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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 128
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #128
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Thursday, 19 January 1995 Volume 01 : Number 128
Re: New DEU feature suggestions
Really cool hacking info
Re: Really cool hacking info
Re: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
Re: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
Re: Really cool hacking info
Re: New DEU feature suggestions
Re: Really cool hacking info
Re: New DEU feature suggestions
Re: New DEU feature suggestions
[none]
Re: New DEU feature suggestions
[none]
[none]
Re: New DEU feature suggestions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Anthony Spataro <ads@netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 19:55:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: New DEU feature suggestions
Good idea. As for resource names...DEHACKED would work. DEHPATCH or
EXEPATCH might be good too.
/ads@netcom.com
[LC/Cardy/Kilwren/Cardenyl
\PASO/Paradigm/Storm
---------------------------->
Bureaucrat, n.:
A person who cuts red tape sideways.
-- J. McCabe
On Wed, 18 Jan 1995, Robert Fenske Jr wrote:
> How 'bout having support importing/exporting of the .DEH files for
> DEHACKED? That way, the WAD file would have the level data and any desired
> executable changes all in one file. The resource would have an agreed-upon
> name (like DEHACKED) and simply be the binary data that is found in a .DEH
> file. Then if DEHACKED where modified to be able to read the DEHACKED resource
> from a WAD file, you would never need a separate .DEH file for your WAD. (You
> would still need a .DEH file for restoring the executable back to normal.)
------------------------------
From: Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 00:42:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Really cool hacking info
I've been playing with my beta version of the Heretic hack editor.
There are some REALLY nifty things in there that could make some VERY
interesting patches.
For example: Have you noticed that the large Firemace PL2 balls can
*go through teleporters*? Hmmm. It just so happens that I've isolated
that particulare bit, and I've made arrow bolts, eggs from the Morph
Ovum, etc. go through teleporters. Veeeerrrryyy interesting. (Credit to
my roommate for noticing this during deathmatch today... :)
Other cool thing: firing the Phoenix Rod PL1 has a push-back effect,
much like many people wanted in Doom for the rocket launcher. Tada!
Instant propulsion system for airborn (no gravity) combat. Come to think
of it, maybe the "flying" keys will work if you have No Gravity set... or
more likely, maybe there is just an internal bit that's set for the
player when he's flying that can be changed with HHE for permanent
flying. Hmmm!
Application: Imagine changing all the Dragon Claw spikes from a PL2
Dragon Claw into Morph eggs... <huge evil grin> The Chicken-o-matic!
Or instead of eggs, into Pheonix shots or PL2 Firemace balls. Deadly!
Or: Turn the gas-bag producers into Morph egg splitters, or PL2 Mace
balls... put them onto a windy sector, and you have a cross-wind laden
with either eggs or death-balls.
Anyone else feeling a bit inspired here? :)
Greg
------------------------------
From: rrward@netcom.com (Richard Ward)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 23:35:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Really cool hacking info
Greg (Tree) said:
[snip]
>
> Application: Imagine changing all the Dragon Claw spikes from a PL2
> Dragon Claw into Morph eggs... <huge evil grin> The Chicken-o-matic!
[snip]
Sounds like you've invented the KFC-9000. :)
Richard
------------------------------
From: zaph@torps.apana.org.au (Kevin Burfitt)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 15:38:56 +1100
Subject: Re: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
In <ab42fc350a02100445d4@[148.88.12.82]> S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner) writes:
>This message is being posted at the request of the list caretaker:
>The purpose of this list is to discuss *advanced* DOOM editing techniques.
>In order to keep it that way, if you have a question but don't know whether
>it's advanced or not, mail it in the first instance to:
> Steve Benner : S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
Steve,
How about posting a message on how to UNSUBSCRIBE from the list once
every now and then.. ???
I want out, but dont want to annoy people with the unsubscribe message,
and can't remember how to unsub. for the life of me!
Zaph
- --
- -------------------- CTHUGHA - An Oscilliscope on Acid ----------------------
Kevin 'Zaph' Burfitt zaph@torps.apana.org.au
Torps Productions Melbourne, Australia BBS +61-3-813-3688 V.FC
fileserv@torps.apana.org.au JOIN CTHUGHA for discussion/programming
fileserv@torps.apana.org.au JOIN CTHUGHA-ANNOUNCE new version announcements
World Wide Web : http://a32.cc.umist.ac.uk/cthugha/cthugha.htm
FTP: ftp.earthlink.net /pub/software/PC/CTHUGHA
- ------------ Torps Productions - Coding the future before sunrise -----------
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 12:47:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Weekly reminder: beginners' questions
>In <ab42fc350a02100445d4@[148.88.12.82]> S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve
>Benner) writes:
>>This message is being posted at the request of the list caretaker:
>
>>The purpose of this list is to discuss *advanced* DOOM editing techniques.
