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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 101
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #101
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Wednesday, 28 December 1994 Volume 01 : Number 101
Heretic?
DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
Re: DESCENT
Re: DESCENT
Descent?
Re: Rise of the Triad
Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
Heretic
Re: Descent? / Heretic
Re: Descent? / Heretic
Re: Re: Descent? / Heretic
Re: Descent? / Heretic
Re: Descent? / Heretic
Re: heretic self-destruct
Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
Re: DESCENT
Re: Rise of the Triad
Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hulio494@aol.com
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 01:51:02 -0500
Subject: Heretic?
What is this "Heretic" and where can I get a working copy of it? I assume it
is the newest release of some sort of game like Doom.
Thanks!
------------------------------
From: matt.tagliaferri@pcohio.com (Matt Tagliaferri)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 1994 21:32:00 -0500
Subject: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
To anyone who likes Doom in any way: Go IMMEDIATELY and download
DESCENT. One word of caution: if Doom gives you motion sickness, this
game will make you blow groceries in about 24 seconds.
VERY COOL GAME.
matt tag
author: DoomCAD
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
PC-Ohio PCBoard pcohio.com
The Best BBS in America Cleveland, OH
DATA: 216-381-3320 FAX: 216-291-2685
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: ffjjd@aurora.alaska.edu
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 03:17:47 +0000
Subject: Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
>Reply-To: doom-editing@NVG.UNIT.NO
>
>To anyone who likes Doom in any way: Go IMMEDIATELY and download
>DESCENT. One word of caution: if Doom gives you motion sickness, this
>game will make you blow groceries in about 24 seconds.
>
>VERY COOL GAME.
WARNING:
Much stuff about Descent follows. If this sort of thing upsets you then
stop now. I'm not trying to enrage anyone but the influence of DOOM on this
game is obvious and I believe DOOM level designers will be *very* intrigued
with the challenges and possibilities of designing levels for this new
game.
END WARNING.
Just spent the entire evening playing this game in a 4 player deathmatch.
Very cool indeed! It appears to be full 3d with 6 degrees of freedom and it
is fun.
When you go into map mode you see a full 3d rendering of the level and you
can spin and twirl it in any direction and see it from any angle. It can be
a little disorienting and difficult to manipulate at times but it's
impressive.
Designing levels for this game is going to be an order of magnitude more
complex than it is for DOOM. You'll have to truly consider the third
dimension.
The ship can fly at any angle in any direction and it can becomes very
disorienting at times. My personal opinion is that it's actually less
likely to make you blow chunks than DOOM. The reason being that it doesn't
seem to move as fast. Actually this was one of the features I was hoping to
find - a speed button but I couldn't locate one. I like that ability to
spin around real fast and I found myself wanting for it at times in
Descent. Also there are situations where you sort of get wedged into a
corner between the floor and wall and it can be awkward getting out of it.
Another strange thing I noticed was that it almost seemed more responsive
if you moved the mouse slowly rather than quickly. When moved quickly it
seemed to spin out.
All in all a very impressive new game and a very different experience than
DOOM. It's definitely made in the DOOM mold but it's a great twist. The guy
I was playing with had downloaded both Heretic and Descent at the same time
and we didn't play Heretic except for a few minutes. Actually it looked
pretty interesting but this guy was completely enamoured with Descent and
that's where we ended up spending all our time.
Excellent and nice interface and setup stuff. Instead of using the setup
program you do all of that from within the game. I ended up using my
standard Doom setup with additional modifications to handle the extra
directions that Descent allows for. You can fly straight up (like a
helicopter lifting off) and straight down, as well as doing barrel rolls,
tilt up and down as well as all the standard DOOM directions. Of course I
used the keyboard/mouse combo and kicked the living shit out of everybody
else that was playing but that's another story.
