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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 172
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #172
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Tuesday, 21 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 172
RCPT: Re: node generator comparison
STEALTH DEATHMATCH Starts?
RCPT: Re: id-ea
Re: Heretic Sky limitations
RCPT: Re: node generator comparison
Re: RCPT: Re: id-ea
The Wad - Here we go!
RCPT: Re: node generator comparison
RCPT: Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Fwd: The "WAD" - Here we go!
The WAD!!!
Re: Theme - "The Wad"
Re: WAD Tricks
RCPT: Re: id-ea
RCPT: Re: node generator comparison
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mark York <MYORK@FS8HOST>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 20:11:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: RCPT: Re: node generator comparison
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 21 Feb 95 10:46
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: node generator comparison
Was read at 20:11, 20 Feb 95.
------------------------------
From: genghis@ilces.ag.uiuc.edu (Scott Coleman)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 20:26:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: STEALTH DEATHMATCH Starts?
Just for snicks, I decided to play around with DCK 2.0 yesterday. I
started with something simple - just a couple changes to MAP 1 of DOOM
II: I got rid of the BFGs, moved the DEATHMATCH starts out of the
hallways, and added a couple teleporters. I noticed something VERY odd
while playing the resulting map: the three DEATHMATCH starts that I
moved are now "stealth" DEATHMATCH starts, i.e. when a player is reborn
there he makes NO noise and there is NO green flash - the player just
pops into existence! The others in my games confirmed this phenomenon,
and it's repeatable. And the Green player start up on the chainsaw
patio, which I did not move, still makes noise and a green flash.
Anyone else ever see this? Is there a way to control the effect, so that
it appears when you want it to and doesn't when you don't? I think it
has some fascinating possibilities...
------------------------------
From: Mark York <MYORK@FS8HOST>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 20:47:49 -0600 (CST)
Subject: RCPT: Re: id-ea
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 21 Feb 95 9:30
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: id-ea
Was read at 20:47, 20 Feb 95.
------------------------------
From: DTeeter@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 21:50:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Heretic Sky limitations
Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de:
>That "245" seems a bit arbitrary to me. I'd understand 128 (vertical
>texture tiling is reported to use 128 units/pixels), and 255. Guessing
>from limitations of post-like picture patches, as NoOf_ColoredPixels
>is 8 bit == 255 max, and Start_Row = 255 indicates end of column,
>thus even if you create a picture having two posts in each column
>(like one of the BROWN96 or BROWN144 patches - can't >remember which),
>the max. height of a picture is:
The 245 number is a limitation imposed by Deutex and Wintex, I get an "out of
memory" error from these apps if I try to insert a taller sky texture.
As to the sky height limitation of the Heretic engine, I am unable to test it
beyond 245 pixels high. I assume that Heretic will display taller skys if
they can be added to a wad...
dteeter@aol.com or inchq.com (Dan Teeter)
------------------------------
From: "David Cryer" <DAVID-C@mis.scitec.com.au>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 14:12:37 +1100
Subject: RCPT: Re: node generator comparison
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 21 Feb 95 10:46
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: node generator comparison
Was read at 14:12, 21 Feb 95.
------------------------------
From: sky@verity.com (Sky Golightly)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 20:03:06 -0800
Subject: Re: RCPT: Re: id-ea
> On Feb 20, 20:47, Mark York wrote:
> Confirmation of reading: your message -
>
> Date: 21 Feb 95 9:30
> To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Subject: Re: id-ea
>
> Was read at 20:47, 20 Feb 95.
>
>-- End of excerpt from Mark York
Please turn this feature off. Thank you.
- -- sky
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 23:35:13 -0500
Subject: The Wad - Here we go!
MAIL DELETED BECAUSE OF LACK OF DISK SPACE
------------------------------
From: "Andrew J. Vitale" <ANDREW-VITALE@augustana.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 23:24:18 CST
Subject: RCPT: Re: node generator comparison
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 21 Feb 95 10:46
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: node generator comparison
Was read at 23:24, 20 Feb 95.
------------------------------
From: "Andrew J. Vitale" <ANDREW-VITALE@augustana.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 23:26:25 CST
Subject: RCPT: Re: id-ea
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 21 Feb 95 9:30
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: id-ea
Was read at 23:26, 20 Feb 95.
