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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 168
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #168
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Sunday, 19 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 168
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Little editor problem...
DOOM II Standalone Nodebuilder?
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea, kinda
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
GUS in Deathmatch
Re: DEU 5.3 Beta
Re: WAD Tricks
Re: id-ea
Re: DOOM II Standalone Nodebuilder?
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
Re: id-ea
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jefross@ix.netcom.com (Jeff Ross)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 17:38:15 -0800
Subject: Re: id-ea
You wrote:
>
>>I was thinking back to how much fun I had playing the orginal DOOM
maps,
>>when I though -- why doesn't id make more levels? Sure, they've had
DOOM II
>>and Heretic, but they've not yet released a simple level pack.
Something to
>>continue the saga left off in DOOM I. I believe the levels they
designed for
>>DOOM I were the best deathmatch levels ever made: they all had such
meaning;
>>bringing back memories of the 1-1 to 3-9 25 hour personal assault.
Playing
>>level 2-2 in a deathmatch setting was so cool: it was like revisiting
an old
>>adventure with a friend. Oh well, that's my philosophical opinion.
>>
>>Please, if you have any flames or useless comments to air, air them to
me
>>personally and NOT to the list. This is just a suggestion: I am not
>>responsible for my own dire stupidity and ignorance. TTUL
>>
>>**********************************************************************
*****
>>enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca>
> I like this idea...basically a new IWAD for Doom 1/2. The only
problem is
>the compatibilty issue: We already have Doom, Doom 2, and Heretic.
These all
>have different textures, and need converting. This would cause more
confusion.
>Still, a nice idea. id sure made some neat levels. The only other
problem is
>the time issue. id is hard at work on Quake, and they unfortunately
have no time
>for doing stuff for Doom much anymore. Maybe some people should get
together and
>make a new IWAD type deal: 27 new levels, all new sprites, all new
textures.
>Now that would be cool!
> -- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
>
>
ID and GT Interactive are making this patch for sure, due out some time
in March or April. I don't know how many extra levels, but it's for
Doom2.
------------------------------
From: at455@freenet.carleton.ca (Colin Pascal)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 21:26:27 -0500
Subject: Re: id-ea
>Thanks for all the replies to my message. Would anyone like to start a 1-27
>rehash?
Yeah, like "The best of the doom-editing mailing list" WAD. That would
probably be amazing, I think.
Anyone with any more suggestions?
- --
Anarchy is a dream of willful order. It is a dream which will only be
attained when mankind, too, is perfect.
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@remus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 21:43:25 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
>
> > I like this idea...basically a new IWAD for Doom 1/2. The only problem is
> >the compatibilty issue: We already have Doom, Doom 2, and Heretic. These all
> >have different textures, and need converting. This would cause more confusion.
> >Still, a nice idea. id sure made some neat levels. The only other problem is
> >the time issue. id is hard at work on Quake, and they unfortunately have no
> time
> >for doing stuff for Doom much anymore. Maybe some people should get
> together and
> >make a new IWAD type deal: 27 new levels, all new sprites, all new textures.
> >Now that would be cool!
>
> Thanks for all the replies to my message. Would anyone like to start a 1-27
> rehash?
>
> ***************************************************************************
> enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca>
> ***************************************************************************
>
>
I would be interested in helping with such a project. I think it would be
cool to make versions of the IWAD for Doom, Doom2, and Heretic also.
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: at455@freenet.carleton.ca (Colin Pascal)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 22:19:46 -0500
Subject: Little editor problem...
Here are my problems:
- - I was making a map in DoomEd, but I can't save it in playable mode
because it says one of my sectors isn't complete (But I checked ALL of
them, and they are.), and when I just reguraly save it, DCK can't load it.
(It usualyl can, and it magically solves all my problems.) What would
anyone suggest I do?
- - In DCK, I can't get it to fine mode. I can only place vertexes and
things on the vertexes of the grid, and it's really annoying. Using the
"'" key, as the key help says...
Colin.