My brother spent the evening howling that he wisehd he had a joystick. He
really thought that a joystick would be ideal for this game. I don't know
if he's right but it is a flight model so perhaps it lends itself to a
flightstick. I thought the setup I used was decent (pun intended) but there
may be room for improvement.
It seemed to be slightly higher resolution than DOOM, I don't know what but
it looked a bit smother and I don't recall seeing as many large, fat pixels
as I see in DOOM. There were lots of textures and they used the colors
quite well. I didn't study the game much on a technical level as I was
mostly concentrating on playing it which was plenty challenging enough.
One real cool feature is that when you die all your items explode into
space around you and you yourself turn into a big health ball so that they
guy who killed you can load up on your goodies as well as charging up his
ship for better defenses and longer life. It's a drag when this happens to
you but it's great when you do it to someone else. Me and another guy
simultaneously killed each other once. I was completely loaded at the time
and he had a few things himself. By luck I happened to be the first one to
locate this wreckage later in the game and it looked like Santa Claus had
emptied his sack into the cargo hold. There was wonderful stuff floating
around everywhere.
And you want to talk about ambushes. There are some great ambush spots in
DOOM but just think if you could back yourself straight up against the
ceiling and look down and wait for someone to enter the room and just lay
into them from out of nowhere. This game allows for this completely.
Anywhere you want to go, you can go. Unbelievable possibilities.
I'm not sure what the limitations are on level size but some of the levels
were downright huge. Even though there were four of us playing there were
stretches where I didn't see anyone for some time.
I keep thinking what it would be like designing levels for this game and I
think it's going to be a real challenge. I think about the stuff I saw
tonight and it must have taken a lot of work to create some of those
levels. Full 3d and full free motions. I felt like I was in an M.C. Escher
painting at times. I think you guys are going to like it. And for those
people who want true 3d, this game looks like the answer. I was thinking
about that dxf format that's been discussed here recently and it may be
possible to do almost a straight conversion into Descent levels, or at
least it'll be much more realistic than it is for DOOM.
There were three or four different types of net play:
Anarchy, which was every man for himself (this was the way we played all night).
Team Anarchy - where I suppose you break into teams of two (or whatever the
limit is) and fight in teams against the other team.
Anarchy with enemies - this is probably both of the above options but with
enemies thrown in.
The enemies, in case you're wondering, are other robotic flying craft that
shoot at you just as you shoot at them.
At the end of each level you locate the exit and then you go back and blow
up this reactor core. When it's been weakened the game starts a countdown
and then you run for the exit that you already located. It will have opened
in the meantime and you can flee out of there. Anyone who doesn't find the
exit in time goes up in flames with the rest of the base. I don't think
this hurts you and you still go on to the next level but it's always nice
to escape before she blows.
You have about ten different weapons to choose from. In the shareware
version they don't allow several of the cooler sounding ones. I don't
recall the exact names but they're things like MegaBomb and Plasma cannon -
stuff like that. Also the full version is supposed to come with fourtry
levels and the shareware has around five I think. It's devices like this
that they are using to incite all of us to register and get the full
version. Given the design and fun factor of this game it's something that a
lot of people will be doing.
Go and check it out guys. It's a blast.
Clint
P.S. No, I don't work for Interplay. These are just my impressions after an
evening of playing. I personally wanted to play some more but the others
had had it.
------------------------------
From: cjp@wizard.seacosd.navy.mil (Chris Picone)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 7:06:36 PST
Subject: Re: DESCENT
You didn't mention where we could find a copy of DESCENT. I've searched
a bit today without finding any sign of it.
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 10:33:46 -0500
Subject: Re: DESCENT
> Date: 27-Dec-94 10:06:36 -0500
> From: cjp@wizard.seacosd.navy.mil (Chris Picone)
> To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Reply-to: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Subject: Re: DESCENT
> From: cjp@wizard.seacosd.navy.mil (Chris Picone)
> Reply-To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
>
> You didn't mention where we could find a copy of DESCENT. I've searched
> a bit today without finding any sign of it.