>>In order to keep it that way, if you have a question but don't know whether
>>it's advanced or not, mail it in the first instance to:
>
>> Steve Benner : S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk
>
>Steve,
>
>How about posting a message on how to UNSUBSCRIBE from the list once
>every now and then.. ???
>
>I want out, but dont want to annoy people with the unsubscribe message,
>and can't remember how to unsub. for the life of me!
>
>Zaph
>
>--
>-------------------- CTHUGHA - An Oscilliscope on Acid ----------------------
> Kevin 'Zaph' Burfitt zaph@torps.apana.org.au
> Torps Productions Melbourne, Australia BBS +61-3-813-3688 V.FC
>fileserv@torps.apana.org.au JOIN CTHUGHA for discussion/programming
>fileserv@torps.apana.org.au JOIN CTHUGHA-ANNOUNCE new version announcements
>World Wide Web : http://a32.cc.umist.ac.uk/cthugha/cthugha.htm
>FTP: ftp.earthlink.net /pub/software/PC/CTHUGHA
>------------ Torps Productions - Coding the future before sunrise -----------
Why not just send a query direct to me like every one else does? If I
posted up all of the standard answers to people who couldn't be bothered to
read and save the info they received when they subscribed, the list would
be swamped.
The only subscriber to the doom editing list at your site is:
torp_doom_edit@torps.apana.org.au
If that is you, you should send a message to majordomo@nvg.unit.no which
contains the line
unsubscribe doom-editing torp_doom_edit@torps.apana.org.au
If, on the other hand, this is a list maintained at your site to reduce the
number of these messages arriving on the net, you should contact the owner
of the list at your site to get yourself removed. You should have received
unsubscription details at the time you subscribed. Bollock your list
administrator if you didn't.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND admin requests to the list: the list subscribers will
NOT be able to help.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 19 Jan 1995 13:27:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Really cool hacking info
> Sounds like you've invented the KFC-9000. :)
You should be flamed and put to death for that pun!
Keep up the good work!
:)
- -j
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Pedir a tu corazon que me quiere un poco
No quedo vivir sin ti tu me tiene loco
Ay me estoy muriendo si no viene pronto
Pedir a tu corazon
-Reyes/Baliardo
Jeremy D. A. Holland
jdh15@po.cwru.edu
Sherman House #316
754-1343
------------------------------
From: Madis Remmik <h2madis@siil.edu.ee>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 17:24:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Re: New DEU feature suggestions
Sorry for my rather stupid suggestions...
1)SPEED. Does DEU relly have to refresh after any action taken?Even when dele-
ting objects?.It's very difficult to make levels with over a few hundred line-
defs on a 486SX.The scrolling is very poor also,because of the full redraw and
grid drawing while doing it.One should see WADED for a proper example.
2)Removing sidedefs.Maybe I'm a fool or whatsoever,but I don't know how to turn
a 2S linedefs with sidedef(s) to a normal ones.I can remove the 2S bit,but the
sidedefs stay as they are.During concistency check,it announces that there are
2 sidedefs on an one-sided linedef and offers itself only to set the 2S bit,
not to remove those s-defs.I hate to delete my already placed lines.
3)Vertexes should be visible and pointable on linedef/sidedef mode.
Madis Remmik (h2madis@siil.edu.ee)
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:37:31 EST
Subject: Re: Really cool hacking info
Greg Lewis <gregl@umich.edu> ,in message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950119003100.27858A-100
000@defender.rs.itd.umich.edu>, wrote:
> Anyone else feeling a bit inspired here? :)
A volcano spitting eggs or the hell-staff's TOP (tome of power) rain.
The textures do seem "inferior". Artistically they're beautiful, but there's
to much high-frequency in them and at long range they just don't hold up as
well as STARTAN3.
I'm going to post my heretic.desc file (a list of codes derived from Romero's
list and other contributions) for your entertainment as soon as I track down an
anomaly in the WAD file.