- --
The day it happened was like any other, I suppose. I was on my way to
work when it hit me, "The president of the United States is a lying
vicious bastard." And he had to die.
- The Kids In The Hall
------------------------------
From: genghis@ilces.ag.uiuc.edu (Scott Coleman)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 21:58:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: DOOM II Standalone Nodebuilder?
Can someone direct me to a decent standalone BSP node builder which
handles DOOM II WADs?
------------------------------
From: Peter Fleming <pfleming@eros.otago.ac.nz>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 17:34:55 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject: Re: id-ea
Hi You all,
I'd like to propose the idea of a Doom-editing list IWAD, ive a bunch
of levels that work best with human style enemies, based on the idea of a
small town with random(ish) insertions of enemies.
If a bunch of us got together and pooled our skills we could build a
CLASSIC!
32 new levels.
20 new enemies (make the beasts thinner and faster and smarter?)
all new graphics
a new strategic/tactical theme
Do i hear a seconder, im willing to take the work to edit this, and be
the group coordinator.
- -billy
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 00:01:23 -0500
Subject: Re: id-ea
> I meant that maybe some people could do a new IWAD. 27/32 levels would
allow
>for someone to do domething like Doom 1/2. At first you might be on a
>military base.
>Then you might be in a military prison. Then you might end up in some caves.
You
>know, three sets of related missions. The makers of the IWAD could draw out
>a lot of
>new textures and sprites to fit the theme. This is what I meant. I'd love to
>be part
>or something like this, but I can't draw for the life of me. I could do
>levels, but not much else :(. Still, this would probably be cool. One
>problem with it though is that
>someone could download shareware Doom, get this IWAD, and be all set to play
>Doom
>Registered levels. The EXEs are the same. The makers of this IWAD would have
>to use all
>new texture names, and put them in TEXTURE2 resource, or else this would
>occur. Still,
>would be a neat project.
I am working on set of 20 new levels for Doom2 right now. Including a new
bad guy (in the lines of the sargent and the chaingun dude) that carries a
plasma gun.
New graphics include caves, underwater caverns, and other VERY cool outside,
nature type levels. Some new thing editing will give the illusion of curved
walls in the caves and
other strange (usually impossible) objects.
I also Have 09 new musics for these wads, a bunch of new textures and of
course new sprites. Plus a executible that will make everything VERY easy to
use (easier than Aliens TC) Look for it very soon (next month or so) We
are just working out all the little bugs and also kicking each others butts
in DM. It's Looking VERY good so far.
Tom Mustaine (Clock Prardox) - (Paradox)
The wad will be called Ancient.WAD (Paper name --->not yet offical) But look
for it, I have put a LOT of work into it!
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 00:06:08 -0500
Subject: Re: id-ea
>Hi You all,
> I'd like to propose the idea of a Doom-editing list IWAD, ive a bunch 0
>of levels that work best with human style enemies, based on the idea of a
>small town with random(ish) insertions of enemies.
> If a bunch of us got together and pooled our skills we could build a
>CLASSIC!
> 32 new levels.
> 20 new enemies (make the beasts thinner and faster and smarter?)
> all new graphics
> a new strategic/tactical theme
>Do i hear a seconder, im willing to take the work to edit this, and be
>the group coordinator.
>-billy
I would be very interested in such a project. I am currently working on just
such a project. If you need some good levels or input please mail me.
Thanks
Tom (Clock Paradox)
------------------------------
From: Michael Biggs <mbiggs@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 16:21:11 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Re: id-ea, kinda
Hello peoples
just a wondering if anyone replied to my earlier post
about space hulk stuff for this new wad idea, I got a biff'd
and it showed the usuall start of the letter, but after some stupid
error or something the letter disappeard, so if anyone sent me anything
you might awanna try again,
sorry about this
- --
/~~~\|~|/~~~\/~~~\|~| |~~~|/~~\ "Order must underlie everything
| '/| | /~~~ /~~~| | | |_ \ \~ however disorderly it may appear"
| ,\| | \/~| \/~|| |_| |_ _\ \ Isaac Asimov
|___/|_|\_/||\_/|||____|__|\__/ mbiggs@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
From: Casey Robinson <ogiswise@rahul.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 22:57:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: id-ea
On Sat, 18 Feb 1995, ulasieben wrote:
> I meant that maybe some people could do a new IWAD. 27/32 levels would a
> allow for someone to do domething like Doom 1/2. At first you might be
> on a military base.
