Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 186
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #186
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Saturday, 25 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 186
Administrivia
Re: New WAD
Re: Let's move this to...
The Wad: Difficulty Levels
Re: The Big WAD
Re: Proj: non-hostiles...
Re: I know no Michael Abrash ;)
(Fwd) Re: The Wad!
Editor import question
Re: Let's move this to...
The project has seized control
Re: THE WAD - Update part2
The Wad
Re: The WAD
Re: Editor import question
Re: Let's move this to...
Re: Proj: non-hostiles...
Re: The WAD: game engine
Re: The Wad
Re: THE WAD - Update part2
Re: The WAD
Re: Let's move this to...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <agulbra@nvg.unit.no>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 19:32:45 +0100
Subject: Administrivia
This mailing list has had an extraordinary amount of traffic the last
few days; too much for the system to handle, really. Unsubscribing
20 people who were over quota on $MAIL, or whose mail bounced for
other reasons, helped a little, but there are still more than 380
subscribers. These people have not been notified, naturally.
If you don't follow the discussion actively, please consider moving
to the digested version of the list. You do this by sending this
message to majordomo@nvg.unit.no:
unsubscribe doom-editing
subscribe doom-editing-digest
Until the traffic goes down, the delays will be rather high, as I've
lowered the priority of doom-editing drastically. Finally, I may
have to move everyone who hasn't contributed to the list recently
over to the digest.
- --Arnt (postmaster, nvg.unit.no)
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 13:24:17 -0500
Subject: Re: New WAD
>If needed, I can free up a couple megs, ask admin for an ftp dir, and set
>it world-writable. But I, too, have to pay 2 bucks/meg/month, and I
>can't handle much more than 2 bucks a month, so we'd need to keep it
>under around 3-4 megs, depending on how much space I can free up
>otherwise. Comments?
I think we may have this problem solved through another server with 25 megs
or so, standby...
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 11:01:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Let's move this to...
>
> Hey,
>
> Remember the 'The WAD TEAM'? That list is still alive and hasn't been
> the most active for the past couple of months. I asked Mike Gholson
> (the list's care taker) if he would mind if we moved this there and,
> he said it sounded like the perfect place for it. So, I suggest that
> we move. What do you guys think?
>
> John
I whole-heartedly agree. There may be others on that list that want to
contribute as well.
Brian
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: johnsond@std.teradyne.com (Dean Johnson)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 10:58:08 PST
Subject: The Wad: Difficulty Levels
jdh15 <jdh15@po.cwru.edu> suggests...
> > That could be a stickler... how do we do difficulty levels? I don't
> > think a "formula" will work, since each WAD will be different, and yet
> > how can we judge objectively? (But uniformity IS good, in case I'm
> > coming across wrong here.)
>
> One thing we could do: Say I was assigned to write E3M4. I go to
> the FAQ, find out how many monsters of which type, how much ammo,
> health, bonuses, etc. there are on that level. Then I am required
> to stay within 10% of those numbers. (with exceptions like if
> there's lots of darkness or acid pools then extra light amps or rad
> suits to taste) This would have the advantage of not only keepng
> our levels consistent with each other, but keeping them close in
> difficulty to iD's original levels, which I felt were a decent
> balance of ammo vs. monsters.
Sounds good. The numbers could even specify what extra you get at the
different difficulties (e.g. Level 3 is base level, Level 1 can have
30% more health and 15% more ammo). The spec might include what
weapons appear at which levels.
- -Dean
- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean Johnson - johnsond@teradyne.com - Back off man, I'm a Computer Scientist!
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:43:38 -0500
Subject: Re: The Big WAD
>
>
>Raphael wrote:
>> ...We cannot change the level names without
>> hacking the EXE. I guess we should consider this as one more reason
>> to use a Doom-like theme in this "simple" project...
