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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 176
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #176
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 22 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 176
THE WAD SHOULD BE FOR DOOM2
Sprites for THE WAD
Alpha test PFME
the WAD
Re: id-ea
Re: WAD Tricks
Re: "The Wad" Name Suggestion
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: Sprites for THE WAD
Re: The Wad - Here we go!
The WAD!
Project, not Wad name
Re: THE WAD SHOULD BE FOR DOOM2
Re: id-ea
Re: THE WAD DOOM2 only - NOT
DMapEdit V4
Re: Radical new thread...
RE: Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: Sprites for THE WAD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 08:28:07 +0000
Subject: THE WAD SHOULD BE FOR DOOM2
I know it is not so wide spread as DOOM1, but think of the extra
enemies you'd be excluding... My vote is for Doom2.
------------------------------
From: D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 08:36:10 +0000
Subject: Sprites for THE WAD
DO you think it would really be a good idea to digitise
potentially naff pictures of people dressed as soldiers as new
monsters? I reckon the human theme is good, but I'm more for
altering the existing sprites as someone suggested arming them
with plasma cannons etc... I just reckon digitised people may
lose the feel of Doom (like ROTT did) DC
------------------------------
From: mlefebvr@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 02:01:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Alpha test PFME
I would like to test this program..
mlefebvr@sdcc15.ucsd.edu
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 22 Feb 1995 13:15:32 GMT
Subject: the WAD
I have one thing to say:
Flamethrower
Flamethrower
Flamethrower
Wait, that was 3 things...
- -j
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Wer immer strebend sich bemueht, den koennen wir erloesen"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- -Goethe
Jeremy Holland
jdh15@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
http://maniac.cwru.edu/~deth/
------------------------------
From: Chainsaw Jim <jimu@allmalt.cs.uwm.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 07:29:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: id-ea
> Tell ya what. I've got a pretty large collection of sound effects and
> musics--would you like me to send you some? (Let's decide on the format
> I can send them in as soon as we decide on the theme...I throw my `vote'
> in for the mutated-humans theme, myself.)
Of course it's just my opinion, but I've never cared for sound replacements.
And I turn even the original music off. This is why I really appreciate
it when a large wad project distributes sounds in a separate wad.
CJ
------------------------------
From: "Jason Hoffoss" <hoffo002@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 08:37:35 CST
Subject: Re: WAD Tricks
On Mon, 20 Feb 1995 16:44:01 GMT,
Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>I wrote:
>> [lots of complicated stuff about a possible transparent door deleted]
>>
>Then I looked at SPCHAUNT.WAD by Robert Fenske, Jr. and felt very
>crestfallen. Somehow Alberto Basalla has managed to work out a
>transparent door with only one sector! Can anyone explain why the
>middle texture moves with the door, even though it's drawn where the
>upper texture should be?
>
>Steve.
Sounds like you need to change your lower texture pegged status. Lower
pegging controls both the lower texture and the middle texture.
-Jason
------------------------------
From: Ed Phillips <flaregun@udel.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 08:37:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: "The Wad" Name Suggestion
On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Enigma wrote:
> "Trials and Tribulations"
Yeah... "TNT"!
> "Destination: Confidential"
D.C. Wad!
I like these two.
Ed
/****************************************************************************/
/* Ed Phillips flaregun@udel.edu University of Delaware */
/* Jr Systems Programmer (302) 831-6082 IT/Network and Systems Services */
/****************************************************************************/
------------------------------
From: Bill Bessette <dsquid@li.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:11:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: id-ea
On Tue, 21 Feb 1995, Ian Springer wrote:
> 2) it can be argued that the weapons are not as good for DeathMatch
> (but even if they're not quite as good, which is all personal opinion
> and habit anyway, the ability to use the various items more than
> compensates - esp. the wings and the ovum)
Doom is far superior in terms of deathmatch play. In heretic, its hard
to track your opponent, and even when you do spot them, the weapons
spew so much smoke and peripheral stuff that its impossible to keep a
bead on them. Sort of like unloading a plasma gun against a wall,
only doing it every time you fire a shot.