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 10:42:29 CST
Subject: Re: New DEU feature suggestions
> 1)SPEED. Does DEU relly have to refresh after any action taken? Even when
> deleting objects?. It's very difficult to make levels with over a few
> hundred linedefs on a 486SX. The scrolling is very poor also, because of
> the full redraw and grid drawing while doing it. One should see WADED for
> a proper example.
Actually, this was at the top of my list of things to do a while ago... Or at
least at the top of my list wish. I didn't know exactly how to go about it,
but did give the suggestion to Raphael. The only thing I could think of was
keeping a bitmap (well, not quite a bitmap, but something similar) in memory.
That, of course, takes a lot of memory. Plus each time you zoom in or out it
would need to recompute the "bitmap"... Slow. What else can we do?
Actually... I think there are bios routines for scroll screen up/down. We
might be able to use those and only redraw sections...
Only two problems with that.
#1: Compatability
It wouldn't run under XFree86, Iris, Solaris (well not much runs on Solaris
;) Sun OS, Windoze, or anything else DEU is currently ported to.
#2: Time
We're much more concerned (or at least I am. I'm.not.sure.what.Ra-pha-el.is.
up.to.right.now. *AHEM*) with getting the project itself out. Speed
improvements later.
I also highly recommend the DJGPP compiled version. It's literally twice as
fast. Only drawbacks: can't use it in windoze (aw shucks... ;) or OS/2.
You also get a lot more memory.
> 2)Removing sidedefs. Maybe I'm a fool or whatsoever, but I don't know how
> to turn a 2S linedefs with sidedef(s) to a normal ones. I can remove the
> 2S bit,but the sidedefs stay as they are.During concistency check, it
> announces that there are 2 sidedefs on an one-sided linedef and offers
> itself only to set the 2S bit, not to remove those s-defs.I hate to delete
> my already placed lines.
DEU 5.3 has a large "Delete First Sidedef" button (which conveniently changes
to "Insert First Sidedef" if a sidedef isn't there). For DEU 5.21, edit the
linedef and change the reference of the first sidedef to -1. Lets just say
that the counter-intuitiveness of this inspired me to make this change.
> 3)Vertexes should be visible and pointable on linedef/sidedef mode.
I've long been in favor of this.
One problem with that. Actually, they're impediments. :)
#1: Time
Doing this would require a large restructuring of the of the "what linedef
is the cursor over" routine. Then you have other problems like, "what if
the user selects two vertices and three linedefs? What do you edit? Should
this even be allowed? Does insert automatically default to inserting only
a vertex, and to insert linedefs you must select vertices? (Hey, if you can
answer all of these questions, I'm happy to work on it, but no promises for
DEU 5.3. Sorry... Even I don't know what to expect about it...)
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: bmorris@islandnet.com (Ben Morris)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 11:03 PST
Subject: Re: New DEU feature suggestions
>
> Sorry for my rather stupid suggestions...
>
> 1)SPEED. Does DEU relly have to refresh after any action taken?Even when dele-
> ting objects?.It's very difficult to make levels with over a few hundred line-
> defs on a 486SX.The scrolling is very poor also,because of the full redraw and
> grid drawing while doing it.One should see WADED for a proper example.
I would suggest also looking at the new version of DCK, 2.0. For example:
In DEU, when you mark several linedefs (or vertices or sectors) and drag
them, it has to redraw the entire map *every time you move the mouse*.
DCK does not do this - instead it creates a "shadow" of the items that is
dragged around, and the screen is only updated when you drop the items.
> 2)Removing sidedefs.Maybe I'm a fool or whatsoever,but I don't know how to turn
> a 2S linedefs with sidedef(s) to a normal ones.I can remove the 2S bit,but the
> sidedefs stay as they are.During concistency check,it announces that there are
> 2 sidedefs on an one-sided linedef and offers itself only to set the 2S bit,
> not to remove those s-defs.I hate to delete my already placed lines.
To do this with DEU, set the linedef's second sidedef reference to -1.
With DCK, click on the "Delete" button. It will also change the 2S and
Impassable bits for you - automatically.
> 3)Vertexes should be visible and pointable on linedef/sidedef mode.
Again, see DCK :)
The formal release announcement is a couple days pending.