>
>Gives me another idea for a theme:
>
> There's been some talk about how excellent iD's levels are,
>and I agree, except for one minor point: What is level one? "The
>Hangar" Does it look like a hangar? Not to me. We could try
>writing 27 levels, each one actually looks like what it's called.
>Obviously on some (Deimos Anomoly, Dis) we'd have free reign, but
>"Military base," "Command center" etc. could be made to look like
>their namesakes...
>
>just a thought, my one for the day...
>
>-j
Jeremy, this is the best suggestion I've heard so far (at least for the
smaller of the two projects, if we split them). Personally, I'm into the
sci-fi thing, and I like the techy-looking wads that are out there. I think
if we used your suggestion from above, we would end up with a few levels
with that look. The other advantage to your suggestion is that the theme is
already somewhat in place.
Remember, everyone send me e-mail with a summary of your theme suggestions,
I will collect them until March 2nd, and then take a vote. Please have
"THEME SUGGESTION" in the subject line. Please, no votes yet, just
suggestions. Michael biggs at mbiggs@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au is still taking
the votes for which engine to use.
I have officially taken over taking names for contributors, so if you don't
see your name on my web page, send me e-mail. Until we decide exactly what
this project will consist of, I am only taking names for the list on my web
page, in other words don't send me detailed descriptions of your doom
editing experience, only what list you want to be on. Send a message with
one of the following subject lines:
PLAYTESTER
LEVEL DESIGNER
GRAPHIC ARTIST <-- use this one for textures, monsters, whatever
SOUND DESIGNER
OTHER <--include description of your talent offerings in message body
It seems that Tom Mustaine was having some problems with his net service at
AOL, so I will take over this job.
Tom - Are you still trying to send me an updated list of contributors?
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: Paul Francis Turnbull <stenger@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:52:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Proj: non-hostiles...
On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Scott Benner wrote:
> I read a few messages ago that someone was wondering if you can make "monsters"
> that follow you around. From my meagre hacking, I THINK you can set their
> near damage attack to 0...
>
> My question is: can you remove the hostility from the monsters? I'm looking
<snip>
>
>
> -- Scott Benner
>
I've done this for my non-violent Doom patch (a repulsive idea, I know) for
my son. Just remove the far and close attack frames using dehacked and you
get monsters that just follow you around. I made friendly ghosts using
semi-invisable, no clipping troopers with no attack frames. They walk
through walls (and you) and are kind of funny for a while (well, my son
likes them). You can still shoot them if you like also.
But as far as making a monster run away when it sees you the only monster
in doom that I've ever seen retreat is a seriously injured cacodemon. It
may be possible to make a non-violent retreating creature by replacing the
cacodemon and setting it's hit points to 1. (It's worth trying).
Just my .02,
Paul Turnbull
author of mayan667 and Doomball
------------------------------
From: Mark York <MYORK@FS8HOST>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:28:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: I know no Michael Abrash ;)
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 09:41:24 -0500 (EST)
> From: Bill Bessette <dsquid@li.net>
> To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Subject: I know no Michael Abrash ;)
> Reply-to: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
>
> So who is this guy? Clue me in....
>
> Bill
Sheez, where have you been living, a hole?
Micheal Abrash is on of the best assembly language programmers
arround. He wrote the books Zen of Assembly Language, Zen of Code
Optimization & Zen of Graphics Programming. He was a writter for
Doctor Dobb's Journal, and is now a co-editor for PC-Techniques.
Doom runs in the 'tweeked' video mode called Mode-X. He was one
of the first to find out how to use it. He comes fresh from working for
'Uncle Billy', where he helped optimize windows95/chicago. In short,
he is a code optimizing GOD.
That good enough?
- - Mark
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 15:38:24 -0500
Subject: (Fwd) Re: The Wad!
Ok,
Here is the subscribing info from Mike for how to get on the WAD-TEAM
Let's go before we break this server.