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@remus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 1:05:40 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
>
> > Unless you made it for Doom II, since there was no shareware version.
> Good Idea
> >
> > >
> > Another cool thing incase someone actualy does this, would be to change
> > the text between levels. It's realy trivial to do with DeHackEd. I am
> > interested in doing this, and would be willing to arange it if no one else
> > wants to. (not that I want to, I just wana see it happen. and be a part
> > of it.)
>
> On this topic, is there an easy way to change those very
> annoying times for completion of levels.
>
> By the way, i'd love to be in on this ..
>
> Kram.
> Kram_Llens@rmit.edu.au RMIT, Melbourne, Australia
> Ph (03) 660 5378 Fax (03) 660 5342
> "I bought some dehydrated water, but I don't
> know what to add to it" -Steven Wright
>
I think the IWAD project should be designed for Heretic since it provides
more possibilities for DM play (eg - items, flight, powered-up weapons,
look-up/down, etc.) IMO. What does everyone else think?
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: Shriker <GILLS@qucdn.queensu.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 01:22:24 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
On Tue, 21 Feb 95 1:05:40 EST Ian Springer said:
>
<<snip>>
>I think the IWAD project should be designed for Heretic since it provides
>more possibilities for DM play (eg - items, flight, powered-up weapons,
>look-up/down, etc.) IMO. What does everyone else think?
>
>
>------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
> ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
> ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
>---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
HiYa ALL:
Ever since Heretic came out, and knowing the great stuff already done for DOOM
with dehacked, I've awaited someone to "remake" DOOM using the Heretic engine.
In other words, change the graphics and function (through dehacked) of the
weapons to make them perform/look like the DOOM weapons (& other graphics)
This would give us DOOM but with the look up/down feature, inventory list,
flight, water feature, etc. Now *THAT* would be something unique for "The
WAD" ! :)
Now this would require the use of graphics and sounds that are owned by ID.
If these weapons were limited to what's available in the shareware version of
DOOM (ie Episode 1) there shouldn't be TOO much of a problem. Any extra
weapon slots can be filled with new weapons (Flame thrower, grenade, etc), and
new power ups can be designed for those old weapons. While I like Heretic, I
still loke DOOM a bit better, especially for Deathmatch. Which reminds me,
instead of being able to turn your opponent into a chicken, perhaps it could
change him into one of those flying skulls (or something else DOOMesque). :)
I've always thought this would be a great add-on, although it would require
all the designers to get a registered copy of Heretic. With the right touch,
this could almost be a DOOM III considering the new features available to the
WAD creators!
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 01:55:19 -0500
Subject: Fwd: The "WAD" - Here we go!
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: The "WAD" - Here we go!
Date: 95-02-21 01:55:35 EST
From: TWM2029
To: doom-editing@nfg.unit.no
Lets try that again, Just to the mailing list-
Wow! What a response!! I have just recieved a TON of e-mail concerning the
production of "THE WAD" (temporary name, mabye). So far I have recieved 11
offers to help with the editing of the new wad. Now comes the fun part, lets
find out what we are going to do. I have recieved many suggestions for a
theme (will post at the end of list) and all of them sound great! I would
like to incoperate all of them in the final porject or if everybody likes 1
in perticular, we can focus our attention on that. Here is the list of
people on the team so far (forigve me if I forget anyone, lots of mail here!)
For level design:
Jeremy Holland - jdh15@po.cwru.edu
Josh Martel - JoshMartel@aol.com
Artemis Entreri - d9ij@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca
Ian P. Springer - ips@remus.rutgers.edu
Tom Mustaine - TWM2029@aol.com
American McGee - Amer@idsoft.net (<---yeah, that would be nice!)
(These are poeple that specifically suggested level design, I would
love to get a level from everybody, when we get a theme that is)
Others who want to contribute:
Richard Soderberg - richards@efn.org
Nick Ramirer - nramirez@bvsd.kiz.co.us
Jimmy Sieben (Evil Genius) - I -sieben@memphis.edu
Kram Llens - msnell@kitsune.art.rmit.edu.au
Greg Lewis - Gregl@umich.edu
Jason Oyer - Jdyer@indrect.com (Music Selections)
Casey Robinson - ogiswise@rahul.net
Also a very special contribution from
Ross A. Carlon - setc@together.net
Ross is currently trying to get together a World wide web page
for the project. Ross would maintain that web.