> Then you might be in a military prison. Then you might end up in some
> caves. You know, three sets of related missions. The makers of the IWAD could
> draw out a lot of
> new textures and sprites to fit the theme. This is what I meant. I'd love to
> be part
> or something like this, but I can't draw for the life of me. I could do
Yeah, thats my problem too.
> levels, but not much else :(. Still, this would probably be cool. One
> problem with it though is that
> someone could download shareware Doom, get this IWAD, and be all set to play
> Doom
Unless you made it for Doom II, since there was no shareware version.
> Registered levels. The EXEs are the same. The makers of this IWAD would have
> to use all
> new texture names, and put them in TEXTURE2 resource, or else this would
> occur. Still,
> would be a neat project.
> -- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
>
Another cool thing incase someone actualy does this, would be to change
the text between levels. It's realy trivial to do with DeHackEd. I am
interested in doing this, and would be willing to arange it if no one else
wants to. (not that I want to, I just wana see it happen. and be a part
of it.)
------------------------------
From: Ian Springer <ips@remus.rutgers.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 2:14:38 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
> Hi You all,
> I'd like to propose the idea of a Doom-editing list IWAD, ive a bunch
> of levels that work best with human style enemies, based on the idea of a
> small town with random(ish) insertions of enemies.
> If a bunch of us got together and pooled our skills we could build a
> CLASSIC!
> 32 new levels.
> 20 new enemies (make the beasts thinner and faster and smarter?)
> all new graphics
> a new strategic/tactical theme
> Do i hear a seconder, im willing to take the work to edit this, and be
> the group coordinator.
> -billy
>
I'm in!
- ------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
- ---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 01:40:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: id-ea
>>Hi You all,
>> I'd like to propose the idea of a Doom-editing list IWAD, ive a bunch 0
>>of levels that work best with human style enemies, based on the idea of a
>>small town with random(ish) insertions of enemies.
>> If a bunch of us got together and pooled our skills we could build a
>>CLASSIC!
>> 32 new levels.
>> 20 new enemies (make the beasts thinner and faster and smarter?)
>> all new graphics
>> a new strategic/tactical theme
>>Do i hear a seconder, im willing to take the work to edit this, and be
>>the group coordinator.
>>-billy
>
>I would be very interested in such a project. I am currently working on just
>such a project. If you need some good levels or input please mail me.
> Thanks
>
>Tom (Clock Paradox)
>
Yeah me too. I got a few levels you might be able to use. This is gonna be a
kick-ass project! Anyone else interested?
-- Evil Genius
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 04:13:08 -0500
Subject: Re: id-ea
On Sun, 19 Feb 1995 TWM2029@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> I would be very interested in such a project. I am currently working on
just
>> such a project. If you need some good levels or input please mail me.
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom (Clock Paradox)
>>
> Are your levels in a cohesive "theme"? have you added new gfx? >sounds?
Yes, they are in a cohesive theme (A very well though out idea I might add)
New Gfx/sounds/music/text/and Gameplay.....I hope this to be the on of the
best remakes of doom ever. This patch will change doom about 80%!!
Tom (Clock Paradox)
------------------------------
From: TWM2029@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 07:10:01 -0500
Subject: GUS in Deathmatch
Does anybody know how to get the Gravis Max card to load the music when
playing deathmatch? It just skips the GUS when I try to play dm! If there
isn't a way, that would be an excellet project for all you doom programming
gods!
Tom (Clock Paradox)
------------------------------
From: Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 12:34:53 GMT
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 Beta
Jason Hoffoss wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Feb 1995, Steve McCrea wrote:
>
> > David Damerell wrote:
> > >
> > > Again, this is a group select and edit.