>
I am downloading it right now from ftp.cdrom.com/pub/games/incoming/
The files are (and I haven't seen them yet so, they might not be it)
DESCENT1.ZIP
and
DESCENT2.ZIP
I'm pretty sure they are it.
Have a good day,
john
__________________________________________________________
John Wakelin | johnw@datametrics.com
Datametrics Systems Corp. | Ph. 703 385 7700 x341
12150 East Monument Dr. Ste 300 | Fax 703 385 7711
Fairfax, VA. 22033 USA |
------------------------------
From: adu@freenet.vcu.edu (Andrew Du)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 10:43:58 -0500
Subject: Descent?
Where can I find Descent? There's a Descent directory on
wuarchive.wustl.edu under games, but it's empty.
Andrew
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 11:28:01 EST
Subject: Re: Rise of the Triad
matt.tagliaferri@pcohio.com (Matt Tagliaferri) ,in message <24.92775.5@pcohio.c
om>, wrote:
> Hadn't seen anything on a quickie ROTT review, so I thought I'd give my
> 2 cents....
> I have to say, if it weren't a cell based game, we'd have a worthy Doom
> competitor here. We actually still may have one: I found the game to be
> pretty addicting.
My impression was that it was Mario-brothers on 3D violence. The map is
neither architecturally nor visually interesting. None of the opponents I
encountered had dodgeable weapons. Dying when you fall off the map is what
I consider a game-killing misfeature.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 11:36:53 EST
Subject: Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
matt.tagliaferri@pcohio.com (Matt Tagliaferri) ,in message <24.92784.5@pcohio.c
om>, wrote:
> To anyone who likes Doom in any way: Go IMMEDIATELY and download
> DESCENT. One word of caution: if Doom gives you motion sickness, this
> game will make you blow groceries in about 24 seconds.
I dug Descent. My main complaint is that the mouse is so sensitive as to
be unusable. I also didn't have the patience to fight the phase-shifting
megabot in the Mercury core. Imagine fighting a revenant as tough as the
robodemon in the phone-booth of E3M9. The entire run from respawn to the
core got very boring very fast and I quit playing after I lost all 10 extra
lives (I was playing on wuss level).
The graphics are fairly impresive, but it still lacks the architectural
beauty achievable with DOOM. What do you expect from a mine-shaft though :)
As someone else said, if you get lost on the DOOM map, you will be
completely SOL on the Descent map. It's totally 3D. On the later levels
(larger levels) It can become almost completely impossible to use the map
to find a route due to the preponderance of lines. It also sucks that you
can't translate the map.
> VERY COOL GAME.
Not bad. It captivated my attention for a few nights.
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 11:45:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
> To anyone who likes Doom in any way: Go IMMEDIATELY and download
> DESCENT. One word of caution: if Doom gives you motion sickness, this
> game will make you blow groceries in about 24 seconds.
The question in my mind (which may be a pointless question, maybe I
just haven't seen it in the game, but...): Can sectors be nested in each
other in Descent? Actually, from looking, they might not even have
sectors. I should ask: can there be a free-floating chunk of rock inside
a large open room? Such as a solid cube inside a large hollow sphere?
I've also noticed that the entire level seems to be stationary, no moving
pieces at all. Hmmm.
Excellent architecture though! 6 degrees of freedom would rock for an
ambitious designer... :)
Greg
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 11:48:22 EST
Subject: Heretic
I have placed a copy of Heretic on ftp.cis.ufl.edu in
/pub/staff/thoth/doom/contrib/
------------------------------
From: pnr@po.cwru.edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 12:09:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Descent? / Heretic
I dug up Descent under wuarchive.wustl.edu /pub/msdos_uploads/descent
Heretic is also there, but it's one big file.
Anyone know of any split versions? (Less than 2Meg.)
Thanks.
