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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 119
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #119
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 12 January 1995 Volume 01 : Number 119
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: Adding new music to PWAD
Re: Adding new music to PWAD
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: BLOCKMAP Limits
Re: Adding new music to PWAD
Respawning and Demigod enemy sounds...
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: consistency checking
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: Descent (sorry)
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: consistency checking
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: Heretic Sound???
Re: sidedef mode again
Re: Heretic Sound???
Re: Adding new music to PWAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 20:21:47 CST
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
> Something simple I have wished for in 5.21 - a way of running all the
> tests sequentially, rather than having to initiate each one individually.
Not a bad idea... I wonder if.....
Hmmm.... Ok, here's the formal idea:
The "Check Consistancies" pops up a dialog box with a whole list of check
boxes for each different check. Naturally, they're all initially selected.
Check on or off the boxes you want to test (or not test) and click ok.
Just add a button for "Toggle All" and you're set. That would be fairly
simple. I'll consider adding it once Raphael sends a compilable version
of the code (right now we only have half the code).
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: sullivan@onramp.net
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 20:23:13 CST
Subject: Re: Adding new music to PWAD
what is the complete path ???
Thansk,
FS
------------------------------
From: Stephen Gates <skg8310@email.unc.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:33:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Adding new music to PWAD
> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 20:23:13 CST
> From: sullivan@onramp.net
> To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Subject: Re: Adding new music to PWAD
>
> what is the complete path ???
> Thansk,
> FS
What do you mean "complete path?"
------------------------------
From: BlindGypsy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 01:30:32 -0500
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
Whats the problem with the occasional (intentional) creature overlapping
another creature? One of my PWADS, a 200K monster for dmatch play (what
else..) has 5 barons overlapped on top of a soul sphere; to get the sphere,
you must start killin! when only one remains, he is free to whip your a*s.
The only problem is with overlapping creatures is cosmetic; Maybe we should
make the editors check for pitiful texture selection, too?? :)
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 10:14:52 GMT
Subject: Re: BLOCKMAP Limits
l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben) wrote:
> I have headr that there is a limit on BLOCKMAP size. How can
>I determine if my BLOCKMAP is too big,
Don't worry: DOOM will soon tell you if it is! ;)
and how can I reduce it
>if so?
The blockmap limit is largely a function of the areal extent of your map:
the more of the grid you cover, the more blocks it'll need, basically. You
can calculate how many blocks your map will need as
((MaxY - MinY) div 128 + 1) * ((MaxX - MinX) div 128 +1)
where MinY, etc are the min and max Y and X co-odinates used by vertices in
your map. The magic number to stay below is 21844, I'm told.
You also have to keep the total BlockLists size down below 64K - you
usually hit this limit before the max number of blocks. The size of the
blocklists isn't easy to calculate: it's a function of how your lines
intersect your blocks. Maybe a nice editor should tell us how bug the
blockmap's getting when it saves the wad? [Hint Hint, editor writers]
>I am building a LARGE level, and I want to rid it of all bugs.
>Also, I am having a problem with my rising staircase. Every time I
>activate it, the bottom step's lower texture is tutti-frutti. None of
>the other steps are! What's wrong?
You've either got a see-through texture on its riser, or a texture that is
shorter than the riser. Difficult to see how on 8-pixel risers though.
Unless, of course, you're using the 16-pixel turbo stairs and STEP1, 2, or
3?
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: sullivan@onramp.net
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 06:25:19 CST
Subject: Re: Adding new music to PWAD
complete path ??
sorry, i guess that complete address would be a better way to ask my question
thank in advance !!
Fred Sullivan
------------------------------
From: Andrew Scott <raistlin@werple.mira.net.au>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 00:04:38 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Respawning and Demigod enemy sounds...
Howdy, can anyone tell me how i can set the respawning time for monsters
to 0secs? ie instantaneous? i have been working with the latest dehacked,
but there seems to be no options to do this... also, how can i turn off
the cyberdemon's/aracnatron's/spiderdemon's clanking walk sound through
hacking the doom.exe... i am at a total loss here... i heard that demigod
enemies get special consideration or something... okay thats all... thx :)
- -andrew scott :)
------------------------------
From: Derek Nickel <dnickel@ccnet.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 05:18:01 -0800
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
tedv@geom.umn.edu (Ted Vessenes) writes:
> The "Check Consistancies" pops up a dialog box with a whole list of check
> boxes for each different check. Naturally, they're all initially selected.
> Check on or off the boxes you want to test (or not test) and click ok.