> > >
> > You can't group select a line and a sector, can you?
>
> Sure, why not? I think DEU converted what you had marked over to the new
> editing mode, so that's only kinda half multi-mode marking.
>
As far as setting tags goes, though, in DEU you'd have to go to line mode,
mark the trigger line, then go to sector mode, and mark the (possibly
totally unconnected) sector(s). Not a big deal, but still.
> > heights change, lines change from 2s to Im, and so on. I must say the sector
> > heights change thing should be an option - otherwise it could apply the
> > wrong texture and it would take a playthrough to notice...
>
> Hmm, but wouldn't a wrong texture be better than no texture? No texture
> would definately be wrong. At least I think anyway. :)
>
I like to put the right texture down quickly. Knowing (by running the error
checker) that there is no texture there means that I haven't chosen a
texture yet.
>
> Two way grid sizing control then. Btw, in DMapEdit, if you are zoomed
> out enough that the grid lines are less than 4 pixils apart, it will only
> draw even other line, every fourth line, etc, whatever it takes to make
> sure they aren't closer than 4 pixils. Having to wait as it draws a
> solid grey mass that's supposed to be a grid is a real drag. Any other
> editors out there that don't do this may want to start.
>
I don't really like this feature. For my money, it would almost be better
if you weren't allowed to zoom out until you'd reduced the grid intensity.
That way you know what the grid means, at least. I don't like DMapEdit's
grid at all - the dotted lines confuse me too much.
Steve.
------------------------------
From: Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 12:59:06 GMT
Subject: Re: WAD Tricks
Evil Genius wrote:
>
> I have heard about several WAD "tricks" you can do, like transparent doors
> and invisible stairs. How are these done, and are there any more such
> "tricks"?
>
I haven't had time to examine the transparent doors trick yet - sounds
impossible though. Unless the doors are _totally_ transparent, in which
case it's the same as the invisible stairs.
Here's how the stairs work. Simply (:)) fool the doom engine, so that the
object placement routines believe that the stair is a small sector within the
stair, and the drawing routines don't see the small sector. Then the stair
sector has the height and flats of the background, and the small sector
has the height you want the invisible step to be.
Take a look at UAC_DEAD for a "diagram" - This keyboard doesn't support
ASCII art. :) But basically the lines of small sector should have both
sidedefs pointing at the small sector. And that should do it.
Why does it work? Who knows? Where would I find such a man? Why am I asking
you? I guess it is because the above sets up an inconsistency between the
nodes and the blockmap, such that the in the nodes (object placement), the
small sector fills the stair, while in the blockmap (ray casting) the stair
is encountered first, then the ray casting ignores lines which don't point
to the stair sector. Damn. I hope this isn't documented elsewhere, or I've
just wasted some thinking.
I guess that a transparent door is possible with transparent textures on
the faces, too. This one's a bit harder to explain, though... Transparent
textures have to be on the middle, rather than upper or lower. So 'hang'
the texture (once the texture runs out vertically, the rest is left blank)
on the bottom of a door-like sector mounted higher in the wall, out of
sight. It should be possible to arrange 'doorstops' in the frame, I think.
Then put a totally transparent door just beyond the hanging texture, and
link both to the same trigger linedef for remote doors. Again, I hope this
hasn't been used before, otherwise there's more thinking down the tubes.
As for other tricks, well, I guess I just don't know. Comments, anyone?
Hope this helps,
Steve.
------------------------------
From: Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 13:04:47 GMT
Subject: Re: id-ea
Shriker wrote:
>
> Re: ID releasing additional Level-Paks
>
> Actually, I just read Strategy Plus magazine a few days ago, and there IS a
> blurb that ID *is* releasing a Level-Pak for DOOM and a screen saver.
> (Strategy +, March/95)
>
Yeah, in some mag in the UK here I saw a photo of Jay next to a sign with
"iD: the add-on levels" printed up nicely.
> "DOOM II Screen Saver and DOOM II Bonus Levels: for those of you who just
> can't get enough of that ornery four letter craze, id plans on releasing a
> DOOM screensaver and additional levels for DOOM II, designed by some of the
> world's foremost freelance DOOMscapers."