It is my contention that it should be a straight Doom or Doom II level,
with no Dehacked objects. Add textures and sound/music galore,
but dont muck with the engine or the wonderful balance it affords us.
IMO, iD will be hard pressed to match the deathmatch playability
they achieved when creating Doom.
+====================+========================================+
| William Bessette |"The most merciful thing in the world, |
| Systems Analyst | I think, is the inability of the human |
| New York, NY | mind to correlate all its contents." |
+====================+========================================+
| dsquid@li.net | http://www.li.net/~dsquid/sepia.html |
+====================+========================================+
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:41:36 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
Ian Springer <ips@romulus.rutgers.edu> ,in message <CMM-RU.1.4.793423473.ips@ro
mulus.rutgers.edu>, wrote:
> 2) it can be argued that the weapons are not as good for DeathMatch
> (but even if they're not quite as good, which is all personal opinion
> and habit anyway, the ability to use the various items more than
> compensates - esp. the wings and the ovum)
Hmm, I wonder. I would consider a weapon which gives an unfair advantage
bad for deathmatch. I got the impression that all the Heretic weapons except
the phoenix rod were fairly wimpy. That would be great for deathmatch. No
more "SMACK one, you're out".
------------------------------
From: "Chris Campbell (ME)" <ccampbel@suntan.eng.usf.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:44:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Sprites for THE WAD
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995 D.Casali@rea0808.wins.icl.co.uk wrote:
> DO you think it would really be a good idea to digitise
> potentially naff pictures of people dressed as soldiers as new
> monsters? I reckon the human theme is good, but I'm more for
> altering the existing sprites as someone suggested arming them
> with plasma cannons etc... I just reckon digitised people may
> lose the feel of Doom (like ROTT did) DC
>
Why not have a home-grown cartoon theme? Someone on the "WAD" team who
is also a good artist can draw up cartoon looking monsters and textures.
This would save the expense of taking pictures of new sprites. Just an idea.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:46:18 EST
Subject: Re: The Wad - Here we go!
MAIL DELETED BECAUSE OF LACK OF CONTENT
:)
------------------------------
From: jefross@ix.netcom.com (Jeff Ross)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 07:23:07 -0800
Subject: The WAD!
If we're re-doing all of the textures and sprites, why don't we use
Heretic's engine? It's practically the same engine, but with many
improvements that can we can exploit to make the ultimate Patch!
Id is already releasing the extra levels for Doom2, and there are
already so many levels for Doom1 and 2.
We need to forge new ground as wad editors, and Heretic can be that
vehicle. I know not many people have it yet(I would have to buy it,
too.) But what's an extra $40 bucks in relation to the time we're
already going to commit to this package?
Let's get on the IRC sometime to discuss this in semi-real time.
And count me in as a level designer.
Jeff Ross
Author of Diehard, Diehardr & Bespin WADS.
(Coming Soon, IndyJonz & Rooftops)
------------------------------
From: swift1@powergrid.electriciti.com (Dave Swift)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 07:10:17 -0800
Subject: Project, not Wad name
>
>Nobody has mentioned how long they think I should take ideas on the name
>until we call for a vote. I think I should take name ideas for a week.
>
The wad name should not be determined under pressure at this early stage...
it's got to reflect the nature of the game.. I agree that a PROJECT NAME
should certainly be determined now, then the real work can start... the name
will become obvious during this period as all will have time to reflect on
the results....
Doom 2 is the game.. sure everyone has Doom 1 but Doom 2 is better. Also,
our founders at id will enjoy the sales effort in promoting Doom 2. :-)
Id like to be included in this effort. My levels are Mud. My name is
Mud. With a few dozen full featured from scratch behind me, I'd love to
help out in level design and creation. Please put me on the list.
