...most, if not all, of the new textures need to be drawn
BEFORE we start level design. If not, much of the level work will have to
be tossed because it doesn't work with the new textures. Also, on the
subject of new sprites, I think maybe keep the theme of mutated humans.
This works well, because they won't look exactly like humans (ala ROTT).
They will be mutated in various forms. I like the cyber-demon, and BOH.
These could be kept, because they fit with our theme. But, let's do
some genuine monsters too, like the imps & demons. Just my $.02.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:11:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: The WAD
> [nothing was here...just needed a subject]
I had an idea...how about getting everyone involved
in the Project to send in a picture of themselves and
what they are doing. Then someone could scan these in and
out them in textures. Then, we could have a level (probably
the last one) where the player goes into a museum to see all
the creators. The museum room would be very dark, and no
monsters could go in there. However, where the pictures are
on the wall, it would be brightened by torches. I would like
to do this level, and maybe others, when we are ready to do
levels (of course, if most people like the idea :) But,
I can't scan the pictures in. So, whadda you think? A kind
credits level, with each person's name and picture.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: "Jason Hoffoss" <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 18:25:01 CST
Subject: Re: Little editor problem...
On Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:41 PST,
Ben Morris <bmorris@islandnet.com> wrote:
>> I don't think DCK likes to load DMapEdit saved maps either. I'm not quite
>> sure why. Lacking a little flexibility here, though. DMapEdit should be
>> able to load your map, though. Give it a try, and run the error checkers
>> on it. If your sectors aren't complete (open polygon?), it will detect it
>> and point out where the problem is by marking the vertexes that don't
>> complete the path.
>
>I've never had problems loading maps into DCK that were made with DMapEdit
>OR DoomEd. What kind of problem was (the original author) having?
Hmm, I think it wad DCK. Maybe it was another editor. God, all these
editrs can be confusing sometimes..
>> Maybe it's the "`" key instead of "'". Only a guess, though. I think "'"
>> would probably be better, actually.
>
>Well, not really. Left hand on the keyboard, right hand on the mouse.
>I've tried to cluster most of the action keys toward the left of the
>keyboard, so it's easy to get at them. The "close single quote" is on the
>right side, so it's not as easy to get to.
What about people who use the mouse with their left hand? :) (hehe)
>I don't see that it relates to "fine mode" in any way better than `,
>either :)
Ya, except it's one of these 'strange' keys. I remember getting feedback
on shift-3 not being '#' on one persons machine, so I had to change it to
'#' specifically in the menu key-equivalent field. If something as
common as that isn't there, no telling how many computers have ` where you
are expecting it to be. Anyway, I think I use it for screen-shot or
something anyway. :)
>- Ben
------------------------------
From: "Jason Hoffoss" <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 18:24:54 CST
Subject: Re: id-ea
On Tue, 21 Feb 1995 23:45:30 +0000 (GMT),
David Damerell <djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Ian Springer wrote:
>> if you can't afford Doom2, I guess that leaves you out in the cold..."the
>> WAD" must definitely be designed for Doom2 simply because of the improved
>> engine, the super-shotgun, and the 32-map design...so start saving up....
>
>There is no improved engine. 27 levels ain't so different from 32, and
>the episode screens are rather nice. So it's one weapon. I'm inclined to
>say it should be for DooM I, a game many more people on the Internet have.
I don't really care about the super shotgun either, but those new
monsters.. Well, that's another story altogether! :) I'm for Doom II.
And also, why is everyone talking so much about Deathmatch? Is this going
to be pretty much just a deathmatch WAD, or what? If so, it doesn't
really seem like we need to worry about new monsters, or themes as much,
etc. Normally the main focus for wads like these are single player
first. Personally, single player is all I care about. If it's just going
to be a WAD for deathmatch, I probably will never even play it.
-Jason
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:31:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Sprites for THE WAD
>DO you think it would really be a good idea to digitise
>potentially naff pictures of people dressed as soldiers as new
>monsters? I reckon the human theme is good, but I'm more for
>altering the existing sprites as someone suggested arming them
>with plasma cannons etc... I just reckon digitised people may
>lose the feel of Doom (like ROTT did) DC
I agree. Digitizing peolpe would make the game very dull, unless there are
some people with PROFESSIONAL imaging equipment
that can produce ID quality results from a picture. Other than that
I think altering the current HUMAN enemies would be cool, I suggested earlier
that we remove the arachnatron and replace it with a new human enemy armed
with a plasma gun. I'm all for making the game full of Human opponents.
Tom (Clock Paradox)
------------------------------
From: Mark York <MYORK@FS8HOST>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:39:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: id-ea
I believe that DooM ][ should be used as the base engine. Heretic is
nice, but it sufferes from a lack of reconization. DooM ][ is being
sold in the stores now, and I believe id concideres it their
money-making release. So, this will keep our friends at id happy.
I want in on this project. I MIGHT be able to get a trained artist or
two to help with the textures. I can do some textures my self, if we
can decide on the 'look' of out pics. I also have about 50 486/33's that I can
use for raytracing / nodebuilding.
Finally, I may be able to set up an irc channel with bots, so it'll
be online constantly. Not to sure about this though, since I would
have to talk someone into running them for me...
Mark
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:35:07 -0500
Subject: Re: The Wad - Here we go!
>MAIL DELETED BECAUSE OF LACK OF CONTENT
>
> :)
Thanks for your wonderful suggestion......
Hope for some more from you.
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:43:28 -0500
Subject: Re: New WAD
>I think it would be easiest to set up an ftp site, mail everyone the
>password, and add this site to a web page as well.
Thats the best idea I have heard yet, now who can do it!!? That would seem
the only logical way to actually get this thing done!!
Tom (Clock Paradox)
AOL is a friggin PARADOX!!
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:50:58 -0500
Subject: Re: The Wad.
>A second preference for Heretic is that, like Doom, it was built to be
>Shareware friendly. Id split it into shareware and registered, so why
>can't
>the Project do the same? An episode for Shareware owners and >two for the
>Registered
The reason for not doing a shareware support is becuase there are NO editors
out there that should support saving levels for Sharware doom. The whole
idea of making levels for doom was to get people to buy the real thing.
Anyway, Shareware doom cuts down on the # of textures (way down!) the # of
music selections, monsters, and so on. I'm not saying its impossible, but
impractical.
Tom (Clock Paradox)
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #177
**********************************