> Just add a button for "Toggle All" and you're set.
How about "All" and "None" buttons?
Derek Nickel
dnickel@ccnet.com
------------------------------
From: fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 07:57:46 CST
Subject: Re: consistency checking
>> E Manual door type on one-sided LINEDEF
>
> What happens if the linedef is non-ST but is still 2-sided?
The problem will only occur with 1-sided lines. The manual door type
will use the sector on the other side of the line--if there is no other
sector then DOOM will crash.
>> W One-sided LINEDEF doesn't have Im bit set
>
> Not sure this one is necessary.
It's not, it's really just informational.
>> W Two-sided LINEDEF doesn't have 2S bit set
>
> This has uses.
Again, this is just informational.
>> W Two-sided LINEDEF normal texture has overlapping patches
>
> We still haven't completely figured this out yet. Romero, help?
My understanding is that as long as the texture has non-overlapping
patches and all the patches have a zero Y offset, then the texture can be
used on a 2-sided line.
>> W Texture not long enough
>
> Huh?
You read what I wrote, not what I meant. I meant here that the
normal texture on a 2-sided is not tall enough to reach from ceiling to floor
(since such textures do not tile vertically). This is also informational
as such an effect can easily be intentional.
>> W Special LINEDEF has zero tag
>
> If it's not a manual door.
I meant this only for those types requiring tags.
>> W Special SECTOR has zero tag
>
> uh, I can have a blinking sector without a tag.
I forgot what I really meant here.
>> W Teleport LINEDEF refers to more than one SECTOR
>
> I think this would be acceptable if there was still only one thing per
>difficulty level. Gotta investigate...
This is also informational. During game play, DOOM just teleports
you to the lowest # tagged sector and uses the lowest # teleport exit within
the sector.
I can see that there should probably be three levels of consistency
checks: error, warning, and informational. Errors would be those that crash
DOOM; warnings would be those that grossly affect game play or game appearance
(like missing textures); informational would be those that don't really affect
game play, but may cause effects that are unintended.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 08:00:12 CST
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
>> W More than 10 deathmatch starts
>That reminds me... why does e1m6 have 11 dm starts? hmm?
This is really informational. I haven't found any harm in having
more than 10 deathmatch starts, it's just that only the ten lowest numbered
starts get used.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 08:12:47 CST
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
>The "Check Consistancies" pops up a dialog box with a whole list of check
>boxes for each different check. Naturally, they're all initially selected.
>Check on or off the boxes you want to test (or not test) and click ok.
>Just add a button for "Toggle All" and you're set. That would be fairly
>simple. I'll consider adding it once Raphael sends a compilable version
>of the code (right now we only have half the code).
This would be nice to have. But what I would really like to see
is the results (list of problems) of the checks to appear in a separate box
rather than having to step through each of the problems as they occur during
the checks. I believe that it is DCK that provides a results list like
this. Of course some things in the list might be hard to find on the map.
(E.g. if a problem is "missing texture on LINEDEF #457" it might be tedious
to find #457 on the map). So perhaps selecting a particular problem would
make the map identify the problem area (like DEU does now when stepping
through the checks). The main problem with stepping through the problems as
they occur is that if you intentionally have such "problems", then you are
forced to see them over and over and perhaps can never even get beyond them
if you don't want them "fixed". It's at this point I give up performing the
checks.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: brad.willman@uniserve.com (Brad Willman)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 05:53:00 -1320
Subject: Re: Descent (sorry)
i can't quote again.. DARN...
um...
now all we need are 3ds specs in order to import the 3ds files.. :)
<Grin>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
brad.willman@uniserve.com (Brad Willman)
------------------------------
From: fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 08:28:55 CST
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
Another consistency check to add is player/deathmatch start position
checking. I have found that if a start position is centered on a 2-sided
LINEDEF is between two sectors of different floor heights, the player can
start stuck in the lower-texture wall. This happens because the player
standing on the floor of the lower texture, yet half of the player's body is
in the wall. You can spin around, but can't move otherwise. To illustate more
clearly perhaps:
upper sector
|-------------------
|
|
lower sector X <-- player is stuck here
------------------------|
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:26:23 EST
Subject: Re: consistency checking
fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr) ,in message <9501121357.AA0280
9@rocke>, wrote:
> >> E Manual door type on one-sided LINEDEF
> >
> > What happens if the linedef is non-ST but is still 2-sided?
>
> The problem will only occur with 1-sided lines. The manual door type
> will use the sector on the other side of the line--if there is no other
> sector then DOOM will crash.