(Thanks!)
Ok, so far thats the list! Now comes the fun part!
Here are some ideas for a theme:
From Jeremy Holland, Idea #1
Although UAC got it's collective ass sued off after "the incident",
as it came to be called, it's back and going into production at its secret
base in Ohio. It's experimenting with mutagens, and some of its employees
have mutated into homicidal raving maniacs. (With which you're not
entirely unfamiliar.) After your promotion to God Incarnate of the Space
Marine Corps, you decided you wanted action again, and so when the call
went out for volunteers to infiltrate the UAC base, you jumped at the
chance. Now it will be your task to enter the UAC base and destroy the
mutants. You also need to perform recon, using access panels of computers.
(These could be switches that look like computers. When you push them, they
"turn on", giving you information about how to solve the level.)
You final mission is to destroy the generator. (JR's head-on-a-stick)
From Billy ? (sorry, cant find address!),
I'd like to propose the idea of a Doom-editing list IWAD, ive a bunch
of levels that work best with human style enemies, based on the idea of a
small town with random(ish) insertions of enemies.
If a bunch of us got together and pooled our skills we could build a
CLASSIC!
32 new levels.
20 new enemies (make the beasts thinner and faster and smarter?)
all new graphics
a new strategic/tactical theme
From Tom Mustaine,
My basic idea for a cool doom WAD would be a recreation of an outside
world. For example, in doom, you are mostly inside, under a roof, fighting
demons, and so on. I propose a wad where the player enters caves, walks up
"hills", enters big castle type buildings, small house like bulidings, yet
the level is based on the outside world. Add new GFX for things like trees
(real trees, not the doom probided ones), bushes, rocks, and so on. I would
also like to add a new enemy, a human enemy, one who shoots plasma! An idea
for that would be to remove the arachntron, replase its GFX with an altered
former human and change sounds to that of the former human characters. That
would give you another human opponent (like the shotgun, pistol and chaingun
dudes) but this one would be the one you wouldnt want to piss off! Anyway,
those are a few ideas for adding a totally new feeling to doom. I have a lot
of other ideas, future concepts, all sorts - but my main objective would be
to Re-Create doom. What I mean is, when ID did doom2, it was a huge step up
from doom1 (new textures, music, baddies, etc) What I would like to
accomplish with this wad is a Similar step up from doom1 to doom2 (in
essence, Doom3!) Ok, I'm off my soap box.
The Plan: Greg Lewis included in his message a general plan to follow for
this group. I like the idea so here it is.
1. Decide on theme, level types, overall stuff
2. Get textures developed (we gotta know what new textures there are
before we can do new levels)
3. Farm out levels, preferably 1 or 2 to a person. These can all be
done simultaneously (pretty much), along with...
4. New monsters/sprites. And a DeHackEd patch (if any).
5. Playtest extensively, and release!
Like Greg Said : 1st The theme! I suggest we brainstorm on a theme for now,
Keep posting
it on the doom-editing mailing list under subject :
THEME!! (or something similar) Why on the list you
ask? much easier than typing out everyones
internet addresses in the CC: area! So for now, We
must get a theme goin.
2nd - Texutures - After the theme is decided, we can appoint people to the
design of
special textures (if needed)
And so on, and so on. For now, lets just focus on the genereal theme! I
know a lot of you out there have designed great levels, once a theme is
decided on, I would hope that we can apply those levels to the WAD.
Finally: I think this is the general Idea for the WHOLE undertaking.
Game : DOOM2
New lvls: Oh yes, 32 Hopefully, with secret level access!
New GFX: Sprites, Textures and things
New SFX: Mabye, no one has specified anything on new sounds yet
New TEXT: I would hope so, the between level txt would be altered to fit our
theme
New MUSIC: A definite! New music is always good!
New Everything: <---that is what I think everyone is shooting for.
Well I hope this can get us started on the creation of THE WAD. Please
forgive the sloppyness of this message, I am trying to get this all start as
soon as possible!