- ---------------------------------------------- * --------------------
the felix of your truth will always break it / Ben Morris
and the iris of your eye always shake it / ..your typical CN
- -- "Iris" / Live -------------------------- / -----------------------
revel in your perception * bmorris@islandnet.com
------------------------------
From: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Date: Thu Jan 19 19:39:39 GMT 1995
Subject: [none]
>From doom-editing Thu Jan 19 10:42:29 CST 1995 remote from nvg.unit.no
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Subject: Re: New DEU feature suggestions
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 10:42:29 CST
In-Reply-To: <9501191724.aa11231@siil.edu.ee>; from "Madis Remmik" at Jan 19, 95 5:24 pm
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> 1)SPEED. Does DEU relly have to refresh after any action taken? Even when
> deleting objects?. It's very difficult to make levels with over a few
> hundred linedefs on a 486SX. The scrolling is very poor also, because of
> the full redraw and grid drawing while doing it. One should see WADED for
> a proper example.
Actually, this was at the top of my list of things to do a while ago... Or at
least at the top of my list wish. I didn't know exactly how to go about it,
but did give the suggestion to Raphael. The only thing I could think of was
keeping a bitmap (well, not quite a bitmap, but something similar) in memory.
That, of course, takes a lot of memory. Plus each time you zoom in or out it
would need to recompute the "bitmap"... Slow. What else can we do?
Actually... I think there are bios routines for scroll screen up/down. We
might be able to use those and only redraw sections...
Only two problems with that.
#1: Compatability
It wouldn't run under XFree86, Iris, Solaris (well not much runs on Solaris
;) Sun OS, Windoze, or anything else DEU is currently ported to.
#2: Time
We're much more concerned (or at least I am. I'm.not.sure.what.Ra-pha-el.is.
up.to.right.now. *AHEM*) with getting the project itself out. Speed
improvements later.
I also highly recommend the DJGPP compiled version. It's literally twice as
fast. Only drawbacks: can't use it in windoze (aw shucks... ;) or OS/2.
You also get a lot more memory.
> 2)Removing sidedefs. Maybe I'm a fool or whatsoever, but I don't know how
> to turn a 2S linedefs with sidedef(s) to a normal ones. I can remove the
> 2S bit,but the sidedefs stay as they are.During concistency check, it
> announces that there are 2 sidedefs on an one-sided linedef and offers
> itself only to set the 2S bit, not to remove those s-defs.I hate to delete
> my already placed lines.
DEU 5.3 has a large "Delete First Sidedef" button (which conveniently changes
to "Insert First Sidedef" if a sidedef isn't there). For DEU 5.21, edit the
linedef and change the reference of the first sidedef to -1. Lets just say
that the counter-intuitiveness of this inspired me to make this change.
> 3)Vertexes should be visible and pointable on linedef/sidedef mode.
I've long been in favor of this.
One problem with that. Actually, they're impediments. :)
#1: Time
Doing this would require a large restructuring of the of the "what linedef
is the cursor over" routine. Then you have other problems like, "what if
the user selects two vertices and three linedefs? What do you edit? Should
this even be allowed? Does insert automatically default to inserting only
a vertex, and to insert linedefs you must select vertices? (Hey, if you can
answer all of these questions, I'm happy to work on it, but no promises for
DEU 5.3. Sorry... Even I don't know what to expect about it...)
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: <jdh15@po.cwru.edu>
Date: 19 Jan 1995 20:04:54 GMT
Subject: Re: New DEU feature suggestions
> > 3)Vertexes should be visible and pointable on linedef/sidedef mode.
>
> I've long been in favor of this.
> One problem with that. Actually, they're impediments. :)
> #1: Time
> Doing this would require a large restructuring of the of the "what linedef
> is the cursor over" routine. Then you have other problems like, "what if
> the user selects two vertices and three linedefs?
Oh. I though he meant the vertices are visible but not editable.
It would be nice, esp. if you have a line like
(v1)-----------------(v2)------------------(v3)
with different textures or line type or flags or something, to see
exactly where one starts and the other ends. Maybe a dual
vertex/linedef mode could be added later, but for now I think just
the vertices being visible in linedef mode would be a significant
improvement.
* * * * *
Another thing: Occasionaly I get DEU to crash, losing all my data.
It's not like my computer locks, DEU just dumps me to a C:\> prompt
with an error message and all my work down the toilet. One place
this happens a lot is if I try to build nodes when I have
insufficient memory. You should REALLY make it so that if it runs
out of memory it writes the raw data to a file and gives you a
message:
COULD NOT BUILD NODES; OUT OF MEMORY.
FILE SAVED IN TEMP0001.WAD
So you could later you could load temp0001.wad and retry the node
build.