So a manual door on a linedef that has two sides and doesn't have the 2S
bit will still affect the other side?
> >> W One-sided LINEDEF doesn't have Im bit set
> >
> > Not sure this one is necessary.
>
> It's not, it's really just informational.
Well, then prepare for 10bzillion warnings if an earlier post about heretic
was correct. I'm convinced that the Im bit is irrelevant on one-sided lines
and we should not even care.
> >> W Two-sided LINEDEF normal texture has overlapping patches
> >
> > We still haven't completely figured this out yet. Romero, help?
>
> My understanding is that as long as the texture has non-overlapping
> patches and all the patches have a zero Y offset, then the texture can be
> used on a 2-sided line.
That's what Steve says. I'm going to run with that.
> You read what I wrote, not what I meant. I meant here that the
> normal texture on a 2-sided is not tall enough to reach from ceiling to floor
> (since such textures do not tile vertically). This is also informational
> as such an effect can easily be intentional.
Ah, yes. I use it to make the zoo in (unreleased) canyon3.wad.
> >> W Teleport LINEDEF refers to more than one SECTOR
> >
> > I think this would be acceptable if there was still only one thing per
> >difficulty level. Gotta investigate...
>
> This is also informational. During game play, DOOM just teleports
> you to the lowest # tagged sector and uses the lowest # teleport exit within
> the sector.
What if that sector has no target? Does it go to the next sector and look
for a target there? I've never experimented with this.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:29:33 EST
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr) ,in message <9501121412.AA0281
5@rocke>, wrote:
> This would be nice to have. But what I would really like to see
> is the results (list of problems) of the checks to appear in a separate box
> rather than having to step through each of the problems as they occur during
> the checks.
Gee, sounds like the PFME to me :)
> I believe that it is DCK that provides a results list like
> this. Of course some things in the list might be hard to find on the map.
> (E.g. if a problem is "missing texture on LINEDEF #457" it might be tedious
> to find #457 on the map).
That's why you have a button that says "Mark" and a way to cycle your
highlight through the marked set. I also need to add a way to center on the
highlighted object.
p.s.
pfme is a linux-based editor, so don't get all hot over it unless you have
Linux and X.
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 9:29:43 CST
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
> This would be nice to have. But what I would really like to see
> is the results (list of problems) of the checks to appear in a separate box
> rather than having to step through each of the problems as they occur during
> the checks. I believe that it is DCK that provides a results list like
> this. Of course some things in the list might be hard to find on the map.
> (E.g. if a problem is "missing texture on LINEDEF #457" it might be tedious
> to find #457 on the map). So perhaps selecting a particular problem would
> make the map identify the problem area (like DEU does now when stepping
> through the checks). The main problem with stepping through the problems as
> they occur is that if you intentionally have such "problems", then you are
> forced to see them over and over and perhaps can never even get beyond them
> if you don't want them "fixed". It's at this point I give up performing the
> checks.
I don't want to delay DEU 5.3 any more. Maybe that will go in a DEU 5.31,
or in DEU 6.0.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:34:04 EST
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr) ,in message <9501121428.AA0282
3@rocke>, wrote:
> Another consistency check to add is player/deathmatch start position
> checking. I have found that if a start position is centered on a 2-sided
> LINEDEF is between two sectors of different floor heights, the player can
> start stuck in the lower-texture wall.
You know, that is one of the more annoying saved game bugs in doom,
especially on "The Chasm". But it does happen elsewhere. I had to rescue my
roommate from a bad save. Good thing we know the cheat codes.
However, before this becomes a truly cool check, we need to know the
boundary conditions.
Does it happen when the floor heights differ by 24 or less?
Does it happen when the start position is not EXACTLY on the line? (rounding
is a dangerous thing)
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 9:34:00 CST
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
> > The "Check Consistancies" pops up a dialog box with a whole list of check
> > boxes for each different check. Naturally, they're all initially selected.
> > Check on or off the boxes you want to test (or not test) and click ok.
> > Just add a button for "Toggle All" and you're set.
>
> How about "All" and "None" buttons?
Technically stated, you wouldn't need them. They already start all selected,
so just click toggle all if you want none. Though that's a good idea as
well. Just keep in mind that I want this to be a very quick hack. If it's
any longer, it'll be a good deal of extra debug time: extra time we [the
DEU people] don't have.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: cmacord@fedex.com (Charlie Acord)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:51:08 -0600
Subject: Re: Heretic Sound???