Thanks, Tom Mustaine (Clock Paradox)
I will send this message to the Doom-editing list, and to all of your
internet accts.
For those who aren't included in the list above so far and want to join up!
Please post it on the list or send mail to one of the above!! The more input
the better!!
------------------------------
From: gene.homan@merlins-realm.com (Gene Homan)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 06:18:11 GMT
Subject: The WAD!!!
You know you're getting old when you forget things 10 minutes after you
read them. I was gonna email whoever is in charge (or guiding) the
Super WAD's construction, but I forgot the damn email address as soon as
I deleted the message.
All that for this, I would love to playtest and bug check the levels for
the WAD. I have access to the Web at my work place so, if the page is
gonna be the way we pass info, I'll have no prob getting the newest
updates.
Let me know when and where and I'm there. I'll help any other way I can
as well.
BTW, are we gonna have a sci-fi\fantasy theme or are we gonna do the
blow the stupid humans away motif? I'd like to see something different
and special for a base.
Later......
Gene Homan
gene.homan@merlins-realm.com
------------------------------
From: Derek Byrne <byrneda@alf2.tcd.ie>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 08:34:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Theme - "The Wad"
A few months ago, when I was interested in creating my own WAD, I did a
full set of plans (including a theme), which basically goes like :
"The marines are slowly taking back all of the over-run bases which
the aliens had attacked. Being the Marine-type you are, you were
selected to go down into the basement, along with 3 others, to clear up
any straggling aliens that happened to be there. (The Basement was what
you were going to be going through.. in DEU, it basically invovled
starting at a base level of -30,000 going up to about +30,000 :)
Unfortunately (as always?), you were attacked on the hoverlift when you
were going down (the hoverlift actually consists of anti-grav units
(using the blue circle textures) that resulted in a slow, yet rapid and
safe descent. The area that you were searching, was'nt your normal type
of basement.. it was actually a storage area for all the nuclear waste
that you see in the barrels, where there are "partitioned rooms" to
prevent one "massive explosion" occuring if something were to cause the
barrels to explode. There is also a safety barrier, which, although
hidden, would prevent you from getting radiation burns.. but due to the
lack of waste management since the alien attack.. everything has gone to
hell! (Here is were I thought that you could add in the mutating
humans.. and also new textures of broken walls (due to waste seepage,
and corrosion) and a couple of other goodies... )
To aid you on your way.. at every partition there were about 6 feet of
solid reinforced (actually called them RFD's, made up from 'fancy' words
that I read in a couple of Steve Perry's books about Aliens and was
wondering about Copyright for the 'jargon'?) doors, whereby when both
doors are closed, provide safety from any form of explosion, as well as
a (hidden?) closet where you can heal any burns or the likes, and stock
up on minimalistic ammo (the only gun you would have would be your
rifle, which would be adjusted to have the firing rate of the mini-gun,
but to stop trigger-happiness, would have a limit on ammo, and not much
ammo around (about 1 box at each service station)).
"
I have plans on how big the partitioned rooms would be. They would hold
approximately 20 to 40 barrels in each. The reinforced partioned doors
would be made to look solid and immovable (with about 3 doors to each
entrance (some of which don;t work, and you must find a way past them
via the service tunnel, which runs parallel to the one you are on, but
is more susceptible to radiation seepage (through the walls)), and where
in between each door, it would be vacuum sealed, so as to make sure that
nothing could get through).
Admittedly, I tried to do it, and it was'nt the best.. my version was
too narrow, and I can see that it would be fairly repetitive, as you
would be going up a stair-case, as it where, where each step is
incrementally 1 unit (in DEU) higher than the previous step (just
consider about creating 60,000 steps?? ;).
View : Picture this..