Dave Swift ~ Campagnolo USA ~ Carlsbad, SoCal USA
Swift1@PowerGrid.Electriciti.Com ~ Stonehenge BBS (619) 929-6596
74401,1041@CompuServe.Com ~ DaveSwift@Aol.Com
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 9:30:47 CST
Subject: Re: THE WAD SHOULD BE FOR DOOM2
> I know it is not so wide spread as DOOM1, but think of the extra
> enemies you'd be excluding... My vote is for Doom2.
You are mistaken. The same enemies in the DOOM2 exe are also in the DOOM exe.
By simply including the sprite sets for, say, the archvile, you could put an
archvile in a DOOM I wad and it wouldn't crash when it tried to load the
sprites because the sprites are already there. As long as you guys are doing
a full redo of all the sprites, it won't matter object-wise if you use DOOM I
or DOOM ][. Textures will matter I suppose, but people have vied to make new
ones of those to. Then the only restriction is the choice of floor/ceiling
textures.
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: James Allen Urbas <jimu@allmalt.cs.uwm.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:06:35 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: id-ea
> Ian Springer <ips@romulus.rutgers.edu> ,in message <CMM-RU.1.4.793423473.ips@ro
> Hmm, I wonder. I would consider a weapon which gives an unfair advantage
> bad for deathmatch. I got the impression that all the Heretic weapons except
> the phoenix rod were fairly wimpy. That would be great for deathmatch. No
> more "SMACK one, you're out".
>
Hmmmmm Hmmmmm. The rocket launcher is arguably the most fun deathmatch
weapon in Doom. At least for me. The chainsaw comes in second.
Of course, Quake WILL have hammers. hammerswillbecoolhehheh. Anybody
ever use a meat tenderizer?
------------------------------
From: Bernd Kreimeier <Bernd.Kreimeier@nero.uni-bonn.de>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:11:12 +0100
Subject: Re: THE WAD DOOM2 only - NOT
> -Ted
> it won't matter object-wise if you use DOOM I or DOOM ][. --
Right. I posted entirely the same yesterday evening. Sigh. Have to
get used to these delays, I guess.
> Textures will matter I suppose, but people have vied to make new
> ones of those to. Then the only restriction is the choice of floor/ceiling
> textures.
If people would vie to do really new textures, they'd have to do
new pictures as well. If they do new pictures, they could as well
do 64x64 pictures stored as flat lumps for floors & ceilings.
"The WAD" could work for owners of DOOM1 and DOOM2 registered both,
as a standalone DOOM2.WAD, depending on the amount of sprites, pictures
and sounds provided. The *real* problem is to find a way it won't work
for the shareware DOOM as well - iff Id still objects.
B.
------------------------------
From: spielbauer@ohf015.hf.op.dlr.de
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:18:43 MEZ
Subject: DMapEdit V4
I tryed to send this message to Jason directly, but got no response.
But I saw that Jason does a lot of mailing to this list so
I send it now to this list.
I used you DMAPEDIT programm to bring my pwad from DOOM I to
DOOM II to get all the new monsters. It is really very nice to
handle, very fast to use:
- -display of the things as sprites
- -map shift with mouse
- -multi object editing
- -sector generating
- -display of the textures, even the exchanged ones!!
...
But I also had some problems:
- -when I have a sector with a lot of corners and I want to
lower the number of lines, I put two vertexes on top of
each other to delete a line in this sector. But the hole
sector information (foor and ceiling height, texture) of
this sector and the neighbour sectors gets lost. It seems to
generate one big sector with the same parameters.
- -I have problems using the copy and paste feature with
things. After some use I can not select things any more.
The green markbox apears somewhere else on the screen, but
not at the position of the thing.
- -the worst problem is the map (node) generator. After some editing
it is not working propperly. So I always exit the programm and
then start it again and start the map building with no other
actions before. This helps.
But now it makes anyway problems: Some monsters don't attack me.
I can run around them but they don't move unless I shoot on them.
So I used the BSP 1.1 to generate the map and then it worked fine,
but I lost all my replaced textures.
If you never had this problem and you want to see it on you owne,
I can send you my pwad file.
I think this problem is the reason, why this pwad crashes with the
message CONSISTENCY ERROR while playing deathmath.