- -j
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* *
* Out in the distance, on the horizon, it appeared to me like a vision *
* before my unbelieving eyes. *
* We parked the car and walked with awe-filled reverance toward that *
* glorious, huge, majestic sphere. *
* I was just so overwhelmed by its sheer immensity *
* I had to pop myself a beer. *
* *
* Jeremy Holland <> jdh15@po.cwru.edu <> 7x1343 <> Sherman #316 *
* *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
------------------------------
From: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Date: Thu Jan 19 19:50:16 GMT 1995
Subject: [none]
>From doom-editing Thu Jan 19 17:24:46 +0200 1995 remote from nvg.unit.no
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Subject: Re: New DEU feature suggestions
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 17:24:46 +0200 (EET)
From: Madis Remmik <h2madis@siil.edu.ee>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9501181902.A14640-0100000@netcom13> from "Anthony Spataro" at Jan 18, 95 07:55:52 pm
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Sorry for my rather stupid suggestions...
1)SPEED. Does DEU relly have to refresh after any action taken?Even when dele-
ting objects?.It's very difficult to make levels with over a few hundred line-
defs on a 486SX.The scrolling is very poor also,because of the full redraw and
grid drawing while doing it.One should see WADED for a proper example.
2)Removing sidedefs.Maybe I'm a fool or whatsoever,but I don't know how to turn
a 2S linedefs with sidedef(s) to a normal ones.I can remove the 2S bit,but the
sidedefs stay as they are.During concistency check,it announces that there are
2 sidedefs on an one-sided linedef and offers itself only to set the 2S bit,
not to remove those s-defs.I hate to delete my already placed lines.
3)Vertexes should be visible and pointable on linedef/sidedef mode.
Madis Remmik (h2madis@siil.edu.ee)
------------------------------
From: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Date: Thu Jan 19 20:02:22 GMT 1995
Subject: [none]
>From doom-editing Thu Jan 19 11:03 PST 1995 remote from nvg.unit.no
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Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 11:03 PST
From: bmorris@islandnet.com (Ben Morris)
To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
Subject: Re: New DEU feature suggestions
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>
> Sorry for my rather stupid suggestions...
>
> 1)SPEED. Does DEU relly have to refresh after any action taken?Even when dele-
> ting objects?.It's very difficult to make levels with over a few hundred line-
> defs on a 486SX.The scrolling is very poor also,because of the full redraw and
> grid drawing while doing it.One should see WADED for a proper example.
I would suggest also looking at the new version of DCK, 2.0. For example:
In DEU, when you mark several linedefs (or vertices or sectors) and drag
them, it has to redraw the entire map *every time you move the mouse*.
DCK does not do this - instead it creates a "shadow" of the items that is
dragged around, and the screen is only updated when you drop the items.
> 2)Removing sidedefs.Maybe I'm a fool or whatsoever,but I don't know how to turn
> a 2S linedefs with sidedef(s) to a normal ones.I can remove the 2S bit,but the
> sidedefs stay as they are.During concistency check,it announces that there are
> 2 sidedefs on an one-sided linedef and offers itself only to set the 2S bit,
> not to remove those s-defs.I hate to delete my already placed lines.
To do this with DEU, set the linedef's second sidedef reference to -1.
With DCK, click on the "Delete" button. It will also change the 2S and
Impassable bits for you - automatically.
> 3)Vertexes should be visible and pointable on linedef/sidedef mode.
Again, see DCK :)
The formal release announcement is a couple days pending.
- ---------------------------------------------- * --------------------
the felix of your truth will always break it / Ben Morris
and the iris of your eye always shake it / ..your typical CN
- -- "Iris" / Live -------------------------- / -----------------------
revel in your perception * bmorris@islandnet.com
------------------------------
From: Stephen Gates <skg8310@email.unc.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 15:25:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: New DEU feature suggestions
> 2)Removing sidedefs.Maybe I'm a fool or whatsoever,but I don't know how to turn
> a 2S linedefs with sidedef(s) to a normal ones.I can remove the 2S bit,but the
> sidedefs stay as they are.During concistency check,it announces that there are
> 2 sidedefs on an one-sided linedef and offers itself only to set the 2S bit,
> not to remove those s-defs.I hate to delete my already placed lines.
Simply edit the sidedef, delete the name, and enter or put in a "-" and
it'll be nothing again.
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End of doom-editing-digest V1 #128
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