"You're walking down the main corridor.. there is a faint sound of
acid gurgling down drains, and into some reservoir of waste somewhere
beneath you.. it is dark.. very dark.. so dark that you can see the soft
glow of the waste, as it emanates a green glow where it lies.. it is
only barely possible to make out the light for the next door partition
in the distance.. everything seems fine down here, until you remember
about your comrades lying dead in the anti-grav lift (which was used for
the transportation of large crates of the nuclear waste into the bowels
of the earth). Suddenly, as if out of nowhere, a badly disfigured human
comes bumbling towards you.. what can you do?.. you have to get past
him, yet if I shoot I could possibly kill us both.. hell.. he aims,
fires... "
You could do it as the last reconnaissance report from the last team
or something like that.. so that when you go into the first holding
room, there would be no barrels.. just a cpl of fried carcasses.. as
well as a hold in the wall to the service tunnel to your right, which
tells you that the mutants are roaming the service tunnel as well as the
main tunnel.. yet you cannot get over to the hole in the wall due to the
force field preventing you from doing so.. and also because of the
massive doses of radiation that are receivable in that short space of
time between where you are standing and the service tunnel
(aprroximately 10 feet).
As for first aid.. instead of having the boxes.. I was thinking about
swapping some of the textures around so that it looked like you were
entering a cubicle which would heal you.. maybe have it whereby that it
resets your health value to 100%, but due to the lack of maintenance..
only a few of them are able to work more than once (which you place in
the areas of higher risk, where you might only come out with 1% health..
if at all.. ;)
Well.. I hope this will help you in your selection.. believe me, I
know that it is a big task, and would be glad to help out if the need
arises.
Yours sincerely,
Derek Byrne
(E-mail : byrneda@alf2.tcd.ie)
------------------------------
From: RKIRCHER@delphi.com
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 04:08:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: WAD Tricks
As it turns out, transparent doors are pretty simple to do. Build a
"normal" door, with two differences.
The first is to make the floor (and ceiling) of the door sector one higher
than the adjacent sectors. I don't know why, but making it the same height
results in HOM. The second is to bring the edges of the door to a point
where it contacts what would normally be the door track; eg:
| |
| /------------------------\ |
|/ door sector \|
|\ /|
| \------------------------/ |
| |
This is to avoid HOM at the ends of the door.
Set all textures of the door (upper, normal, lower) to transparent, and the
linedef types to wahtever door types you want.
This is an adaptation of a technique that was posted on r.g.c.d.editing a
while back; for the life of me I can't recall who posted that message.
------------------------------
From: "R.J.Dignall" <R.J.Dignall@sheffield.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:09:49
Subject: RCPT: Re: id-ea
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 21 Feb 95 9:30
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: id-ea
Was read at 12:09, 21 Feb 95.
------------------------------
From: "R.J.Dignall" <R.J.Dignall@sheffield.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:10:25
Subject: RCPT: Re: node generator comparison
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 21 Feb 95 10:46
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: node generator comparison
Was read at 12:10, 21 Feb 95.
------------------------------
From: Robert E Arthur <rea@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:20:15 +0100
Subject: Re: id-ea
> From: Kram Llens <MSNELL@kitsune.art.rmit.edu.au>
>
> > Unless you made it for Doom II, since there was no shareware version.
> Good Idea
> >
Hmmmm.... This is risky - can we be sure that all those who got Doom could
afford Doom II also (answer = no - I for one couldn't, and turned down the
offer of a pirate). I suppose since we are starting more or less from scratch
we could design levels for Doom I, and convert, but we'd never get to see the
final thing!
Besides - unless I'm very much mistaken, simply putting a weapon#6, or a
monster based on a caco causes SW doom to cough, splutter and die...
Byeeeee,
Bob.
------------------------------
From: Aragorn! <bsc4074@hades.dcs.napier.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:25:10 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: id-ea
On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Shriker wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Feb 95 1:05:40 EST Ian Springer said:
> >
>
> <<snip>>
>
> >I think the IWAD project should be designed for Heretic since it provides
> >more possibilities for DM play (eg - items, flight, powered-up weapons,
> >look-up/down, etc.) IMO. What does everyone else think?
> >
> >
> >------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
> > ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
> > ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
> >---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
>
From initial playing of Heretic for Deathmatch, it doesn't seem as good
as Doom. So designing levels for that might be a waste of time. Of course
this is just my opinion, maybe i've just got so used to playing Doom in
DM that nothing else seems that good, or maybe because the Heretic levels
just aren't that good for DM play and need some specifically designed
levels......
Although the ability to fly in Heretic is COOL for DM.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #172
**********************************