If this editor gets more relyable it seem to get the best editor
for pwad. It would be nice if you give me some feedback about
this error report and perhaps some tips to avoud these errors
!Snider (near Munich, Germany)
E-Mail: spielbauer@ohf015.hf.op.dlr.de
------------------------------
From: spielbauer@ohf015.hf.op.dlr.de
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:09:52 MEZ
Subject: Re: Radical new thread...
On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, John Wakelin wrote:
> I am sorry to have to post this to
> My_Editor_Rules_Yours_Sucks@nvg.unit.no but I'll risk the flame bath
> anyway.
>
> I've got this little deathmatch WAD I've been building. I'm trying
> to make it *extreamly* nice. It is not complicated but, there is
> some detail to it. I took some extra time to put shadows off of
> some of the buildings, and the son_of_a_gun blows up after running
> fine for a while. It pukes out this...
>
> R_DrawPlanes: Visplanes Overflow (129)
>
> Obviously a buffer limit is being reached here, but I have never run
> into this before(and I have made some extreamly complex wads).
>
> I am no newbie, and I am not missing anything basic (texture, tag,
> sidedef). When I go in and remove the shadows it runs fine. If it
> was too many texture lines in view, I would have expected HOM but
> this is weird.
>
> If you have run in to this before (or are the head programmer of the
> best game on earth), and know what the deal is give me a shout. I have
> already decided to remove the detail and release it in a lesser form.
> I would love to find a way to leave it in, however.
>
> I appreciate your patience with my interruption...we now return to
> the battle already in progress.
>
> Have a good day,
> John
>From what I know, visplanes are x-y parallel planes, so not lines, but
>floor/ceiling areas in view. Each sector, I think, that has a visible
>floor and/or ceiling will require it's own visplane. So, you basically
>have too many sectors in view. Your shadowed areas require new sectors,
>and this is creating too many visplanes. You might try combining sectors
>into extended sectors (make all the shadow area sectors into one
>sector). I dunno if this would work or not. It might generate
>individual polygons for each visplane instead. This is pretty much my
>guess, though. I could be totally wrong. :) But hey, the path to
>enlightment starts with an educated guess, right? Having been messing
>with 3D drawing lately, this seems like what's probably going on. I
>haven't completely figured out how Doom draws those floors in yet.. :)
-Jason
I got the same error in my wad. I can not agree with Jason, that it
depends on the number of sectors. In my wad it happend in a
particular room where you can only see about 20 sectors.
In this room I had pillars each made with eight onesided lines.
I reduced these pillars to four lines (lost a lot of beauty).
Now it seems to work. The number of sectors did not change.
!Snider
------------------------------
From: Aragorn! <bsc4074@hades.dcs.napier.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:14:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: RE: Re: id-ea
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, John Minadeo wrote:
>
>
> > I agree. Not to rag on any existing levels, but It is hard to convert
> > levels that already exist. BTW, we can use anybody that can do anything!
> > We'll need level editors, texture editors, sound people, TONS of playtesters,
> > and probably a few coordinators to keep the project moving. I think it'd
> > be cool if we got some known people to help (Steve McCrea sp? Richard R. Ward,
> > etc...) Also, we need a common forum for discussion. This list really isn't
> > appropriate, I think, because not everyone would be interested. Just my $.02
> > on the project.
> > -- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
> >
> I'd be willing to help out but aside from playtesting the only thing I
> can think that I can offer is a friend of mine has and Amiga 4000 with a
> VideoToaster 4000. That is one hell of a modeller and I would think that
> it isn't a problem to render to frames and port the pics to whatever
> system. Could come up with some intersting monsters and or weapons or
> whatever. Let me know! I know he'd be willing to donate the time to work
> on his toaster. Incidentally, this needs to become another mailing list
> so we don't clutter up the wad editing list...
>
> -jminadeo
> A little nobody in a Sea of
> nobodies... (No offense to anyone.)
>
>
Video toaster.... Cool, although 3d studio or any of many such pc-based
renderers could be used. Does this mean we end up with a set of levels
that look like Babylon 5?