This is not DOOM-editing related, but I thought a lot of you folks might be
interested in this. If not, well shucks, I guess you'll just have to flame
me....
Quoted below is American McGee's response to my EMAIL asking why support for
the PC speaker was left out of HERETIC. My note pointed out that the vast
majority of PCs *do not* have sound cards. It's certainly possible that the
majority of PCs purchased now are bought with sound cards, but there is over
100 million out there already. I pointed out that IMHO they were turning
their backs on a huge customer base, since (again IMHO) DOOM, HERETIC, et
al, are unplayable without any sound
at all. As you can see, he was apparently not impressed with my arguments.
==========================================================================
>Return-Path: <american%idcube.idsoftware.com@internet.fedex.com>
>From: American McGee <american%idcube.idsoftware.com@internet.fedex.com>
>Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 14:33:09 -0600
>To: ca52872@dcdserver (Charlie Acord)
>Subject: Re: Heretic Sound???
>
>: Was this an oversight? Or a dumb decision? Please bring out a HERETIC 1.01
>: with PC speaker support.
>
>We just decided that it was silly to continue using PC speaker with our
games.
>The sound usage in Heretic is more complicated than that in DOOM, so we could
>not have done the sounds justice with the PC speaker.
>All of our games from now on will exclude support for PC speaker.
>
>---
>-American McGee (american@idsoftware.com)
> aka help@idsoftware.com
> id Software
>
>ftp.uwp.edu[131.210.1.4] id "Official" anonymous FTP site
>
>ftp.orst.edu id's other "Official" anonymous FTP site
> -----------------------------------------------
> For the latest info on DOOM, QUAKE and other id
> news, FINGER help@idsoftware.com
> -----------------------------------------------
>NeXT Mail preferred.
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Charlie Acord, "the Green Marine" | "Wow, I just found the plasma rifle!"
Telecom Div/FedEx/Memphis/TN | "No kidding?"
(home of BBQ, the blues, and Elvis) | "Yeah, turn around and I'll show you"
Internet: cmacord@fedex.com |
CompuServe: 75143,621 | #include <std_disclaimer.h>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 12 Jan 1995 16:36:16 GMT
Subject: Re: sidedef mode again
> This would be nice to have. But what I would really like to see
> is the results (list of problems) of the checks to appear in a separate box
> rather than having to step through each of the problems as they occur during
> the checks.
[deletia]
Another thing that would be really nice to have is to be able to
flag an "error" as intentional. Then, the program would stop
bugging you about it every time you did a consistency check.
- -j
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
ASPARAGUS is available year-round but is at its best in the spring.
-Look for plump, crisp, straight, unshriveled stems and tightly furled tips.
-Refrigerate in a moist wrapper for no more than a couple of days.
-Asparagus is rich in vitamins A and C.
-The stalks have been a treasured food since ancient times.
<from the Cleveland Plain Dealer, April 6th, 1994>
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Jeremy Holland
jdh15@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Cleveland, Ohio
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:55:01 EST
Subject: Re: Heretic Sound???
cmacord@fedex.com (Charlie Acord) ,in message <199501121555.AA50337@gateway.fed
ex.com>, wrote:
> ==========================================================================
> >Return-Path: <american%idcube.idsoftware.com@internet.fedex.com>
> >From: American McGee <american%idcube.idsoftware.com@internet.fedex.com>
> >Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 14:33:09 -0600
> >To: ca52872@dcdserver (Charlie Acord)
> >Subject: Re: Heretic Sound???
> >
> >: Was this an oversight? Or a dumb decision? Please bring out a HERETIC 1.
>> 01
> >: with PC speaker support.
> >
> >We just decided that it was silly to continue using PC speaker with our
> games.
> >The sound usage in Heretic is more complicated than that in DOOM, so we coul
>> d
> >not have done the sounds justice with the PC speaker.
> >All of our games from now on will exclude support for PC speaker.
He's right. Myst doesn't support the PC speaker either. They're aiming at
higher end machines and don't want to be dragged down by restrictions of
dinky boxes. I'm sure there are zillions of PC ATs out there, and they're
ignoring that market too.
It sucks when you get classified obsolete, doesn't it. Life sucks, get a
sound card :). Now if only I could find that fix from Gravis for DOOM II...
------------------------------
From: Ken Tittle <kenti@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 09:24:04 TZ
Subject: Re: Adding new music to PWAD
ftp.cdrom.com
- -= Ken =-
- -snip-
|
| what is the complete path ???
| Thansk,
| FS
|
|
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #119
**********************************