>
> Hmmmmm...who are these "world's foremost freelance DOOMscapers" ?
> Anyone have any additional information on this, or are some of you under a
> "contractual gag-order" ? <G>
>
Just get the list members list and cross-reference those who _don't_
respond! Seriously, though, why wasn't I asked? Possibly these so-called
experts aren't all they're cracked up to be... :) :)
Just to drag the topic down even further, I hope they're not going to use
DEU 5.3 for the project...
Steve.
------------------------------
From: fenske@rocke.electro.swri.edu (Robert Fenske Jr)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 08:06:37 CST
Subject: Re: DOOM II Standalone Nodebuilder?
>Can someone direct me to a decent standalone BSP node builder which
>handles DOOM II WADs?
Get my WARM11.ZIP from ftp.cdrom.com. It's probably still in
the newstuff directory. It'll handle DOOM I, II, and HERETIC WADs.
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
From: David Damerell <djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 14:15:39 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: id-ea
On Sun, 19 Feb 1995 TWM2029@aol.com wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 1995 TWM2029@aol.com wrote:
> >> I would be very interested in such a project. I am currently working on
> just
> >> such a project. If you need some good levels or input please mail me.
> > Are your levels in a cohesive "theme"? have you added new gfx? >sounds?
> Yes, they are in a cohesive theme (A very well though out idea I might add)
> New Gfx/sounds/music/text/and Gameplay.....I hope this to be the on of the
> best remakes of doom ever. This patch will change doom about 80%!!
Perhaps you could make the current state publicly available - if your
project is open to input from all doom-editing it will turn out better, I
think.
David Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djsd100@hermes.cam.ac.uk Trinity, Cambridge
WOODHAL2.WAD ftpable. CUWoCS President. METLMAZE.WAD sometime soonish.
|___| Loneliness pours over you: Emptiness can pull you through. |___|
| | | Your mother's eyes, from your eyes, cry to me... Queen, '39. | | |
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 10:31:47 EST
Subject: Re: id-ea
Steve McCrea <sm@eng.cam.ac.uk> ,in message <199502191304.19291@club.eng.cam.ac
.uk>, wrote:
> Just to drag the topic down even further, I hope they're not going to use
> DEU 5.3 for the project...
*Slap*drop-kick*
All those who rag on an editor must offer up a software product of their
own creation for criticism. Then they'll know what it can feel like.
------------------------------
From: l-sieben@MEMPHIS.EDU (ulasieben)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 10:55:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: id-ea
>> Hi You all,
>> I'd like to propose the idea of a Doom-editing list IWAD, ive a bunch
>> of levels that work best with human style enemies, based on the idea of a
>> small town with random(ish) insertions of enemies.
>> If a bunch of us got together and pooled our skills we could build a
>> CLASSIC!
>> 32 new levels.
>> 20 new enemies (make the beasts thinner and faster and smarter?)
>> all new graphics
>> a new strategic/tactical theme
>> Do i hear a seconder, im willing to take the work to edit this, and be
>> the group coordinator.
>> -billy
>>
>
>I'm in!
>
>------------------< Ian Springer (Rutgers College '98) >---------------------
> ips@eden.rutgers.edu (general) ips@remus.rutgers.edu (computer science)
> ips@usacs.rutgers.edu (USACS) ips@gandalf.rutgers.edu (honors program)
>---------------------< http://remus.rutgers.edu/~ips >-----------------------
>
It's nice to see such a nice response. Well, someone needs to get
together all the
names and addresses of people wanting to do the project, and what they will
do. For
example, I'll do levels, maybe someone else can draw/scan grafix, etc...
Those involved
also need to elect a coordinator for the project, to provide lead
leadership, etc...
We also need a forum appropriate for discussion of this project:
doom-editing really
isn't. Perhaps a new listserv? Dunno. Anyway, hope we can get this project
rolling!
-- Evil Genius (Jimmy Sieben)
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #168
**********************************