John
- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date: 24-Feb-95 14:44:17 -0500
From: mtg@peak.org (Mike T. Gholson)
To: JOHNW@DSC (John Wakelin)
Subject: Re: The Wad!
From: mtg@peak.org (Mike T. Gholson)
>> Go for it.....
>
>Ok I've posted the suggestion to the list. If they decide to go for
>it I will need to give them the subscribing information. Could you
>send that to me (I lost it)?
>
- ------------
Here's the format:
Send Email to majordomo@peak.org (our domain used to be csos.orst.edu)
In the body of that message include on ONE LINE this text:
subscribe wad-team
That's it.
+===========================================================+
| MIKE T. GHOLSON - mtg@peak.org - http://www.peak.org/~mtg |
| PEAK Staff Member - Computer Science Outreach Services |
| Instructor - Getting Started & Email and SLIP Services |
| Hardware Engineer - Dial-In Network Administrator |
+===========================================================+
| OUR NEW DOMAIN IS "PEAK.ORG" - Formerly CSOS.ORST.EDU |
+===========================================================+
- --------------------end----------------------
------------------------------
From: wdwhitak@grissom.jpl.nasa.gov (William D. Whitaker)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 13:00:04 PST
Subject: Editor import question
Hi all-
Is there an editor that allows import of a list vertices coordinates (x,y)
via a text file, Ive looked but can see a way to make DEU5.21 do it.
This would save me hours. :)
-Bill
------------------------------
From: sky@Verity.COM (Sky Golightly)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 13:29:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Let's move this to...
> On Feb 24, 12:00, John Wakelin wrote:
> Hey,
>
> Remember the 'The WAD TEAM'? That list is still alive and hasn't been
> the most active for the past couple of months. I asked Mike Gholson
> (the list's care taker) if he would mind if we moved this there and,
> he said it sounded like the perfect place for it. So, I suggest that
> we move. What do you guys think?
>
> John
> __________________________________________________________
> #include <stupidstuff.h>
> #define USER "johnw" /* John Wakelin */
> /* Johnw@datametrics.com */
> main() /* (703) 385 7700 */
> {
> while (isstupid(USER)) ignore(USER);
> }
>-- End of excerpt from John Wakelin
Fine. What's the subscribe address?
- -- sky
------------------------------
From: MSFell@AOL.COM
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 16:50:17 -0500
Subject: The project has seized control
It has been my estimate that Doom would start dying
down sometime this year. It still seems like it's going
strong right now, but as Romero says, within a few
months of Quake being released, Doom will be a fast
fading (but fond) memory. (Of course, all the good wads
will get converted to Quake, which will ease the transition).
I will not be surprised if THE WAD project is never finished.
In the meantime, perhaps non-project related messages could
have a *-* marker placed in their subject? Get it? <grin>
Matt Fell
msfell@aol.com
John Romero wrote:
>This sounds like a fun project for y'all, but how long do you
>really think it will take to get this thing together?
------------------------------
From: swift1@powergrid.electriciti.com (Dave Swift)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 13:49:06 -0800
Subject: Re: THE WAD - Update part2
>Fourth: Here is an updated list of the current contributers to "The wad"
Please include my name as a wad author interested in contributing to this
effort. I have completed dozens of completely new levels and worked with
graphics too. My current series is the H2HMUD competition wads which are
available everywhere. I look forward to seeing results from this
fantastic effort. Doom or Doom II wwould be my choice for these although
if Heretic is chosen, I'm still in. My wads have always been extremely
difficult.. mostly monsters and re-population tactics. I'll be glad to
maintain the intended standards of difficulty and architechture once there
is some decision of direction here. My vote is for a Doom 1/2 kind of
feel... 1st preference is for Doom II - it's gnarlier..