- --
By hearing such music, seemingly so much noise, !
when I actually came upon noise in reality, ! Peter Risse
I found that I had gone up over it. ! pnr@po.cwru.ed
-- William Carlos Williams on John Cage !
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 12:45:37 EST
Subject: Re: Descent? / Heretic
pnr@po.cwru.edu (Peter N. Risser) ,in message <199412271709.MAA18803@slc8.INS.C
WRU.Edu>, wrote:
>
>
> I dug up Descent under wuarchive.wustl.edu /pub/msdos_uploads/descent
>
> Heretic is also there, but it's one big file.
> Anyone know of any split versions? (Less than 2Meg.)
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 thoth root 17303 Dec 24 00:23 deice.exe*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 thoth root 445 Dec 24 00:17 file_id.diz*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 thoth root 1439232 Dec 24 00:24 htic_v10.1*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 thoth root 1420386 Dec 24 00:25 htic_v10.2*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 thoth root 268 Dec 24 00:23 htic_v10.dat*
- -rwxr-xr-x 1 thoth root 184 Dec 24 00:28 install.bat*
If you have a UNIX system, you can unzip it into disk-sized packages.
(there are a bunch of files. All but the htic_v10.2 fit on the first disk.)
Anyone for creating a htic-editing?, and a doomlike-editing which contains
the merged membership from doom and htic?
------------------------------
From: adu@freenet.vcu.edu (Andrew Du)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 13:48:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: Descent? / Heretic
Consider trying Waded 1.71, found on ftp.cdrom.com. It's the
best, or actually only, Heretic editor that I know of...
Expect to see H2.WAD on ftp.cdrom.com soon, my first Heretic
wad..
------------------------------
From: djr@infinet.com (Dan J. Rockwell)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 13:48:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Descent? / Heretic
> Anyone for creating a htic-editing?, and a doomlike-editing which contains
> the merged membership from doom and htic?
In regards to heretic editing, I've managed to read the heretic wad file,
but not actually make a stand alone hereitc wad of my own creation. Has
anyone done this yet. Seems like all the editors can read the hereitc.wad
file, and understand it, but are we allowed to produce stand alone wads yet,
I'm sure Id is posing the same design limitations to Heretic as they posed
on Doom. You must have the full registered version that is.
If anyone has built any stand alone wads, what are you using to do so?
Hats off to the level designers of Heretic, I thought they did a very good
job at making the levels very attractive and playable. I love the round
rooms and staircases in the later levels. The Effects of the lava pit are
great on the last level. Overall I think heretic will be blast to edit, and
adds a new dimension to the doom experience. It's the graphical mud. But I
did feel this shareware release was too easy. The speed is incredible, and
looking up and down is nice, as long as theres a reason for it. Flying?
Well ok its kinda neat...
Dan
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 15:42:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Descent? / Heretic
> In regards to heretic editing, I've managed to read the heretic wad file,
> but not actually make a stand alone hereitc wad of my own creation. Has
> anyone done this yet. Seems like all the editors can read the hereitc.wad
> file, and understand it, but are we allowed to produce stand alone wads yet,
> I'm sure Id is posing the same design limitations to Heretic as they posed
> on Doom. You must have the full registered version that is.
This poses an interesting problem. I've seen several map editors that
are "Heretic compatible", but why are they being released to work with
the *shareware* version of Heretic? If none have been (they require the
registered Heretic), then my mistake, but AFAIK the registered Heretic
hasn't even come out yet and we shouldn't be seeing editors yet.
Well?
Greg
------------------------------
From: Matt Ayres <ayres@cdrom.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 15:12:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: heretic self-destruct
On Mon, 26 Dec 1994, Matt Tagliaferri wrote:
> DO> -Matt A.
> DO> author: WADED, just happen to work with Doom and Heretic :)
>
> DoomCAD worked w/ Heretic also. I've since decided to integrate
> Heretic editing into DoomCAD directly, allowing the ability to switch
> between Doom 1, 2 and Heretic.