Like the idea of a mailing list just for this big wad though.
Don't forget this WAD could take some time to develop, after all new gfx
won't be here overnight and without them building the levels will be not
be too easy to perfect.....
I assume perfection is what we are going for.
------------------------------
From: M&Ms <millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:57:20 CST
Subject: Re: id-ea
"Too many cooks in the kitchen" :)
It appears there is a lot of talk on whether DOOM, DOOM2, or Heretic
should be used. If there can't be some type of agreement up front
on at least which engine, how is this thing going to be cohesive or
ever get going?
Guess I'll throw my $2000.02 (a gov't $.02) into this fray.
>>Engine
Doom2. I know MORE people have DOOM but DOOM2 is available thru
retail and people are still getting it (of course). These people
are also starting to get Inet accounts. I don't know a lot of
people clammering for DOOM1 anymore.
>>People
Yes, I think you will need all kinds BUT be careful putting too
many in one area. Could be a mess. (Except for playtesters). If
you set up a Web page so people can get graphics seen (and people
can say "yeah, that's cool") or an FTP site where people can
download pics, layouts, etc. you can get the most input. I think
you need to go with majority (unless it is very close).
>>Things done first
1) I think an engine needs to be picked. 2) get the theme nailed
down. 3) Figure out where people will be. 4) Try to set some
time limits so this don't come out in 1999. 5) Get that Web page
or FTP site.
>>Themes
Well, I had a few I'll toss out. There have been a few well done
themes that people always ask for. Aliens and StarWars...
People identify with movies. I was tossing around a couple ideas.
a) In the movie vein...you get whisked back in time to early 1900's
...in Hollywood, but THESE ain't no actors... 1st set of levels
could be around gangster theme (tommy guns, billy club) (IN BLACK N
WHITE!, dark streets, lots of shadows, buildings, warehouses, dockside)
(gangsters of course)... moving to 2nd set of levels which deal with
the ol' monsters theme (wooden stake, silver bullets) (castles,
swamps, dark) (mummy, vampire, franky, wolfman, creature from
black lagoon)...moving to 3rd set of levels which deal with the
other set of monsters (varied weapons) (small buildings (under your
feet :), seas, islands), (godzilla-type, gamaron-type)...NAME:
HOLLYWOOD DOOM
b) In the "evil" vein that the doom creators were trying to
establish... Does anyone ever remember the comic book Son of Satan?
How about Satan being really ticked off at you (the Son of Satan).
You have an assortment of weapons (similar to hellstaff from Heretic,
a tail (?what...remember Shadowcaster?)) (working your way up from
the depths of Hell, many shadows) (demons of many types and shapes).
This theme would use elements from all 3 games...the level-type
design from DOOM1, the engine and some other things from DOOM2, and
the weapon design from Heretic. NAME: ESCAPE WISCONSIN (sorry, I
couldn't resist ;)).
Just some quick cheapie thoughts....for scorn and ridicule.
_ o o | Michael(M&M's)(millerm@uwwvax.uww.edu)(TEAM OS2) | _ _ o o
\/o\ o o | Working? at UW-Whitewater; Ren- SysSnot HHJJ BBS | \/o\o\ o
/\_/ | (414-699-5560; 9am-2am CST; VBBS/2) | /\_/_/
------------------------------
From: Klaus Breuer <sz0759@rzcip21.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 18:34:42 MET
Subject: Re: Sprites for THE WAD
> DO you think it would really be a good idea to digitise
> potentially naff pictures of people dressed as soldiers as new
> monsters? I reckon the human theme is good, but I'm more for
> altering the existing sprites as someone suggested arming them
> with plasma cannons etc... I just reckon digitised people may
> lose the feel of Doom (like ROTT did) DC
I agree. ROTTs enemies looked lousy in the extreme - felt like
shooting at cardboard cutouts.
We'll have to pay close attention to shading, I guess...
Ciao,
Klaus
PS: I'm willing to design levels as well.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #176
**********************************