Doomed In SoCal,
Dave Swift ~ Campagnolo USA ~ Carlsbad, SoCal USA
Swift1@PowerGrid.Electriciti.Com ~ Stonehenge BBS (619) 929-6596
74401,1041@CompuServe.Com ~ SwiftDave@Aol.Com
------------------------------
From: adu@freenet.vcu.edu (Andrew Du)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 17:42:56 -0500
Subject: The Wad
Okay okay okay... So what's up with The Wad? Doom or Doom 2?
Doom 2 has a heck of a lot more features and a faster engine
than Doom.. I have clocked proof of this.
- --
******************************************************************
TTTTTTT DDDD MM MM
T h eee D D U U M M M M aaaa nnnn
T hhh e eee D D U U M M M a a n n
------------------------------
From: Joseph Fouche <jfouche@preferred.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 17:32:25 -30000
Subject: Re: The WAD
> > On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, John Romero wrote:
> > > There will be a tremendous Quake around that time. And you will
> > > all laugh at how small and silly and hard-to-modify DOOM is. You will
> > > instantly forget about DOOM, just as you all have forgotten about Wolf 3D.
>
> I wouldn't bet all your money on Quake making DooM obsolete. Frontier
I would.
.-------------------------------,---------------------------------------.
/ __ _ __ ** joseph s. fouche ** the 2.19.95 weekly .sig quote: \
| | (_` |_ ** kingsport, tn, us ** "You mean Uncle Robert?" \
| (_/ ._) | ** L I Q U I D ** --- _The State_ (Doug re. Dylan) \
\==========================================================================./
http://www.preferred.com/~jfouche
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 17:42:36 EST
Subject: Re: Editor import question
wdwhitak@grissom.jpl.nasa.gov (William D. Whitaker) ,in message <9502242100.AA1
5277@grissom>, wrote:
>
>
> Hi all-
>
> Is there an editor that allows import of a list vertices coordinates (x,y)
> via a text file, Ive looked but can see a way to make DEU5.21 do it.
Would a linux-based editor be useful to you?
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 16:50:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Let's move this to...
>Hey,
>
>Remember the 'The WAD TEAM'? That list is still alive and hasn't been
>the most active for the past couple of months. I asked Mike Gholson
>(the list's care taker) if he would mind if we moved this there and,
>he said it sounded like the perfect place for it. So, I suggest that
>we move. What do you guys think?
>
>John
Where is this list in case the subject is moved?
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: SWassell@sv.span.com (Stephen Wassell)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 11:10:55 GMT
Subject: Re: Proj: non-hostiles...
In article <9502232314.ZM26124@bray1c.its.rpi.edu> you write:
>I read a few messages ago that someone was wondering if you can make "monsters"
>that follow you around. From my meagre hacking, I THINK you can set their
>near damage attack to 0...
>
>My question is: can you remove the hostility from the monsters? I'm looking
>for the Syndicate effect; just people wandering down the street, running in
>fear at the sound of a gun. Its probably impossible, you'd need to code new
>responce patterns, but I'm wondering if anyone ever attempted this?
>
>It'd be really cool... Monsters that don't respond by sight but by your
>gunshot sounds...
If you set their speed to negative, reverse the front/back graphics, and
set all attack frames to 0 then you do get frightened passerbys. I don't
think that there's any way of making them just wander about aimlessly,
though.
Try setting a demon's speed to negative... and their far attack the same
as close... funny!
------------------------------------=*=------------------------------------
_____ __ __
/ ____)\ \ / / from Stephen Wassell Oh, what sad times are these
\____ \ \ \/\/ / SWassell@sv.span.com when passing ruffians can say
(_____/ \_/\_/ Try coopers.wad! "Ni" at will to old ladies.
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:02:35 -0500
Subject: Re: The WAD: game engine
>>
>> > I'm beginning to think we have 2 camps: those who want to make some really
>> > nice cohesive well-designed and implemented WADs, and those who want to
hack
>> > it to the point that no one can tell that it was ever DOOM (Htic,
whatever).