That's what I've done also. WADED v1.71 (latest available beta) uses
WADED.T to define THINGS. It has an almost complete list of THINGS
for Heretic, and of course is editable by the end-user.
> This brings about a new set of possible features. Such as: >
> Highlight THINGS on a map with an invalid Thing ID for the current mode.
> Same with Textures.
>
> Any other suggestions here?
Those two, and LINEDEFS and SECTORS specials. Unless they're the same?
I haven't fully looked into that. Anyone know?
-Matt A.
------------------------------
From: Matt Ayres <ayres@cdrom.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 15:25:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
On Mon, 26 Dec 1994, Matt Tagliaferri wrote:
> To anyone who likes Doom in any way: Go IMMEDIATELY and download
> DESCENT. One word of caution: if Doom gives you motion sickness, this
> game will make you blow groceries in about 24 seconds.
>
> VERY COOL GAME.
Just to add a few notes about this game... it allow up to 8 people to
play at once on a network. People can join in and leave the game at any
time. It runs as fast as DOOM, possibly a little bitty slower... yet if
you consider how much more the engine can do (walls at any angle... look
any angle, blahblah). I can really only give this game two words, and
excuse the language: FUCKING AWESOME.
Uhm, anyhow, on topic (a little), has anyone heard anything about map
editing Descent? Does it allow external patch files? Does Interplay
want people to edit it? Has anyone figured anything about the .PIG and
.HOG files? I hope everyone realizes an editor for Descent would be in
3D wire-frame :) I'm going to start working on one, at least a 3D
wire-frame editor (this should prove interesting, eh?).. and hopefully
find the specs for Descent (or take the time to figure them out myself,
ugh) to integrate that in with my editor. That is, unless I hear
Interplay has an editor for DOS already...
-Matt A.
------------------------------
From: <jordanf@server.globalone.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 18:26:09 -30000
Subject: Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
> To anyone who likes Doom in any way: Go IMMEDIATELY and download
> DESCENT. One word of caution: if Doom gives you motion sickness, this
> game will make you blow groceries in about 24 seconds.
>
> VERY COOL GAME.
>
Definitely agreed. Modem play is flawless as well. Technologically,
this game is better than DOOM. What we need is a level editor for this
game to make some seriously great deathmatch "wads".
------------------------------
From: Matt Ayres <ayres@cdrom.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 15:29:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: DESCENT
On Tue, 27 Dec 1994, Chris Picone wrote:
> You didn't mention where we could find a copy of DESCENT. I've searched
> a bit today without finding any sign of it.
ftp.cdrom.com/pub/games/incoming/descent1.zip
ftp.cdrom.com/pub/games/incoming/descent2.zip
-Matt A.
------------------------------
From: <jordanf@server.globalone.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 18:32:00 -30000
Subject: Re: Rise of the Triad
> matt.tagliaferri@pcohio.com (Matt Tagliaferri) ,in message <24.92775.5@pcohio.c
> om>, wrote:
>
> > Hadn't seen anything on a quickie ROTT review, so I thought I'd give my
> > 2 cents....
>
> > I have to say, if it weren't a cell based game, we'd have a worthy Doom
> > competitor here. We actually still may have one: I found the game to be
> > pretty addicting.
>
> My impression was that it was Mario-brothers on 3D violence. The map is
> neither architecturally nor visually interesting. None of the opponents I
> encountered had dodgeable weapons. Dying when you fall off the map is what
> I consider a game-killing misfeature.
>
ROTT is a joke... it's an enhanced Wolfenstein 3D... leave it to Apogee
to go backwards. Notice in ROTT that all walls are at 90 degree angles
to one another. Apogee, wake up -- that's a 1990 engine!
------------------------------
From: Hulio494@aol.com
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 19:25:17 -0500
Subject: Re: DESCENT: Anyone seen this?
Where is it!?
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #101
**********************************