>> > Maybe the answer is to have 2 projects, based on that delineation
(previous
>> > posts had hinted at engine differences (D,D2,H) being separate projects).
>>
>> What would seem to be the best idea I've had so far would be to spawn a few
>> different mailing lists. One for a "Doom1 `The Wad'", one for a "Doom2 `The
>> Wad2'", and one for "Heretic `The HWad'". =8) That way each camp can play
>> in it's own sandbox. Those who aren't interested in helping out with the
>> "The Wad" project can opt not to subscribe to these groups and stick with
>> their original problem-solving in the Doom-editing mailing list. Those who
>> aren't interested in a particular `version' (Doom, Doom2, or Heretic) of a
>> "The Wad" group, can opt to not join that discussion as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Keith Reid
>> kwreid@helix.net
>> Keith Reid, Fidonet@1:153/859.0
>>
>>
> yes... but then that significantly drops the talent pool into 3
>separate groups. I think It should be for one engine. However, maybe
>someone can agree to convert it to another engine? maybe a 2 groups
>of 3 will convert it to the other engines. any thoughts?
>
>Eric
Eric, I think you're right here. I would like to see us all stick together,
and in my preference, it should be for doom one, with concentration on
making a good set of levels, with graphics, and sounds added only where
necessary to hold up the theme of individual levels.
Then, after that's done, we can set out to port it to other engines, and add
new monsters, weapons, whatever, and of course, put out some new levels that
work well with the new monsters, and weapons, etc...
What does everyone think?
- -Ross
------------------------------
From: thekid@ornews.intel.com (Brian Kidby)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:48:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: The Wad
>
> I like the INDIANA JONES theme too... I can't easily paly DM, so...
>
> Ed
>
Would be great for single-player, but I'd expect trouble from LucasArts...
Brian
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
thekid@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 16:48:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: THE WAD - Update part2
Raphael Quintet Wrote:
>I said: let's split the project in two. The first project would produce
>a WAD with new levels and a few new textures. But no big re-design of the
>monsters, no EXE patches, etc. Keep it simple! I suggest that this project
>is based on the Doom 1 engine (not Doom 2 because it doesn't have the nice
>intermission screens). The second project would be much bigger and have new
>monsters, new textures, new sounds, EXE patches, etc. That would create a
>brand new world (Total Conversion). I suggest that this second project is
>based on the Heretic engine, because you can fly, look up and down, select
>objects, etc. Since we would re-design the monsters and weapons, these
>differences between Doom and Heretic don't matter.
I think splitting is a great idea. However, let's do at least a few new
textures, just for variety. But., I agree. The 1st shouldn't be a total
conversion. Maybe a few new textures.
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
From: Anthony Spataro <ads@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 11:34:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: The WAD
(Lack of quote due to 300 baud connection--basically, someone was
commenting that Quake wouldn't necessarilly kill Doom.)
It is true that a true 3D game0, no matter how well it's shaded, will
never have the same look and feel as a sprite-scaling game (unless J.R.
or M.A. can write hellishly fast texture mapping routines). But Quake's
release might eclipse The WAD.
/ads@netcom.com
[LC/Cardy/Kilwren/Cardenyl
\PASO/Paradigm/Storm
---------------------------->
"The student in question is performing minimally for his peer group and
is an emerging underachiever."
------------------------------
From: setc@together.net (Ross Carlson)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 19:34:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Let's move this to...
>Hey,
>
>Remember the 'The WAD TEAM'? That list is still alive and hasn't been
>the most active for the past couple of months. I asked Mike Gholson
>(the list's care taker) if he would mind if we moved this there and,
>he said it sounded like the perfect place for it. So, I suggest that
>we move. What do you guys think?
>
Absolutely, the sooner the better! We are pissing some people off who are
on the list, but not interested in this project...they log in and have to
sift through 100 or so messages.
Anyone else interested - what's the best way to go about it?
- -Ross
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #186
**********************************
